Update Regarding DOA 17 july 2007
Domain of Anguish
To balance the Domain of Anguish appropriately for a wider variety of players, the difficulty of this realm has been adjusted. Some of the changes apply only to Normal mode.
In Normal mode only, all world effects outside of the final battle have been removed.
In Normal mode only, damage output has been reduced for a variety of monsters.
The size of several monster groups found in the beginning areas of the City of Torc'qua and the The Foundry of Failed Creations have been reduced.
The Enraged ability possessed by creatures in the Domain of Anguish has been adjusted. This ability now gives the caster +50% damage when below 70% Health, and an additional +50% damage when below 30% Health.
Fixed a bug that occasionally caused Mallyx to stop reacting in combat.
Update - Friday April 20, 2007
Loot Changes
Adjusted the following items so that they are now exempt from loot scaling:
Skill Tomes
Scrolls
Dye
Rare materials, such as Ectoplasm
Gemstones from the Domain of Anguish
All other rare (gold) items
All unique (green) items
Special event items
I have set my eyes on those tormented items (shield, staff, recurve bow). At the moment I can only afford 1 item. But this new update kinda gave me new possibilities to get these items myself (I think).
Will the update make it easier to farm the gems (I think the exemption is in normal and hard mode) myself?
Will it be easier to form a group in DOA?
ATM an armbrace of truth in European districts cost around 100k+65ectos, will the price go down to about to about 100k+15 ectos before GWEN (I want my three main characters to have their own tormented weapon)?
Any reactions:
Update Regarding DOA 17 july 2007
yishin
Seifer Stone
I am personally upset with the DoA Nerf. I think it is admirable for the GW staff to want all of their players to enjoy all of the game, I feel it is a direct contradiction to the whole purpose of DoA. DoA is an Elite mission, therefore you would expect it to be difficult. It had the hardest missions with the best loot, and the players who could put in the time and effort to get in a DoA run were rewarded fittingly. Now, however, I know people that can solo farm torment gems.
I think the problem with DoA in the past was that the more experianced players had taken the time to find a cookie cutter build that works for DoA, and were too afraid to let non-Warrior, Ele, Necro or Monks into their group. I know for a fact that Dervs, Rits, Assassins, Paragons, Rangers and Mesmers can do just fine in DoA, and don't mind grouping with one that knows what s/he is doing. Most players aren't like this, and thus the nerf was born.
Before the Nerf, DoA was a place people respected, Torment items were fancy and unique, gemstones sold for more than a Scar Eater. Perhaps it's too early to tell, but I know the prices have gone down because of the increased exploitation of farming, and I bet the prices will continue to drop unless something is done about it.
Now, I'm not a gem farmer. I'm not even a farmer, I hate farming. I enjoy a difficult scenario that needs careful planning and organization to overcome, not a random PuG that can manage to skate by in DoA then brag about their un-noteworthy accomplishments. One might argue that HM can be for veteran players and NM for less experianced players, but the numbers won't add up. An experianced player, interested in only money, can farm NM faster than the reward for HM sets out, therefore the only people doing hard mode would be thrill seekers like me.
This post is already lengthy, so I'll cut myself off here. Feel free to argue with me, I am fully prepared to defend myself on this situation, and if I failed to cover something I'd like to know what. I simply feel the Nerf will ruin the in-game economy, and make DoA not as Elite as it once was.
Onima
I think the problem with DoA in the past was that the more experianced players had taken the time to find a cookie cutter build that works for DoA, and were too afraid to let non-Warrior, Ele, Necro or Monks into their group. I know for a fact that Dervs, Rits, Assassins, Paragons, Rangers and Mesmers can do just fine in DoA, and don't mind grouping with one that knows what s/he is doing. Most players aren't like this, and thus the nerf was born.
Before the Nerf, DoA was a place people respected, Torment items were fancy and unique, gemstones sold for more than a Scar Eater. Perhaps it's too early to tell, but I know the prices have gone down because of the increased exploitation of farming, and I bet the prices will continue to drop unless something is done about it.
Now, I'm not a gem farmer. I'm not even a farmer, I hate farming. I enjoy a difficult scenario that needs careful planning and organization to overcome, not a random PuG that can manage to skate by in DoA then brag about their un-noteworthy accomplishments. One might argue that HM can be for veteran players and NM for less experianced players, but the numbers won't add up. An experianced player, interested in only money, can farm NM faster than the reward for HM sets out, therefore the only people doing hard mode would be thrill seekers like me.
This post is already lengthy, so I'll cut myself off here. Feel free to argue with me, I am fully prepared to defend myself on this situation, and if I failed to cover something I'd like to know what. I simply feel the Nerf will ruin the in-game economy, and make DoA not as Elite as it once was.
Onima
Kinn
Have you tried DoA since the update to see how much of a difference it made?
King's Spectre
Seifer, I see your point but..
The intrepid folks who've adopted the DoA early on have had the chance to make a gob of cash. The DoA is about to be made irrelevant by GW:EN. It's time to make this area a little more open to people who don't want to run cookie cutters or don't have a vent-equipped guild staff standing by.
Did this patch do that? Dunno..
The intrepid folks who've adopted the DoA early on have had the chance to make a gob of cash. The DoA is about to be made irrelevant by GW:EN. It's time to make this area a little more open to people who don't want to run cookie cutters or don't have a vent-equipped guild staff standing by.
Did this patch do that? Dunno..
Sophitia Leafblade
Theres a difference in a Place being Fun and difficult, and being Tedious and difficult. SF being the 1st, DoA being the latter. Yes by all standards SF isnt considered difficult anymore this is because the Bar for difficulty has been increasingly hightened with each new campaign. But at some point it becomes not hard but tediously difficult and requires cookie cutterness > skill.
glountz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seifer Stone
SNIP
Have you tried the DoA in HM? Hmmm?
If not you should. I did and didn't find the place farmable or easy or whatever.
If not you should. I did and didn't find the place farmable or easy or whatever.
gerg-nad
Finally I find a place where this significant change is being discussed. I see this nerf as a very significant change to not only gameplay, but to item value.
Every elite area has a preferred build that makes the likelihood of success higher. In Tombs and Urgoz you bring B/Ps in the Deep you bring "The Steel Curtain" team build, etc. This just makes the likelihood of success higher. If folks want to bring other classes they can, but may risk failure. With as much time each area takes, people do not want to risk failure as they will be investing a lot of time to accomplishing this quest. So trying unproven classes or builds is risky and usually done only with Alliance teams with the intent to test some things.
To see the significant impact this DOA Nerf is all you need to do is simply go into Foundry and take a few steps in Normal Mode. No damage, which makes the NT/Pet tactic worthless.
What I don't understand is where is the Voice of the Customer data that says we want this aspect of the game to change. Game balance is one thing, but changing how you approach a whole segment of the game is not. Lets nerf The Deep, so a "Steel Wall" is ineffective or nerf Tombs so B/P rangers have nothing on any other class. These team builds just give folks a better chance of success and allow team dialog to synergize skills.
Hard mode is less changed by the nerf, but the gap now between HM and NM is much greater. HM, because the AI was smarter, made it more difficult and longer. That will likely still be the case, but will it match the reward?
I will give it time, but I often wonder where the Voice of the Customer is in all these changes? If Anet is not careful they will lose customers, which in the competitive market of MMORPG is very risky.
Every elite area has a preferred build that makes the likelihood of success higher. In Tombs and Urgoz you bring B/Ps in the Deep you bring "The Steel Curtain" team build, etc. This just makes the likelihood of success higher. If folks want to bring other classes they can, but may risk failure. With as much time each area takes, people do not want to risk failure as they will be investing a lot of time to accomplishing this quest. So trying unproven classes or builds is risky and usually done only with Alliance teams with the intent to test some things.
To see the significant impact this DOA Nerf is all you need to do is simply go into Foundry and take a few steps in Normal Mode. No damage, which makes the NT/Pet tactic worthless.
What I don't understand is where is the Voice of the Customer data that says we want this aspect of the game to change. Game balance is one thing, but changing how you approach a whole segment of the game is not. Lets nerf The Deep, so a "Steel Wall" is ineffective or nerf Tombs so B/P rangers have nothing on any other class. These team builds just give folks a better chance of success and allow team dialog to synergize skills.
Hard mode is less changed by the nerf, but the gap now between HM and NM is much greater. HM, because the AI was smarter, made it more difficult and longer. That will likely still be the case, but will it match the reward?
I will give it time, but I often wonder where the Voice of the Customer is in all these changes? If Anet is not careful they will lose customers, which in the competitive market of MMORPG is very risky.
Painbringer
I never thought of doing the DOA before because I try not to cookie cut my builds. I also never wanted to waste my time trying to find a group to accept this. This sounds more encouraging to me, and I will have to give it a try. There are many builds that have never been tried just because people will not give them the time of day because they have not been tested. Hundreds of skills and thousands of possibilities.
yesitsrob
DoA was completely shit before, it was easy and you were pretty much forced to bring some boring ass Searing Flame build. Now it's easy, except you no longer have to bring the lame build.
Bigger numbers aren't more challenging... and all DoA was is a lot of big numbers and some shitty environment effects.
Bigger numbers aren't more challenging... and all DoA was is a lot of big numbers and some shitty environment effects.
havok019
I'm all for the change. Every elite mission should be playable by every class in the game, period.
This doesn't mean there shouldn't be cookie-cutter builds. It means that every class should have a build that is capable and desirable for playing in every area of the game.
If only 1/2 (the holy trinity) of players can access a mission and have a reasonable chance of success, why make the mission in the first place?
This doesn't mean there shouldn't be cookie-cutter builds. It means that every class should have a build that is capable and desirable for playing in every area of the game.
If only 1/2 (the holy trinity) of players can access a mission and have a reasonable chance of success, why make the mission in the first place?
Seifer Stone
I understand where everyone is coming from, but it seems to me that the argument FOR the nerf is still so that other classes can play it. Like I said before, any class can play DoA, but as Gerg-Nad said, we don't want to spend two or three hours on a single mission only to wipe at the end because the group wasn't up to snuff.
Instead of nerfing DoA, why didn't they tweak the skills? That would have been more practical and less frusterating. 90% of people who play DoA do it for the cash, this mod has already been a direct contradiction to what they wanted. Yes, any class can do DoA now, any class can get the fun toys at the end, but nobody is going to bother buying those items now since EVERYONE can get them as easily as the next guy.
I think Gerg-Nad hit the nail on the head with the other elite missions, how come they didn't get nerfed? Or Hero's Ascent, I've always wanted to finish it for the cool toy at the end but any group that lets me in always dies. Nerf the PvP then to balance it out for me? No, that'd rediculous, I just need to either use a different character or find a more organized group. It's as simple as that.
As I said before, I encourage other opinions on this matter as it is one of the only things I've been truely upset about in the game. I'll by no means quit playing, but I feel kind of like Anet has let me down. Talk it up guys, we need more opinions!
Instead of nerfing DoA, why didn't they tweak the skills? That would have been more practical and less frusterating. 90% of people who play DoA do it for the cash, this mod has already been a direct contradiction to what they wanted. Yes, any class can do DoA now, any class can get the fun toys at the end, but nobody is going to bother buying those items now since EVERYONE can get them as easily as the next guy.
I think Gerg-Nad hit the nail on the head with the other elite missions, how come they didn't get nerfed? Or Hero's Ascent, I've always wanted to finish it for the cool toy at the end but any group that lets me in always dies. Nerf the PvP then to balance it out for me? No, that'd rediculous, I just need to either use a different character or find a more organized group. It's as simple as that.
As I said before, I encourage other opinions on this matter as it is one of the only things I've been truely upset about in the game. I'll by no means quit playing, but I feel kind of like Anet has let me down. Talk it up guys, we need more opinions!
tasha
I will start by saying that I am not a huge DoA player. My Guild has only recently started "learning" DoA together and our progress has been slow and tedious. At the speed and learning curve we were showing, I was beginning to wonder if the rewards would actually be worth the effort, considering how little fun I was getting out of that area of the game. Yes I realise that most of the trouble is due to an inexperienced team and an experienced team will breeze through the area, but its something new we wanted to do as a Guild.
We usually run through DoA on Saturdays so I won't be able to see if the area is substantially easier till then, but felt I would share my initial opinions on the update.
Overall, I don't think this update was needed. As gerg-nad said, I saw no demand to make the area easier, it was managable to get through, while still offering the "veterans" a greater reward on HM. While it will be beneficial to others such as myself, I fear the area will go the same way that Urgoz went for us - too long, too boring and too repetative for the time spent in it. I personally have no interest in Tormented Weapons, so I view the experience as a way of making a little cash and enjoying the company of my guild. While before it was frustrating, it gave us something to work on. Now I fear the response will be "Oh no, not DoA again, I nearly drilled my brain out last time it was so boring". In addition there will now be such a step between normal and hard mode that a lot of players will be turned away.
As for why the other elite missions weren't touched... someone somewhere knows. At any rate, I don't think balancing the area with skills would have been appropriate considering the knock on affect on PvP.
We usually run through DoA on Saturdays so I won't be able to see if the area is substantially easier till then, but felt I would share my initial opinions on the update.
Overall, I don't think this update was needed. As gerg-nad said, I saw no demand to make the area easier, it was managable to get through, while still offering the "veterans" a greater reward on HM. While it will be beneficial to others such as myself, I fear the area will go the same way that Urgoz went for us - too long, too boring and too repetative for the time spent in it. I personally have no interest in Tormented Weapons, so I view the experience as a way of making a little cash and enjoying the company of my guild. While before it was frustrating, it gave us something to work on. Now I fear the response will be "Oh no, not DoA again, I nearly drilled my brain out last time it was so boring". In addition there will now be such a step between normal and hard mode that a lot of players will be turned away.
As for why the other elite missions weren't touched... someone somewhere knows. At any rate, I don't think balancing the area with skills would have been appropriate considering the knock on affect on PvP.
Racthoh
DoA was simply not fun before. Loading up a warrior with 8 defensive skills then nuking the hell out of everything is not challenging it's just boring.
Quote:
Quote:
VitisVinifera
I'm all for it. From what I'm hearing though, Mallyx needs a similar nerf, now that the trick to killing him reliably was fixed.
We all have our motivations, and those are all perfectly fair, whether it's for or against the nerf.
My motivation for being for the nerf is that it simply was annoying, and I don't have the time it takes to spend hours upon days upon months learning all the little tricks, methods, builds, and elite groups to get into. I'd rather team up with my guildies and alliance mates, who are definitely on the advanced side but not pro farmers, and have fun together. If it's frustrating or a huge waste of time or offers virtually no rewards at all, that's not worth playing. If this nerf brings that more into balance, I'll start playing it.
We all have our motivations, and those are all perfectly fair, whether it's for or against the nerf.
My motivation for being for the nerf is that it simply was annoying, and I don't have the time it takes to spend hours upon days upon months learning all the little tricks, methods, builds, and elite groups to get into. I'd rather team up with my guildies and alliance mates, who are definitely on the advanced side but not pro farmers, and have fun together. If it's frustrating or a huge waste of time or offers virtually no rewards at all, that's not worth playing. If this nerf brings that more into balance, I'll start playing it.
arsie
Actually, I am wondering if Anet is able to monitor the number of unique accounts/characters that have spent significant time in DoA.
If they do have that information, they might decide that DoA is being enjoyed by too few people for their liking.
They might have determined the numbers or percentage of unique users they would like to have enjoying even such high-end content. Instead of repeatedly being played or farmed by a smaller number of players.
For people to strive for something, they must feel that what they are striving for is achievable. If it is deemed an impossible task, people will give up.
Anet threads a fine line between having DoA elite, while having it seem achievable. Only time will tell.
If they do have that information, they might decide that DoA is being enjoyed by too few people for their liking.
They might have determined the numbers or percentage of unique users they would like to have enjoying even such high-end content. Instead of repeatedly being played or farmed by a smaller number of players.
For people to strive for something, they must feel that what they are striving for is achievable. If it is deemed an impossible task, people will give up.
Anet threads a fine line between having DoA elite, while having it seem achievable. Only time will tell.
Iuris
Quote:
However, the purpose of the elite areas is not to provide a source of extra income. The purpose is to provide a new CHALLENGE to those who no longer find the rest of the game a challenge. The increased rewards are only there as a secondary effect.
A game of this type has to find a proper balance: provide the players with rewards, so their efforts are justified, however, it must also pose the players an appropriate challenge to give the rewards worth.
In the case of DoA, there was simply too much of a challenge and Anet has decided to rebalance it. Given how few people played before, I think the move was well made.
Iuris
Oh, and Anet is definitely able to monitor how many people play which area. It's one of the primary elements of maintaining their network, after all, knowing where the loads are highest...
arsie
My point is not just how many people, but who those people are. Whether it is the same few people playing there repeatedly or whether they are different people.
Effendi Westland
I'm all for this change. Should have been modified a long time ago, but for every person asking for a DoA nerf, there was someone asking not to nerf it, or even make it more difficult.
When they added Hard Mode one side got what they wanted, an area so hard it only allows for one approach to clearing it.
This change gave the others what they wanted, an easier DoA, hopefully enjoyable by more players and less need for the cookie cutter build that has emerged.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VitisVinifera
When they added Hard Mode one side got what they wanted, an area so hard it only allows for one approach to clearing it.
This change gave the others what they wanted, an easier DoA, hopefully enjoyable by more players and less need for the cookie cutter build that has emerged.
Quote:
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Racthoh
DoA was simply not fun before. Loading up a warrior with 8 defensive skills then nuking the hell out of everything is not challenging it's just boring.
6 defensive skills, aftershock and LB gaze, but yea I get your point
Sukodin The Great
I agree and I disagree..... I was hoping to kill Mallyx before GWEN, as once I kill him, I will be satisfied that I have beaten NF and dont need to sit around and Farm DoA anymore.... I am lucky and am in a guild that spends most of our time in DoA.. and we do it rather well.... Though as many have pointed out, the structure of the current DoA builds has limited the chars that I can play there... I currently have an Ele, a Sin, and a War in DoA, though only play with my Ele... This is because the accepted Tank DoA build SUCKS and there is no accepted Sin build, which is a shame, since the Sin is such a fun char to play....... Hopefully with the change to NM, this will allow for a more diverse range of groups to go through the different boards.
Personally, I agree with the comment above about how DoA was soon to become obsolete when GWEN comes out, so this is ANets way of trying to get more people in there.......
Darkpower Alchemist
I have wanted a tormented sword since the damn mission area was opened. What did I get instead? A huge amount of people who won't take my ranger in a team because no rangers are accepted unless trapping in the Veil or Famine backpacking for a monk farmer.
Let's just say that wasn't what I had expected for an elite mission. As for the other elite missions; UW still is a place were skill makes or breaks a team, or a solo farmer for that matter. FoW is more team/player friendly, but takes some knowledge to do it fully. The Deep/Urgoz/Tombs has been broken down to a science. B/P groups excell in places where the enemies start out slow and steam roll once the minions are up as in Tombs/Urgoz. The last time I was in the deep, I was the warrior/tank, so I know it takes more time and a set type of skills to get the job done. DoA proved different because if you weren't a warrior, monk, or ele you couldn't get in a team to save your life. The effects of the areas made the place even more daunting. DoA was an area of pure brute force that couldn't be circumvented with skill alone, so the brute force approach that is popular their took form and alienated almost all the other professions. That alone made the nerf needed. gerg-nad
Well now that I have tried Foundry with a PUG group in Easy Mode (normal) after the nerf, I have found that without the NT/Pet tactic, you get wiped in the second small room.
The group tried it three times and each time the PUG group got wiped. The two groups of foes that spawn there, spawn nearly on top of you since room is so small and the first group has a KI in addition to Dryders and the second Riders and Dryders. We later went back in Hard Mode and did it fine. The foes generally were easier and had we gotten through that 2nd room it probably would have been easier. I am not so sure Foundry on Normal mode is easier, since the tactics used to get through no longer work. Some serious rebuilding of teams will be necessary to get through in normal mode. So a team set up for hard mode will likely not be the same team for normal. This also goes true for Mallyx. There was a way to beat Mallyx before, but now I am not so sure (I have not confirmed), but I expect Mallyx will be near impossible to beat. If this is the case Mallyx Greens will skyrocket in price, but gems, except Titans may drop. As far as team and teamplay, I do not play DOA for the loot (my 8 toons and storage is max out even before I began DOA), I play it for the challenge and teamwork necessary to complete it. During DOA quests, everyone gets on Ventrilo or TS to communicate and work together and have fun. The skills the team take are synergitic and complement each of the roles to ensure success and that we are an effective and efficient team. Teamwork is essential in DOA, for example the SB monk and the Tank need to constantly communicate to maximize protection from bond stripping. The Ele and sometimes Necro have to sync there SacMS on the correct target (usually a Ki or Heart) and if they do not the team may fail. The BIPer and HB monk need to constantly assess the welfare of the team with energy and health. So I found that a good DOA team is like any very good team that rely on communication, skill, preparation, and work together to be successful and each member have a role to fulfill. I think this change has now potentially, at least in normal mode, taken something away from this, so in my opionion it will no longer be an elite area. Navaros
Quote:
Originally Posted by gerg-nad
What I don't understand is where is the Voice of the Customer data that says we want this aspect of the game to change. Game balance is one thing, but changing how you approach a whole segment of the game is not. Lets nerf The Deep, so a "Steel Wall" is ineffective or nerf Tombs so B/P rangers have nothing on any other class. These team builds just give folks a better chance of success and allow team dialog to synergize skills. I will give it time, but I often wonder where the Voice of the Customer is in all these changes? If Anet is not careful they will lose customers, which in the competitive market of MMORPG is very risky. |
If anything lost Anet customers, it was making DOA the way it was originally in the first place, and not nerfing it way back then so the vast majority of it's NF customers were happy. For most customers, it was equivalent to if NF contained no elite mission because DOA was never ever worth bothering with.
Yes elite missions should be "hard", but there is a fine line between "hard" and "Extremely ludicrous, and only 3 of 10 classes are welcome, and only with cookie cutter builds." DOA as it originally came out was way beyond the "hard" line.
I myself never bothered to touch DOA after the first night it came out so I have some questions of my own for DOA veterans:
1. After this DOA nerf, will all classes now be welcome in DOA?
2. How much "easier" is DOA after this DOA nerf?
3. Can random PUGs who are not on Vent now succeed in DOA, or is it still too "hard" for that to be possible?
gerg-nad
I find it interesting to see a lot of folks that have not played DOA much have a lot of opinions about it. I also find folks talk about cookie cutter builds and I am not sure I understand what is meant. It it means that the team should take the optimum skills that will maximize the DPS and will be effective for the the foes that will be encountered and are complimentary with other teammembers skills then on every mission I want a cookie cutter build.
The tactics employed by most teams in DOA are better suited for certain classes. Rangers for example need direct line of site to be effective and much of the tactics employeed in DOA are not direct line of site. However there is a 5 man team with Rangers that has proven successful in areas and was beginning to gain popularity. But this means that the tactics of the team will need to change.
I have talked to many veterans that have been effective with many different classes in DOA, but the team needs to set up to be complimentary with their skills and rolls and understand the tactics they will employ. If the team tactics is not line of site and you bring Rangers this will be very ineffective or if you bring energy consuming skills without energy support for the team the quest will likely fail.
With the long time investments elite missions take, people want to be successful, so are not going to take a "hoj-poj" group of classes and skills and end up failing.
The tactics employed by most teams in DOA are better suited for certain classes. Rangers for example need direct line of site to be effective and much of the tactics employeed in DOA are not direct line of site. However there is a 5 man team with Rangers that has proven successful in areas and was beginning to gain popularity. But this means that the tactics of the team will need to change.
I have talked to many veterans that have been effective with many different classes in DOA, but the team needs to set up to be complimentary with their skills and rolls and understand the tactics they will employ. If the team tactics is not line of site and you bring Rangers this will be very ineffective or if you bring energy consuming skills without energy support for the team the quest will likely fail.
With the long time investments elite missions take, people want to be successful, so are not going to take a "hoj-poj" group of classes and skills and end up failing.
ca_aok
Quote:
Personally I just want Mallyx to be killable, and I'll be happy.
Seifer Stone
I think I agree with Gerg-Nad on all accounts. That is not to say I don't agree with other opinions too, of course, but Gerg's stand out. Perhaps we're looking at it from a wrong angle. Perhaps the four beginning missions were nerfed to make gems unfarmable, or at least not worth farming, thus making the Mallyx weapons more sought after since Mallyx was de-nerfed.
This way, gems are little more than tally marks and the true light at the end of the tunnel is Mallyx? With the nerf, more builds can comfortably join DoA teams and therefore more builds could be thought of to use against Mallyx, therefore opening our eyes to other possibilities?
Therefore HM would be for players who want a challenge and NM is for players who want to farm, but the rewards of farming either are less than satisfactory, therefore Mallyx is the only real objective in the long line of quests?
What do you guys think?
This way, gems are little more than tally marks and the true light at the end of the tunnel is Mallyx? With the nerf, more builds can comfortably join DoA teams and therefore more builds could be thought of to use against Mallyx, therefore opening our eyes to other possibilities?
Therefore HM would be for players who want a challenge and NM is for players who want to farm, but the rewards of farming either are less than satisfactory, therefore Mallyx is the only real objective in the long line of quests?
What do you guys think?
Y.T.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
Exactly. I've personally played with multiple classes not part of the "accepted group". I've played with domination mesmers, paragon tanks, ritualist spirit spammers, ranger splinter barragers and bips, dervish tanks, ele tanks, etc. Really the only class I've never played with in DoA is an assassin, and I doubt that they will ever see use since they have no place in DoA. However the bottom line is that the usual build is the fastest and easiest way to do it in most cases. (Although the domination mesmer is actually quite a nice ele replacement).
Personally I just want Mallyx to be killable, and I'll be happy. i agree, but i have to add that assasin can tank nicely, but of cos player have to know the area pretty well to be able to tank on any char - tank's the most demanding role in doa teams. personally i'm playing monk, ele, mesmer, rit and necro in doa (necro retired tho), i'm planning to play my ranger there more often (however i'm not going to bip with my ranger
). as long as players know what they're doing and can communicate well and work as a team, any professions can find their place in doa teams.
its also rly amusing to hear ppl complaining about not being able to get into pugs in doa with any other chars but holy trinity - war monk and ele - why should any team accept ppl who have no intention of being useful for the team, who dont give themselves troble of spending 15min reading wiki article about doa and adjasting their builds? i saw wammos with mending and HH insulting evr1 in doa am1 cos they cant find a group, of cos it wasnt wammo's fault, just evr1 else was stupid and snobbish... derv/ele with gale and firestorm trying to join citadel group w/o even knowing what citadel is.... barrage rangers trying to find mm to form b/p teams for gloom ... the list is endless
doa was easy be4, doa is still easy, i'm sure theres at least 1 way to kill mallyx w/o the trick, so its ok. i'm glad that noobs now got the option to entertain themselves spamming LFG mallyx quest and dieing repeatedly on noob mode - Darvin was right, and those who'll survive might actually learn smth and i hope that majority of whiners will leave, so overall quality of pugs in doa might slightly improve. come to think of it, mb its not such a bad update after all, dont u think?
Personally I just want Mallyx to be killable, and I'll be happy. i agree, but i have to add that assasin can tank nicely, but of cos player have to know the area pretty well to be able to tank on any char - tank's the most demanding role in doa teams. personally i'm playing monk, ele, mesmer, rit and necro in doa (necro retired tho), i'm planning to play my ranger there more often (however i'm not going to bip with my ranger
its also rly amusing to hear ppl complaining about not being able to get into pugs in doa with any other chars but holy trinity - war monk and ele - why should any team accept ppl who have no intention of being useful for the team, who dont give themselves troble of spending 15min reading wiki article about doa and adjasting their builds? i saw wammos with mending and HH insulting evr1 in doa am1 cos they cant find a group, of cos it wasnt wammo's fault, just evr1 else was stupid and snobbish... derv/ele with gale and firestorm trying to join citadel group w/o even knowing what citadel is.... barrage rangers trying to find mm to form b/p teams for gloom ... the list is endless
doa was easy be4, doa is still easy, i'm sure theres at least 1 way to kill mallyx w/o the trick, so its ok. i'm glad that noobs now got the option to entertain themselves spamming LFG mallyx quest and dieing repeatedly on noob mode - Darvin was right, and those who'll survive might actually learn smth and i hope that majority of whiners will leave, so overall quality of pugs in doa might slightly improve. come to think of it, mb its not such a bad update after all, dont u think?
ReiNaruto
I just want to say that after this patch, I finally could play DoA with my friends and a bunch of heroes. I get my first gem drops and remnants.
I think this update was necessary due to the people, not the game. I was trying to play for weeks and nobody want to play with a ranger/Dervish unexperienced player.
I think this update was necessary due to the people, not the game. I was trying to play for weeks and nobody want to play with a ranger/Dervish unexperienced player.
Effendi Westland
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
Quote:
Gloom has the same nastiness as allways (the cave).
Veil has blood drain nastiness, can't imagine how you plan to tank this without masses of health, so I guess mass enchants + symbioses are still required here.
Foundry of failed creations: With the disappearance of the environment effect the trick to getting past the rooms has been made impossible (at least in normal mode). Haven't seen a pug get past that room in normal mode and most just go to HM to complete it even if they would previously do it on normal mode for quickness.
Mallyx: Impossible to kill now.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Navaros
3. Can random PUGs who are not on Vent now succeed in DOA, or is it still too "hard" for that to be possible?
If random pugs means your typical FoW/UW group set up or something. Then they might succeed after much hardship in the City. Any other area...good luck.... these can be hard even with the cookie cutter builds. PuGs offcourse only add to the difficulty.
gerg-nad
I aggree with Effendi. The Foundry Normal mode can be circumvented by a member bring the Golem and having the HB monk NT to it. Usually its one of the Ele's that brings the Golem. City has like 4 Ki and so few groups now in normal mode it has significantly changed, est time to get it done is closer to an hour now. I am curious is GWEN going to have a new elite area, as DOA is beginning to dry up. The groups that are there now are very inexperienced and groups generally end up taking much longer to form and often do not make it very far.
If folks are new to DOA please be prepared. Read some Wiki on DOA, look at the recommended builds and get those skills. Get Ventrilo and Team Speak working, and be open to suggestions from more experience players. We all have to start sometime, so many will take new players as long as they have done their homework. For example having a tank, without OF is generally not going to get into a group, or if it does will be because the group is inexperienced. The very large problem with Mallyx/the Citadel quest/ is getting a group together, and all of my toons now are stacking at Citadel, since either no one is getting by him and has stopped trying or experience folks have just stopped doing DOA. I have a team build I would like to try, which starts with the Standard team build and augments it for the Mallyx encounter at the end. The thing folks need not forget is that you need ot get through the 18 groups before you even get to Mallyx, so if you optimized just for Mallyx you may not have the right team and skills for the 18 groups before you get there. Also the last update said the Door will open after the cut scene. Well it does not remain open, but I believe it will open after you aggro Mallyx. A survival tactic would be to get out of the room. We tried it once after the statement by Wiki of the door opening and thought it was to remain open, but does shut after the cut scene. We died before we exited on that try, since we thought it was not going to open at all, but we think it may have opened once Mallyx got near the door. gerg-nad
I aggree with Effendi. The Foundry Normal mode can be circumvented by a member bring the Golem and having the HB monk NT to it. Usually its one of the Ele's that brings the Golem. City has like 4 Ki and so few groups now in normal mode it has significantly changed, est time to get it done is closer to an hour now. I am curious is GWEN going to have a new elite area, as DOA is beginning to dry up. The groups that are there now are very inexperienced and groups generally end up taking much longer to form and often do not make it very far.
If folks are new to DOA please be prepared. Read some Wiki on DOA, look at the recommended builds and get those skills. Get Ventrilo and Team Speak working, and be open to suggestions from more experience players. We all have to start sometime, so many will take new players as long as they have done their homework. For example having a tank, without OF is generally not going to get into a group, or if it does will be because the group is inexperienced. The very large problem with Mallyx/the Citadel quest/ is getting a group together, and all of my toons now are stacking at Citadel, since either no one is getting by him and has stopped trying or experience folks have just stopped doing DOA. I have a team build I would like to try, which starts with the Standard team build and augments it for the Mallyx encounter at the end. The thing folks need not forget is that you need ot get through the 18 groups before you even get to Mallyx, so if you optimized just for Mallyx you may not have the right team and skills for the 18 groups before you get there. Also the last update said the Door will open after the cut scene. Well it does not remain open, but I believe it will open after you aggro Mallyx. A survival tactic would be to get out of the room. We tried it once after the statement by Wiki of the door opening and thought it was to remain open, but does shut after the cut scene. We died before we exited on that try, since we thought it was not going to open at all, but we think it may have opened once Mallyx got near the door. |