Lately I've been messing around with necro's in PvP, and have come to a build that seems to work pretty well for me, but there may be ways obvious to more experienced players to improve it that elude me.
The build:
[skill]Dark Pact[/skill][skill]Vampiric Gaze[/skill][skill]Life Siphon[/skill][skill]Faintheartedness[/skill][skill]Life Transfer[/skill][skill]Enfeeble[/skill][skill]Return[/skill][skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]
Main focus - heavy degen, spammable armor ignoring damage, large leech capability
Secondary - melee reduction
Armor: Mostly radiant, with energy runes. Also, Blood and Curse runes.
Rationale:
After playing a few weeks in the random arenas, I noticed a disproportionately high number of melee types, especially assassins and warrior monks (paladins). These guys invariably went straight for the monk/rit, and if such a healer didn't exist, then on to the next 'squishie' in the list, (which I always am, not really enjoying playing melee). Sins especially seem to have a cocky attitude, regularly leaving their support and healing behind to mindlessly shadow step to a squishie and unload. Almost every caster I played seemed to get destroyed by a Moebius Strike build, or something involving Shroud of Silence or the like. Hence this build, which seems to be pretty good at keeping me alive, and putting pressure on whatever class is the priority target.
Playstyle: I tend to hang back behind the front lines. If there are no sins, I will start out by enfeebling whatever melee moves into range to attack. If a sin ports to our healer, the first cast is also enfeeble on the sin. This usually greatly reduces their attack capability, and allows the healer to keep up with the spike. If the sin (or melee) is on someone else, I will follow up with Life Siphon, and Faintheartedness. This puts around 6 health degen on the character, for a healthy life drain, with the added benefit of further reducing a melee characters effectiveness, by slowing them, AND increasing my health regen. After that, it's spamming dark pact (sac. health for low cost shadow nuke), follwed by vampiric gaze (gain that health right back, and further damage them). Because health degen is capped at -10 pips, Life Transfer is saved for emergencies. If I am not under attack, I'll slap it on top of the other hexes - even putting 4 health regen on the target won't slow their life loss, and dark pact, gaze spam will finish them off. (I sometimes try to blanket the elite hex with one of the otehr 2) The other use is when I come under concentrated attack - life transfer plus vampiric gaze seems to do a very good job of keeping me alive even under heavy fire - high health regen, plus a decently spammable life steal.
Also, if the **** really hits the fan, I can use my single, unspecced assasin spell, return, to get the hell out of dodge, and let my life regen from Life Transfer.
I've noticed that a lot of people seem to ignore the degen until it's too late. They swing away blindly until they reach 50% health, and then realize how fast their health is dropping and panic, stopping attacking me and running away - the worst thing they can do. As soon as they panic, my health starts regen'ing, and it simple to reapply the hexes and spam them to death. Good players don't fall for this, and seem to react as soon as the first hex is on them.
The obvious drawbacks?? Obviously, hex removal reduces this build's effectiveness by over 50%. I can still spam dark pact and vampiric gaze, but without the additional health degen, these are ineffective in killing someone.
Also, there are a few builds which are not hex friendly, which I seem to have trouble dealing with. (There is one particular Dervish Avatar form that dehexes that tends to kill me - Avatar of Dwayna, I think??)
Energy management hasn't been too much of an issue. Once the hexes are on them, I simply let them do their work while my mana regens, throwing out the occasional low mana cost (but health sac) from Dark Pact. Also, my spells have been chosen to be relatively low cost - all are 5, or 10 mana at most. That, plus mana runes seems to keep me pumping away.
Other than that, it seems to be doing pretty well for me so far. I am a relative newbie at this game, but I have enjoyed this build a lot. Like I said, the biggest threat to me so far in Random and Team Arenas has been from sins, both attacking me and our healer, and this will quickly decimate a sin who doesn't withdraw and respond appropriately - and the aforementioned dervs with insta hex removal.
I make no claims as to it's effectiveness in 'big boy' PvP, such as GvG and the like. In fact, I'll go as far as to say it's an unwise build for large scale PvP, in which case it's only useful as a pressure tactic - in real PvP a) a healer is going to cover your health and heal you through the degen, and b) they will likely have a good hex remover.
As for RA where you have less than a 50-50 chance of being in a decent group (much less of actually having a healer), it does a pretty good job. I hate depending on someone else to heal me in RAs, as most seem to be even weaker at the game than me.
I am interested, and would welcome constructive criticism. I am spending a lot of time in the RAs and TAs trying to learn the game so I can get competent enough to get in a decent guild and try out GvG. I've tried some of the more obvious modifications, like Soul Barbs (but the damage from 3 hexes doesn't equal the damage I am giving up from the replaced spell). Any help/comments??? I have seen no builds like it on PVX, but it seems like a pretty basic and obvious build.
Thanks!!
Improve my build!!
Brigand
ZenRgy
Less life transfer, more spoil victor, less transfer, more price of failure.
Moloch Vein
You haven't specced the attributes, neither have you specced the strength of runes.
Also, I have yet to see a necromancer able to "spam" a 10e spell in RA with no energy management.
Dark Pact isn't a desirable spell in most circumstances, there are far better things to put your slots into - If you absolutely must use a saccing attack spell, use Blood of the Aggressor.
Life Transfer is a horrible elite, and as you're set as N/A you aren't even able to echo it. As Zen mentions if you really must go Blood you would do better with SV.
Signet of Lost Souls would perhaps be an idea with this build but I'm not aware if you have points in Soul Reaping or not.
Also, I have yet to see a necromancer able to "spam" a 10e spell in RA with no energy management.
Dark Pact isn't a desirable spell in most circumstances, there are far better things to put your slots into - If you absolutely must use a saccing attack spell, use Blood of the Aggressor.
Life Transfer is a horrible elite, and as you're set as N/A you aren't even able to echo it. As Zen mentions if you really must go Blood you would do better with SV.
Signet of Lost Souls would perhaps be an idea with this build but I'm not aware if you have points in Soul Reaping or not.
Brigand
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenRgy
Less life transfer, more spoil victor, less transfer, more price of failure.
I like both of those skills, and can defintely see their potential, but neither heal me. I've actually tried them in a build before, and I still seem to get burned down before they finish off my attacker.
What would you combine with those spells to keep me alive without a healer??
I like both of those skills, and can defintely see their potential, but neither heal me. I've actually tried them in a build before, and I still seem to get burned down before they finish off my attacker.
What would you combine with those spells to keep me alive without a healer??
Brigand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Quote: Originally Posted by Moloch Vein Also, I have yet to see a necromancer able to "spam" a 10e spell in RA with no energy management.
Dark Pact isn't a desirable spell in most circumstances, there are far better things to put your slots into - If you absolutely must use a saccing attack spell, use Blood of the Aggressor. Well, the reason I put the 2 spells in is for the reason you say I am lacking (energy). Dark Pact is cheap...only 5 mana. This is likely due to the fact you have to sacrifice health to use it. As I am always regenning health, it's totally not an issue - its the cheapest cost, for the highest damage return I can get for a single, non-combo spell. With mana regen, and ongoing health regen, I can cast it all day.
Vamp Gaze is 'spammable' in that I can cast it every time it's up - the recharge is a factor considering the frequency of casts. True, the net return is negative, but the cast rate vs how much it costs per cast is only slightly negative. Stopping casting for only a brief time makes up the deficit. Maybe I should not call it 'spamming', but it is used frequently.
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Life Transfer is a horrible elite, and as you're set as N/A you aren't even able to echo it. As Zen mentions if you really must go Blood you would do better with SV.
Here, I really can't see why you consider LT a 'horrible elite'. -8 health degen on target, +8 health regen on self, almost instantly cast. How is this 'horrible'? I have acknowledged that hex removal is an issue, but it is just as effective at countering the 2 spells above - SV is just as quickly removed, and you got no benefit out of it. Everyone talks about SV, but I don't have as high an opinion of it. Smart players will simply stop attacking/casting (which admittedly is a GREAT benefit), but I can't force them to kill themselves if they pay attention. Also, it's worthless if the condition isn't met.
The monks that you killed and "called you a cheater" were probably...what, smite monks? 55 monks? The recharge time on LT doesn't really allow it to pressure the opponent at all. One hex removal on LT gets rid of your regen and makes your elite useless for 30 seconds. SV and RM have a much shorter recharge time, making it more spammable and puts more pressure on the monks. SV has the potential to do amazing amounts of damage, especially on melee and monks. RM is amazing in heavy hex builds. LT is amazing at wasting an elite slot, neither putting pressure or dealing enough damage to kill(against decent teams, not like the 55 monks you've obviously been encountering).
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadkid
good players can put every skill into good use wich i do and i have been using life transfer for a long time
Your modesty about how good you are because you've used LT for a long time makes me laugh.Quote:
Wow, I feel like puking after reading that post lol. Please learn to spell and use punctuation marks.|
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Signet of Lost Souls would perhaps be an idea with this build but I'm not aware if you have points in Soul Reaping or not.
I don't have a lot of point in soul reaping - don't really see the point in a marginal return for 4v4 PvP. In large scale battles, it probably rocks...but in RA, a little energy/health is not as big a deal. If someone dies, you already have a huge advantage as it is. I dunno, maybe I am missing something about soul reaping.
Moloch Vein
Life Transfer has a 30 seconds recharge time.
Pick Me
I agree, drop Life Transfer.
What is your attribute set-up? How many points into Curses do you have? Soul Reaping? Shadow Arts? You could use Insidious Parasite with Enfeeble. Plague Touch instead of Faintheartedness. That way, any Assassin starts to chain you, you use E + IP and PT if they send conditions on you. Spoil Victor is good if you sac a lot.
Razz Thom
i think prob price of failure in place of life transfer. stops melee quickly and leaves your other combos intact. also it last 30 seconds and recharge in 20. plus with enfeeble it makes attacking pointless. if energy isn't a big concern you could even swap enfeeble for reckless haste(more expensive/but stupid melee'ers die very quick.)
WildmouseX
it depends alot on which PvP you're playing, for example my AB build owns all in AB, holds it's own in HoH, and completely sucks hairy ass in RA. generaly speaking, unless you're spikeing stay away from blood. furthermore, you're build is asking you to spread you skills through 4 different attributes, which you've probly got runes for that either arn't very effective, or are reduceing your overall life.
the primary job of a sin is to leave the saftey of his line, and spike the back line of the opposeing side - so as a caster, you are always the primary target of a sin, and they are stacked to drop you fast. gathering from your post, being anti mele, in RA with self healing is what you're concerned with.... so sticking with N/A i'd go something like... [skill]faintheartedness[/skill][skill]spiteful spirit[/skill][skill]reckless haste[/skill][skill]price of failure[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]signet of sorrow[/skill][skill]caltrops[/skill][skill]shadow refuge[/skill] this way you've only got three attributes to put points into (curse, soul reaping, shadow arts) got faintheartedness to slow down mele attacks with a little degen.... SS and PoF to do direct armor ignoreing damage, with reckless haste fuleing both of them....spamible sig to deal direct damage, another sig for healing and E-management..... caltrops to cripple the sins so you can get away, and shadows refuge for your main heal. if you must bring a res sig, i'd drop sig of sorrow or faintheartedness since reckless haste negates half of it's slowdown anyway
Dr Strangelove
Really, if you want a PvP necro, run [wiki]spoil victor[/wiki] [wiki]spiteful spirit[/wiki] or [wiki]reaper's mark[/wiki] you can make ok builds with other stuff, maybe, life transfer is not one of those "other stuff"
Cathode_Reborn
at 16 blood:
Life Transfer, -8degen for 12 secs = 192hp lost. Spoil Victor, triggered twice = 205hp lost. SV is tons more spammable. LT sucks simply cause it has a fat recharge. Besides that, all it does is a very short burst of high degen/regen, nothing devastating or special. I guarantee you that as you play your nec more often, you'll realize how powerful SV is. Reaper's Mark is another good skill if you decide to pump up your Soul Reaping high as it's degen is very long lasting and can cause much more life loss than LT.
mrmango
I commend you Brigand for trying to intelligently show your reasoning, by far one of the most people trying to start PVP. And I'm a r2 scrub who won't know much more than you either, but I do know how LT sucks, the recharge and it only being degen/regen for short time. I agree with what has been said to respond to you.
ZenRgy
Oh yeah if you have points in shadow arts, why not try [skill]Feigned Neutrality[/skill], it's rather handy. In my corrupt enchantment RA build I run [skill]Signet of lost souls[/skill] and Feigned Neutrality as my self heals.
Brigand
Lots of good info here for me to digest and try to incorporate into my strategy. Thank you guys for all the responses.
I see a lot of Life Transfer hate, and it seems to be mainly centered around a long recharge time. I should add that a large part of reason I am so fond of it is that it's effective no matter what class I am facing - health return and degen no matter who it's on. This is also a lot of the reason I have been resistant to taking elites which rely on my opponent to do something for it to trigger, such as Spoil Victor. But, in response to overwhelming support to this elite, I am going to try it out. What pushed me over the edge was the post about Feigned Neutrality above. I initially didn't like Feign Neutrality either, as it essentially took me out of the fight for what amounted to essentially the same health return as transfer life, without the extra damage. But...if I could simply slap on Spoil Victor and then activate Feign Neutrality, maybe this is an effective counter to sins. Now if only I could figure out what the hell to do about Shroud of Silence. I HATE that skill with a passion  Thanks again guys! If you have more thoughts, plz post them so I can absorb a little more info about the metagame!
glountz
In your posts brigand you seem to want to counter sins.
But you dislike SV. Some quick scenarios:. Scenario 1: A sin gank you. You casted Life siphon+transfer. Sin unload his combo. You're at -7 degen, deepwounded, stay at +1 regen. HE finishes you. Life transfer ends. You've done to the sin 20hp degen in 5 seconds, so 100 damage. He killed you. He won. Scenario 2 A sin gank you. You put SV and Insidious parasite on his head. Scenario 2a: He unloads his combo. He kills himself, doing something like 65 average damage per attack minus 45 from insidious, 5 attacks, 20*5= 100 HP done to you (+DW poison and bleeding). You won. Scenatio 2b: He does not unload his combo. You continue to hex others ennemies, while he can't do anything until his monk remove his hexes. Unless the said monk has divert hexes, or is not busy countering the damage of your teamates it will take a long time. You won. On a side note: Enfeeble must be put on warriors, not sins. Most damage from sins are +XX damage skills, armor ignoring damage. Enfeeble will hamper a lot more wars than sins. Equally, try to put Faintheartedness on rangers. +50% longer attacks on already quite long refire rates destroy completely their ability to do damage.
Moloch Vein
If you really, REALLY feel the need to counter those lame ass sin builds with Shroud as elite you need only bring Hex Breaker. Of course this requires you to go /Me. However Hex Breaker is very tough on sins because many of their attack chains get messed up if they can't hex you.
Vow of Silence and Shadow Form can be killed by Chiblains. deadkid
dont go hard on life transfer because thee is a reason that life transfer has 30 sec recharge time its a spell that used correctly makes other ppl beg for mercy just echoed it use it again with n/me and then use mesmer degen and interupt hex removal and then cast again both and use black out and start hitting with the staff and you will see how the 10 dmg from staff (20 on 60al) makes the difference and even used correctly you can pwn monks with it in RA i made so many monks telling me im a cheater because of killing then only with life degen
ZenRgy
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadkid
dont go hard on life transfer because thee is a reason that life transfer has 30 sec recharge time its a spell that used correctly makes other ppl beg for mercy just echoed it use it again with n/me and then use mesmer degen and interupt hex removal and then cast again both and use black out and start hitting with the staff and you will see how the 10 dmg from staff (20 on 60al) makes the difference and even used correctly you can pwn monks with it in RA i made so many monks telling me im a cheater because of killing then only with life degen
samcobra
Life transfer is horrible, 'nuff said
deadkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenRgy
I'm not trying to troll but please, for the love of God do not follow this advice for all the reasons stated earlier about life transfer.
im reading your posts around the forum especially necromancer related ones and i see you are not a noob at the game so talking about how life transfer is bad skill is just flaming around because good players can put every skill into good use wich i do and i have been using life transfer for a long time and i dont say it can be used every where and that its the best elite skill that someone can take but telling its a alwful skill means you have never played against me coz life transfer is great regeneration (self heal) same time it puts great pressure on foes and can be combined with dmg spells it doesnt have to be echoed even coz used correctly it can bring you kill every 30 sec wich is not bad in 2 mins arena this makes 4 ills and enemy team has only 4 players wanted to write the exat use of the skill so you can see what im talking about but i dont have time now coz im at work maybe later i will show you how to use it it verry diffcult to hit it in exat time because you have to consider it cant be used for 30 secs but experienced players have instincts about timeing in arenas and its not much of a problem spreading destrucion with it
Stormlord Alex
Please, periods are your friend.
And Life Transfer is still horrible.
hellyea526
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadkid
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The monks that you killed and "called you a cheater" were probably...what, smite monks? 55 monks? The recharge time on LT doesn't really allow it to pressure the opponent at all. One hex removal on LT gets rid of your regen and makes your elite useless for 30 seconds. SV and RM have a much shorter recharge time, making it more spammable and puts more pressure on the monks. SV has the potential to do amazing amounts of damage, especially on melee and monks. RM is amazing in heavy hex builds. LT is amazing at wasting an elite slot, neither putting pressure or dealing enough damage to kill(against decent teams, not like the 55 monks you've obviously been encountering).
Quote:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by deadkid
and start hitting with the staff and you will see how the 10 dmg from staff (20 on 60al) makes the difference
Your dependence on wanding in order to kill someone also makes me laugh.
Please, give up LT and become the "good player" that you proclaim yourself to be. deadkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellyea526
Wow, I feel like puking after reading that post lol. Please learn to spell and use punctuation marks.
The monks that you killed and "called you a cheater" were probably...what, smite monks? 55 monks? The recharge time on LT doesn't really allow it to pressure the opponent at all. One hex removal on LT gets rid of your regen and makes your elite useless for 30 seconds. SV and RM have a much shorter recharge time, making it more spammable and puts more pressure on the monks. SV has the potential to do amazing amounts of damage, especially on melee and monks. RM is amazing in heavy hex builds. LT is amazing at wasting an elite slot, neither putting pressure or dealing enough damage to kill(against decent teams, not like the 55 monks you've obviously been encountering). Your modesty about how good you are because you've used LT for a long time makes me laugh. Your dependence on wanding in order to kill someone also makes me laugh. Please, give up LT and become the "good player" that you proclaim yourself to be. 1st i said that i know that there are better elite skills we all know so your stupid attempt to atack me at this is pointless 2nd i said that to use it you need to interupt the hex removal if you want to do something and atacking me here is even more stupid and lame and 3rd the point of what we are talking about is that how you can put LT to good use not what substitude to use and i know i dont write perfect english i write as much as i know english is not my native language and in matter of fact i writed my posts to help ppl because this is what the forum is all about and i never said im good player because of using LT im good because of trying to use every skill in some good way and make the game more fun not always using the sistems every body know coz they are on intertnet LIKE YOU DO so some 17 year old boys who never had sex LIKE YOU atacking me with stupid stuff and saying i said things wich i never really said because they didnt read or because they are looking to flame at someone because their life sux just pisses me off and if you dont have something to said about the skill different than "LT is crap" SHUT THE HELL UP this forum is to help each other not talking stupid flame
Mitchel
Quote:
Originally Posted by deadkid
1st i said that i know that there are better elite skills we all know so your stupid attempt to atack me at this is pointless
2nd i said that to use it you need to interupt the hex removal if you want to do something and atacking me here is even more stupid and lame and 3rd the point of what we are talking about is that how you can put LT to good use not what substitude to use and i know i dont write perfect english i write as much as i know english is not my native language and in matter of fact i writed my posts to help ppl because this is what the forum is all about and i never said im good player because of using LT im good because of trying to use every skill in some good way and make the game more fun not always using the sistems every body know coz they are on intertnet LIKE YOU DO so some 17 year old boys who never had sex LIKE YOU atacking me with stupid stuff and saying i said things wich i never really said because they didnt read or because they are looking to flame at someone because their life sux just pisses me off and if you dont have something to said about the skill different than "LT is crap" SHUT THE HELL UP this forum is to help each other not talking stupid flame Where to begin, where to begin... Even if English isn't your first language (sure isn't mines), you can still try to capitalize. You say personal attacks are lame, yet you think most people on guru NEVAH HAD SEZZX lawls! Originally Posted by deadkid good players can put every skill into good use wich i do and i have been using life transfer for a long time And what do you write now? "i never said im good player" You are right in the fact that this forum is to help each other, people helped the OP by saying Life Transfer is stinking shit in which they are right. You said you helped him, but all you did is say a stupid skills is good. That isn't helping to me. Oh and I'd really had to laugh about the sex comment and I think we both know who the virgin is between you and me  Oh to make this post a bit helpfull to the OP: Try Reapers Mark and signet of Lost Souls, this way you free up your secondary so you can take Glyp of lesser energy for e-management.
Pwny Ride deadkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchel
Where to begin, where to begin...
Even if English isn't your first language (sure isn't mines), you can still try to capitalize. You say personal attacks are lame, yet you think most people on guru NEVAH HAD SEZZX lawls! Originally Posted by deadkid good players can put every skill into good use wich i do and i have been using life transfer for a long time And what do you write now? "i never said im good player" You are right in the fact that this forum is to help each other, people helped the OP by saying Life Transfer is stinking shit in which they are right. You said you helped him, but all you did is say a stupid skills is good. That isn't helping to me. Oh and I'd really had to laugh about the sex comment and I think we both know who the virgin is between you and me Oh to make this post a bit helpfull to the OP: Try Reapers Mark and signet of Lost Souls, this way you free up your secondary so you can take Glyp of lesser energy for e-management. yeah LT sux is the baddest skill ever i even writed to arena net to delet it from the game LT makes me puke all over my mother for giving me birth and making me see the stupid skill ever and yeah im lame noob i have played GW for like 3 hours top and i never had seen a pussy in my life even i havent seen on tv or on internet and yeah im gay i just come here to flame ppl and screw good threats and i know english but i write crap on purpose and you are the best players in gw yep thats righ you all know everything and stupid lames like me makes the game crap i pollute the world with my stupidity in even trying to help anyone is so stupid coz im dumm as hell are you happy now? now shut the f`ck up and if you have to say anything that is not related to the threat dont even think of writing it keep it to your self or pm it to me so i can deppres how stupid and lame i am deadkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchel
Where to begin, where to begin...
Even if English isn't your first language (sure isn't mines), you can still try to capitalize. You say personal attacks are lame, yet you think most people on guru NEVAH HAD SEZZX lawls! Originally Posted by deadkid good players can put every skill into good use wich i do and i have been using life transfer for a long time And what do you write now? "i never said im good player" You are right in the fact that this forum is to help each other, people helped the OP by saying Life Transfer is stinking shit in which they are right. You said you helped him, but all you did is say a stupid skills is good. That isn't helping to me. Oh and I'd really had to laugh about the sex comment and I think we both know who the virgin is between you and me Oh to make this post a bit helpfull to the OP: Try Reapers Mark and signet of Lost Souls, this way you free up your secondary so you can take Glyp of lesser energy for e-management. and i never said most ppl havent had sex i said the one atacking me havent had sex and this " And what do you write now? "i never said im good player" " read the rest fool i said im not a good player for using lt im good player for trying to use all skills and the sex comment you can shove up your ass coz its so true you cant even belive it and between you and me who is the virgin its hard to say coz im not if you are virgin its lets say 40/60 you are not but still there is a 40% chance that there is a virgin but the one atacking me first defenetly is and i said atack are lame and i wasnt atacking i was defending coz he started the bull shit you are continueing and dont comment here anymore making the threat usssles hope some adamin delete it if you have problems with me pm me
Brigand
Alright, to get things back on track, before they degenerate any further....
Based on the comments I solicited in this thread, I have spent the better part of the last week of my play time with GW trying to make Spoil Victor work - after all, you guys extol its virtues, as do several other thread in these forums. My experiences and thoughts on Spoil Victor so far: I have tried several combination and permutations using this skill, and I have yet to make it work in even a 50-50 sort of way. I have tried combining it with attack debuffs like Price of Victory, or Reckless Haste. I have covered it with throwaway hexes like Parasitic Bond to hamper hex removal. I have altered my other skills to better complement it, including what (at the time) seemed to be a promising build based on a sort of 55 hp monk/necro, where I would almost always have less life than my opponent. I've tried letting them get me to low health, and then popping Mist Form or something similar. Continue these ideas ad nauseum. Regardless of the build, Spoil Victor resulted in the same outcome 9 times out of 10 - the hexed person simply stopped attacking, and waited it out. The instant I had more health than my opponent, it also became ineffective. Essentially, any 'good' player sees the hex pop up on their condition monitor, and simply stops what they are doing. This is undoubtably a good thing, as you are essentially disrupting the flow of their attacks. But, in the end, it doesn't kill them.... Second, as I said above, as soon as I have more health, even 1 hp, it stops working. However, it DOESN'T stop whatever conditions or hexs they've applied in that time. Third is the cast times involved to make it work. Above, several people have said this is pretty effective against 'sins. Sure, it's great against sins attacking other people....but as a defensive measure, it sucks. To be effective, it needs support hex's like Reckless Haste or Price of Failure, and I need to be at low health. By the time I cast Spoil Victor, and a single other 1 or 2 second cast hex (or even self enchant), the sin has already unloaded a huge combo, removing half my health, and loading me up with conditions and hexes. Lastly is the whole low health thing. Sure, I have made this work as a defensive measure, to be sure. But what happens immediately after?? The ele with some sense who is tabbing through targets looking for nice, soft, low health meat simply juices me once and finishes me off. I can't simply heal myself, or my attacker doesn't take damage from it anymore. I should be clear that I do see the potential of this skill, especially in larger scale PvP, such as GvG or AB or the like. But in the small scale PvP arenas, where you can't rely on ANYONE to support you, I am finding the skill to be a liability - it requires too much of my skill bar in support skills to work properly, and, by it's self, doesn't kill anyone, ESPECIALLY if they are attacking me. It just puts us both at low health, and makes it a pittance for someone else to finish me off. Like I said, I appreciate the advice. And I DO feel like there is a lot of potential with the correct support. But for the small scale PvP I am doing, Spoil Victor is just getting me killed. Most players simply know how to handle it. Long recharge or not, Life Transfer at least damages them independent of what they are doing, and heals me, also. The argument about hex removal being a killer for LT is just as valid for SV. Any advice on how to make this work reliably without simply killing myself every time?? deadkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brigand
Alright, to get things back on track, before they degenerate any further....
Based on the comments I solicited in this thread, I have spent the better part of the last week of my play time with GW trying to make Spoil Victor work - after all, you guys extol its virtues, as do several other thread in these forums. My experiences and thoughts on Spoil Victor so far: I have tried several combination and permutations using this skill, and I have yet to make it work in even a 50-50 sort of way. I have tried combining it with attack debuffs like Price of Victory, or Reckless Haste. I have covered it with throwaway hexes like Parasitic Bond to hamper hex removal. I have altered my other skills to better complement it, including what (at the time) seemed to be a promising build based on a sort of 55 hp monk/necro, where I would almost always have less life than my opponent. I've tried letting them get me to low health, and then popping Mist Form or something similar. Continue these ideas ad nauseum. Regardless of the build, Spoil Victor resulted in the same outcome 9 times out of 10 - the hexed person simply stopped attacking, and waited it out. The instant I had more health than my opponent, it also became ineffective. Essentially, any 'good' player sees the hex pop up on their condition monitor, and simply stops what they are doing. This is undoubtably a good thing, as you are essentially disrupting the flow of their attacks. But, in the end, it doesn't kill them.... Second, as I said above, as soon as I have more health, even 1 hp, it stops working. However, it DOESN'T stop whatever conditions or hexs they've applied in that time. Third is the cast times involved to make it work. Above, several people have said this is pretty effective against 'sins. Sure, it's great against sins attacking other people....but as a defensive measure, it sucks. To be effective, it needs support hex's like Reckless Haste or Price of Failure, and I need to be at low health. By the time I cast Spoil Victor, and a single other 1 or 2 second cast hex (or even self enchant), the sin has already unloaded a huge combo, removing half my health, and loading me up with conditions and hexes. Lastly is the whole low health thing. Sure, I have made this work as a defensive measure, to be sure. But what happens immediately after?? The ele with some sense who is tabbing through targets looking for nice, soft, low health meat simply juices me once and finishes me off. I can't simply heal myself, or my attacker doesn't take damage from it anymore. I should be clear that I do see the potential of this skill, especially in larger scale PvP, such as GvG or AB or the like. But in the small scale PvP arenas, where you can't rely on ANYONE to support you, I am finding the skill to be a liability - it requires too much of my skill bar in support skills to work properly, and, by it's self, doesn't kill anyone, ESPECIALLY if they are attacking me. It just puts us both at low health, and makes it a pittance for someone else to finish me off. Like I said, I appreciate the advice. And I DO feel like there is a lot of potential with the correct support. But for the small scale PvP I am doing, Spoil Victor is just getting me killed. Most players simply know how to handle it. Long recharge or not, Life Transfer at least damages them independent of what they are doing, and heals me, also. The argument about hex removal being a killer for LT is just as valid for SV. Any advice on how to make this work reliably without simply killing myself every time?? i think its better to use insidious parasite(for mele) covering it with life siphon for some hex removal protection and take something like backfire for casters(note that backfire has 3 secs cast and the best you can do is take domination staff with two items attribute casting time on it so you can have 40% of the time 1.5 sec cast) and cover it with life syphon again the best use of SV i can think of atm for 4v4 battle is to make a team with two necros in it and the one necro take SV the other AotL and use Arcane Mimicry to take the atol from him so both of you have half the health and half the dmg and he mimicry the SV and you spam it but a team of 4 in wich there are two necros and one monk leaving only one slot for other classes wich doesnt works verry good most of the time but it can be putted to work if builds are made correctly
hellyea526
Deadkid...how old are you? Grow up please. We're talking about Guild Wars, not my personal life and who are you to know anything about my life anyway? Based on our posts in this thread, it is pretty obvious who the more mature one is lol. Also, please stop being a hypocrite, your flaming me complaining about how I flamed you.
On another note, the information your giving in your attempt to help the OP isn't helping him/her. The OP was correct in using parasitic bond as a cover hex, life siphion is a much worse cover hex. I'm not going to even bother talking about the other strategies you were attempting to convey to the OP. To the OP: On your first note, if you are able to shut down one opponent by using one skill(in this case SV) then you can use the rest of your skills to hamper the rest of the opponent team. SV is also very spammable, its duration compared to its recharge time allows you to keep SV up at all times on 2 opponents at the same time. Have you tried casting SV and covering it up with parasitic bond yet? Shutting down a monk can basically decide the outcome of the match. If your having trouble with healing yourself, blood renewal works well with SV in RA. Not only does it give you regen, but the health lost by using it will often put you under your opponent's health therefore activating SV's conditions. If you've been playing RA, understand that you won't be able to counter every build your matched up against and that a lot also depends on your team's builds and how well they mesh with yours.
Brigand
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellyea526
Deadkid...how old are you? Grow up please. We're talking about Guild Wars, not my personal life and who are you to know anything about my life anyway? Based on our posts in this thread, it is pretty obvious who the more mature one is lol. Also, please stop being a hypocrite, your flaming me complaining about how I flamed you.
On another note, the information your giving in your attempt to help the OP isn't helping him/her. The OP was correct in using parasitic bond as a cover hex, life siphion is a much worse cover hex. I'm not going to even bother talking about the other strategies you were attempting to convey to the OP. To the OP: On your first note, if you are able to shut down one opponent by using one skill(in this case SV) then you can use the rest of your skills to hamper the rest of the opponent team. SV is also very spammable, its duration compared to its recharge time allows you to keep SV up at all times on 2 opponents at the same time. Have you tried casting SV and covering it up with parasitic bond yet? Shutting down a monk can basically decide the outcome of the match. If your having trouble with healing yourself, blood renewal works well with SV in RA. Not only does it give you regen, but the health lost by using it will often put you under your opponent's health therefore activating SV's conditions. If you've been playing RA, understand that you won't be able to counter every build your matched up against and that a lot also depends on your team's builds and how well they mesh with yours. You do kind of touch on a good point. Maybe I shouldn't even consider using Spoil Victor as part of a combo, and try and rely on the other person to kill themselves. Maybe I should use it solely to coerce opponents not to cast/attack, and devote the other 7 slots to my build. Maybe SV is good when used completely alone simply as a deterrent. I'll have to give this a little thought, and see what I can do with it tonight. Thx
Stormlord Alex
OP, remember - if you cast SV on something, and they stop attacking, casting magicks/whatever, then... You win. The fact they ain't dead is inconsequential, the fact is, you've reduced them to doing bugger all with a single skill... You've still got a bar full of lovely Curses to kill everyone else.
Pwny Ride
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
OP, remember - if you cast SV on something, and they stop attacking, casting magicks/whatever, then... You win. The fact they ain't dead is inconsequential, the fact is, you've reduced them to doing bugger all with a single skill... You've still got a bar full of lovely Curses to kill everyone else.
Totally true. This is why shutdown is the most powerful thing in PvP (afaik). And what's better you will (not may) come across idiots who will always attack through Spoil Victor, making it all worth the while.
I mean i cant count how many elementalists have kill themselves by trying to cast through backfire. deadkid
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellyea526
Deadkid...how old are you? Grow up please. We're talking about Guild Wars, not my personal life and who are you to know anything about my life anyway? Based on our posts in this thread, it is pretty obvious who the more mature one is lol. Also, please stop being a hypocrite, your flaming me complaining about how I flamed you.
On another note, the information your giving in your attempt to help the OP isn't helping him/her. The OP was correct in using parasitic bond as a cover hex, life siphion is a much worse cover hex. I'm not going to even bother talking about the other strategies you were attempting to convey to the OP. To the OP: On your first note, if you are able to shut down one opponent by using one skill(in this case SV) then you can use the rest of your skills to hamper the rest of the opponent team. SV is also very spammable, its duration compared to its recharge time allows you to keep SV up at all times on 2 opponents at the same time. Have you tried casting SV and covering it up with parasitic bond yet? Shutting down a monk can basically decide the outcome of the match. If your having trouble with healing yourself, blood renewal works well with SV in RA. Not only does it give you regen, but the health lost by using it will often put you under your opponent's health therefore activating SV's conditions. If you've been playing RA, understand that you won't be able to counter every build your matched up against and that a lot also depends on your team's builds and how well they mesh with yours. I said its enough with the personal life stuff. Don`t even bother talking to me for it coz we spammed ( especcialy me) the threat enough. So don`t piss me off again. And i recomended life syphon because he liked using LT and LS is still degen/regen hex but weaker parasitic is still a good cover but LS is good too. And my other systems work well too because i have tested them. The one where two necros i have tested for long time with a friend yester day, and against a team who has weak hex/enchantment removal strategie it pwns like hell in TA. The necros can even tank because if someone is stupid enough to do anything while spammed with SV they die. So we tried a team of two necros, a monk and a assasin. The necro use atol and sv both of them captured with arcane mimicry and life syphon spam again the assasin jump kill monk and then start hitting other foes. Necros equiped with leech signet interupt the ressurection and hopefully kill someone else until enemies ressurect monk. Then kill monk again and then is simply over if the other team dont do anything ( and most cases they dont because they got SV on them but in same time they degen because of LS). The only problem with the system is that arcane mimicry has 60 sec recharge time and the necro wich dont have SV as elite cant use it for a long time. So you have to kill fast or when AM ends thing start to get heavy for your team. |
