Jade Quarry: Give it a try, please.

Hey Folks,


I just came out of my second Jade Quarry match. It's actually pretty fun. And though my guild is Kurzick, I was playing on the luxon side because there are fewer players over there. In Fact, atm, there are about 20+ players in kurzick loading area, and only 4 in Luxon. Is that because there are more Kurzick players than luxon players?


Anyhoo, it would be nice to see more people there. It's really a good mission,

There seem to be more kurzic players than there are luxon players. As for the Jade Quarry, I do go and visit it a couple of times, but I haven't played it more than five times since I played it during the preview. I am happy I got time in for playing at the preview or I would have never been able to play it as much as I have.

Jade Quarry would be more popular if everyone could play Kurzick.

Seriously, though. It should be avoided at all costs until the exploit is fixed. However, like all bugs that favor Kurz side, don't expect it to be fixed any time soon. Hooray for faction bias.

Very fun but the kurzick exploit kind of ruins it- for both sides. Long waits for the Kurz and imbalance against the lux.

I managed to get in 3 or 4 times. The first two times to wall hug/map all area for carto title. Because it's so hard to get in here, usually you see half of the players mapping around.

after over a year I finally got a chance to play it last night. Still kind of last as how to be effective in it, but I followed my friend's lead and we had fun.

?

There are more Kurzicks than Luxons in JQ, unless you're meaning that everyone should 'play' like Kurzicks, then I see what you mean. j/k

btw, what's the exploit in JQ??

Several reasons for why there are usually more Kurzicks than Luxons
1 - Kurzicks are good at even playing fields
2 - JQ has a fixed time till the match ends, whereas in FA, the time (as well as the Kurzick's score) is mainly determined by the speed at which Luxons advance.
3 - FA is closer and most likely the first one to get to for players, and just don't bother going to JQ.

concerning your reasoning for more kurzicks:
1. no - the players playing the kurzick side at Aspy mostly suck and that is why you get the impression that they are better at even playing fields. the kurzick aspy players mostly don't understand what they are doing there so when they move to JQ with its simple rules they do better then at Aspy but kinda on the same level as the luxons. and then theres is the exploit which just means that out of two dumb sides - the one which uses the exploit has a better chance!
UNLESS of course you tried to say that "even playing field" means "dumb on both sides"!

3. Aspy is closer FOR kurzicks then JQ but JQ is MUCH closer then Aspy for the luxons. so your reasoning no. 3 is just wrong.

To this day, JQ is my favorite PvP(ish) map. I don't play JQ anymore because the cartographers ruined it for me. It's not fun when the teams are 50% cartographers who won't help for the critical start of the mission and then leave when they're done getting their .3%. No thanks, I won't be back.

Necrotic Traversal/Consume Corpse was actually allowed on both sides, I'm not sure why they removed it for the Luxons. It's not *that* big of an advantage if your team knows how to play. Refusing to play because of it reduces the likelyhood of it getting fixed. It's a waste of a skill slot anyway, since it's only useful those first few seconds of the match. The turtles/juggs getting stuck in base (both sides) is a bigger problem.

Yeah, the map itself is one of my favorites for PvP type play. They should open it up for cartographers to run around freely so they don't hurt any people who actually want to play matches there. Its hard enough to get in as is. You don't want to get in and get people running off to map things.

And what of PvP players?
Fort Aspenwood is popular because it's one of the best ever PvP maps in GW. It's fun, it's strategic, and overall quite amusing to play on both sides. Even with occasional turtle/warrior glitches, Luxon side is still favored in Fort Aspenwood, but the game is enjoyable on both sides.

JQ on the other hand.. let's see, an exploit, a terrain which just annoys me to hell when i play some builds, and overall i dunno, the game just wasn't interesting to me. Maybe i'll try it again, soon, but so far i just did not like it.

Im sorry but the idea of Siege and siege defense is far more interesting to the players, always has been, than escorting some turtles for whatever they are doing there. If i want to escort turtles, I can do that in Fort Aspenwood as well, plus many other things.


And just look at the exploit.. no matter how minor, it's annoying and repulsive. JQ is an example of a badly designed PvP map, just as Paragon is an example of badly designed profession.

Pro Tip: If you want to play in the Quarry, grab some friends, spam every major city you can get to quickly (Nicely, and not over the top) that you will be playing a game in the Jade Quarry and anybody who is interested should haul ass there. Make sure you get a good number on each side, let people map and explore it, and have fun.

If you want a "true" game, I'd set up a secret match between your guildmates or something and keep it under your hat so to speak.

I've never played Fort Aspenwood or Jade Quarry because I expect to get yelled at for never having done it before. Just like in DoA.

There are NPC's you can talk to in the waiting areas that tell you what you need to do. In FA on kurz side talk to Gunther. Its pretty simple and you wont get yelled at because most of the people there dont know what they are doing.

I played it yesterday a few times in English disctict. It was fairly easy to get in, but after a few instanced the players left and the endless waiting cycle resumed.

This thread should be renamed "Jade Quarry: Fix the bug, please."
I played 3 games of it last night on the luxon side (kurzick side had endless wait times), in all the games the necrotic transversal exploit was used by the kurzicks to own about half the map before the match had started.
We did what we could but only managed to get 4 before the kurzick's won it.

Still wonder why people don't play it?

Will try it this week...

According to who? Personally, I think that ABs are better designed maps than FA. ABs at least have potential for organized play if ANet ever allowed it, FA is only balanced because of the random nature and swarms of bad players playing it. FA by its nature is also almost impossible to balance correctly due to both sides having completely different set-ups and objectives.

When i first made this post, people weren't using the exploit (in the games i played anyways). But when I went back to play today, every single match some bright kurzick player would opt to take the easy way and attack the guards before the countdown finished. I eventually convinced one of them that it was unfair, but that will do little to stop the tide of abuse.

Please a-net, fix the bug where Kurzicks can attack the luxon guard post BEFORE the match starts. I ask this as a kurzick alligned player myself. It would be nice to know we beat them fair and square, rather than constantly abusing some bug. Not only that, if the Luxons are overly discouraged from playing than the map will once again fall into disuse. When we play fair, it's a close match, and that's good for everyone. When the Luxons can only manage to pull in two jade slabs - that's hardly worth their time faction wise, and they WILL stop playing.

- How are detonation and hostage maps balanced in Counter-Strike? Simple.

1. First thing to do is setting up playfield so that it's equally favorable for both sides. If Luxons can often completely overtake and intercept Kurzick jade carriers, then jade mines are on wrong spot. Fort Aspenwood matches are played on completely random group, so holding mines shouldn't need any kind of special strategy. Do guards react well to coming enemy assault? Is it feasible to even try to repair the gates or run amber in the first place?

2. Setting up reasonable time limit. Kurzicks can only win when their weapon is completed, which takes time. If timelimit is too long, playing for Kurzick side is very uninteresting. Just like on detonation maps if timelimit is 10 minutes, terrorists could just camp on their base and never even bother taking the bomb anywhere, making games boring for CT side. Further, because Fort Aspenwood matches don't have any kind of administration, it's imperative that the mission is designed with utmost balance and fair play in mind. Neglecting these issues will result it detrimental gameplay seen as leeching, AFKing and unwillingness to play. Jade Quarry is a perfect and glaring example of this, being underpopulated right from the release of Factions.

What I'm becoming increasingly worried about is that ANET doesn't seem to have any kind of quality assurance team. Seems to me that ANET thinks problem with FA and JQ is that these places are not rewarding enough, so they rack up faction gain and double weekends so that people would play them more.

1. True, but you're basing that argument on a specific handful of Kurzick players, ignoring the other Kurzick players that know how to play on that map. Furthermore, there is a higher difficulty in playing the Kurzick side than it would be on the Luxons. So it doesn't matter if some Kurzicks suck when playing FA, any Luxons who play on the Kurzick side would equally suck. No offense. I'm exaggerating when I say that Kurzicks are better at JQ, but I've played that map with every chance I get, on both sides, and I hardly lose.

3. That's based on the assumption that every human Luxon player starts in Cavalon... FA is and has always been the first stop for Luxons, while JQ being the second stop. The first few days of Faction's release made the biggest impact, because as soon as people settled in FA, then everyone wanted to go there. JQ's highest popularity was during the preview event, because the players skipped from the Market place, straight over to the major cities on both sides. Distance didn't become a problem then.

I just want more people to play JQ, it really is a fun map. ^^

Depends how you define better designed. AB's have potential for organized play? Uh, who cares when there is no organized play and it's random? And a *potential* for organized play doesn't make AB more fun (even though this is subjective of course). Look at HA. RA is 5x more interesting and fun than HA!

Im sorry, i played ABs. Im ok with people liking it. But the best strategy in AB has been ... run, kill NPCs, run, kill NPCs, keep running in circles like that whole match killing NPCs and a few players along the way... and after i win several matches like that i had enough of AB for a whole year.

Is that better designed map? Not according to me. Fort Aspenwood has 10x more strategy and tactics than AB, not to mention variety.

Im tired of this elitist attitude regarding FA. Does everyone need to be top GvG player in order to get some respect? Yeah, i don't like seeing horrible builds etc either, but the quality of players in FA (at least on Kurzick side where i mostly play) is better than in AB.

That's not an argument for impossibility of balance. I think the balance is just fine, perhaps AI bugs should be fixed, but the balance is OK.

That guy in the later post made a nice comparison with Counterstrike.

You have no idea what you're talking about! This is such a silly argument that i don't even feel like wasting time on it. You're saying that just because someone got somewhere first, he will dismiss the rest of game content!

According to your logic, no one would even RA, we would still be having our lvl8 characters in Ascalon Arena, and when they turn lvl11, we would start a new one.

Fort Aspenwood is played because it's a great map. Jade Quarry is NOT. And Jade Quarry (unlike glitches in FA) has a critical bug which gives a huge advantage for Kurzicks. Along with other issues, no, i dunnot wanna play JQ over FA, not at this point.

I tried again yesterday. At a certain time there were 8 Kurzicks, but still no Luxons. It's still a pain in the --- to get in. I did not have much time so I moved on to Aspenwood and Alliance Battle.

I have never tried it, which dis do you enter from ?

Jade Quarry is NOT the rest of the game content! And I did not say that just because a person goes to FA first, that they absolutely refuse (or are preventing) themselves from progressing through the rest of the game. I said, and I will make sure that you read my post CAREFULLY:

JQ had lots more people during the preview event because it was easier to get to than it is now. Why did you not quote me and try to argue me on that? Because it was TRUE! Same thing applies here. Both competitive missions have their benefits, but why waste time learning how to faction farm two areas, when the focus is only faction farming? It's really not difficult to get a match started in JQ, you just advertise on both sides of FA to go over to JQ, and you're guaranteed a match. It works when I do it, anyway.

You're using my logic incorrectly. And there are flaws in your comparisons. First off, you are not talking about JQ. You are also making the assumption that everyone who PvP's starts off in Ascalon Arena. Finally, hardly anyone goes to Ascalon Arena, and everyone goes to RA, which is in complete reversal to the logic (of mine) that you are trying to twist... it doesn't even reflect my main point about first arrival.

I probably just missed your point.

FA is a great map. JQ is a great map. FA is NOT played solely because it is a great map. At the beginning, the amount of glitches that FA and JQ had were equally bad, but because more people focused attention to FA (more people played that map, of course) then the glitches that were originally on that map had been fixed... well, at least that's what they say. Luxon Warriors can still get stuck, and the Gate Keepers still over extend from their bases.

Oh wait, we're overlooking FA's critical and exploitable glitches, right?

The critical bug in JQ occurred on both parties, and was lately fixed so that Luxons were no longer able to teleport out of their base.

A reminder. If you are going to respond to this, take a look at my original post on the first page, and have a look at two other points that I've made and see whether or not you have anything to say about them. I appreciate any feedback. ^^

Nonsense. That's why i didn't quite you on that. In preview event your time is limited and you just want to fight and fight fast. It shows absolutely nothing now, especially when with PvP character you can reach both areas equally fast.

That's another nonsense. More glitches fixed in FA? Oh yea, Turtles get much stuck less, and Luxon Warrior get stuck on a regular basis. Other NPCs still have problems.

Aside of AI stuff, NO GLITCHES WERE FIXED IN FA! Would you mind reminding me what glitch was there, because i don't remember any. On the other hand JQ had and STILL HAS a critical bug/exploit which enables Kurzick (and before both parties i think) a serious advantage. There is no such thing in Fort Aspenwood. The problem with Fort Aspenwood might be that Kurzicks r more difficult to play and get less faction than Luxons, but that encourages people to take challenge. Bugs and exploits dunnot.

And lastly, FA is more interesting map than JQ, but JQ gives much more Faction IIRC. If both gave NO faction at all, and had no glitches, guess which one would be played more.

Exactly. Imperfect AI is 20x better than an obvious bug/exploit. Imperfect AI is annoying when it happens. A bug simply makes people not play.

I've no intentions of doing so. If you dont understand that FA is a better designed map without teleport bug, and more interesting map (siege etc), and a map where you can do more stuff and more viable strategies, then i have nothing to add.

Lastly, there is a reason why people play FA so much. If ANet gave FA equal rewards to AB, im afraid tons of people would switch to FA instead. That's why FA always had lower faction.

um... wow. I don't think either of us are going to find a resolve. We're both on two different sides of the spectrum here, using arguments that are based on observation. I'd like to think that I have better observation skills than you do, but I don't think that's our problem.

The bug in JQ doesn't even guarantee the Kurzicks (and previously Luxons) a win, it just gives them a head start. It isn't even that much of an advantage either. With FA, a single warrior out of the picture can stop reinforcements arriving for the entire match. I don't see how that's 20 times better, and I don't see how imperfect-AI is NOT considered a bug, because if something isn't working as it is supposed to be intended, then its bugged. Apparently we're having a new and completely separate definition when we're talking about FA...

FA. And you've ignored my point completely.

So FA is a better map because it doesn't have bugs? Please. People should stop playing Guild Wars, with the amount of bugs this game has had. I could give a random example of a bug that occurred before... like when Deadly Haste was bugged, and suddenly every elementalist spamming Ice Spear flooded RA.

Did people stop playing RA then? (Let's not even go into HA, but people still played in those maps)

It's not because of a bug that caused people to stop playing JQ. But according to you, it's either that, or out of all of the matches that I've played, the game must have been killing them... Or I had Local Chat off the whole time. I don't really remember people complaining about the design of JQ, not once.

FA is played because everyone knows how to play FA. No point in you complaining about JQ if you don't even know how to play that map. Sorry.

I loled, because the terrible faction rewards for losers causes the Luxons to quit at this point because the game was decided before it started.

Yes, the glitch does guarantee a win. Stop playing on maps that give one side an advantage, and the problem is fixed. All those dozens of kurzicks in the JQ outpost can rot.

FA suffers from the same thing, though. All you have to do as a Kurz is kill the turtles when they get inside of the inner gates and the Luxon Warriors run straight for the nearest wall. A bonder on the gate and intense pressure on incoming players, and you won't have any problems.

The best thing you can do as a Luxon if you want faction is to AB when your side has advantage, or pve. JQ doesn't even come close on the list of priorities.

Was very popular during the double faction weekend aaages ago, not the more recent one for + faction when winning in AB. More double faction weekends!

If you're a Luxon and know how to play the game, you will PLOW through Kurzick lines, bonder or not.

What are these jokes, really? Luxons are favored in FA a lot and kurzicks in JQ due to bug.

/agree

that exactly why I don't play at JQ anymore.

The bug is fixed. I'm telling you, the problem isn't that, people don't know how to play the map. I just got one started half an hour ago, and the luxons lost because they didn't know what to do.

I wanted to be sure to mention that the exploit has been closed, as of today's update. Thanks to everyone for your patience as we resolved that issue.

Well, that happens, sometimes. With another match, the experience may be altogether different.

Thank You.

Countess

well, someone said it was full on luxon side and empty on Kurz... Now it's full on Kurz and empty(ish) on lux. It's been patched up, let's give this baby a ride, ok? Everyone, this is the perfect weekend to flex you JQ muscels.

OK, Running around the capitals, advertising JQ like a town crier doesn't seem to be working....

How about this:

If you want to give Jade Quarry a try, come out for a match (or two or five) at 5:00pm Pacific time Today (29th). That's 8:00pm Eastern, and 12:00am on the 30the for those in GMT.

I'm posting at 3:25pm Pacific, so that gives folks about 90 minutes to get into gear.

Come on out and show us you JQ mad skillz.

Edit: Remember, it's double rewards weekend, so there's that much more incentive to come out. The winning team gets 950 faction (better than the 800 of Fort Aspenwood) + points for kills of the opposition. So come on out and show your colours.

Edit part 2: If anyone here wants to post this invite on other forums, please do so.