All Out War: Monster Guilds

Imagine all out war...with monsters! Yep, not real people, but just a huge battle between monsters in a "guild" and people. Monsters like Charr could have a "guild", and might challenge you and some other Ascalonian guilds to a huge fight on an empty field. Kind of like an arena, but with strategic points like towers corresponding to its environment.

The System:

1. INITIATION. You and your party kill a random monster boss (Charr for example), and OUT OF NOWHERE...a guild flag pops out from the sky!, along with a window saying: "YOU HAVE KILLED X! HIS GUILD, CHARMANDERS OF ASCALON, CHALLENGE YOU! (300 enemies)"

2. DRAFT. Next comes the recruiting part: your guild, which might not have enough members for this huge fight, will post up a message just like the observer mode system in which other guilds can participate in your "guild" fight. Random guilds join, and you guys begin the battle.

EDITED SUGGESTIONS:
(2.a) ORGANIZATION. A pre-battle period would take place in which the humans can form teams of 8. This way, the monk job of healing would not be so stressful. Maybe we could toggle between healthbars of different parties, so if one party is dying, a monk could just click on their party leader to see their health window.



3. BACKGROUND. Monster guilds would be lead by respective leaders in the pve story, to give the plot more practicality i.e. Bonfaaz Burntfur would be the level 30 guild leader in the center of the battlefield. Drakes would receive glint, Titans the Lich, Stone Summit the guy who killed Rurik, and so on and so forth. Human guild leaders would be raised by 5 levels and given some kind of status to make them look godly. (and charr would be raised to level 20)


4. BATTLE. Charr would battle in a HUGE field, with respective environments and strategic points. (bridges, towers, catas) all that good stuff, and a fortress in the back where guards lie in wait. You and your fellow guilds must obliterate the monsters (which can be controlled by devs) to reach step 5....



TOGGLED MODES:
(4.a) FLANKS (STRATEGIC). The ability to gather a team and start completely somewhere else. Instead of joining the big battle, jump in the portal "West Battlefield" and take your position. Form a party of strong soloers (Racthoh ahem ahem) and set them loose in the monster "Guild Base", taking on the strong strong strong guards!



(4.b) DISTRIBUTION MODE (credits to Banebow). Guilds start off in 6 spawns resembling a circle, in which monster patrols surround each. A main force is in the center, and guilds can go about different ways in killing the force. ("Do we kill the patrols and team up? Maybe we should kill all at the same time for faster rewards!")

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5. REWARDS! Very rare items, maybe new "red" items like "The Furburner of Bonfaaz"..I dunno! It could get creative!



Please critique! I dont care if you totally hate this idea, just tell me! And give some tips to why its so goshdarn bad. Thanks!

I think something like that would be really fun. Maybe instead of trying to find another guild, a message would appear in every city/outspost so anyone could join (with a cap of course). It would probably turn into a massive IWAY battle. Maybe put the cap at 50 for the amount you can have on your team and the monsters have 300-500. If you win then everyone on the team gets 1 unidentified gold item that is max and has req8.

50 against 500 monsters is overkill! hehe
but thanks for the input. i didnt really want random because i was trying to do the whole "massive guild battle" thing, hence the name guild wars! keep the replies comin!

I just dont see enemy AI keeping track of humans...or Humans being able to fight such large numbers

I like the idea, but it's not very practical for small guilds, like mine. On average, I've got maybe 2-3 people online, usually it's just me, and at most I've seen 5. If I was out there and killed X, then got that message, I'd probably be a detriment to the Guild that decided to come join little old me, even with some of my best builds. I'd be more of a leecher than anything else, and it was my kill!

Ok, so how about this instead? You get a token from said boss instead. You take that to your Guild Hall and when you've made a party, you use the Token instead of starting a GvG battle. The Token is consumed, and your party gets to fight a massive monster battle. This could be effective for training, as a great number of monsters *should* be about as difficult as a party of competent players, and just let them have normal drops for that monster type. You could build some great team work with that, help out your whole guild, and still get the massive fight that you're looking for.

I thikn its a great idea but the lag would be INsAnE!1111!..ahem.

i was thinking that the amount of humans would be proportional to the challenge.

if 300 monsters showed up, of course 2-3 people banded together with another small guild would not be enough. it would be slaughter. the system would hold a counter until somethnig like a 120 members joined, with as many guilds as needed. kind of like a whole unity thing among all guilds against a common monster.

ilike the idea, but are u goin to include dragons!!!!

I like this idea, it's very creative.

Due to lag issues for several players ( Especially me...heh heh ), maybe the battle should actually only consist of say, 8 godlike chaar warriors. This way, it can still maintain it's guild battle feel, and not cause farming builds to overun the fight.

Of course, due to the weaker points in the AI in the game, the opposing enemies could have a bit more monsters. I'm guessing it can be around 12 bosses in the arena. Two of each class I guess.

As far as the reward goes, maybe you can have some sort of battle trophy for your victory over -Pluug Ook Ook's Team- which you can show off in style through..an aura? o.o

itd be cool to have 8 godlike charr, but thats just like fighting bosses! i wanted to create kind of like a huge battle feeling, as if you're stuck in the middle of something big. picture LotR, ya know?

the humans would look at the huge charr force sprawled out...the guild leaders would yell some inspirational words..and then the two forces would charge each other like a huge swarm. wouldn't that be sick? charging 500 MONSTERS!!!?!

more input! more input!! lets tweak this idea till it hurts!

I don't agree with the amount of players/monsters just because of the amount of lag that would be created, but I think it would be awesome if you scaled it down a little. My MM would have an absolute hayday

raids XD that would be fun

MMs FTW.

If setup and balanced out properly...this would be awesome.

/signed (for genreal idea)

bump

The only problem I could forsee with this is the lag issue. With 500 monsters on the map... ew. Not to mention the ~100 players.

However, I love the idea.

I'm all for this, my system can handle well over 10000 playing RTW so 300 mobs and whatever amount of human players would be nothing compared to RTW's requirements. Snake Dance alone probably has that many mobs spread out over the zone. I'll have to count my kills next time I fight through it.

It's a great idea but I don't see it happening due to lag.

What I would like to see though, is some kind of crazy Post-Game PvE arena (sorta like the Arena expansion that was talked about, but an expansion focused on a gladiator arena just, wouldn't be enough I think).

But the thing about the arena, or not exactly an arena, more like a battlefield, was that you could have 2 teams of 8 (or 3), against about 2 zones filled with quite a few mobs (like the amount of charr you get to launch explosives at with the trebuchet). I think a 16 or 24 man raid split into 2 or 3 teams respectively.. Say for example, each party gets their party chat, but the whole team has their chat to so everyone can communicate after fights.

But yea, if it's a much smaller amount of people and mobs.. it could work.

One thing I'd love to see tho, is some form of 8 player combat versus 8 Dopples.. that would be hawt.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhh people use the search button.. we have so many threads as it is on charr invasion scenario.

But this is not an invasion... (thought could be part of it)
As said before, I think to do big battle, still would need to break up into smaller teams...

But such battle would be sweet in Observation mode (if done right). Would be enough to get your blood boiling as few face a dunting number of enemy all rushing to tear you apart, as you attempt with your dying breath try to complete your assign objectives. The smell of sweat and blood is mix in the air. Would be sweet (if done right)

I'm so going to bring Edge of Extinction.

Ye I like this RAID idea. But the lagg? Of course it's a big problem but i've seen it before and mybe i can see it again: Anet makes things not to lagg

this sounds really great fun lol
take a massive update ^ ^

LOL never thought of that. Edge of Extinction would make this Charr invasion a joke.

I like the idea but you'd need units of 8 as opposed to one giant team of 100. Otherwise monks wouldn't be able to target the individual team members very well and team spells like heal party and aegis would be extremely powerful.

Hmmm, 50 rangers + 50 pets...

I also like the idea of the 'token' to use later to initiate the battle since most likely you are in the middle of some mission or quest when this comes up.

new additions, comment on the flank idea?

i don't believe battles of this scale are technically feasible. that said, i really can't wait for some huge LoTR style battles. it would be even better if you could pit whole guilds (all their members) against each other in one massive 12 hour battle.

What about having this go to the guild hall (to make guild halls more useful), and I would just have your own guild go (with henchmen if you don't have eight people.) If guild alliances are set up, you could have them be the flank (which I think is an interesting idea to bring reinforcements).
This actually sounds like Invasion off of Unreal Tournament, very interesting.

If it is against charr... I could kill them all myself, no matter how many there are.

You got me thinking, and here are the changes I would make, though they might be to drastic, and deviate from the main idea more than you like.

First, one of the things I love about guild wars is that teamwork wins battles. Now, while you could in theory get a group of 50 warriors, place one in command, and then execute wedge formations and fallback routines, it is not likely. Much less than it may seem actualy, since many groups of 8 can't pull these things off. The thing is, why bother? grab 50 tanks, and have at the charr. Oh, you will lose some, but don't you take casualties in any battle? What good are mesmers when you end up with 10 of them, all stacking empathy on the same target? This "problem" can be solved like so:
Each map has 6 spawn points (old tombs players will remember that you used to get up to 6 teams on a map, so we know guild wars can handle that many player characters. That just leaves the question of how many monsters, and how bad the lag). Each spawn point will be chosen by one of your groups before the battle begins. Each spawn point can be chosen only once, so you cannot just group all your teams in one spot. The spawn points could be placed somewhat like this:
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Groups of charr will seperate each team, preventing this from becoming a "ok, lets run to the other teams and then wipe the charr" kind of thing. However, the main charr force would be at the center. So, each team has the option of killing the patrols separating them from each other and then teaming up. Groups are less likely to bum rush 20 charr with 8 warriors then they are with 48, so groups will be more likely to contain divers classes, but you could still take those 48 warriors and rush straight at the center if you chose, even though it would be a huge gamble (the spawn point idea comes from the "flanking" idea you put forth). Groups are also more likely to take mesmers and necromancers because they don't run the risk of fighting over corpses, or hex stacking. If the charr "scout" groups were randomly placed, this may also promot such things as a scout ranger build, in which a ranger attempts to find info about the placement of charr scout groups, and paths through those groups, without risking the whole team if he falls into a trap (does not notice that patrol coming from behind )

Second, allow these to be planned events. You should not have to go kill bontfaaz burntfur(sp?) X times with your group just because you want to do this, nor should it be random since many guilds have "off hours" as it were, in which only a few members are on. The problem with tokens is, to sum it up in one sentance:
"Looking for more for Lich token farming!"
Let guilds that want to do this do it when they wish to. If you are worried about the rewards being to good for the battle to be entered at any time, then up the battle difficulty.

Three. We (I) think guild alliances will be part of chapter two, so allow your allied guilds to assign teams with you. The initiating guild (the one that starts the battle) will tell the other guilds how many teams they will be allowed to field and at which spawn points they will be appearing. Up to 6 guilds could participate.

Four. Allow the option to scale battle size based on the number of groups. Small guilds with few to no allies may only be able to field two groups, and they should not be forced to fight a battle designed for 6 teams. Make it optional scaling because. . .well, what guild won't try to be the first to make a one-party group that can clear it?

Five. I disagree with the guild leader being raised 5 levels, if you are refering to the human team guild leader. He, like everyone else, is a man or woman, and should fight as such. People are leaders because of the way they act, not because of the extra bonuses the game has givin them. If you are talking about the charr guild leaders, then go for it, if only because it would make it harder.

Six. I do not remember if this was mentioned or not (I think it was, but I shall say it again) All the charr and other enemies that you fight would have to be leveled up to be strong(er). Most likely bring enemies to level 20-24, though if the enemies were already stronger than that, then leave them at the stronger levels rather then scaling them down.

Mmmm. . ..thats all I can think of for now, it would be a fun way to spend your time after you have finished the game.

Perhaps if the Charr did what Minion Factory groups do when they see it go down.

"OMGZ EDGES!!!!1"
"I'm attacking Edge of Extinction!"
"I'm attacking Edge of Extinction!"
"I'm attacking Edge of Extinction!"
"I'm attacking Edge of Extinction!"
"EVERYONE GET OUT OF HEAL RANGE AND KILL THE EDGE! AAAAH!"

wow..great ideas banebow. i was just thinking raising the guild leader 5 levels would give guilds (leaders mostly) to join in this fight, and to encourage the creation of guilds. great placement ideas, maybe we could toggle modes:

mode 1: classic battle
mode 2: strategic (classic with flank strike teams)
mode 3: distribution mode (your idea)

and of course the toggle function with amount of people. ill add this to the front page

bump

EoE FTW!

+ Insane lag time!

Well, with some clever server jumbling on Arena-net's part, lag may not be too much of an issue. Graphical tweaking could help too. A fog of war that relieves your card and modem from processing the entire 800 unit battle would certainly help. And add in the model and texture degeneration based upon distance, models become less detailed as they get furthur away. Suddenly lag is not a major issue.

To furthur help the issue, A-Net could dedicate an entire server to these massive battles. That would limit the amount of possible wars, but c'mon, how many 800 unit battles do you need to occupy people at any given time? This would disallow the ability for people or guilds to start them, as you would have hundreds of these things starting every minute, leaving many with little or no players. They should be started and managed directly by A-Net.

A-Net's direct supervision also allows for the kicking of IWAY farmers who are ruining the battle. And it helps knowing that you are not totally lost in a mob of n00bs and farmers.

About the MOB skills, I would say a nice mix of low level grunts backed by bosses would even the odds. Imagine a horde of level 13 Charr Axe Fiends backed by several lvl 30 bosses picking off n00bs like there is no tomorrow. Nice.

Now lets add in a scoring system, perhaps if you were to gain awards in addition to copious amounts of loot and XP for your excessive kills that would allow more incentive to join up.

I'm going to stop here.... My hands are numbing up....

This is the deathblow to the poor players on telephone lines.

/not signed.

the fog of war seems like the best solution to this whole lag problem, make it so that the player doesn't see the whole battle, making the experience realistic. and as for Anet managing these things from overabundance, i think it would measure out with the whole "toggle enemies" thing.

but u guys have really great ideas! keep em coming

this idea rocks!!!!!!!!
it might lag a bit but its would be worth it to see so many people working together.
it would be like being in a guild wars version of battlefield
yeah! maybe have it so there are 2 teams of 32
still looks like alot but with less lag
but yeah would be amazing : )

bump

From the sound of it, it seems that they might be doing something along these lines. From the official Factions FAQ:

Elite Missions
Elite Missions are the most powerful means by which alliances access new areas; they are designed to be the ultimate cooperative challenge.

Alliances are made up of multiple guilds, so these elite missions (pve) may consist of multiple human opponents fighting multiple enemies.