Loot scaling... Helping casual players...?

Not enough... nearly every time is enough enough for me. Prices have dropped considerably (see earlier comparison posts) which have benefited me quite nicely. They should be stabilizing by now... it's been long enough for things to do so. As for casual gamers... casual gamers weren't the major whites farmers. Casual gamers played, got whites as a result, and sold them. This remains true now. Anyone building a 55 to go farming is either hardcore or a bot, or both. Soloists were "nerfed", not the casual gamer.

Why scrap loot-scaling? All that helps is the bots, gold sellers and soloists and will screw up the economy with a massive influx of gold making it harder for the casual gamer to get by. There's ample gold to be had through normal party play, and if you want to see a nicer increase in gold, go Hard Mode with your party!

I'm quite a casual player (although hardcore in some areas, e.g AB and FFF) I haven't really noticed my gold going up or down drastically. I'm not rich by any means across 8 characters I have 3 sets of 15k armours and about 150k In storage (waiting for minipets to get cheaper before I start collecting them )

I still get gold drop, whites and blues. I save all the collectors items I get (you never know what weapon X hero might need someday) and so outfitting heroes is rather cost free.

Admitidly my main character uses gold perfect weapons rather than green (but I got those long before loot scaling) but greens are very cheap now - sure you might not get the cookie cutter perfect uber green, but you can get a cheap req 9 perfect weapon/offhand on any profession.

Honestly I really don't see loot scaling as a bad thing, I don't play any differently

Contradict yourself much? Or do you usually spend 5 minutes farming, then spend the rest of the time buying ID kits? And if playing in a team of 8 is the same as solo farming, why don't you just solo farm, it's that same thing. "Killing monsters"

[QUOTE]hardcore to the hilt reet

you have stated that you have completed all the missions until you are sick of them but refuse to try HM.

then bitch that in NM you cant get anything

and keys drop for free to open those chests

right you want the highest level keys for free hoping to get that multi million item in 100 chest runs

the casual player with a few hours a week is playing through the game the first maybe second time not wanting to 15 K his 15 th character reet

you are not casual no matter your self description

a casual player has not gone thrugh the game with so many characters they are bored sick with playing the game which you have said

Ok, so in your world, anyone farming anything whenever is a hardcore farmer? I guess you're the only person playing Guild Wars who's 'casual' then. Heck even getting collector stuff requires farming, so don't tell me that whenever you kill stuff for a certain item, you're a hardcore farmer.

I already did HM. Some stuff there is just too difficult to do, so I don't do it anymore. For the rest, HM is just a pain to play in. Drops still suck, monsters run away with the heroes chasing them like it's some sort of circus act, and for the rest, it's the same as normal mode.

I tried HM, I tried farming in there, and the drops are just as bad as the drops in NM.


Never saw a key drop for me in the last... 6 months? So if you want to buy a car, you just wait till you win one? Keys practically never drop, if chest running is a hobby, you don't just wait till you get a key drop, which may NEVER DROP AT ALL, since it's all up to luck.

Once again, I don't want a multi million item. Selling it would be impossible, anyway. I'm not chest running for drops, I'm chest running for fun and for titles. I don't recall telling I want highest level keys either? In the past, I even did alot of chest running in the Maguuma Jungle.

Lol, you think casual players don't want cool stuff, too? There is no 'the casual player'. Everyone is different, plays different ways and wants different things.

When you play Guild Wars for the first day, you already get tempted by the cool armors Kings and Warmasters in Ascalon wear. If there is any 'right way' to play Guild Wars, it would be to explore and do anything that's out there, and not just do the storyline alone.

Heck A-Net even wants this, saying we would be able to buy MORE cause of the lootscaling (Which is a lie, cause lootscaling drove prices UP).

Well I have wishes and an own free will, so I'm not a casual player in your eyes. However, in your eyes, nobody is a casual player, so yeah...

Once again, stop saying how casual players play. Not all casual players are as boring and mindless as you say they are. Some casual players actually enjoy ALL parts of the game, instead just the storyline. These casual players have been screwed once again. I know alot of casual players who've been playing from the beginning who have beaten the game over a 30 times now.

There might be players who just do the storyline, and then move on to another game, but most of the players actually enjoy other stuff in the game.

Once again, the vision of the casual player only doing missions and quests is wrong, cause even poor people have to farm for their collectible items for the armor/weapons, and if A-net wants us to do the storyline only, they wouldn't have made all the other stuff in the game.



How exactly am I condradicting myself? I used to do a quick troll run, then help Guildies, buy some keys and do chest runs, make a new character, buy cap sigs and capture some skills, do UW or FoW, try out new builds, do missions/quests, work on titles, you name it.

I never stated that playing in a team of 8 is the same as solo-farming. Or even farming, for that matter. I said that it's the same grind, which is true.
Note that Grind and Farm are 2 different things. Grind is needed in the game. Grinding for SS/LB points, grinding for faction in L/K area's etc. Farming, however, is optional.

However, the whole storyline is 1 big grind, since all you gotta do is kill monsters. Farming is a grind to, cause all you do is kill monsters, too. What I wanted to say with that is, that there is no 'not playing the game' when killing monsters, cause all you do in the game is kill monsters.

Hey Reetkever, is it just me or are they going out of their way to NOT talk to you about....loot farming? All they do is attack you ad hominem.

Wanna talk about loot scaling?

It hasnt affected me as much as you, but then again I am, have been, and presumably always will be poor in this game. I hate farming.

The loot from just playing the game has gone down for me because of the smaller quantity of vendor trash. The prices on items have decreased as well at the traders, but the prices of the fixed cost things are still....fixed? I'm at the point where I have more skill points to spend, and skills to buy, than gold to finance it. I'm not lucky with drops and have not seen one (1) skill tome from my few ventures in HM.

The preorder for EOTN has given me (I think) nice hero weapons, so I have been doing a massive swap.

So for me, it has been a net negative. I am not buying Sup Vigs, or 15Ks. I just (still) want base runes for my heroes and skills, etc.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Theres no talking about loot scaling. He says its impossible to make gold. People say they can make gold and tell him how. He says he can't make gold so loot scaling should go. People say it has lowered prices to an affordable range. He says that has nothing to do with loot scaling so it should go. People explain how loot scaling has made prices drop. He says that has nothing to do with loot scaling so it should go. There is no debate, just him stating his twisted, incorrect "facts". You CAN make gold now. Loot Scaling DID help drop prices. His continuous remarks about how it is impossible to make gold and loot scaling had no effect on anything kind of makes me wonder if he might be slightly retarded.

And yes, before you jump on this, I am trolling. So there goes your reply reet.

Well it's probably because we all know that I'm right when it comes to the loot scaling. It DID drive prices up. Ecto price hasn't been so high for a long time.

Also, everyone knows that farming a certain item makes it's price go down. Hence the Exemption List.

Well farming sucks yeah... That's why you have to turn it to something else ^^ I usually did races with Guildies, to test who could kill Griffons faster, or who had the best loot and stuff like that I never won, though

Yeah Hard Mode drops seem to suck for me, too. Once in a while, I get a purple item, or a gold item. They're usually Staves with req 12/13 and horrible stats, though.

Bonus weapons are great If only I could make Axes, Scythes and Shields using that...

Hmmm skills are a problem, but runes can be farmed, I think. Also, doing the LB/SS point run, sometimes a gold rune drops, so if you're going for titles, you might get lucky

I wouldn't hope on a sup vigor, though. Never saw one dropping myself, I think... :S



Anwser: I tried their ways, and it doesn't work for me.

I wonder where these people were when the Loot Scaling was implented at first. When the exemption list wasn't there yet, the prices for everything were Sky-high. And if you think about it, it's just pure logic. Also, if these people say that 100K + ecto's is affordable, I think THEY are the hardcore and rich farmers here, trying to defend the thing that keeps them rich, and the poor people poor.

No, YOU can make gold now, I can NOT. I am not a hardcore farmer who spends all his time farming. From what I've seen, most of the people telling me how to make money tell me to farm. No offense, I actually tried their farm runs, but they just didn't work out for me.

Dude, when Exemption List wasn't in the game, prices at traders went up. So Loot Scaling didn't really help at all. Exemption List helped drop prices, NOT the Loot Scaling. Actually, this is just pure logic. Less items in a market--> Increased rarity --> Increased value.

Once again, please don't post anything at all, if this is the case. Is it that hard to stop yourself from insulting other players, when it is entirely uncalled for? I don't have anything against the anti-farmers, I enjoy discussing things with them, and I appreciate their advices. I also understand if I may sound whine-y, but if you post here just to insult me, just don't post at all.

They do make gold. As much as pre-loot scaling? No. Loot scaling was MEANT to reduce the amount of gold that solo farmers were making, and it did that exceptionally well.

Ok, I think you are confused. The exemption list does make the price go down because it puts more of them in the market, so the value goes down. Loot scaling puts less gold in the market, so the value of gold goes up. That means that the stupid little quests that give 200 gold are giving you more than they were before because some things are cheaper. The value of gold going up has nothing to do with exemption lists. Exemption lists made the value of items go down. Loot scaling made the value of gold go up.

I'm not a hardcore farmer either. Since loot scaling, I have maybe farmed 2-3 hours tops. Since loot scaling, I have went from 10k in storage, to 125k in storage + 2 sets of 15k. WITHOUT farming. Same as the majority of people on here, and people I know in game. My friend went from 0 gold to 200k in a week from just killing outside of Bergen Hot Springs for 2-3 hours a day. I understand that you think it makes you no gold. Compared to what farming used to do, yes it makes a whole lot less. You making out that you are totally cursed and never get a drop is just a lie. It is random. I'll do 2-3 runs and not get a gold. Then I'll get 3-4 golds from one group. Saying you consistently get no gold from it is just an exaggeration. Also, just playing the game makes gold. Buy normal ID kits, not the expensive ones. Pick up ALL items, don't leave whites laying around. ID EVERYTHING that you can. Even whites. Buying keys is a gold sink, 99% of the time you end up losing gold.

Going through a LB/SS run in the desolation takes about 20-30 minutes. I can get 1-2k rarely even close to 3k just from picking up all of my drops and IDing them. You could consider this "farming", but I don't consider clearing a place out with 7 guildies farming. Go to FoW, can usually get around 5-6k on a good trip there which takes about 1-2 maybe 3 hours. It's not hard to get gold, playing in any level 20+ area will get you decent income.

Using that logic.
Less Gold in a market -> Increased value.
More Items in a market -> Decreased value.
Loot scaling along with exemption lists have caused the price to fall.

Well, only of the casual farmers. Hardcore farmers can still farm their titan gems and ecto's, and only get richer. This is the entire problem with loot scaling. There is no steady and reliable way of making cash now. Your drops are now completely random.

This is the same what I said. The EXEMPTION LIST is the cause for the price lowering, not the Loot Scaling.

But unfortunately, most things have fixed prices, so for these things, it doesn't matter one bit how much gold is worth. It only matters for stuff that people sell, like rare weapons. And did it work well for that? NO. Weapons are STILL being sold for ridiculous prices. Why? Because gold weapons are STILL hard to get. People want to be rewarded properly for the time they spent getting the sold item. Getting a req 8 Elemental Sword is still next to impossible, so the price stays high.

This is what I said all along, yet you said: "Loot Scaling DID help drop prices."

I don't think it, I know it. I did Bergen Hot Springs Undead runs myself, with the same build used for Corsairs. Clearing the entire area from Bergen to Toa (skipping some monsters which I couldn't kill cause of clerics) netted me 1K and some minor gold in total. That run costed me about 2 hours, I guess.

I never said I am never getting drops, I ususally get 3 to 4 drops doing a mission. Of course, it depends on the size and amount of monsters, but the amount of drops doesn't vary alot. I think it is a lie to say that suddenly drop rate for everything increased, and you get rich from doing the storylines.

If you mean gold as in cash, then it's true. If I compare time invested and drops, I get barely no gold. If you mean gold as in Gold Drops, then it's true, too. I usually don't see any gold items drop at all, except the usual Scroll of Slayer's Insight or something, that drops once in a while.
Besides, gold items suck. 99% of the time they are worthless and end up at the merch, just like the other white drops.

Almost everything in the game is a gold sink, does this mean we shouldn't be able to buy them?

We do FoW every now and then, and can't see what's so special about it. It drops the same as any other high end place, with the exeptions of the rare drops. I did once get a perfect Shadow Sword here, which ended up to the merch because I was unable to sell, and my heroes don't use swords.

I do 5-man LB/SS runs, and barely get a drop there. Only saw 1 gold drop for me since I did it, and that's it. For the rest, it nets me about 800 gold. Rarely, I get a Monsterous Claw, but I keep these in storage, so they don't really count towards the drops.

Less gold in a market is always bad, when most things in the game have fixed prices. Sure, the gold is worth more, but if the prices don't drop accordingly, there's no use.

Same is with items. The gold may be worth more, but when players continue to sell for ridiculous prices, it doesn't work at all. As it is now, I am way better off without loot scaling. Sure, gold is worth less, but who cares? trader prices stay low, fixed prices are more affordable, and rare weapons... They are outof reach with or without loot scaling, so it doesn't matter. However, without loot scaling, it is possible to invest time in farming, and get the gold yourself, so it is actually easier to buy that rare weapon.

sorry for making all of you take a step back in this heated 9-page discussion, but

what exactly is loot scaling?

i read a few descriptions, all i took out of it was that drop rates are higher with more people in the party. why not fill your party with henchies then flag them by the entrance/ out of range of monsters?

also what does removing the greens and golds and stuff from the list exactly mean? forgive me my stupidity, but its late and i dont have time to think it out.



p.s. if anyone here uses i.d. kits on whites, well i wont comment there

Bergen is a steady income, but you say that gets you nothing. "Hardcore" farmers farming ectos? Come on, farming ectos is easy, and is barely worth it anymore. Farming Titan Gems is harder than mindlessly farming trolls. They shouldn't get more of a profit?

People have less gold, therefore sellers have to sell for less gold or they won't sell it. If you go into a city where everyone has 50 million dollars, will selling a car for 500k be that difficult? Probably not. If you take that car to a place where people have about 250k, will you sell that car? Hell no.

Fixed prices are hardly arguable. 1k Armor is easy to get, putting a skill bar together is cheap. That is all you NEED to buy. Making 15k armor harder to get is not a bad thing. Having "Elite" armor that is easy to get is stupid. Some weapons are still being sold for stupid prices, true. A lot of weapons are cheaper now, a lot of mods are cheaper now.

Increasing the value of gold lowers the cost of items in gold. Just like the examples I gave you with ectos earlier.
Ectos worth 5k -> Item Worth 100k+20e
Ectos worth 10k -> Item Worth 100k+10e
It works the same with gold. If gold is worth more, the prices will be lower.

If it took you 2 hours to do that run...wow. It takes about 10-15 minutes.

Just from doing the nightfall storyline, my characters usually end up with around 20k. Which for your 600 gold a day, just doing the nightfall storyline gets more gold than you do in a month.

Gold items sell for 300-400 gold, which is almost your daily income.

If you want to use the gold sinks in the game, don't expect to be rich? Buying keys out the ass when you know that you will lose gold, then complaining that you don't have gold? Come on.

You usually fill your inventory up with items 2-3 times. Lets just say 30 items. Average sell price lets assume 65. Thats almost 2k in gold. Then you have all of the collectible drops that sell for quite a bit. Most of the time, you should at least get 1-2 shards, which is another couple thousand gold.

I don't know what you were doing wrong. I was with 7 guildies and we were all averaging 1-2k a run, so the drops couldn't have been lopsided, or getting lucky. So it nets you 800 gold, and it takes 20-30 minutes. How long do you play a day?

1k armor, a few different builds, an ID kit and a salvage kit are easy to afford. The other "fixed" price things you are talking about must be the 15k armor. It's not called "Elite" armor because it is easily accessible. It is supposed to be rare, and an achievement. Farming for 2 hours and buying a set of 15k is not an achievement.

You farming for 5 minutes a day, you will never get any of the stupidly expensive items anyway. However. You can buy 2 Sup Vigors now for the price of 1, a few months ago. Mods for weapons are cheap, so you can make your collector item godly. Everyone else can still make a profit from playing the game, you are one of the rare people who doesn't. I don't know if you are spending WAY more than your means, if you are consistently playing on the noob islands, you are lying about how much gold you are making, or if your account is just totally cursed.

I think you are exaggerating everything to hell and back. Three items per mission? Making 600 gold in two hours? Just curious, if you are gaining 600 gold a day, yet you have lost 95k since loot scaling came out. WHAT are you spending all of your gold on? What needed stuff cost you that much? No way you were using 10 ID kits and 5 Salvage kits in 2 hours. You could buy 10 sets of 1k armor, one for each profession, and still not be losing cash that badly. Or is all of this "needed" stuff 15k armor and keys? Are you buying a new build every time you play? Stop exaggerating, and stop over spending on "needed" things.

Instead of a solo person getting 8x as much as one person in a normal team, they only get about 2x as much.

As regards your p.s. IDing white items usually adds between 5-50 gold to their sell value. Average 15 increased value, times 25 from an ID kit, and you get 375 gold, which is more than you spent on the ID kit, meaning you come out ahead. It only takes seconds to do.

excuse my ineptness at quotes but

wow, learned something new even during the summer

edit:

cant quote in an edit q.q but even if one person only gets 2x drops why not bring some heroes because everything is still shared with you and flag them out of the way

Just for that chance that a gold WILL drop and no one wants to lose it to a hero/henchmen.
The whole "What if I DIDN'T bring heroes, I bet I lost like 5 golds!!!!!1"
"Damn heroes!!!"
***************
I'm sure it's been stated .. but ...c'mon ... 9pages...

Instead of 1/8th drops, make it 1/4th or 1/5th.
People still farm in the smallest team possible to increase their chances, so it wouldn't hurt anything.

*
They also REALLY need to fix that Hard Mode bullshit that you can go open a Hard Mode Locked Chest and come out with a freakin white non-elite tome or purple weapon.

What's this? You're in the Realm of Torment.
Oh don't worry .. You can and will receive purples and white non-elite tomes from Locked Chests in Hard Mode!!...

I'm calling BS on a few of the anti reet posts going here:

• BHS to TOA in 10 minutes BS - BHS farming gets 2-3k per hour tops.
• Keys shouldn't be bought - They are the only reliable in-game source for mods. If you wait for them to drop from monsters you'll be waiting forever.
• Skills are affordable - Building a passable skill library costs a fortune, geting just 75 primary and 20 seconday skills costs over 255k (75+9*20) per character, so over an account thats 2.5 million gold. Even if you get 1/3 of them from hero points/skill points, you're still out of pocket 1.8 mill in skill points.
• Farming makes you hardcore - If you wanted to afford the gold sinks in the game, you were forced to farm. Farming with 8 people is still farming.
• Playing the game normally gives you enough gold - As a simple example I spent just over 1 hour vanquishing vulture drifts last night and gained 1.2k in the process. In order to do the vanquish I needed to spend 2k on skills and 1.5k for a lockpick.

• He said he was getting 1k in 2 hours, and you call bullshit on being 5 minutes off?
• If you buy keys, knowing you will lose gold, don't expect to have gold afterwards.
• Buying a skillset or two is cheap. You can get skills for free from hero trainers, you can get skills for free from quests in Prophecies. 8 skills make a skill bar, you don't "need" 75.
• Farming doesn't make you hardcore, but if you want hardcore cash from it, then you have to farm hardcore.
• You didn't have to buy the skills, or the lockpick.

People are confusing what they "want" with what they "need". Getting by in the game, max armor, max weapon, a few skillsets, is easily affordable. Playing the game normally gets gold. If you "want" 15k armor, but you insist on buying keys every time you leave town, you must not want that 15k armor too bad. It is easy to save up gold, but if you insist on spending it, then that is your fault.

See, this is what I'm talking about. Everyone's attacking Reetkever and avoiding what loot scaling is and has done. I got tired of reading the back and forth arguments. Valid points are lost in this mess and this is yet another person that loot scaling hasn't helped. Perhaps this wasn't a good thread to post in but I'm not wasting time searching for the other loot scaling one.

I'm not sure what your point is in quoting me Lovitar, then again I might've lost my train of thought during posting. I was thinking about how everyone says play normally through the game without farming and you'll have enough for whatever you need. Vanity items are never in the equation. If you need an answer to your questions I'd tell you to play another game it looks like you've mastered it all, congrats.

I played for about 3 hours yesterday. I was doing mission/quest chains through Kourna with my new monk, in a full team, getting her to level 20. I went from rescuing Koss to the Kodonur Crossroads mission. I earned about 6k (no lucky drops, not even a purple, although I am including the two free keyless chests in Kourna, where I got two merchable gold items and a combined 3k gold) plus materials (which I save).

I just want to make a point that I don't know any game out there where I can play for three hours and make almost enough for an entire max armor outfit, and all by just playing the game. I didn't even do side quests, or waste time killing more monsters than I needed to, just straight mission/quest chain to go further through the game. Since I already had enough to get max armor by level 17 when I hit Kaineng (factions monk), I used my money to buy a bunch of capture signets.

I have to say again, newbies can do just fine. This monk has yet to need anything from my storage. I gave her a Scar Eater that I had laying around, though she would be fine with the hourglass staff. Other than that green, I have not needed anything from my storage, and in fact, the money in my storage has grown since I've been playing her. I'm making more money than I need with a new character, and I have done nothing but standard missions and quests in full parties. Go figure.

Well I hope that Nightfall is better than Prophecies. I just finished props, taking a monk thru doing mostly the main missions and quests. I didn't spend any "unnecessary" gold just the basics for skills. Used mostly the same armor till Droknar's Forge where I went to buy max armor. I played very casually (around 2 hours a day at most) and this took me about a month. I merched and ID every item i got (white included) and had 18k. Since I didn't have most of the crafting materials I needed for my armor I had to buy them. Total price for the armor was 16k.

Now I could see how if I just wanted to "get by" like some say that I did accomplish that. BUT how many people want to completely finish the game (I did) and just barely "get by"?

All I can say is that I hope that Nightfall is better. Hopefully since I now have my armor (basic max) paid for and a good skill set obtained that maybe I can get a couple "vanity" items in the 2nd game instead of the 1st.

I don't know if this is attributed to loot scaling or what. All I can say is this is the stingyist game I have ever played.

In Nightfall you get easily 20k+ and a handful of gold items for free by just opening unlocked chests.

Edit: Also look at it this way, now when you go through Nightfall or Factions, ALL of the gold you get is in the positive. You already have your armor, probably have weapons, probably have a decent skill bar if you finished Prophecies. So you are looking at probably 50-60k from doing them two campaigns, maybe more if you sell the end game items.

arcanemacabre, I think I recognize your posts. Are you starting new characters every time? Are you running 2 builds or something like Omniclasm is or wants everyone to do? I'm really curious because I think you posted something similar in another thread.

I don't remember ever having it that easy without hitting storage. There was no way I could craft armor without needing materials from storage, with insignias and runes it takes longer. I'll counter argue in advance if you say insignias and runes are optional. Why bother getting max armor if you're not maxing out your potential then? Stick with the free skills. Stick with newbie armor, that way it's all profit from the start. Genius!

Common materials are not part of the excemption list and unless they've started dropping way more frequently I don't remember having enough of any material before reaching mainland. Some armors are cheap to craft some aren't.

Free chest gave you half of your gain, which every other person was describing how they got by if not farming.

I did mention the start of my monk in another thread (forget where), and her progression to Kaineng, where I was able to afford max armor. Like I said in that thread, I'm not experimenting with her, per se, I just decided to make a new monk, and never found the need to tap into my storage for anything. Thought it was interesting and it was within the topic, so I posted it.

Since then, I haven't had to buy anything for her except for skills (which are still below 1k for me since I got many using hero skill points) and cap sigs. Because of that, I have watched my storage money actually increase from playing my new monk alone. I am now at least 4k richer than I was when I started her. The only thing I'm currently missing, which I would need to buy when I feel the need, is runes/insignias for my heroes. That will be somewhat pricey.

You won't make money if you spend it all the time. Get what you need when you can afford it. When I bought my armor, I had the runes from my previous armor (which I had bought for my lowbie armor on the starter island). I didn't get the insignias till later, when I could afford them. You need insignias for the same reasons you need max armor and max weapons, as you say, maxing out your potential. But you do not need to have your potential maxxed nonstop. Only max what you can when you can.

The point is you still can. You can get what you need. Easily, even if it takes an extra hour or two of playing missions and quests with your buddies. If you're wondering whether my monk has been effective without Survivor insignias for a couple of quests, well she now has the first tier of the Survivor title, and still ticking!

I always expert salvage highly salvageable items, and I often get common materials in multiples of 30-40. Factions is also notorious for having lots of material drops. Any materials I am missing, which mostly means rare materials, I try to find the outfit that takes the cheapest rare material (like linen or steel), despite what the armor looks like, just so I can stay on top of the game with max armor cheaply. The headpiece was ink and parchment, which are cheap to craft. I had plenty of materials when I reached the mainland, and plenty of extra cash to afford what I didn't have.

The free chests are awesome and really help out any newbie player or character. They don't favor those who farm and attempt to suck the loot dry, but do favor those who like to explore, and like to find a nice surprise.

If someone like me that has been 55ing since the protective bond days gets 2-3k per hour, I'm ok accepting that someone new to it would get 1/4 that.

Again, if you'd kindly point me to the npc that sells weapon/offhand upgrades, you'd have a point, until then keys are a necessity of the casual player because the time it takes to trade is more than they have available.

Of course you do! Do you kill the same 8 monsters over and over? Why would you use the same 8 skills over and over? Do you also think golfers should only use a 7 iron, how about gridiron players with only on play in thier book? Guildwars is skills! if you're still using the same 8 skills you've started with, you're not playing GW!

Noone wants hardcore cash, people want to be able to spend 5-10 minutes to support 1 hour of normal gameplay. As it stands now we have to farm for an hour in order to afford to play for an hour.

If you want to play gw, you have to have skills to play with. If you want to kill things at an appropriate dificulty level, you need to have the appropriate equipment to kill them with. Again, if you'd point me at the npc that gives me free skills to play with or weapon upgrades to kill the bad guys with, you might have a point.

My list doesn't contain anything except the basic GW eqipment - skills and collector/crafter weapons. These are needs not wants.

15k is a want. Basic equipment and skills are needs.

Lootscaling isn't for casual players, whatever they tell you it's bogus.

Loot scaling is intended to rate limit the acquisition of gold by farmers, both professional and amateur. In other words, loot scaling is a way to curb the flow of gold into the economy while still allowing MMO addicted solo farmers to spend all day grinding (the more time you spend playing GW the more time + emotional investment you have in the game, and the less likely you are to quit - this is the MMO secret sauce, and gw now has it). As long as you continue to play you're likely to buy whatever addons ANet produces, this is why you can solo farm with a rate limit, grind for vanq, grind for cartographer, grind for ... etc. They keep you playing, and playing keeps you buying. It's a good business plan, but not so much fun for players.

What loot scale really did was raise the value of gold relative to items, not make things magically cheap. The funny thing is that this actually encourages people to buy gold, lol.

You missed out one thing: Nightfall COSTS way more, because of all the heroes you need to equip.

My Warrior now has 15 heroes. To equip them with good max damage weapons costs ALOT of cash, or you have to be willing to spend thousands of hours farming for the collectible items the collectors want.

It's a good think I bought the special GW:EN bonus thingy, so on 1 account, all caster heroes are now done.

Then there are 20 heroes who are not caster or ranger, and most of them need 2 weapons (Axe and Shield).

On my other account, I still have 60 heroes to work with, too. The amount of collectible drops you need for that is beyond imagination. Drops from the hidden chests are usually Offhands, which usually suck, and besides - my treasures have run dry a long time ago. They don't seem to reset after 3 times. And after 2 times, they only drop purple + 400 gold most of the time.

If you go to the weapon crafter, you find out that every weapon costs 1K + Materials. This is the cheapest max dmg weapon you'll find in Elona, since all drops aren't max dmg - even in hard mode. Of the 60 heroes, some need 2 weapons, a primairy weapon and a shield, so that adds up, too. Ohh, and since most accounts have 8 characters instead of 4, they have 120 heroes to equip.

Even when max dmg weapons are 500 gold, and you only buy 1 weapon per hero, you'll end up losing 60K.

Oh and on a side note: The skillbar you had in Prophecies is most likely useless in the Realm of Torment.

Reet, if you're trying to kit heroes out on every single character on two accounts then you deserve to spend huge gobs of cash. No one in their right mind is going to expect to have everything on every hero on 16 characters, that's utterly pointless.

Let me remind you that you can a: put crap in storage to move between characters and b: successfully salvage runes off of hero armor 100% of the time.

That should help with your self-inflicted problem :P

Ehm, not really, cause my storage is empty :P

And I don't even use runes on heroes, cause my own characters aren't even fully equipped with runes. Well, I'm taking it easy with heroes atm, but they do have to be equipped with max dmg stuff, and the monks DO need extra energy, cause in high-end area's, they're really burning through their current energy supply.

And my 2 accounts are only halve, since I share both of them with my brother, so I don't have to equip all 240 heroes.

sounds like you would have had trouble with money anyways evern without the loot nerfing.

i generally don't have much issues with money since nightfall came out. additionally, since i have prophecies, i like to use max collector armor until i need something better (which is almost generally never). although i find it stupid that they don't make the max collector armor inscribable whereas non-max collector armor is inscribable.

ho hum...does it really take that much to outfit heroes? Can it be storage draining? I honestly just equip my heroes with the best loot/greens I get.
My koss is using a kanaxai's axe and an exalted aegis, both ridiculously cheap.
My sousuke uses a rago's staff, relatively cheap staff.
Olias uses a ghials, very very cheap.
and MoW uses stonereaper, cheapest of them all.
And if Tahl needs a weapon, she can have a Kephket's Refuge.

And if you can't afford to equip them with greens...white weapons suffice too. that q10 white 6-28 axe fits the bill.

And drops from the collector chests are pretty nice. I got an Azure recurve bow and an adamantine falchion yesterday, both q9. The free plat didn't hurt my spirits either.

Heroes are perfectly happy using the first max damage weapon you find, white, blue, gold, purple, or green. They don't need many insignias. One minor/major rune whichever is cheaper. Yes, you can finish Nightfall like that, I did back when I had no gold. Half my heroes still have non-max weapons. Half my characters still don't even have all the heroes.

-3 max damage whites -> Free
-3 minor/major runes for 100 -> 300
-3 white offhands/shields -> Free

As for the build you run in Prophecies not working, that is false. My monk runs a build with all prophecies skills, except Dismiss Condition. My friends monk also runs a build with all Prophecies skills except Resurrection Chant. My Necromancer runs a build with all Prophecies skills. So saying that it won't work in Realm of Torment is false.

[QUOTE]that is no true at all.

i have opened them several times and never gotten anything but a gold item each time

not a single purple in the lot

has anyone got the same problem with me in NM underworld.

me and a friend cleared all the aatxe's and smites out, and i only mananged to complete 3 rows of my item bags, most of them were non-max blues and whites.

on a side not. i did get a scroll to UW. but that hardly makes up for what seems to by a uber nerfed underworld. whats the point vying for this place if all you get is loot that amounts to a gates-of-kryta run, heck, i've attained more purples from there with an odd gold.

if UW is so easy and anet just have to nerf the drops so that everyone doest get rich, then why not just make it harder instead of making the play experiance so unrewarding.

That is just a flawed game design. Items in the end game area sell for just as much as in mid game area. This is because weapons have a max, the weapons you find in Vabbi are just as strong as the weapons you find in Realm of Torment, or UW, and sell for just as much. They could double the drop rate in these places, but that would just fill your inventory very fast. 6 rows of slots filled isn't bad. What is that? 30-40 items from 50 monsters?

nop, i didnt manage to fill 6 rows.

what i managed was 3 rows.

3 rows!!!!!!

oh yeh. its a lot more than 50 i killed btw trust me. i'll count them up next time, but the amount of aatxe's, grasps, smites and colfires we killed, it doesnt feel like enough loot 3 rows.

I am quoting Omniclasm, not because of the validity of his posts, but to point out his flaws. This is not personal, and it really is aimed at the whole lot of the people who are unabashedly pro-lootscaling. They are cherry-picking their arguments, and trying to beat reetkever into submission through verbal bludeoning. But to his credit, he will not give up.

I'll cherry-pick your cherry-picking, and show it all to be wrong.

Note how he is showing that the prices of player-sold goods are expected to be elastic - that as money supply goes up and down, then the prices follow suit. He's good so far.

And this is where he jumps off the cliff.

Ectos worth 5k -> Item Worth 100k+20e, 1 skill = 1 plat, 1 rune = 500g
Ectos worth 10k -> Item Worth 100k+10e, 1 skill = 1 plat, 1 rune = 500g

Fixed cost items are not elastic. As general cash decreases, the ability of casual players to buy fixed cost items goes down.

If he wants to stay with the high-rollers and trade his ectos for irridescents, then good for him.

All they are doing is demonstrating that they have lost touch with reality - the percentage of people who buy irridescent anythings is miniscule. Well, miniscule and vocal beyond their numbers.

Stop trying to perpetuate the false belief that everyone is a day-trader in the "player-selling the super-item" high-roller economy.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

If you are only getting about 600 gold per HM clear, and only about 1 gold a week then you are playing less than 2 hours a day, or most of that time is spent chatting or PvPing. The loot scaling helps players who are, as was previously stated, doing missions, bonuses, and working on HM titles. This means if you go out solo farming for hours yes you will be disappointed. But if you are used to just playing the game, you will find more being dropped.

Now I am just getting back into the game, I only went through the 3 campaigns on normal mode so far, and just in that week it took to go through Proph, Factions, and NF I have gotten 1.5k armor, and ancient armor, and many skills for PvP.

I am also a firm believer that no casual player should have the elite items. Many will complain, but in every game there needs to be items that are available only to the hardcore that work for it (in Guild Wars this is obsidian armor, and those rare skin weapons). I would be unhappy if suddenly casual playing could bring about FoW armor and that status weapon.

What they have done is made the mods more frequent. So your 15^50 +30 HP 20/20 sundering Longsword is exactly as usable as Mr Uber's 15^50 +30 HP 20/20 sundering Crystalline, but he has played longer to earn that rare skin. Now if you are all for rewards for everyone, and think that he who plays 7 hours a day should have the same things as he who plays 2 hours a day, go play Runescape.

saw a guy who showed me a whole trade bar full of 250 ecto stacks.

made me cry.

[QUOTE]minor runes a long time ago started at 2.5K for the worst and were 5K to 10 K for popular ones..........people could still afford full group drops and get skills..........it just was not insta right now gratification

superior runes started at 20+ K and most were at least 40 K with the popular ones like fire/favor/marksmanship/etc 60 K to 75 K vigor and 100 K sup absorb.......PEOPLE STILL BOUGHT SKILLS JUST NOT A FEW BARS AT A TIME TO TRY OUT
the casual player going through the game their first time is not dreaming of ideal skill bars/ keys for chest runs/ 15k/ FOW/ festival tickets he is going from mission to mission getting a few skill points and getting a few new skills from the newest skill trainer with a few new skills he does not have yet