The difference between a harmless passtime and a life waster.

Funny because I'm completely the opposite. I simply can't enjoy myself when I know I have other things to do. I play games pretty much every day for a few hours, but I won't even play at all if I'm busy/stressed. But then again I look at it as not an escape but as a competitive hobby(against both other players and myself)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with playing a computer game for 1 or 2 hours a night. It helps you unwind after work or university or a stressfull day.

But that is provided you are doing other activities aside from just computer games, including socialising with real people in one way or another!

If your entire life revolves around a computer game and you never leave the house except to work, school or shop then you have issues. Its great having a hobby and enjoying something, but if it pushes you to the point of being anti-social then its not good for you.

I know people who say to me "playing an online game is socialising", and their right. I enjoy chatting to others ingame and playing missions along side them.

But you cant compare actual face-to-face contact with messaging someone inside a computer game.

If you never leave the house, and you have very little face-to-face contact with others, you dont learn how to interact on a normal level. Your only learning curve on how to talk to others is through online chat. You dont learn about emotions or facial expressions correctly.

You will also most likely start to think that most people in the world are immature, because (and its true) most people inside online games are immature and behave in ways they wouldnt normall in person.

Most people wouldnt go to their local pub, and shout "noob" into the face of a bloke at the bar. They would get linches and kicked black and blue!

So you are more likely to see anti-social behaviour online then you are in person, because people cant be caught!

As with any hobby, it has to be well-balanced with a social life, work and education! You have to have experiences outside of the house, otherwise you end up living in a dream world where you think everyone speaks in l33t talk and acts like children.

Even if its just having people over to your house, to drink and hang-out and play games together. Its alot more healthy to have people around you in real-life then to rely on ingame chat for friends.

enjoyment. Tell me, is working all your life for a government that doesn't even work well a good life? As long as you have fun, it's never a waste.

Then why did you come back? Do you miss it afterall? Or do you just think it would be fun to post some crap telling what we can and cannot do with our lives? Your the one sounds like they have no life.

This pretty much hits the mark. As long as ur not letting it take over your life and its not harming anyone then who are they to tell you what is acceptable with your spare time.

As someone else also mentioned Gw is no more or less educational that any other medium (books, Tv etc. etc.), this is very true. Like other medium you can get fictional games like GW or factual games like Age of Empires in which you not only play but you learn about History.

I think you hit the nail on the head here with "socially acceptable". When it comes to hobbies, is there are global conduct of rules and regulations that defines internationally "socially acceptable" hobbies? Playing an instrument? Sure, if you play a guitar or drums... but I have a (male) friend who used to play the clarinet, and he still gets to hear stuff like "Can't you play a real instrument, like guitar?" Who defines socially acceptable anyway? The Cool Guys' Hobbies Guidebook?

I'm gonna sound like a Life Goes On character here, but sometimes you just have to do what you find fun, even though others might think it's not cool, wise or "socially acceptable". I listen to a lot of J-Pop and J-Rock and watch anime series, which confuses some of my friends, who can't understand the greatness of "cartoons", but heck, should I stop just because of that? I don't think so.

Now, this has gone very far from the original gaming approach. And I admit, too much gaming isn't very healthy. (I get sore eyes if I play even 2 hours straigth, which I usually don't.) But if you talk about "talent", I could add that language skills are a very large part of what gaming has helped me with. I, as a non-native english speaker (originally from Finland), have been watching TV shows and playing games all my youth. And it has helped my language skills immensely. I've always been good with languages and now I have a job dealing with translating English. So that's one point for games, but only if you're willing to learn - which of course can be said about anything else too.

I don't really know what's my point or what I'm babbling on about here. But I do know that I've had a few people telling me to "get a life", instead of sitting in front of the computer so much. And I don't even play that much - but I do listen to music, watch movies and series and work on my digital art with my computer. Using traditional, non-computer methods too.

The whole "get a life" - argument isn't even as big as it was some years ago, maybe 6-9 or so. Back then, only us geeks had a computer. Then everyone started to have one, but they still gave us geeks a hard time! Nowadays so many things are done with computers that PC use is a skill everyone simply must handle.

Well, I'm going to turn the initial statement around.
I just ended a very troublesome relationship with my fiancee.
We had been together for about 8 years and from the start had some minor problems.
Not long in the relation my fiancee started to have more serious problems.
She has suffered from back-problems on and off, causing sleeping problems and leaving office at unexpected times for me.
The past 5 years, she also suffered from panic attacks.
She had a day-time job, but when she had an attack there, I was the one that could pick her up and bring her home, since she was too afraid to do so.
Lucky for me, I have a very understanding employer, who allowed me to do what needed to be done.
The panic attacks are almost over now, with good therapy.

I can easily say that this set of problems caused me to spend more than 2 hours a day.
That also includes too little sleep, doing allmost all household things alone, skipping work or leaving early and almost destroying the little social life I had.

However, people generally do not regard this 'childish and obsessed', but more like 'mature and responsible'
I could label this "A waste of life, where I just threw away the best years of my lives, doing stupid things in real life."

As you can see, it's all in the eye of the beholder.

I'm happy that I have the possibility to play games, just to forget (for a while) about the *&^%$ real-life can also be.
I think that without games I would not be sitting here writing this, but in a total different and worse situation.

As far as the ever present "get a life" is concerned I've long come to a conclusion...

They see life as a buffet, a variety pack, etc. It's like they're searching for something and for some reason can't comprehend that there are people out there who have already found what they enjoy, or their calling, etc. They cannot tolerate doing one thing for an extended period of time. They get bored. They see you doing a lot of one thing and think something is wrong with you, when in reality it's much more likely something is wrong with them.

Look at all the greats in our society/movies/etc. Sports stars, scientists, secret agents, super heroes, political figures, millionaires, etc. These are all people who are very devoted to what they do. Yet they aren't criticized for being overzealous...

" I talked to a person today who became incredible shocked that I told her that I play about 2 hours of video games every day. She called me childish and obsessed. I tried to explain to her that there are people who play much more than me, but she still thought that I was extreme."

Dont feel ashamed at all.....and relax she is a "square" person, short minded and jealous.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game

" Known to have been played as far back as prehistoric times, games are a universal part of the human culture."

My parents and grandparents introduced me to games - like most of you - very early LOL I still play and hope to be able to play when I am 99...and even more

My father is a teacher and plays regularly to BRIDGE, a very interesting & difficult card game, he even makes tournaments:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contract_bridge

My grandfather was often playing card game and every sunday after high mass, he was leaving the church to meet his mates in a café....for playing cards.....

A video game is a game like all the existing others.

What about chess players and all the others gamers ? according to The Person you talked to, they are childish and obsessed. I dont mind and they dont mind to be treated such a way. We have fun......and we make work our grey cells

Dont worry, be happy and keep on gaming.....

Yeah that's me. But my work is social. I work with children(age 5-7) in an afterschool elementry thing, so I interacte alot with parents coming to for their kids each day, and I hang around with the kids too. I only work 26 hours, but its a good job. The co-workers are nice and down to earth and relaxed and the boss is nice to me.

But yeah, besides gaming I don't have any goals or hobbies(outside movies and anime). I only use my money on food and games, and sometimes a DVD. That's it.

I live in my brothers basement, in his house. I am 20 years old, and it's him and his wife that are concerned about me.

I'll tell them that I am just a loner. They tell me that video games is a waste of time, and that sitting in the basement playing all the time(or surfing the net or watching movies) when im not working is a waste of what they call my "best years".

My brother thinks im incredible weird. He does not understand why I am not a partydude, who goes out every friday and saturday, getting hammered, smoking weed, and trying to get laid.



Your first paragraph is correct in my case. I feel exactly that way about other people my age(or younger). But im not sure if that cause, is what you describe. I just dont like other people my age because almost all of them I have met are shallow people who just can't relax. Who need to drink to have fun. who would rather dance on a disco to techno music and look like an idiot chicken that is having a seizure, instead of sitting on a restaurant or a cafee like a regular non-uptight adult who dont have to be something they are not.

I like +25 aged people much better. They seem more real and more down to earth to me. Im incredible shy around people my own age, and I feel a combination more maturity compared to them, and a feel of inferiority because I cant make myself go out there and just drink my brains out like any other "normal 20 year old".



_____


I don't know. My brother is materialistic(and admits it) and he says to me: "you are 20 years old! What do you got to show for yourself? NOTHING! You don't got any social life, you don't got your own apartment, you dont have any money in your bank account, you cant play an instrument, your not good at sport, your not educating yourself reading books(which he says trains the brain. He wants me to read fantasy books instead of playing fantasy games. He says it will stimulate my brain more", your overweight, you use all your time in front of the computer. When I was 20 years old...".


I can't really blame my brother. He is really awesome and a tough dude. He got kicked out of his house when he was 12, and sent to boarding school. When he had become 16, he had already spent a year as a exchange student in Florida, and in Switzerland, so he had alot of life experiences. Our dad was a drunk, so he had to take care of himself most of the time.


I got the chance to move into his basement because he thought it would help me, grow.


Of course I tell him, that I am just a loner, and just am the way I am. I like video games. I know a ton of things about the guys who make them, and the industry, and its a big part of what I do in my sparetime.


Though I dont think that I am using GW as a social network. I never got into any good guild with many active players, never got into the pvp either, so its not a place where im hanging for friends. sure I visit some forums, which gives me a kind(I guess) of social contact, but im not blind to the fact that outside of work I am very reserved.


My brother of course things im a freak. He says that humans are social creatures, and that I will go nuts, if I dont get love, respect and empathy from friends and female partners. He says that I cant be a nhialistic monk who ponders on the world and just keeps to himself. He cant accept that I just frankly feel like being alone.


I don't get it. Why is it that unpopular choices in life, always is interputered as wrong by other people? My brother litterly went out and told me straight to mouth that he said that I should be more like other people. See how other people dress, see how other people do for hobbies and what their interests are. For example I dont have any interests in sports or cars, like most males in their 20s do. I only know about video games... and movies. I dont get that. I am me, why am I living in a "wrong way" just because im not doing what the other guys do?


But on the other hand, I do feel kind of abnormal, making a thread like this on a forum, because it suggests that I dont have any other people to talk to, and thats true. I dont. But even if I did had some people, none of them would probably be able to understand, because almost no people I have ever meet, are gamers.
Gaming is just not very big in my country.

That's a good thing, as far as I care, normal is just another word for boring, dull, nothing special, just another nobody.

As most people in this thread have said, its all about the healthy balance of real life activities and virtual ones. As I don't wish to simply regurgitate what they said, I'll move on to another point.
While it is true that participating in an activity such as learning to play an instrument is very rewarding, very difficult(and with a very long learning curve), it is not true that video games are useless.

Studies have shown(don't ask me to quote, but it was all over the news a couple years back. I'm sure I could find a source if I tried hard enough) that people that play video games have better hand/eye coordination and tend to have quicker reflexes. As for being 'socially acceptable', that's slowly developing, but it is possible to make a living off of it. There are even television shows dedicated to showcasing professional gamers (Arena on G4).
Personally, strategy games and other rts (think simcity,simtower) are great tools for thinking.

Strategy games have taught me most of what I know about military strategy, time and money management, and simple organization. Historical rts games reminded me about the past, and often allowed me to catch the games mistakes/'deviations into poetic license'. And this was all between the ages of 13 and 18, when I played 1 hour a day, one day a week during the school year. If I was lucky, I got to play more during the summer on rainy days.

Role playing games are an interactive version of the books I love to read (I've literally read more books than your average librarian.), and are great for fostering creativity. I'm mildly into role-playing, and I've allowed each of my characters to develop a minor backstory. I've also done some minor fan fiction of GW, and it was a fun writing challenge to work a person into the fabric of events GW sets out.

As for 'where the worst losers and outcasts can feel, though virtual, success', there will always be those that immerse themselves too deeply into video games. I can only hope they've got friends/family to pull them out. Those same people can't really be called losers, because if they put that same effort into any other activity, you'd be lauding them as geniuses. I've put a mere 1000 hours into GW over the past 2 years. There are perfectly normal people on this forum that can easily double that in a quarter of the time. I wish they too would find a greater outlet for their energy, but who am I to say such things when they are happy and healthy? How they enjoy themselves is their prerogative, withholding, of course, an unhealthy attitude towards it.

While I agree there isn't much good in TV nowadays, if you look for the good in something you will find it. If you look only for the bad, it will pop up too. When I see a game like GW I see a game where I can play with unpredictable people. I love offline multiplayer games for the same reason. It isn't as satisfying to me as talking to someone on the phone(just as I prefer face to face to the phone), but it is a form of social interaction. As long as it isn't your only social activity, its fine(imo).

But that's just my two cents

But from experience you cant deny that almost 90% of people ingame are immature, compared to a smaller percentage in the real world.

The reason being that a high % of ingame players are teenagers and young kids who dont know how to interact in the real world. They have no experience of speaking to real people, or they get some sick pleasure from pretending to be someone their not.

But in the real world, people cant pretend! They have to respect your feelings, and behave or you just walk off.

I do know how you feel!

Im 25 next month, and I went to University with people who were ranging from 18-23 and the ones who had just come out from college or highschool were still making "gay" comments and jokes.

Even when I was in highschool. I never liked the laddish attitudes either, but thats part of being young! But im 25 now and I drink with my mates and I talk about sex... but not in a grose kind of way!

Most people at a young age are idiots, until they realise they dont need to drink, smoke, drive fast cars and sleep around to be cool!

Most of my mates are girls though, because I dont like that laddish attitude! I dont like being around drunk blokes who want to talk about what lass you would shag! If I talk about sex, its in an intelligent way!

Its all about hanging out with the right people, with the same mentality and likes and wants!

There is nothing wrong with drinking though, aslong as you dont turn into a drunk idiot as a result of it and start being obnoxious! There is nothing wrong with talking about sex aslong as its not crude.

The problem though is that because young teenagers have trouble finding real friends, they resort to playing online games to find people they feel better around. But they arent real people.

Their some stranger, who they only know by a handle who could be lieing about who they are.

All I can say it stick at it! Being a teenager and being young, and discover who you are is part of life. You will meet people you like and dislike throughout your life, whether you be 18 or 25.

Aslong as you dont fall to peer pressure and you be yourself, and you dont feel intimidating into hiding away from society you will be fine.

Online games become a worry when young people resort to playing them, because their scare of life. Their shy or their quite. They dont know how to behave around the opposite sex, or people dont "get them".

But even if its hard, its best to try and learn and find poeple you can be yourself around. If your mates annoy you or you dont want to copy them, then dont or find new friends!

One hard lesson you will learn, is that sometimes you have to move on from people. And its better loose friends who arent a good influence, then to stick around and fall to peer pressure.

My only other comment is be carefull if you hang around people who are older then you!

If your a girl, you could get influenced into doing stuff you shouldnt!
If your a guy, you could feel under ALOT of pressure to do adult stuff to be cool!

Its best to stick more or less aroudn your own age, until you know who you are! But people shouldnt resort to playing games 24/7 because their shy or quite and cant handle the real world.

If someone feels that need, then their friends should come help them and incourage them to socialise.

behold the teenager.

Sorry I missed the top part....

...from what you have described there. I would say you do need to find a different activity away from your brothers basement and from work!

Sorry if it sounds like im agreeing with your brother.

Its great you work with kids and it sounds a fullfilling job, but your not really socialising with people your own age, or alot of people your own age.

Im sure you work around other adults and teacher, but it cant be alot compared to the overwhelming number of kids!

When I talked about having a healthy balance of a hobby, working, shopping and socialising. I also meant you need to socialising with others outside of work too!

You work because you have to, to make a wage and live. So its not really something your doing completely because you want to!

My idea of socialising is something you choose to do, to unwind and chill you! Meeting mates down the pub, or the club, or the park or having a party or even inviting people round to play games with you.

I accept your (as you call it) a loner and you must like your privacy. But it cant be healthy to have your only out-of-game socialising being restricted to a few adults and some noisy kids?

Do you not just wish you could meet the lads and go to the pub and sit drinking a pint?

I'm currently on a work placement which I finish in 2 weeks! I've been off uni for about 12 months and hardlt see any of my mates in that time.

I play GWs about 2 hours a night regardless of what im doing, but if I have the chance I would much rather be out the house.

But ive spent the last 12 months mostly in my room playing games, due to personal reason and certain friends falling out with me.,

Im at a point where im GAGGING to get back to Uni to see friends, and sit in the union and just chill with a pint talking about music and films and rubbish.

I just think everyone needs a daily or weekly dose of some socialising, away from work, away from the computer, away from the shops! Otherwise you dig yourself into a hole, into a rut and you cant get out.

Do you like the idea of spending the next few years spending most of your time in your brothers basement, or would you rather be outside given the chance?

I cant imagine you like that idea!

Well... I get up quite early, go to work for 9 hours, then get home, cook, eat, then play GW for 9 hours then goto sleep. Why shouldnt I enjoy myself for just as long as I work for?

Dude your 20 enjoy life, if playing video games are something you enjoy doing do it.

There is a balance between wasting time and being productive. If, like so many have stated, you work, pay the bills, and have free time to spare then spending a few hours a day wasting time.

We all need some down time to unwind from our daily grind. For me and most of you on this board it involves playing GW a few hours a day. It is a hobby more or less. Hobbies are time wasters no mater what that hobby might be. Our hobby is playing video games.

People who don't play video games don't get it. To them it is a waste to spend 2 hours a day playing, while it is fine to spend 2 hours of the day watching TV, surfing the net, or name any hobby.

My wife and I have friends who constantly dump on me because I "waste" time playing a game a few hours a day, but it is not the same, according to them, when I point out that he spends twice as much time surfing the net every day.

So take others opinions with a grain of salt because no mater what we all waste time in our own ways.

As long as you are enjoying it your not wasting your life.

I mean whats better in your life than fun ?

100% correct. And I enjoy it.

As for you, behold the boring, normal, midlife crisis man.

MY opinion on this..I really enjoy the fun I had playing video games, but when it comes to taking my SAT's this year i know i'll wish I studied more instead of played GvG. I guess this mentality can be applied to more than just tests.

Telling someone else what they should and shouldn't be doing with their time, and making value judgements about their life, is possibly the most offensive and pointless thing that someone could say to you.

"Computer games are a waste of life" - when someone says this, I reply
"No-one's forcing YOU to play them. So kindly leave the rest of us alone."

I want to understand just when video entertainment crossed into the 'socially unacceptable' category, while spending endless hours in the pub or in front of the TV are considered acceptable. In fact, no-one complains about other people reading Harry Potter, do they? But that takes hours, it's something you do our your own, shutting you off from the world, it's all fantasy/made-up and not even educational. So why is that acceptable and computer gaming unacceptable.

The argument "I do not enjoy this activity so other people should not do it" is just frankly so illogical and stupid it's beneath contempt.

Some things in favour of PC gaming:

- It's cheap (cost of 1000 hours of guild wars = 1 meal in a restaurant)
- Your wife/husband/family know where you are (i.e. not stealing cars)
- It doesn't affect your health (unlike beer, drugs)
- It doesn't affect your sanity (unlike gambling)
- You don't get injured (think football, rugby)
- Success in video games helps build your self-esteem just like success in any activity

People that say you shouldn't do an activity when:-

- You enjoy it
- You are good at it

...are like those idiots in the film Billy Eliott saying that he shouldn't do ballet.

How about everyone does what they enjoy and are good at and not what other people tell them they should be doing.