Several times today I've noticed in the trade centers of GW, being usually district 1 of Lion's Arch, Kaineng Center, and Kamadan, a scam that involves 2 people, usually either friends or guildies. One offers either a large sum of money, or something like a Miniature Kuunavang / Lich, for a certain item. The other, sells that certain item for an obscene amount of money. The purpose of this being to bait someone into buying the item, and then unsuccessfully being able to trade it for the higher priced item. Not sure if this is a 'scam' per se, as it's reliant on someone's greed, but the sheer number of them occuring is very misleading to most people.
One example was: Someone wished to trade a Miniature Kuunavang for a Miki's Staff (http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Miki%27s_Staff). While another person, attempted to sell Miki's Staff in the same district, for 30k. Anyone with a decent sense would know that a Shing Jea green is never going to be worth that much, but the aspect of greed would make them buy it to trade for the Kuunavang.
I wasn't sure if this was the correct section of the forums to post this in, and I am just wanting people to be aware of this kind of incident and be careful. I checked Wiki, and it's not listed under common scams (yet).
Obviously without naming names, has anyone been experiencing this recently?
Recent 'Greed' Scams
Omega Finale
TheRaven
I've personally never seen that in town, but I may not have noticed even if I did. I have seen many many forum posts though describing this exact scam so this isn't something new. I believe Temple of Ages is a common spot for the scammers to try it.
...and guess it's definitely falls under the "scam" category.
...and guess it's definitely falls under the "scam" category.
Diddy bow
I saw this as well Exact same as yours but with a bow...(soz about crappy edit..)
Still the kind of people who make money trading probs wont fall for it as its so obviously a scam, but still....
wow that edit rly was crappy... this one is better =D
Still the kind of people who make money trading probs wont fall for it as its so obviously a scam, but still....
wow that edit rly was crappy... this one is better =D
fenix
You have to be pretty retarded to fall for that, you know why? THEY COULD JUST TRADE WITH EACH OTHER AND BE PERFECTLY HAPPY.
Xenex Xclame
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Common_scams/Trade_scams
Deferred Trades
Another variant of this scam is where one player says something along the lines of "WTB: Ecto 15k". His partner is nearby, deliberately ignoring him, and advertising "WTS: Ecto 10k". Even though the price of the ecto is too high, there is a 5k profit to be made from trading the ecto between them. If you buy from the first player you'll find yourself in a sticky situation as they both log off suddenly, leaving you several thousand gold down (depending on ecto prices). The most dangerous part of this is that it is not considered a scam by ArenaNet.
Deferred Trades
Another variant of this scam is where one player says something along the lines of "WTB: Ecto 15k". His partner is nearby, deliberately ignoring him, and advertising "WTS: Ecto 10k". Even though the price of the ecto is too high, there is a 5k profit to be made from trading the ecto between them. If you buy from the first player you'll find yourself in a sticky situation as they both log off suddenly, leaving you several thousand gold down (depending on ecto prices). The most dangerous part of this is that it is not considered a scam by ArenaNet.
Roshi_ikkyu
Its not considered a scam because,
Person A is offering a price for his item, 30k. You don't have to buy his item but that's how much he wants. He has clearly asked for 30k for it. If you choose to trade u know your getting the item for 30k.
Its not a scam.
Person B apart from attempting to influence your interest in the sale isn't doing anything actively wrong.
They are still offering an item for a trade, they might even offer a price that its equal to.
Now if you think that is a scam ID a green sometime, you'll see the listed price is 1/10 the player trade price.
Person A is offering a price for his item, 30k. You don't have to buy his item but that's how much he wants. He has clearly asked for 30k for it. If you choose to trade u know your getting the item for 30k.
Its not a scam.
Person B apart from attempting to influence your interest in the sale isn't doing anything actively wrong.
They are still offering an item for a trade, they might even offer a price that its equal to.
Now if you think that is a scam ID a green sometime, you'll see the listed price is 1/10 the player trade price.
Big_Iron
Whether or not you consider these people scammers, they're still low-life bottom feeders that should have their toes smashed with a ball pin hammer.
EDIT--> No, I've never been scammed, so I'm not bitter. I just hate scum that take advantage of people.
EDIT--> No, I've never been scammed, so I'm not bitter. I just hate scum that take advantage of people.
Sarah Frost
You could try giving Person B what they ask for (provided you have the item)... they'll either ignore you, leave, make up lame excuses... or be forced to make the deal they promised. Make sure to get Screen Caps before during and after the trade.
Then it's up to ANet's Justice to prevail... report the Scammer (Person B) though Person A will get away free.
Then it's up to ANet's Justice to prevail... report the Scammer (Person B) though Person A will get away free.
onerabbit
i was completly shocked to see some1 trading a mini kun for a Flints wand then seeing some1 selling a flints wand for 30k...
was so confused lol ..
was so confused lol ..
SlyClone
This is clearly a scam aimed at Re-Sellers and unexperienced buyers.
Most likely same person using 2 computers and 2 different accounts to accomplish this type of scam.
Anet will find a way to crack down on these.
Never fall for these. The person behind this scam should be reported and banned. And because he uses 2 accounts, BOTH accounts should be banned.
Most likely same person using 2 computers and 2 different accounts to accomplish this type of scam.
Anet will find a way to crack down on these.
Never fall for these. The person behind this scam should be reported and banned. And because he uses 2 accounts, BOTH accounts should be banned.
SlyClone
god I dislike Guru server. Double Post FTL
Omniclasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sarah Frost
You could try giving Person B what they ask for (provided you have the item)... they'll either ignore you, leave, make up lame excuses... or be forced to make the deal they promised. Make sure to get Screen Caps before during and after the trade.
Then it's up to ANet's Justice to prevail... report the Scammer (Person B) though Person A will get away free. |
While I am extremely against scamming, this scam is rather interesting. However, the moral of the story is the same. If it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Don't try to make easy money when someone else is involved because they are most likely making easy money off of you.
VanDamselx
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Originally Posted by fenix
You have to be pretty retarded to fall for that, you know why? THEY COULD JUST TRADE WITH EACH OTHER AND BE PERFECTLY HAPPY.
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They're not intending to really trade the Kuuna for the staff.
Hexum
I have seen this many times. I just whisper one of them and give them the name of the other guy who is trading or selling, letting them know they have the item he/she is looking for. ROFL.
Gli
It's a very clumsy version of a classic 2 man scam: the fiddle game. It was old before Al Gore invented the internet.
korcan
i wouldnt consider these types of people "scammers" but rather ingenious traders.
if you consider these people "scammers" then all power traders would also be considered "scammers".
most power traders take advantage of people who dont know prices to make a profit these people are simply exploiting greed to make a profit. whats worse? if anything, id say exploiting noobs for profit is worse then exploiting greed.
if you consider these people "scammers" then all power traders would also be considered "scammers".
most power traders take advantage of people who dont know prices to make a profit these people are simply exploiting greed to make a profit. whats worse? if anything, id say exploiting noobs for profit is worse then exploiting greed.
Gli
Someone is making an offer he isn't planning to honor, with the express purpose of tricking someone into handing over money.
It's a scam.
It's a good one when it works, because it's very hard to make charges stick, but it is a scam. The trick is to find a sucker to fall for it. Since there's one born every minute, as the saying goes, I bet they're making good virtual money.
It's a scam.
It's a good one when it works, because it's very hard to make charges stick, but it is a scam. The trick is to find a sucker to fall for it. Since there's one born every minute, as the saying goes, I bet they're making good virtual money.
Omniclasm
The thing is though, the people getting "scammed" are trying to take advantage of people. If they weren't greedy, they would just whisper one person and say the other person has what they are looking for. If they are greedy and want to take advantage of the buyer/seller's fake ignorance, then they lose out. It is people taking advantage of someone trying to take advantage of them.
Onarik Amrak
It's nothing new, but something like this happened to me a long time ago, but with opposite effects.
I was in Drok's back when it was spam central because of the troll farmers and such. I saw someone spamming trade chat for a Bone Dragon at a fairly high price (100k+40e). At the same time I saw someone selling one for 100k+20e.
I took the opportunity to sell my Bone Dragon (which I bought a couple of weeks ago) and then picked up the cheaper one for a 20e profit.
I was in Drok's back when it was spam central because of the troll farmers and such. I saw someone spamming trade chat for a Bone Dragon at a fairly high price (100k+40e). At the same time I saw someone selling one for 100k+20e.
I took the opportunity to sell my Bone Dragon (which I bought a couple of weeks ago) and then picked up the cheaper one for a 20e profit.
Roshi_ikkyu
I'm just going to say it one last time, [b]It's not a scam![b]
If it was every single power-selller/trader would be considered a scammer. Hell we all want to get an iten for cheaper then the market value and resell.
Reporting them won't do anything, there providing a price for an item. if u pay that price you agree to a trade.
The other player is just attempting to raise the price, but within the rules and regs of GW he is still trading in a legal manner. He offers an item for a trade, you now what your getting if he trade or not is his choice.
Problem is you can't prove there working together, u going to report every trade who is asking a inflated price? Or just the one selling something people are asking for?
No its not
You won't get any charges to stick... Why cause its not a scam, apart from 2 different people suggesting a trade there not scamming people out of there money.
You get a price, and an item. And with the second person u get trade item for your item.
The market price for greens are purley palyer based.
How about not being a idiot and attempting to profit from the misfortune of others.
Anyone falling for the 2seller scams is trying to rip one person of, there just as bad as the first pair of seller.
If it was every single power-selller/trader would be considered a scammer. Hell we all want to get an iten for cheaper then the market value and resell.
Reporting them won't do anything, there providing a price for an item. if u pay that price you agree to a trade.
The other player is just attempting to raise the price, but within the rules and regs of GW he is still trading in a legal manner. He offers an item for a trade, you now what your getting if he trade or not is his choice.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
Someone is making an offer he isn't planning to honor, with the express purpose of tricking someone into handing over money.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
It's a scam.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
It's a good one when it works, because it's very hard to make charges stick, but it is a scam.
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You get a price, and an item. And with the second person u get trade item for your item.
The market price for greens are purley palyer based.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
The trick is to find a sucker to fall for it. Since there's one born every minute, as the saying goes, I bet they're making good virtual money.
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Anyone falling for the 2seller scams is trying to rip one person of, there just as bad as the first pair of seller.
fenix
Quote:
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Originally Posted by booooYA
That's really not the point Fenix. By doing this they're hoping some bloke will go, "Wow for 30k I can get a Kuunavang." You trade 30k for the weapon and both of them leave. I assume they split the profit and try it elsewhere.
They're not intending to really trade the Kuuna for the staff. |
ShadowsRequiem
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu
I'm just going to say it one last time, [b]It's not a scam![b]
Anyone falling for the 2seller scams is trying to rip one person of, there just as bad as the first pair of seller. |
MORAL OF THE STORY:
IF its too good to be true, its a scam.
Chthon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu
Its not considered a scam because,
Person A is offering a price for his item, 30k. You don't have to buy his item but that's how much he wants. He has clearly asked for 30k for it. If you choose to trade u know your getting the item for 30k. Its not a scam. Person B apart from attempting to influence your interest in the sale isn't doing anything actively wrong. |
It is a scam. Both Person A and Person B have conspired to mislead their victim as to the value of the item. Depending on the variant of the scam, EITHER they are implicitly saying "the general market price of item X is Y, so you can resell it on the general market for Y" knowing that this implied assertion is false, OR they are explicitly saying "an item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and I'm willing to pay Y for item X," when they never had any intent to pay their advertised price. In either case, they are lying. In either case, they have the intent to induce someone to rely upon their false statements. In either case, the false statements are material enough to the heart of the deal that the deal only happens if someone believes the false statements they have made. That's common law fraud -- and that's always a "scam" by any reasonable definition of the word. Period.
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Problem is you can't prove there working together... You won't get any charges to stick... |
Loviatar
[QUOTE]
wrong
they are looking for a scammer who carries big bucks right on them who knows the real value of the other item is vastly higher.
the so called victem knows what it is worth and stumbles over himself to be first in line to trade the item for the minipet/whatever.
the so called victem is trying to scam the mini kuuna for a 30k item.
a normal noob doesnt carry/have cash like that to begin with
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Originally Posted by Chthon
BULLSHIT!
In either case, they are lying. In either case, they have the intent to induce someone to rely upon their false statements. |
they are looking for a scammer who carries big bucks right on them who knows the real value of the other item is vastly higher.
the so called victem knows what it is worth and stumbles over himself to be first in line to trade the item for the minipet/whatever.
the so called victem is trying to scam the mini kuuna for a 30k item.
a normal noob doesnt carry/have cash like that to begin with
TheLichMonky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chthon
BULLSHIT!
It is a scam. Both Person A and Person B have conspired to mislead their victim as to the value of the item. Depending on the variant of the scam, EITHER they are implicitly saying "the general market price of item X is Y, so you can resell it on the general market for Y" knowing that this implied assertion is false, OR they are explicitly saying "an item is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and I'm willing to pay Y for item X," when they never had any intent to pay their advertised price. In either case, they are lying. In either case, they have the intent to induce someone to rely upon their false statements. In either case, the false statements are material enough to the heart of the deal that the deal only happens if someone believes the false statements they have made. That's common law fraud -- and that's always a "scam" by any reasonable definition of the word. Period. |
Sirus Dibley
What a cheekly little scam that is. It's almost like Oliver Twist's fagan has set up shop in Lions Arch.
You've got too pick a pocket or two !
You've got too pick a pocket or two !
Gli
People, this is a scam.
This is a very famous type of con that's been run for decades in the real world, if not centuries. It even has several names, like "Glim-dropper" and "fiddle game". There is literature about this type of scam. The trick is to appeal to another person's greed. Tricking an immoral person out of his money is no less a scam than tricking an innocent. If you think this isn't a scam, you have no idea what the word scam means. Famous conmen in history have pulled this off for large amounts of real money, and bragged about it.
The confusion probably arises from the fact that it is a good scam. Any scam that can leave bystanders or even the victim wondering if a scam has been pulled, is a good scam. If it can even leave the authorities powerless to intervene, it's a great scam. But how can there be any doubt? Two people conspiring to trick other people out of money, that's a scam. Period.
I saw people running this scam with a "Gordac's Holy Rod for 50k" and a "Bone Dragon minipet for Gordac's Holy Rod". I bet they didn't just try to sell 1 rod. They probably bought a load of them for a few plats a piece, and they're probably laughing all the way to the bank.
This is a very famous type of con that's been run for decades in the real world, if not centuries. It even has several names, like "Glim-dropper" and "fiddle game". There is literature about this type of scam. The trick is to appeal to another person's greed. Tricking an immoral person out of his money is no less a scam than tricking an innocent. If you think this isn't a scam, you have no idea what the word scam means. Famous conmen in history have pulled this off for large amounts of real money, and bragged about it.
The confusion probably arises from the fact that it is a good scam. Any scam that can leave bystanders or even the victim wondering if a scam has been pulled, is a good scam. If it can even leave the authorities powerless to intervene, it's a great scam. But how can there be any doubt? Two people conspiring to trick other people out of money, that's a scam. Period.
I saw people running this scam with a "Gordac's Holy Rod for 50k" and a "Bone Dragon minipet for Gordac's Holy Rod". I bet they didn't just try to sell 1 rod. They probably bought a load of them for a few plats a piece, and they're probably laughing all the way to the bank.
whitedragon
Hmm if it is a scam (and i think it is) and if you think someone should be banned then all three should be banned. Person A person B and person C
All are clearly trying to make extra profit. Person A and person B for there part
and person C for (C) hopes that (B) dont see (A) asking for what (Bs) got.
So (C) is trying to scam (B)
All are clearly trying to make extra profit. Person A and person B for there part
and person C for (C) hopes that (B) dont see (A) asking for what (Bs) got.
So (C) is trying to scam (B)
Seraphic Divinity
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Originally Posted by korcan
i wouldnt consider these types of people "scammers" but rather ingenious traders.
if you consider these people "scammers" then all power traders would also be considered "scammers". most power traders take advantage of people who dont know prices to make a profit these people are simply exploiting greed to make a profit. whats worse? if anything, id say exploiting noobs for profit is worse then exploiting greed. |
qft
I have to admit, that's a pretty ingenius idea of them :P
although, it would be considered spam on the part of the person trading the Kuuna and spam is not tolerated.
If you don't think its considered spam then I'll get 100+alliance friends to go to AD1 Kamadan and have them all say "Selling Mini Gwen 10k" in trade chat, that's the equivalent of what he's doing, therefore the person trading the kuunavang is breaching EULA and deserves to be banned.
Gli
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Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu
I'm just going to say it one last time, [b]It's not a scam!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu
Anyone falling for the 2seller scams is trying to rip one person of, there just as bad as the first pair of seller.
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Confused much? Make up your mind.
Seraphic Divinity
Quote:
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Originally Posted by korcan
i wouldnt consider these types of people "scammers" but rather ingenious traders.
if you consider these people "scammers" then all power traders would also be considered "scammers". most power traders take advantage of people who dont know prices to make a profit these people are simply exploiting greed to make a profit. whats worse? if anything, id say exploiting noobs for profit is worse then exploiting greed. |
qft
I have to admit, that's a pretty ingenius idea of them :P
although, it would be considered spam on the part of the person trading the Kuuna and spam is not tolerated.
If you don't think its considered spam then I'll get 100+alliance friends to go to AD1 Kamadan and have them all say "Selling Mini Gwen 10k" in trade chat, that's the equivalent of what he's doing, therefore the person trading the kuunavang is breaching EULA and deserves to be banned.
Omniclasm
It is a scam, but it is really hard to show sympathy for someone who fell for it, or people who fall for it. It is worse than falling for a dupe trick. At least falling for a dupe trick, you are not ripping anyone off, just trying to make an easy buck. Falling for this scam means you are trying to rip someone off and make 50k+ off of them.
All scams take advantage of people.
Scams that take advantage of new people are lame such as buying black dye for 200 gold. Selling them a non-max blue for 500-1k and telling them it owns.
Scams that take advantage of experienced people are kind of lame, but its the victims fault for not thinking. "Drop your item so I can see it, I am an aggro bubble away", "Running xxx 1k before 1k after", Item swapping in trade box. It sucks that you got scammed, but it's your own fault. Think before you act.
Scams that take advantage of people trying to take advantage are just funny. Dupe Tricks, and this one. You are trying to trick someone from the other two categories, but you got scammed yourself. The only response I have to people that fall for that is....LOL
All scams take advantage of people.
Scams that take advantage of new people are lame such as buying black dye for 200 gold. Selling them a non-max blue for 500-1k and telling them it owns.
Scams that take advantage of experienced people are kind of lame, but its the victims fault for not thinking. "Drop your item so I can see it, I am an aggro bubble away", "Running xxx 1k before 1k after", Item swapping in trade box. It sucks that you got scammed, but it's your own fault. Think before you act.
Scams that take advantage of people trying to take advantage are just funny. Dupe Tricks, and this one. You are trying to trick someone from the other two categories, but you got scammed yourself. The only response I have to people that fall for that is....LOL
Voltar
yeah, since people can't play commercials in-game, they have to create artificial value this way. it's dishonest but so is everything on tv.
after all, common sense tells us: if something looks too good to be true, IMMEDIATELY JUMP IN HEAD-FIRST!
after all, common sense tells us: if something looks too good to be true, IMMEDIATELY JUMP IN HEAD-FIRST!
Voltar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
Scams that take advantage of people trying to take advantage are just funny.
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dopple
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gli
People, this is a scam.
This is a very famous type of con that's been run for decades in the real world, if not centuries. It even has several names, like "Glim-dropper" and "fiddle game". There is literature about this type of scam. The trick is to appeal to another person's greed. Tricking an immoral person out of his money is no less a scam than tricking an innocent. If you think this isn't a scam, you have no idea what the word scam means. Famous conmen in history have pulled this off for large amounts of real money, and bragged about it. The confusion probably arises from the fact that it is a good scam. Any scam that can leave bystanders or even the victim wondering if a scam has been pulled, is a good scam. If it can even leave the authorities powerless to intervene, it's a great scam. But how can there be any doubt? Two people conspiring to trick other people out of money, that's a scam. Period. |
Check:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confidence_trick
The fiddle game is a variation on the pigeon drop. A pair of con men work together, one going into an expensive restaurant in shabby clothes, eating, and claiming to have left his wallet at home, which is nearby. As collateral, the con man leaves his only worldly possession, the violin that provides his livelihood. After he leaves, the second con man swoops in, offers an outrageously large amount (for example, $50,000) for such a rare instrument, then looks at his watch and runs off to an appointment, leaving his card for the mark to call him when the fiddle-owner returns. The mark's greed comes into play when the "poor man" comes back, having gotten the money to pay for his meal and redeem his violin. The mark, thinking he has an offer on the table, then buys the violin from the fiddle player (who "reluctantly" sells it eventually for, say, $5,000). The result is the two con men are $5,000 richer (less the cost of the violin), and the mark is left with a cheap instrument. (This trick is also detailed in the Neil Gaiman novel American Gods and is the basis for The Streets' song "Can't Con an Honest John".)
OI-812
The fact that it depends on the greed of the mark to be successful makes it perfectly acceptable in my book. Karma's a b*tch, huh, greedy types?
arcanemacabre
Two wrongs never make a right... no matter how funny it is.
Omniclasm
If you want to use that saying then sure...
I like to use, "What goes around comes around"
I like to use, "What goes around comes around"
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
If you want to use that saying then sure...
I like to use, "What goes around comes around" |
OI-812
The scammers may or may not get what is coming to them - they have simply been unwittingly employed as agents of karma delivery. Perhaps there is some other aspect of their life which will suffer due to their in-game dishonesty - even if they get away with it in GW, real life may have an unpleasant surprise for them. Maybe, maybe not. Karma's a b*tch, but it's a fickle one.