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Originally Posted by Series
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What Constitutes an "Inappropriate" Name?
Omniclasm
icymanipulator
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Originally Posted by fog_of_redoubt
It has nothing to do with political correctness. It has to do with decency and maturity. You are not hiding behind a computer screen, you are out in the public when you play this game.
Would You and the OP act like 10 year old kids trying to come up with IDIOTIC names if you weren't hiding in the basement of your parents home? You really need to let this go, I cannot see why any reasonable adult would stand here and say that rude, explicit, demeaning, racist, etc names are "OK" |
Series
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
Again, I never once said that offending one person is okay. I never said that killing one person is okay. So by your logic, killing 1 person is that same as killing 100?
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Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by Series
No? If you do something wrong, you do something wrong. And it can be wrong on a severity. For example, an armed assault would get you in less trouble then a shooting spree, because it is less severe. You are punished regardless however, which is what you seem to not comprehend.
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Series
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
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Series
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
Ok, so then we can agree that things severe, such as joking about AIDS should be punished harshly, since it hits millions of people. We can also agree that making fun of One Legged John, would hit very very few people. So what do you suggest for the small punishment? 100g? 30 second ban?
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Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by Series
What are you talking about? Out of the 2 million or so GW players, a million have AIDS?
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fog_of_redoubt
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Originally Posted by icymanipulator
What ivory tower are you in to determine who is adult and what is considered appropriate adult conduct? It has everything to do with political correctness and my drawing of a comparison between other far deadlier pandemics is both relevant and reasonable. Obviously you haven't been reading the thread. Why would cracker, ofay or any variation thereof be acceptable when negro is not? You know what fog, I find cracker offensive. I find anything racially pejorative against white people offensive. Explain it away with immaturity all you want or "hiding in mommies basement" which is frankly childish on your part. Making exceptions is not ok and if one form is not allowed the other shouldn't be either.
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My point is that there are names made up for "shock value" or for dark or racy humor. It is childish (and not by my defenition of adult), it is something I expect to see out of 10-14 year old boys. And maybe that is who is doing it.
If Anet didn't police some of these names it would continue with worse and worse stuff. All of you crying out against bans for this stuff know this is true. They are doing the right thing (for once).
Series
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
Ok I don't know exact numbers, but I'm sure we can agree that more people have aids that play GW than people that have lost a leg?
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Or maybe the little offensiveness scale you are trying to use doesn't... work?
See, I think we could have avoided the murder analogy for one simple reason:
Murdering is against the rules.
Having a name that has a word in it that is allowed by the filter is not.
arcanemacabre
OMG it was a simple temp ban for choosing a name obviously intended for shock value. A temporary ban. So you can't play GW for a few days. It's not punishment - it's a deterrent, and a way for Anet to pull a little CYA.
Look, if it happened to me, I would be pissed too. Though if I ever made a character name like that, I'd understand the action taken. In fact, I'd probably be waiting for the ban stick every day.
Look, if it happened to me, I would be pissed too. Though if I ever made a character name like that, I'd understand the action taken. In fact, I'd probably be waiting for the ban stick every day.
Series
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
OMG it was a simple temp ban for choosing a name obviously intended for shock value. A temporary ban. So you can't play GW for a few days. It's not punishment - it's a deterrent, and a way for Anet to pull a little CYA.
Look, if it happened to me, I would be pissed too. Though if I ever made a character name like that, I'd understand the action taken. In fact, I'd probably be waiting for the ban stick every day. |
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by Series
I'm sure we can agree that more white people play Guild Wars then black people (GW is hosted in Europe and America, both predominantly white, while not in Africa). So I guess that names with the n word in them should be given quick 30 second bans while names with "cracka" in them deserve perma-bans?
Or maybe the little offensiveness scale you are trying to use doesn't... work? See, I think we could have avoided the murder analogy for one simple reason: Murdering is against the rules. Having a name that has a word in it that is allowed by the filter is not. |
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Originally Posted by http://guildwars.com/support/legal/rulesofconduct.php
1. While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.
3. You may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive language. |
Snype
When I bought Guild Wars, I read the Code of Conduct. I knew what I could do and what I could not do in order to avoid losing playing privileges. My problem right now is that Arenanet has taken away my right to play (and essentially, some of my money). I don't care how long it is for. If I didn't break the Code of Conduct (I challenge someone to find out where I did), then I see no reason to ban.
EDIT:After seeing the above post, I still don't believe I violated any part of those two clauses.
EDIT:After seeing the above post, I still don't believe I violated any part of those two clauses.
explodemyheart
Omniclasm, I think you forgot your initial post. Or you weren't paying attention? Or something?
You made the argument that it's not okay to use the name Snype has A I D S because there may be some man named Snype that plays GW that happens to have aids, and his life may have been devastated by it.
So in response to that, what if a character with the name One Legged John was created, and there happened to be some man named John that plays GW that lost his leg is a tragic accident in which, like I suggested, he lost both his wife and child.
How is that different? So maybe there's more people that play GW that have aids than those who've lost limbs in a traumatic accident, so what? If something is offensive, it's offensive. Snype whose life has been devastated by aids has no more or less right to feel personally offended than One-legged John who lost his wife and child just because he happens to be in a majority.
You made the argument that it's not okay to use the name Snype has A I D S because there may be some man named Snype that plays GW that happens to have aids, and his life may have been devastated by it.
So in response to that, what if a character with the name One Legged John was created, and there happened to be some man named John that plays GW that lost his leg is a tragic accident in which, like I suggested, he lost both his wife and child.
How is that different? So maybe there's more people that play GW that have aids than those who've lost limbs in a traumatic accident, so what? If something is offensive, it's offensive. Snype whose life has been devastated by aids has no more or less right to feel personally offended than One-legged John who lost his wife and child just because he happens to be in a majority.
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
Omniclasm, I think you forgot your initial post. Or you weren't paying attention? Or something?
You made the argument that it's not okay to use the name Snype has A I D S because there may be some man named Snype that plays GW that happens to have aids, and his life may have been devastated by it. So in response to that, what if a character with the name One Legged John was created, and there happened to be some man named John that plays GW that lost his leg is a tragic accident in which, like I suggested, he lost both his wife and child. How is that different? So maybe there's more people that play GW that have aids than those who've lost limbs in a traumatic accident, so what? If something is offensive, it's offensive. Snype whose life has been devastated by aids has no more or less right to feel personally offended than One-legged John who lost his wife and child just because he happens to be in a majority. |
Hell Raiser
He only got a 72 hour ban, not permanent. You should have a chance to rename the character after the suspension is up.
Series
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Originally Posted by Hell Raiser
He only got a 72 hour ban, not permanent. You should have a chance to rename the character after the suspension is up.
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Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by Snype
When I bought Guild Wars, I read the Code of Conduct. I knew what I could do and what I could not do in order to avoid losing playing privileges. My problem right now is that Arenanet has taken away my right to play (and essentially, some of my money). I don't care how long it is for. If I didn't break the Code of Conduct (I challenge someone to find out where I did), then I see no reason to ban.
EDIT:After seeing the above post, I still don't believe I violated any part of those two clauses. |
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| (a) Content. You acknowledge that by using the Software and the Service you will have access to graphics, sound effects, music, animation-style video, content, layout, design, files, data, characters (and items and attributes associated with characters), game objects and text (collectively, "Game Content"). NC Interactive does not pre-screen Game Content as a matter of policy. YOU UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT NC INTERACTIVE HAS THE RIGHT, BUT NOT THE OBLIGATION, TO REMOVE ANY CONTENT (INCLUDING YOURS) IN WHOLE OR IN PART AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE AND WITH NO LIABILITY OF ANY KIND. |
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by Series
*Begins to wonder if these people actually believe what they are saying or are just trying to defend Anet*
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Read what I said here:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
Personally, I don't find any name "offensive" per se. It's all in context. Would that name, or what was said in chat, be offensive to a large enough group, or a loud enough individual? If so, then it needs to be brought to Anets attention, or it could in the long run hurt them with bad publicity. That's really all there is to that.
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
And followed it with the ideal that less people are missing legs than people suffering with AIDS. SO WHAT? Who cares if there's 1 million people with AIDS that play GW, and just 1 man with a missing leg that plays GW? If you're championing that it's not okay because those 1 million people have possibly had their lives devastated, you cannot then turn around and say "so what about John and his one leg, he's in the minority!" Offensive is offensive is offensive is offensive! It doesn't matter how many people it offends, or for what reason they are offended, you can't just exempt certain people because they're in the minority.
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To further this, remember the whole panda thing? Where we couldn't have a panda as a pet because it offended the nation of China? Consider that.
ALSO: Like what I said, if that John with one leg decides to go on a crusade, and does everything he can, something will be done. Like I said, a large enough group or a loud enough individual. It's not about how offensive it is, it's entirely about how offensive it is to the people who can make a scene.
explodemyheart
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
My first post was explaining how somebody could find it offensive.
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RSGashapon
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Originally Posted by Snype
When I bought Guild Wars, I read the Code of Conduct. I knew what I could do and what I could not do in order to avoid losing playing privileges. My problem right now is that Arenanet has taken away my right to play (and essentially, some of my money). I don't care how long it is for. If I didn't break the Code of Conduct (I challenge someone to find out where I did), then I see no reason to ban.
EDIT:After seeing the above post, I still don't believe I violated any part of those two clauses. |
It is, however, in Anet's right to do whatever they need to uphold and enforce their side of the Code of Conduct that you so quickly agreed to.
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
And followed it with the ideal that less people are missing legs than people suffering with AIDS. SO WHAT? Who cares if there's 1 million people with AIDS that play GW, and just 1 man with a missing leg that plays GW? If you're championing that it's not okay because those 1 million people have possibly had their lives devastated, you cannot then turn around and say "so what about John and his one leg, he's in the minority!" Offensive is offensive is offensive is offensive! It doesn't matter how many people it offends, or for what reason they are offended, you can't just exempt certain people because they're in the minority.
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Are they going to ban someone because their name offends thousands? Quite probable
Are the 1-2 people still offended? Probably.
My first post shows how someone could be offended by the name, since some people here cannot grasp how AIDS could be offensive to someone.
Edit: Joking about AIDS, not just mentioning it.
explodemyheart
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
Are they going to ban someone because their name offends 1-2 people? No
Are they going to ban someone because their name offends thousands? Quite probable Are the 1-2 people still offended? Probably. My first post shows how someone could be offended by the name, since some people here cannot grasp how AIDS could be offensive to someone. |
In all likelihood, it comes solely down to Anet's determination of whether it was okay or not, not how many people have reported the name as offensive. It's likely that many people who've had temporary bans for offensive names have only been brought to the attention of Anet by a single random person who was offended by it. I personally know of at least one situation where a single person caused a ban.
Offensive is offensive, even in Anet's eyes, I'm sure.
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by explodemyheart
Actually, as someone has already stated, it is evaluated on a case-by-case basis. If someone reports it, Anet then determines whether it was offensive enough for a temporary ban and if it was a PvE character, if they will allow a name change.
In all likelihood, it comes solely down to Anet's determination of whether it was okay or not, not how many people have reported the name as offensive. It's likely that many people who've had temporary bans for offensive names have only been brought to the attention of Anet by a single random person who was offended by it. I personally know of at least one situation where a single person caused a ban. Offensive is offensive, even in Anet's eyes, I'm sure. |
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Originally Posted by Series
No? If you do something wrong, you do something wrong. And it can be wrong on a severity. For example, an armed assault would get you in less trouble then a shooting spree, because it is less severe. You are punished regardless however, which is what you seem to not comprehend.
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Mad King Corn
What we all seem to be missing here folks is the things in Guild Wars that may be offensive to people, should we petition Anet to remove them?
Like alcoholic beverages for instance, I had a relative die suddenly to a drunk driver, should anet remove alcohol from the game? Whenever I am in town and I see someone drunk and talking to themselves, I have flashbacks to the night of the phone call.
Like alcoholic beverages for instance, I had a relative die suddenly to a drunk driver, should anet remove alcohol from the game? Whenever I am in town and I see someone drunk and talking to themselves, I have flashbacks to the night of the phone call.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by Mad King Corn
What we all seem to be missing here folks is the things in Guild Wars that may be offensive to people, should we petition Anet to remove them?
Like alcoholic beverages for instance, I had a relative die suddenly to a drunk driver, should anet remove alcohol from the game? Whenever I am in town and I see someone drunk and talking to themselves, I have flashbacks to the night of the phone call. |
Angelic Upstart
"The Nondenominational Highly Contagious Illness",
That made me laugh out loud,
. Seriously though the PC brigade and all thier thin skinned po faced acolytes need to get a sense of humour, period, oh and by the way i also got A IDS, it dropped for me in the Ice Imp cave,
That made me laugh out loud,
Series
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Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart
"The Nondenominational Highly Contagious Illness",
That made me laugh out loud, |
I think this is a problem more with society then with Guild Wars. People have begun to think that they have a right to never be offended by anything. They feel that if they don't like something, it should be removed from society. Like the people who tried to get the pledge of allegiance banned from school. If it offends you so much, don't say it. But you aren't so special that because one thing offends you it should be removed from society.
Now, applying this to the topic is a little different because nobody actually liked the guy's name. But he had every right, according to the Guild Wars license agreement at least, to do so. If AIDS was a bannable term, it would surely have been censored like countless other words. The man wasn't censor bypassing so he could make a silly name, he just had an idea for a PvP alt on the fly and hit the create button and BAM, he gets slapped with a ban. 72 hours, 24 hours, permanent, it doesn't really matter. I'm sure if you got banned for 72 hours because Anet said you dyed your armor the wrong color, you would be pissed too (perhaps the top half red and bottom half green- offending people with red-green colorblindness! A very common ailment too). Still keep the stance "It is their game, they can do what they want"? Or maybe you too would say "Hey! That isn't in the agreement I signed up for! Anet, what's going on here!"
Angelic Upstart
Yeah my post at the pc brigade was aimed at the whole of society not just GW, but i think a ban was over the top, a bollocking would have been sufficient, as aids, although a widespread global problem, is not offensive in my book.The guy wasnt attacking any particular group he just used it as a name on computer game, end of story, if people dont like certain words or storylines in the national press then they should simply avoid reading them .
Peace out , i gotta take my son to school.
Peace out , i gotta take my son to school.
dargon
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Originally Posted by Snype
When I bought Guild Wars, I read the Code of Conduct. I knew what I could do and what I could not do in order to avoid losing playing privileges. My problem right now is that Arenanet has taken away my right to play (and essentially, some of my money). I don't care how long it is for. If I didn't break the Code of Conduct (I challenge someone to find out where I did), then I see no reason to ban.
EDIT:After seeing the above post, I still don't believe I violated any part of those two clauses. |
#3 You may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive language.
#15 You may not organize nor be a member of any pledges or groups within Guild Wars that are based on or espouse any racist, sexist, anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-gay, or other hate mongering philosophies.
There is also section 4d in the User Agreement which states
(d) Character Name. In order to use the service, you must create a character and choose a name for your character to identify your character to other Members (your "Character Name"). You may not select as your Character Name the name of another person, or a name which violates any third party's trademark right, copyright, or other proprietary right, or which may mislead other players to believe you to be an employee of NC Interactive or its affiliated companies, or which NC Interactive deems at its sole discretion to be vulgar or otherwise offensive. NC Interactive reserves the right, in its sole discretion, to (1) delete or alter any Character Name or (2) terminate any license granted herein, for any reason whatsoever, including, without limitation, any suspected or actual infringement of any trademark or trade name right, copyright, or other proprietary right.
Now, whether or not you think the name is offensive, in breach of a rule, etc etc etc, the point of the matter is that NC Interactive has the final say according to the EULA which you agreed to. Is the agreement enforceable? Who knows, do you really have enough money to hire a lawyer and find out, or would a judge take one look at your complaint and laugh his/her ass off? In the end, it's not up to us to determine what is or isn't appropriate, that is purely at NC Interactive and ANets discretion
arcanemacabre
Series, you need to step out of your own mind, and realize there is a whole world out there of other people that don't think like you. The problem with society is not that people are easily offended, it's what people are capable of if given the avenue to project their intolerance of others. Why do you think he chose "A I D S" to be included in his name instead of "Influenza" or something? Was it just the first illness he could think of? Just something random he pulled out of a hat? Or do you suppose it was for shock value, knowing that at least a handful of people out there are going to see it and be disgusted, making his smile just a little bigger?
People are only truly offended when they know it's not just affecting them alone. If you took someone suffering from some odd or unknown disease and made some joke about it to their face, they may be a little depressed or find it amusing, but I guarantee they wouldn't be offended (unless they can relate it to another disease like it). They can't relate it to anyone else's plight, and will see it as a more personal thing. It may be embarrassing, depressing, or aggravating, but not offensive in any way.
Trust me, I used to think like you. I, personally don't find much of anything offensive, but that's just me. I realize that there are people out there who do, and not respecting them is much like ripping your car through someone's yard and doing donuts simply because you don't personally believe in property ownership. Respecting other's values is an important skill for a thriving society. It's called empathy. It's something that, of all people or groups, companies in a capitalist society need to understand and use if they plan on succeeding.
Free speech is fine and dandy for us regular joes (though try to avoid slander and plagiarism), but you just have to understand that the smartest move for Anet is to cater to the easily offended - or look like the anarchist bad guys among the "good society".
People are only truly offended when they know it's not just affecting them alone. If you took someone suffering from some odd or unknown disease and made some joke about it to their face, they may be a little depressed or find it amusing, but I guarantee they wouldn't be offended (unless they can relate it to another disease like it). They can't relate it to anyone else's plight, and will see it as a more personal thing. It may be embarrassing, depressing, or aggravating, but not offensive in any way.
Trust me, I used to think like you. I, personally don't find much of anything offensive, but that's just me. I realize that there are people out there who do, and not respecting them is much like ripping your car through someone's yard and doing donuts simply because you don't personally believe in property ownership. Respecting other's values is an important skill for a thriving society. It's called empathy. It's something that, of all people or groups, companies in a capitalist society need to understand and use if they plan on succeeding.
Free speech is fine and dandy for us regular joes (though try to avoid slander and plagiarism), but you just have to understand that the smartest move for Anet is to cater to the easily offended - or look like the anarchist bad guys among the "good society".
Div
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Originally Posted by Snype
I will make sure in the future not to create any names with the word "cold" or "flu" in it. Anet might deem it inappropriate.
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Skuld
Carebears know no limits!
Angelic Upstart
Yeah my post at the pc brigade was aimed at the whole of society not just GW, but i think a ban was over the top, a bollocking would have been sufficient, as aids, although a widespread global problem, is not offensive in my book.The guy wasnt attacking any particular group he just used it as a name on computer game, end of story, if people dont like certain words or storylines, for example in the national press then they should simply avoid reading them.Words are just words, it is the context within which they are placed that causes offence in most cases.
Peace out , i gotta take my son to school.
Peace out , i gotta take my son to school.
bungusmaximus
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Originally Posted by fog_of_redoubt
Influenza isn't going to get you banned. AIDS is a sexually transmitted disease that has killed millions of people. |
I detest any form of censorship tbh. but GW is a game played by an international community. It's kinda hard to keep track of what all different cultures playing the game find offensive. I can't really blame aNet for trying to keep things a little neutral. They would hate it when parents don 't buy GW for their kids because they think it's bad for them, they would lose money in such a case. I personally don't give an ass when you name your char 'snype has A I D S', but the people who find it offensive are at a majority so it seems.
Etta
What with the 2nd posted, Upstart? Isn't it the same as the one earlier? I'm sure the op wasn't aim to attack anyone, just didnt have any common sense or just that, an idiot. Sometime words are not just words and to avoid anything or let it go in order to be dumb and happy just doesn't seem right, does it?
Angelic Upstart
What with the 2nd posted, Upstart? Isn't it the same as the one earlier?
Yeah was editing the original when i had a freeze up and double clicked, didnt realise til i saw your reference to it that i had double posted
Sometime words are not just words and to avoid anything or let it go in order to be dumb and happy just doesn't seem right, does it?
Yes they are, words are just words it is the individuals that read them and interpret different inferences that causes the differing of opinion. Also refering to your claim that it is not right to avoid things in order to be ""dumb and happy", i find your stance a little myopic , if i was so inclined im sure i could find offence within every newspaper i read, and sure some things get me riled up, but as there is no way to influence or change them, i let them go, because raging against something you have no control or influence over is a waste of time and energy, it has nothing to do with being dumb and happy.
This thread was about the rights and wrongs of a banned name, nothing else,
personally i cant see the problem with the name he chose, ok it wouldnt be my choice, but there you go, freedom of speech gotta love it.
Yeah was editing the original when i had a freeze up and double clicked, didnt realise til i saw your reference to it that i had double posted
Sometime words are not just words and to avoid anything or let it go in order to be dumb and happy just doesn't seem right, does it?
Yes they are, words are just words it is the individuals that read them and interpret different inferences that causes the differing of opinion. Also refering to your claim that it is not right to avoid things in order to be ""dumb and happy", i find your stance a little myopic , if i was so inclined im sure i could find offence within every newspaper i read, and sure some things get me riled up, but as there is no way to influence or change them, i let them go, because raging against something you have no control or influence over is a waste of time and energy, it has nothing to do with being dumb and happy.
This thread was about the rights and wrongs of a banned name, nothing else,
personally i cant see the problem with the name he chose, ok it wouldnt be my choice, but there you go, freedom of speech gotta love it.
JeniM
I do think the name is offensive
but all you people that think AIDS is an STD need to go back to school or wiki it because you don't actually know what your talking about
but all you people that think AIDS is an STD need to go back to school or wiki it because you don't actually know what your talking about
Perth68
I think its rediculous to ban on something like aids, I don't have any offense from it and I find it laughable that some people do. All that aside welcome to the internets, all name filters/bans in games have huge failings both banning fairly innocent and missing some bad stuff. Sorry it happened to you = /
JeniM
Don't appologise to him he made a name designed to offend people
Good Work Anet
Good Work Anet