I know this has been debated before but why doesn't more people debate it?
Using pets can be fun but the lose of using a single skill slot JUST to have your pet is more of a deficiency to the Ranger than a balance.
A ranger with a pet has to have Charm Animal skill just to have the pet active. Using 1 in 8 slots just for this is completely a waste for a Ranger.
A simple fix would be to merge the Comfort and Charm Animal skills into a single skill. Thus the functionality would stay the same completely.
I have tried numerous Beast Master builds and the single loss of the 1 skill just defiles the build completely.... it is a waste and inefficient.
Seriously... IF the 2 skills were merged, the Ranger with a Beast build... is it really going to off balance PvE or PvP ??!?
If so... show me proof.... else... let's get this implementation back on the table to get addressed from Anet...
Ranger Skill Fix : Merge Comfort and Charm Animal Skills
Prowlinger
Narcism
1 Skill slot for free passive DPS is bad.
Think this through.
Think this through.
Narcism
1 Skill slot for free passive DPS is bad.
Think this through.
Think this through.
TabascoSauce
/signed
I'd say that pet damage is not really significant. They serve better in the tank role.
Not that this is anything but a joke, but my Melandru's Stalker has the descriptive name "Meatshield" when they are in use.
Rangers could use some love, and this would encourage pet use.
Thanks!
TabascoSauce
I'd say that pet damage is not really significant. They serve better in the tank role.
Not that this is anything but a joke, but my Melandru's Stalker has the descriptive name "Meatshield" when they are in use.Rangers could use some love, and this would encourage pet use.
Thanks!
TabascoSauce
lyra_song
Hmm....1 skill slot for an elder pet, according to wiki.
480 health, 80 AL, damage of 17-29
Thats a free warrior right there.
480 health, 80 AL, damage of 17-29
Thats a free warrior right there.
Danax
/Signed. Atleast make us want to consider a beastmaster <_<
October Jade
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Hmm....1 skill slot for an elder pet, according to wiki.
480 health, 80 AL, damage of 17-29
Thats a free warrior right there. Not even close. Your "free warrior" has neither attribute points nor a skill bar. Of course, you could always invest heavily in Beast Mastery and load up on pet skills...but then it isn't exactly free anymore.
The sad truth is that BM builds will never amount to more than a novel diversion. They're great fun, but unless you're in a group of friends, expect to be ridiculed relentlessly if not kicked out altogether.
480 health, 80 AL, damage of 17-29
Thats a free warrior right there. Not even close. Your "free warrior" has neither attribute points nor a skill bar. Of course, you could always invest heavily in Beast Mastery and load up on pet skills...but then it isn't exactly free anymore.
The sad truth is that BM builds will never amount to more than a novel diversion. They're great fun, but unless you're in a group of friends, expect to be ridiculed relentlessly if not kicked out altogether.
Onarik Amrak
/Signed. My Ranger still doesn't have a pet even after getting Legendary Survivor. It's just not worth considering when there are so many better options.
Pericles
/signed fo sho
I never bring my pet with me because i have to use 2 skills, and thats a real shame, this would of course also make it easier for all the /R out there who want their pet to come as well.
I never bring my pet with me because i have to use 2 skills, and thats a real shame, this would of course also make it easier for all the /R out there who want their pet to come as well.
bwillcox
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak
/Signed. My Ranger still doesn't have a pet even after getting Legendary Survivor. It's just not worth considering when there are so many better options.
My preference is just the opposite. I like having my pet and use various pet attack skills to augment my ranger's normal use of barrage (guess I'm too impatient to use preparations, traps, and such). I would never claim that this is the ultimate build (or even necessarily a good one), but it's one I find fun to play and that's really all that matters to me with the game (that I have fun).
lyra_song
Quote:
Originally Posted by October Jade
Not even close. Your "free warrior" has neither attribute points nor a skill bar. Of course, you could always invest heavily in Beast Mastery and load up on pet skills...but then it isn't exactly free anymore.
The sad truth is that BM builds will never amount to more than a novel diversion. They're great fun, but unless you're in a group of friends, expect to be ridiculed relentlessly if not kicked out altogether. I would say the RaO Hammer Ranger is quite formidable, even post nerf. And ive seen pets perform with more brain than some warriors.
But most pet builds are just..not fun.
Theres a certain disconnect between commanding the pet and the pet actually doing it. It feels more like a hit or miss and based on luck than anything to really get a build to function as intended.
Imo, the whole pet system would work better if there was a beastmastery "weapon". Theres no point in marksmanship if youre going full fledge beastmaster.
The sad truth is that BM builds will never amount to more than a novel diversion. They're great fun, but unless you're in a group of friends, expect to be ridiculed relentlessly if not kicked out altogether. I would say the RaO Hammer Ranger is quite formidable, even post nerf. And ive seen pets perform with more brain than some warriors.
But most pet builds are just..not fun.
Theres a certain disconnect between commanding the pet and the pet actually doing it. It feels more like a hit or miss and based on luck than anything to really get a build to function as intended.
Imo, the whole pet system would work better if there was a beastmastery "weapon". Theres no point in marksmanship if youre going full fledge beastmaster.
Razz Thom
so which casting time would change? 10 seconds for comfort animal, or a 1 second charm? i hope it is a 1 second charm. insta lvl 20 pet anyone? "Hi I'm a lvl 2 ranger. Don't mess with me or my lvl 20 Dire Wolf will eat your head."
Horible
then just add a simple clause that says you can't charm any pet that is a higher level then the character trying to charm.
Horible
/signed
Horible
/signed
EinherjarMx
/notsigned
using an old school thumper:
tigers fury, irresistible blow,hammer bash, crushing blow, enraged lunge, bestial mauling, comfort animal, charm animal
and now, with the charm/comfort fusion:
tigers fury, irresistible blow,hammer bash, crushing blow, ferocious strike, poisonous bite,bestial mauling, charm animal
the thumper is supposed to add pressure in a team, with a simple free slot it would add pressure AND conditions (dazed, deep wound and poison) and tell me if it wouldn't be imba
using an old school thumper:
tigers fury, irresistible blow,hammer bash, crushing blow, enraged lunge, bestial mauling, comfort animal, charm animal
and now, with the charm/comfort fusion:
tigers fury, irresistible blow,hammer bash, crushing blow, ferocious strike, poisonous bite,bestial mauling, charm animal
the thumper is supposed to add pressure in a team, with a simple free slot it would add pressure AND conditions (dazed, deep wound and poison) and tell me if it wouldn't be imba
Skycluster
I think people look at beast mastery as...lets control the pet. Period.
Its there to help the ranger...I really think the pet only needs 1 pet attack+bow attacks. Be creative people don't stick 3 pet attacks on your bar so your animal can do all the work, get a freaken bow out and shoot things with it. Add apply poison and hunters shot while you use tigers fury to eranged lunge your foe to the ground. I find rangers holding staffs while these magic circles appear around them quite funny. Bow+animal, IMO is a better choice.4 attack skills/buff is really all i need.
Its there to help the ranger...I really think the pet only needs 1 pet attack+bow attacks. Be creative people don't stick 3 pet attacks on your bar so your animal can do all the work, get a freaken bow out and shoot things with it. Add apply poison and hunters shot while you use tigers fury to eranged lunge your foe to the ground. I find rangers holding staffs while these magic circles appear around them quite funny. Bow+animal, IMO is a better choice.4 attack skills/buff is really all i need.
phool
IMO the new pve BM skill should replace charm in pve.
Narcism
Quote:
Originally Posted by EinherjarMx
/notsigned
using an old school thumper:
tigers fury, irresistible blow,hammer bash, crushing blow, enraged lunge, bestial mauling, comfort animal, charm animal
and now, with the charm/comfort fusion:
tigers fury, irresistible blow,hammer bash, crushing blow, ferocious strike, poisonous bite,bestial mauling, charm animal
the thumper is supposed to add pressure in a team, with a simple free slot it would add pressure AND conditions (dazed, deep wound and poison) and tell me if it wouldn't be imba Thank you for having a brain.
using an old school thumper:
tigers fury, irresistible blow,hammer bash, crushing blow, enraged lunge, bestial mauling, comfort animal, charm animal
and now, with the charm/comfort fusion:
tigers fury, irresistible blow,hammer bash, crushing blow, ferocious strike, poisonous bite,bestial mauling, charm animal
the thumper is supposed to add pressure in a team, with a simple free slot it would add pressure AND conditions (dazed, deep wound and poison) and tell me if it wouldn't be imba Thank you for having a brain.
Marverick
17-29 damage every 2 seconds is like 10-15 DPS.. a Warrior can put out around 70 DPS constantly with Dragon Slash, a Dervish can put out around 150-180 DPS with 3 targets properly grouped. That 10-15 DPS does not replace anything. And it requires 11 points, with a rune, invested.
It's not 1 skill either, you need Charm AND Comfort Animal, otherwise your pet is useless. So lugging 2 skills around just for a pet? And then you need to protect your pet with Call of Protection or other stuff as most Monks/Rits aren't happy to be healing your little furry thing constantly.
/signed
It's not 1 skill either, you need Charm AND Comfort Animal, otherwise your pet is useless. So lugging 2 skills around just for a pet? And then you need to protect your pet with Call of Protection or other stuff as most Monks/Rits aren't happy to be healing your little furry thing constantly.
/signed
Narcism
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marverick
17-29 damage every 2 seconds is like 10-15 DPS.. a Warrior can put out around 70 DPS constantly with Dragon Slash/signed
A DSlash does 70 DPs.. woow.. talk about someone who doesn't think before typing.
A sword swings once every 1.33 seconds.
70 DPS.. is.. 93 damage per hit.
Incredible! I don't think I've ever seen DSlash alone or a 2xCrit Sun and Moon actually hit that hard.
Even if you say he was frenzied.. are you going to compare a Frenzy + DSlash bar (4 skills+) to 2 skills?
Guild Wars Guru knows how 2 balance.
A sword swings once every 1.33 seconds.
70 DPS.. is.. 93 damage per hit.
Incredible! I don't think I've ever seen DSlash alone or a 2xCrit Sun and Moon actually hit that hard.
Even if you say he was frenzied.. are you going to compare a Frenzy + DSlash bar (4 skills+) to 2 skills?
Guild Wars Guru knows how 2 balance.
Ensign
Charm Animal is a really good skill. It has two problems.
One, that in order to keep it from being a dead slot on your bar you need some sort of pet res. All of the pet res skills in the game are bad. Charm Animal is good, but it isn't worth two slots unless you have a ton of space on your bar.
Second, the attributes are terrible. In order for a beastmaster to be worth anything you need a ton of Beastmastery and a ton of some weapon attribute to be decent. Bows require a ton of Marksmanship and a ton of Expertise, as the entire skillset has been balanced around high Expertise. Bowman beastmasters who want to be worth anything need high Expertise, high Marksmanship, and high Beastmastery, which you simply don't have the points for. Hence all of the common pet builds use other weapons, which don't pay an Expertise tax and thus have the luxury of running with just weapon + pet, not weapon, pet, and Expertise.
Of course, pets being mostly a DPS addition doesn't mesh well with the Ranger primary, which is otherwise a rather weak DPS option.
One, that in order to keep it from being a dead slot on your bar you need some sort of pet res. All of the pet res skills in the game are bad. Charm Animal is good, but it isn't worth two slots unless you have a ton of space on your bar.
Second, the attributes are terrible. In order for a beastmaster to be worth anything you need a ton of Beastmastery and a ton of some weapon attribute to be decent. Bows require a ton of Marksmanship and a ton of Expertise, as the entire skillset has been balanced around high Expertise. Bowman beastmasters who want to be worth anything need high Expertise, high Marksmanship, and high Beastmastery, which you simply don't have the points for. Hence all of the common pet builds use other weapons, which don't pay an Expertise tax and thus have the luxury of running with just weapon + pet, not weapon, pet, and Expertise.
Of course, pets being mostly a DPS addition doesn't mesh well with the Ranger primary, which is otherwise a rather weak DPS option.
Amy Awien
If you don't like it, don't take it. Basically you are saying that any build using more then two attribute lines is a failure? If your argument is that it is impossible to create a pet build because you must have maximized stats in Marksmanship and Beastmastery and Expertise, then you have limited yourself so much beforehand that you might as well not even try. There is a good selection of useful, low-energy skills for Bow and Beast, and it's easy enough to get relevant attributes to a respectable near maxed level.
Merging Comfort and Charm could be a bit too strong. Pet skills are cheap efficient and frequently have double effects. But making Charm operate as Pet resurrect sounds interesting enough, though I am sure it has been mentioned before.
Merging Comfort and Charm could be a bit too strong. Pet skills are cheap efficient and frequently have double effects. But making Charm operate as Pet resurrect sounds interesting enough, though I am sure it has been mentioned before.
around
12 beast, 9 bow, 9 expertise.
Woot, you can be a crappy bow ranger AND a crappy beastmaster at the same time!
Woot, you can be a crappy bow ranger AND a crappy beastmaster at the same time!
Oblivious Moose
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Bowman beastmasters who want to be worth anything need high Expertise, high Marksmanship, and high Beastmastery, which you simply don't have the points for. Hence all of the common pet builds use other weapons, which don't pay an Expertise tax and thus have the luxury of running with just weapon + pet, not weapon, pet, and Expertise.
Of course, pets being mostly a DPS addition doesn't mesh well with the Ranger primary, which is otherwise a rather weak DPS option. i hate to burst your bubble there, but seriously. have you seen a RaO thumper lately? or even before the RaO "Nerf" they use hammer + Beast + Expertice, not just your weapon + pet.
its common for people to spread out their attribute points across 3 different atributes, and still be extremely effective, if not more so than doing a setup with only two.
the only thing that merging these two skills into one would do is make more ima "thumpers" and make people cry because they got owned by someone AND a pet. on the other side, it would spark interest for the pve peple to have the ability to do more, and desirable things wiht their pet. including other professions, they will have the ability to have a pet, and more skills in what they really want, other than the wasted slot that having a pet u can revive. as for the PvP group, this will cause sooo much complaining, and it will make anet nerf the whole beastmastery skill line even worse than it is, and people will keep crying, and more changes will come out for more people to cry over.. its balanced as it is, no reason to try and make things "better" when the damn thing isnt broken in the first place.
all that said, im not for the merging of these two skills.
Of course, pets being mostly a DPS addition doesn't mesh well with the Ranger primary, which is otherwise a rather weak DPS option. i hate to burst your bubble there, but seriously. have you seen a RaO thumper lately? or even before the RaO "Nerf" they use hammer + Beast + Expertice, not just your weapon + pet.
its common for people to spread out their attribute points across 3 different atributes, and still be extremely effective, if not more so than doing a setup with only two.
the only thing that merging these two skills into one would do is make more ima "thumpers" and make people cry because they got owned by someone AND a pet. on the other side, it would spark interest for the pve peple to have the ability to do more, and desirable things wiht their pet. including other professions, they will have the ability to have a pet, and more skills in what they really want, other than the wasted slot that having a pet u can revive. as for the PvP group, this will cause sooo much complaining, and it will make anet nerf the whole beastmastery skill line even worse than it is, and people will keep crying, and more changes will come out for more people to cry over.. its balanced as it is, no reason to try and make things "better" when the damn thing isnt broken in the first place.
all that said, im not for the merging of these two skills.
Ensign
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy Awien
Quote: Originally Posted by Amy Awien There is a good selection of useful, low-energy skills for Bow and Beast No, actually, there aren't. Bow has Distracting Shot there, everything else costs 10. Pet skills are a bit better. If you aren't taking advantage of the good bow skills, why are you using a bow? The answer is you aren't, you're using a Hammer or Spear in all likelihood.
Quote: Originally Posted by Amy Awien and it's easy enough to get relevant attributes to a respectable near maxed level. If you don't have 12 Beastmastery your pet is garbage.
If you don't have 12 Marksmanship your bow damage is garbage. If your bow damage is garbage, what is the point of using a pet?
If you don't have at least 13, and likely 14 Expertise, your skills are garbage if you're using Ranger skills.
You simply do not have the points to spec a character to reach all of those attribute levels.
Quote:
You have to look again then, it's quite possible to spec three lines high. The two extra attribute points from a maximized line result in no more then 5-10% damage increase, if that at all. It depends somewhat on the progression of the skills you use. |
Originally Posted by Oblivious Moose
have you seen a RaO thumper lately?
12 Spear, 10+2 Beast, 8+1 Expertise. They've largely given way to Heal as One thumpers since the AI runs that better, and there's no way to make Rampage energy attractive anymore with the butchered duration on Rampage. Pets work well as long as you're not using such an attribute point heavy character pre-pet.
I'm saying that any build using more than two attributes that need to be at a really high spec to be effective is a failure.
Quote:
Woot, you certainly are the crappy beastmaster, no, a crappy ranger, if that is the best attribute distribution you can come up with. If you need to 'prove' your point by giving such a crap example, you've lost the argument.
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No, actually, there aren't. Bow has Distracting Shot there, everything else costs 10.
That is rather untrue, and you should know it, there are plenty of good 5E bow skills to choose from. Quote:
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