PVP Weapon Skin Mod Beta 1.

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

Yeah a separate mod for just 50% (and 75 and 80%), spirit range and critical hits would be fantastic... you could call it the "PvE pack"

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiyuri
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/4523/iwinlw3.gif

Check it out, I made a system where it compares your map with the map of a grand master cartographer.

All the green highlighted areas are areas I've yet to uncover (that are uncovered on the cartrographer's map) all the pink areas are areas that I have uncovered that the grand master hasn't.



that's nice and all, but it doesn't actually show what you haven't found yet, because it just shows anything that's not "uncovered map", including areas you can't even go.
Cand you explain how you did that or if a program where to find it? I finished all three on one character and don't want to do it again with another unless I had something like that. Thanks

thunderai

thunderai

Community Works Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2007

USA

Centre of the Aerodrome

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherno
Cand you explain how you did that or if a program where to find it? I finished all three on one character and don't want to do it again with another unless I had something like that. Thanks
I have been able to come up with a way to simulate what he does, but it isn't nearly as good.

Take an image of elona fully explored with no icons and clouds as close to starting position as possible.

Take your map, take a screenshot of it with no icons and clouds at starting position.

In Paint Shop Pro, open the base 100% map, open your map. Copy your map onto a new layer of the 100% map. In the layer controls, create another raster layer that is white. For your map and the 100% map, set them to 50% opancy with the blend mode 'difference', anything you can see at that poaint is unexplored.

Cherno

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Stars of Destiny

E/

I found the map stuff on wiki, thanks!

legendel

legendel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

UK

League of Friends (LOF)

R/

is the map stuff on the wiki the same, ie red and green?

Elkodust

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

Haters Gonna Hate

Mo/Me

Where can we get texmod.exe?

legendel

legendel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

UK

League of Friends (LOF)

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkodust
Where can we get texmod.exe?
here

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guide...-game_graphics

MisterB

MisterB

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Planet Earth, Sol system, Milky Way galaxy

[ban]

W/

Thanks for the mod. It's very well done. The dying method for the skins is ingenious. I am posting just to inform everyone and confirm that this mod works on the PvE weapons that share the PvP weapon skin. Screenshot of my Fiery Flame Spitter:

Chrono Re delle Ere

Chrono Re delle Ere

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The Land of Hyrule

[GoE]

W/

Well this looks like an amazing mod but....could I be banned if I apply this? I mean I would like to hear something from A-Net....and how did other people find with this mod? Ty. Nice job anyway. Ah one more thing: can other people see the new skins? Ty^^

EDIT:K I read the topic, I missed some answers I was looking for :P Bt I would like to have some confirms; are there any key logger too? :P Anybody got the accout stealed? xD I'm kinda diffident, I know :P

Uzumaki000

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Aug 2007

never mind false alarm ^^

Pen_Cap

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Easley, S.C.

School Of Korean Hax [hax]

W/Mo

The only reason I won't use this mod is because when you die in pvp you have that overly stupid picture that pops up blocking your entire screen. It literally covers everything which is ridiculous.

I don't know if you have spent much time in pvp but that picture has got to go or you will lose fans of your work very quickly.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

WoW.. they should ban for this.. You are modding the game so that you have an advantage over other players... anet said you could mod the textures.. not give yourself a big advantage over others.

SupaHoser

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2006

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molock
WoW.. they should ban for this.. You are modding the game so that you have an advantage over other players... anet said you could mod the textures.. not give yourself a big advantage over others.
You could use it too if you feel like others are getting such a huge advantage by using it.

Elnai

Elnai

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Top Rating Loss Guild 5/25

Maybe.. I don't really know.

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molock
WoW.. they should ban for this.. You are modding the game so that you have an advantage over other players... anet said you could mod the textures.. not give yourself a big advantage over others.
Its hardly an advantage, and its something everyone has access to...

holyjew888

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Wisconsin

Guardians Alliance [ALLY] now recruiting

D/A

hows the map mod coming, i could REALLY use something like that

nazra7

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

no offense banable or not I don't download anything that makes the game easier becuase I consider it as cheating. In my oppinion this shouldn't be allowed. nor any other mod of the game. no matter how much you think its not much more of an advantage. I wouldn't encourage poeople to download these. I even look down upon my sister and brother for downloading modded uis for wow.

Machinae

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by nazra7
no offense banable or not I don't download anything that makes the game easier becuase I consider it as cheating. In my oppinion this shouldn't be allowed. nor any other mod of the game. no matter how much you think its not much more of an advantage. I wouldn't encourage poeople to download these. I even look down upon my sister and brother for downloading modded uis for wow.
No-one is forcing you or anyone else to use it, it's completely up to you. As I see it, this doesn't give anyone an advantage in any way, since all it does is change some skins and stick on a mark at 50% of the health bar, which is perfectly easy to do without the mod.

Customising the interface is something I love about GW, and is pretty unique when you think about it. I don't see anything wrong with using a cosmetic mod on it or another game. Good on your sister and brother.

nazra7

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

lies. If you need a mod to tell you something. then it gives you an advantage. or else why are you making it?

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

"lies. If you need a mod to tell you something. then it gives you an advantage. or else why are you making it?"

Good players dont need it, bad players can use it to get better faster.

NoXiFy

NoXiFy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

★☆٭Ńēŵ~ŶờЯК٭☆★

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/Me

i don't het how this is "cheating" at all. i dont even like the mod. =/

Machinae

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
"lies. If you need a mod to tell you something. then it gives you an advantage. or else why are you making it?"

Good players dont need it, bad players can use it to get better faster.
Wtf, can you tell me how a different skin to a few weapons or shields gives you any kind of advantage over other people using the normal ones?

As for the health bars, it's easy enough to drag an inventory bag icon or something over to where 50% is if you want to work it out (which people have been doing since long before people started to mod the .dat file).

nazra7

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

But... it still makes bad players better, thus givin an advantage, and thus cheating. My point proven. and I'm not talking about just this mod I'm talking about any mod that changes anything to help you keep better track or help you realize something better or help you do anything better. If it needs to be changed period it's a cheat.

As for the skins all I have to say is cheat. And do you know why? becuase you have to change it to make it look that way thus cheating.

RoF

RoF

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

My hammer is stained with the blood of countless assassins.

We Eat Pancakes [Yumy]

W/

First of all I would like to congradulate you on this great project which you obviously put a lot of effort into to help the community. However, that being said...

I have to agree with nazra and others.

If you want to change the appearance of the textures on your client side, fine. Although even allowing this is a slippery slope. What if I decide to change the animations so that every time a mesmer casts diversion a large red alarm appears over his head? I trust however that you just changed the item appearances to give people cooler gear.


But making a mod that gives you more information than other players IS CHEATING. No matter how small of an advantage it is, it is still cheating. Heck, I'd even say that idea to show the fog of war for cartographers could be considered cheating. (Think of how much easier it is to achieve the title if you can see the areas you missed). This really wouldnt be fair to those who achieved it legitimately, it devalues their achievement. Now I personally don't really care about that title as I pretty much only pvp but this is just an example.

Now the <50% health mod won't make a scrub monk godly or anything. (In pvp you often end up hitting zb just before they drop < 50 anyways so that by the time it is actually cast they are under.) But that's not the point, the point is you're giving yourself more information than the other players which is cheating.

And the fact that everyone has access to it does not make it ok. Not everyone reads these forums (way < 1% of playerbase). And even if informed ANETs clear policy against downloading 3rd party programs should be enough to deter people from considering this.

While I appreciate the effort you put into the creation of your project, I don't condone the use of it. You're giving players an advantage (no matter how small you think it is). And that is cheating.


EDIT:
Wow, I just reread it and discovered that you actually changed some of the skill appearances (frenzy, rush, some of glyphs). And you increased the range of THE RADAR, that gives an unfair advantage in hero battles. e.g: on the desert map on bombardment you hold the siege and central shrine and you're fighting 3v3 at his health shrine with each having 1 at your siege shrine. he might pull his hero of the siege and go take the central, but you cant see his hero until its about halfway or so. (In which case you'd want to pull your splitter to central as well). Being able to see further on the radar gives a huge advantage here. This is not cool.
/EDIT

Machinae

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoF
But making a mod that gives you more information than other players IS CHEATING. No matter how small of an advantage it is, it is still cheating. Heck, I'd even say that idea to show the fog of war for cartographers could be considered cheating. (Think of how much easier it is to achieve the title if you can see the areas you missed).
You're right. I assume you're all for banning everyone that did the alt-tab thing with a fully revealed map too, yeah? People have been doing this for years. It's not just the recent wave of texture mods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoF
This really wouldnt be fair to those who achieved it legitimately, it devalues their achievement. Now I personally don't really care about that title as I pretty much only pvp but this is just an example.
If your PvP experience is based on Hero battles you can't have a very varied basis for your comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoF
Now the <50% health mod won't make a scrub monk godly or anything. (In pvp you often end up hitting zb just before they drop < 50 anyways so that by the time it is actually cast they are under.) But that's not the point, the point is you're giving yourself more information than the other players which is cheating.
How many times do I have to say this? This. Isn't. The. First. Time. People. Have. Used. Things. To. Mark. The. 50% Mark. On. Their. Bars. It's easy enough to do in-game, with only the basic UI, so there's nothing given by this mod that you can't do yourself. Are you saying that it's unfair that they know more than you? That's life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoF
And the fact that everyone has access to it does not make it ok. Not everyone reads these forums (way < 1% of playerbase)
No. Just because they don't know about it doesn't mean they don't have access to it. Oh and btw, using the recent figure of 4million sales, 1% is 40,000. At the time of posting this, Guru forums has... 141,306 registered members. You do the math.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoF
While I appreciate the effort you put into the creation of your project, I don't condone the use of it. You're giving players an advantage (no matter how small you think it is). And that is cheating.
So I guess that using Vent or TS is cheating too, yeah? Of course, everyone has access to these, but that's not the point, is it?! I fail to see how giving people new skins or different animations could help at all. The only thing anywhere near this is knowing when you've hit a critical hit, and even then it's a pretty small advantage since Assassins have been able to tell since the release of Factions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoF
And you increased the range of THE RADAR, that gives an unfair advantage in hero battles
No, No, No. If you'd actually tried anything like this, you'd know that if you expanded the radar on your UI it would have the same effect. Stop posting about things you have no idea over.

NITEVIPER

NITEVIPER

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

U.K.

THE CIRCLE OF LIFE [AURA]

Mo/A

I totly agree.. After all the Anet interview on WIKI shows that ANet agree to the use of TEXMOD provided it doesnt give 1 player an advantage over another at that would be cheating and a breach of the rules.

So the 50% - 80% marker on the HP bar is classed by you as cheating. Would some Tape or a marker pen on a monitor also mean its cheating?

Making the UI darker or lighter is cheating because .....please dont tell me its because you can read it better?
"oh no, he can see the text better than me" .... pmsl

before people stand up and shout about things they know nothing about, i really suggest you listen to yourself first as all your doing is making us laugh..

But

If you was to add something like:
All resurrect skill, signet animation's <change to> level up animation
This would clearly breach the rules as it DOES give a player an advantage over others.


THINK B4 YOU SPEAK !

RoF

RoF

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

My hammer is stained with the blood of countless assassins.

We Eat Pancakes [Yumy]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae
You're right. I assume you're all for banning everyone that did the alt-tab thing with a fully revealed map too, yeah? People have been doing this for years. It's not just the recent wave of texture mods.
Find in my post where I said anything about banning anyone.. wait, I didnt.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae
If your PvP experience is based on Hero battles you can't have a very varied basis for your comments.
I used hero battles as an example of where expanding the radar would create an unfair advantage, I didnt say it was my only pvp experience.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae
How many times do I have to say this? This. Isn't. The. First. Time. People. Have. Used. Things. To. Mark. The. 50% Mark. On. Their. Bars. It's easy enough to do in-game, with only the basic UI, so there's nothing given by this mod that you can't do yourself. Are you saying that it's unfair that they know more than you? That's life.
Yes but these people are using methods available to everyone who plays the game. Altering the client creates an advantage. Otherwise, why would you do it? And no, this isn't life (for most of us), it's a game. And inside the game, the designers can choose to enforce fair play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinae
No. Just because they don't know about it doesn't mean they don't have access to it. Oh and btw, using the recent figure of 4million sales, 1% is 40,000. At the time of posting this, Guru forums has... 141,306 registered members. You do the math.
You got me there. though I doubt all those people are active.

Quote:
So I guess that using Vent or TS is cheating too, yeah? Of course, everyone has access to these, but that's not the point, is it?! I fail to see how giving people new skins or different animations could help at all. The only thing anywhere near this is knowing when you've hit a critical hit, and even then it's a pretty small advantage since Assassins have been able to tell since the release of Factions.
Using vent and TS is completely different than using a modified client. Do players using TS / vent have an advantage over players who arnt? Yes. But it is irrelevant because the game client has not been modified and the information provided by the IDENTICAL CLIENTS is the same for all players.


Quote:
No, No, No. If you'd actually tried anything like this, you'd know that if you expanded the radar on your UI it would have the same effect. Stop posting about things you have no idea over.
Resizing the radar doesnt expand it, it just makes it bigger... he's actually talking about increasing the range.. not the size. Why would he make a mod to expand the radar range if you could do it with the UI? that would be stupid. He explicitly states that his mod allows the user to see slightly further. (read quote below).

Obviously you disagree with me, and its ok. We can agree to disagree. But please don't make personal attacks or say I said things I didnt say. I didn't say people who use this should be banned or whatever. I'm not a membe of ANets dev team, they can make their own decisions about 3rd party programs. I said I don't approve of modified clients because they provide players with extra information. And I think this is cheating.



In case I wasnt clear here are the particular sections of the mod i think qualify as cheating.
Quote:
- Radar complete reskinned, allows user to see slightly further and shows spirit range
- Frenzy Skill effect changed
- Glyph lesser energy skill effect changed (may be removed in final version)
- Glyph renewal skill effect changed (may be removed in final version)
- Rush skill effect changed
While they seem harmless Anet has to have a policy on stuff like this without grey areas. Either something is cheating, or its not. It can't be (kindof) cheating. While changing the effects of these skills might not play a huge roll in the game, whose to say someone can't then go make a mod where more crucial skill effects are edited to make them more obvious. As I said earlier, what if when a mesmer casts diversion a red alarm appears above his head. And another alarm signal above anyone using a res signet. Obviously that would be cheating, but in essence it is no difference than what has been done here.

NITEVIPER

NITEVIPER

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

U.K.

THE CIRCLE OF LIFE [AURA]

Mo/A

Quote:
Do players using TS / vent have an advantage over players who arnt? Yes. But it is irrelevant
Is that because you use it so its ok ?


Quote:
While they seem harmless Anet has to have a policy on stuff like this without grey areas
They do. if it doesnt provide 1 player with an advantage over others then its ok, infact they encourage it. Many of the mods people make are used by ANET in updates.. How do you think they came up with the idea to make the UI transparent?.. it was a TEXMOD'er you released it first, it was then aproved by ANET and made official in a system wide update.

Quote:
But... it still makes bad players better, thus givin an advantage, and thus cheating. My point proven. and I'm not talking about just this mod I'm talking about any mod that changes anything to help you keep better track or help you realize something better or help you do anything better. If it needs to be changed period it's a cheat..
VENT-TS helps bad players to be better as they have someone more experianced guiding them, telling them what to do when. BTW Vent-TS is a mod as it isnt part of the original game. Its also a third party program, so i guess 60% (rough esti) of gamers in GW are cheaters.... ok


Quote:
As for the skins all I have to say is cheat. And do you know why? becuase you have to change it to make it look that way thus cheating.
I am actually colour blind so if someone makes a mod to help me read it better, im cheating because i can read the screen better than b4? .... rofl





The fact is TEXMOD has been used for years, sure some things people mod are classed as cheating and rightly so those players are then banned from GW, but many are NOT cheating and are widely used.

Faer

Faer

La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

Join Date: Feb 2006

Anybody who thinks changing textures is cheating needs to revert their system settings to default. That's right, crappy resolution, crappy colors, crappy background image. Why? Because by changing it, you are gaining an advantage over somebody else using that OS, because you might be able to use it more efficiently than they can. Your changes are helping you, but not somebody else, and that is obviously cheating.

RoF

RoF

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

My hammer is stained with the blood of countless assassins.

We Eat Pancakes [Yumy]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by NITEVIPER
Is that because you use it so its ok ?
Truncating quotes and substituting your own because, despite the fact that I had my own is quite poor form. Here is what i wrote, Ill make the because in bold so maybe you read it this time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RoF
Using vent and TS is completely different than using a modified client. Do players using TS / vent have an advantage over players who arnt? Yes. But it is irrelevant because the game client has not been modified and the information provided by the IDENTICAL CLIENTS is the same for all players.
and to the guy above me saying that changing textures is not cheating.

I didnt say changing textures is cheating. I said modding the client to do so is cheating. Obviously having an awesome graphics card will make your game run faster at higher levels of detail than mine (17 FPS if I'm lucky), but we're still using the same client so it's ok...

And someone please give me an argument for how increasing the radar range is not cheating. I'd love to hear it.

TBH i'm simply against modding games that are run on central "public servers." Modding your single player games or multiplayer ones that you run on your own private server is perfectly fine. Modding games that are run purely on public servers IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE, no matter how good your intentions are.

My opinions are my own, and you can bash em if you like. I've seen enough great games completely destroyed by what at first were "helpful mods," that eventually turned into rampant cheating. (just look at what happened to Diablo) Obviously this guy is not trying to cheat... but the line between what he's done, and what is actually cheating is negligible. Feel free to disagree with me, but keep in mind what has happened to other games.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Too bad you can't do rampant cheating with TexMod.

kkthnx

pork soldier

pork soldier

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2005

I read this and I lol'd - showing a 50% health mark is identical in function to dragging items off the menu to show the same thing, it's just cleaner. I suggest you QQ moar, and upgrade your video card while you're at it.

Knowledge

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

New York

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoF
Truncating quotes and substituting your own because, despite the fact that I had my own is quite poor form. Here is what i wrote, Ill make the because in bold so maybe you read it this time.




and to the guy above me saying that changing textures is not cheating.

I didnt say changing textures is cheating. I said modding the client to do so is cheating. Obviously having an awesome graphics card will make your game run faster at higher levels of detail than mine (17 FPS if I'm lucky), but we're still using the same client so it's ok...

And someone please give me an argument for how increasing the radar range is not cheating. I'd love to hear it.

TBH i'm simply against modding games that are run on central "public servers." Modding your single player games or multiplayer ones that you run on your own private server is perfectly fine. Modding games that are run purely on public servers IS A SLIPPERY SLOPE, no matter how good your intentions are.

My opinions are my own, and you can bash em if you like. I've seen enough great games completely destroyed by what at first were "helpful mods," that eventually turned into rampant cheating. (just look at what happened to Diablo) Obviously this guy is not trying to cheat... but the line between what he's done, and what is actually cheating is negligible. Feel free to disagree with me, but keep in mind what has happened to other games.
what exactly is your gripe about this? you opinion, wihle you are definately permitted to have one, is pretty short-sighted considering.

1.) do you have a problem with the radar thing? if so, let me enlighten you a little.

the default interface radar, covers some of the range, thereby limiting the visibility on the radar. if you've ever played this game, in the least bit competitively, you will notice, that theres points on the border of the visible radar, that is still considered "radar range" but you can no longer see the enemy/ally that is there b/c the silver border covers it.

i dont see how changing the interface skin to alleviate this problem is cheating and neither should you, b/c clearly, there is a problem with the current radar/compass. changing the interface skin merely allows you to see what you should be able to see anyway.

in addition, there is no possible way to change the range on the radar b/c something like that would be hard-coded into the game and would actually require MODIFYING THE GAME CLIENT TO DO SO.

2.) this brings me to my other counter-argument. TexMod isn't and shouldn't be considered modifying the game client. think of texmod as tracing paper, and guildwars as the picture you are copying. you can trace the picture under it, without modifying the picture directly. you can then add w/e you want to the tracing paper, even discard it, leaving the original, completely untouched.

next point.

3.) you feel that this purely cosmetic enhancements are giving people an advantage over others?

notice how i worder that question, thats exactly what this mod does, PURELY COSMETIC. things like changing the UI skin provides no advantage whatsoever.

the new critical hit texture, provides no advantage, as simply knowing that you crit from the texture doesn't provide you with any information that you can manipulate in any way. plus there are several other ways of knowing when you crit (when you see the same dmg number appearing, the default crit texture, the crit sound, and if you're on a sin, the bonus energy from critting.)

do you think that adding 50% and 75%/80% tick marks on the hp bar is cheating? then those people that take default UI elements and mark these on their party bars are also cheating. have you ever played counterstrike? i knew people that stuck tape to their monitor so they could accurately no-scope with the awp/m and scout. is that cheating?

4.) or do you feel like having an advantage is cheating?

is thats the case, then those people with naturally higher IQ's, are cheating, which is completely ridiculous. or those people, that are just better than everyone at the game, are cheating. b/c, having played longer/being better, is an advantage. this is not cheating, and notice again, completely ridiculous to think it is.

back to the counterstrike thing. counterstrike had built in aliases. i used and abused this feature of aliases and ended up creating some of the most advanced scripts in the game, effectively doubling the amount of binds i could have by essentially doubling keyboard space through the use of scripts/aliases. was this cheating? it was an advantage, but i would hardly call it cheating.

5.) do you feel that the use of texmod to edit/modify textures will in some way/shape/form harm the game?

the game is set up that changing textures wont cause harm to the game, b/c pvp still requires you to complete certain objectives, all of which, the modification of textures will not lead to/expedite easier victories. you still have to kill your enemies, out-strategize your enemies, and eventually kill the guild lord/complete objectives in HA.

the only thing that would harm the game in this manner that you fear, would be ACTUALLY MODIFYING THE CLIENT, so that you can insta-gib some1, or constantly crit, do extra dmg, run extra fast, attack extra fast, cast extra fast, have inifinte energy (etc.). all of these, i feel that are pretty near impossible or else they would have been done already.

6.) i dont see how the line b/c cheating and editing textures is negligible. as a matter of fact, i think that the line here is pretty damn huge actually.

why? because there is no possible way that changing textures will give an unfair advantage in any given situation. if you're a bad monk, giving you the 50%, 75%, 80% marks will only allow you to hit more zbs and lods. nothing more. its not like things are going to magically live b/c you have these markers. theres a lot more to monking than these damn 50% and 80% marks.

7.) i dont know why i took this long to refute your opinion to tell you you are wrong, i could have just said you are stupid, and left it at that, but instead i provided an in-depth explanation as to why you are wrong.

get over your opinion, and your short-sighted view of editing on tracing paper. people have been texmodding forever, just it hasn't been as public until recently. its sort of like the duping that happened. in either case,

TexModding isn't cheating. <--- Notice the Punctuation.