Is it more fun to.....

..... buy things or get them on your own? For example, if you like the stats and skin on a particular green weapon, do find it to be more fun to get it as a drop or buy it from someone else?

....kill huge numbers of monsters to get coin or a fewer number, given your purchasing power stays the same? For example, would it be more fun to kill 1000 monsters to buy something for 10K or kill 500 monsters to buy the same thing for 20K?

....to have a title because you earned it or because most other players don't have it?

....farm solo or in a party, given that the drops are equal. For example, if a solo build or a party (heros, henches, and/or other players) had the same killing effectiveness plus the number/quality of drops were the same, is solo or party more fun?

In my opinion, these are the kinds of questions that Anet should be asking on the fan site forums before making gameplay decisions. As it stands now, I feel that Anet thinks it's more fun to buy the items you want than get them as drops, kill more monsters for the same purchasing power, have titles because others don't have them, and farm solo to get decent coins or items.

Somehow it just doesn't seem to me as though the game started out that way, but evolved during attempts to "balance the economy". For those of you that find it "more" fun that way, congrats. For me, I'd like to see the game balance shift a bit more toward playable and less "hardcore".

I tend to stray away from buying weapons,mods i don't mind.I'll just try farm them when i'm in mood.

farming nowadays i find tedious,but if i need something,i'll try the farm that grants most profit in shortest amount of time.

Well the titles are just something to work toward for GW2.They also show your achievements,even if some are grind and money sinks.

Nowadays,i guess the only thing that would keep me playing(atleast till GWEN comes out) would be to do some vanquishing or HM mission with friends.I find heros/hench boring.

As for a fun-factor, I'd rather find an item I've never seen before, that's truly unique. This is only possible the way the game currently is if I didn't have access (or chose not to access) to resources such as the wiki, and I happen across a random boss, and get the drop. The only other way it could happen is by coming across a green for the first time, before it has been documented. This actually happened to me, as I was the first person (at least to document it on Guru) to find the Ice Breaker green. Now that is fun!

Otherwise, you're technically shopping for it, and either way isn't terribly fun. You either have to work for the money to afford it, or you have to work by constantly farming the boss till it drops. I'd rather the accidental happening, much more rewarding, IMO.

Honestly it really doesn't matter to me. To me, money isn't fun. Money automatically implies work to me. I'd rather just experience the game, have fun, and when I notice that I happen to have saved up enough for some fancy set of threads or an item I think looks good, but is rare, I'll spend it. The only time I really care about how much money I'm sitting on is before the release of a new game (like GWEN coming up... saving mah money!), or when I would like to start buying more skills for changing up my builds. Otherwise, I couldn't care less.

Eh, the titles don't mean much to me. I don't really strive for any unless I'm terribly bored (and simultaneously have the time to waste), the title has actual usefulness (sunspear/lightbringer), or I want it for Role-Play reasons (like sweet tooth on my warrior, who has a background of loving candy). The "work" involved to reach a title doesn't interest me, and neither does the inherent elitism of high-end or multitude of titles.

Not sure why the drops affect the amount of fun - not following that line of thinking. If I'm in the mood to play as a team, I play in a team. If I'm in the mood to try and feel like an indestructible god that can take on mobs by itself, I play solo. Either way can be fun if I'm in the mood. Drops mean nothing except a means of income to support things like skills and stuff. There's nothing fun about that at all, IMO.

I think a balance in economy is a sensible idea. I mean, unless you support a terribly off-balance economy. Though I'm not sure why you would want that back, unless of course it favored you at the time.

Well there are things that are just impossible to ever farm in an effective manner, but i think it fells good to farm somthing ^^.

I do feel good when 2 boss in a row drop green for me .
Also stuffs from Kanaxai chest are rewarding.And I keep them.

I buy things simply because this game hates me. I've been playing since Prophecies, and the best non-green I recall getting is a r9 15^50 Deadbow farming hardmode Kryta. After buying one. I'm that guy in the party that gets a r13 purple bonestaff from a chest in DoA when everyone else gets r9 golds (yes, that happened). So, I buy things. I simply do not get good drops.

Meh... there is always means to earn money without excessive farming of hundreds of mobs. So you can complain or make money on other ways. As for titles, I don't give a flying fu*k. They are there only for you, if they make you feel better. If not, don't get them... And I need to buy all I want cus, like Loki said, this game doesn't favor me much. But that only makes me more mad, and then I eventualy buy everything I want, and say: In your face, Guild Wars! >:]

It's more fun to get it as a drop - it's quite thrilling to see it finally drop for you, especially if you've been trying for it over and over and over for several days.

That said, I once spent 10 solid days farming the Furnace with my nec, all because I'd decided I wanted a Tarnoc's Recurve. I ended up with a boatload of greens (including a Bortak's Claw & 2 Drago's Flats, along with 3 Sup Vigors) but Tarnoc never dropped for me. Once I remembered that he drops 3 different bows, and that if and when he did drop it might just as easily be one I didn't want, I went ahead and bought the darn thing. And the really funny thing is that I've never really used it.

Given what you wrote about not caring whether you make money, I wouldn't think you'd have much concern over the balance of the enconomy. Whether the ecomony is "balanced" or "terrible off-balance" is purely speculation at this point. Personally, I could care less about the economy. My interests are more with the overall gameplay.

i think its more fun getting something in a drop, i have never bought anything though i have swapped a mini, and sold the odd item that i didnt need.

I don;t enjoy farming though as its rather tedious for me, to do the same thing hour after hour.

Some things though have changed, I don't like pugs so tend to play witha few known individuals, unless in AB, and have gone off playign in guilds as some bad treatment in a few has left a sour taste.

Anet does ask questions of the community though, and unfortunatley the community tends to answer in a very divided way, for example over the question of the 2nd birthday presents.

A good company should do as they think best rather than constantly askign the community what it wants, maybe on rare occassions or major changes yes.

It's more fun to get your own green weapons, you know where it will drop, just the matter of time. But it's PITA trying to get a gold weapon with skin of your choice, since there is wide range of weapons dropping, depending on your luck.

None, they all suck imo.

Question:

Why is it that loot is so important to you when the economy isn't? Would you rather have no trading system at all, and get anything you ever wanted with little effort?

Personally, I could do without either loot or the economy. However, both are a part of this game, and both contribute to many people's fun in the game.

There is no "fun" in buying stuff, you find someone selling something you give him money he gives you the item and your done, i don't see where there is a chance to have fun in this.

Now about buying or getting it as drop, getting it as drop is usually fun, but then again there are the ones that can be really annoying,lets take Urgoz for example, you have to fight thru hundreds of enemies for 1 - 4 hours and then eventually get to him and hope your group knows what to do and then you kill him and he doesn't drop the bow you want for you, you repeat this 5 times and still no bow, in this way it can get very frustrated.

Hmm tricky one, for me its more fun to just go thru the 1000 enemies, i mean you always have the chance of getting even more nice drops in that second 500 group and who knows maybe you overaggro too many at one point and then you manage to kill them and survive and it feels good after managing to do that after you thought you almost surely was gonna die.

Both, having a title because i earned it would be earning one i really wanted ( like how i want max Chest collector and Wisdom title ) But having something most people don't have is also cool cause that on it own makes it special ( most of the time) and who doesn't like having something that is special?


If it is farming and only farming then alone or with 1 or 2 other people is the only way to really enjoy it I think, it is much easier to coordinate 2 people then it is to coordinate 7 people, you have more chance of someone messing up and screwing it up for everyone in a group of 8 then you have of it happening if you are just with one more person.

Ummm, who said loot was so important to me? I also didn't say anything about the trading system. And, I said absolutely nothing about getting things with little effort. I did say that my interest is in overall gameplay.

It is true that I don't really care about the economy from the standpoint of player trading, just because I don't trade. That also means I don't really care about having huge amount of gold, other than to get the needed armor, weapons, and skills. The only thing I really like about loot is getting a nicely skinned weapon with good stats occasionally while simply out killing monsters. Not by doing chest runs, solo farming in HM, or buying one.

Finally, I don't really care about the economy in terms of have's and have not's. Now that's only because I've been playing for 2 years and have everything in the way of basic necessities (armor, weapons, skills). I feel sorry for a lot of players that are just starting out and are having a difficult time getting the basics, but they'll have to take that up with Anet.

That would be cool. Imagine how it would be if you could just change your look every now and then completely, work on skills without having to grind al the time, and just buy something nice every now and then?

I don't get that.
When I started the game, I was in full teams all the time.
I expect most new players to do the same.
Things have not changed for them.

Oh, I forget, when I started playing the game, runes were expensive, as were some crafting materials.
Seems new players are better of than I was back then.

Can you please explain why new players are having more problems now than 'earlier'?

I've sure bought my share of items. I've played more than 2 years. But lately, even though I still have an adequate amount of gold, I've been equipping my characters using dropped items. It's just a way to change the rules for myself and make the game fresh again. Even items that I would have taken to the merchant before seem great when they drop and I need them. I'm glad I bought weapons, shields and caster items when I started the game - it seemed fun then and made the game easier. But when drops started feeling meaningless to me, my new system made things fun again.

I doubt that there's any one right answer here. It just depends on what seems fun since, uh, it is a game and that's the idea. So what works for me won't necessarily be the right answer for others.

I do help out other players alot but I do think I am quite envious of the harder to obtain titles and when I get them I will display them to show off allthough I never talk about them I just enjoy the comments of people whispering 'how did you get that one' and things like that. But I guess most people display titles for the same reason - human nature maybe?

I'd feel MUCH better if I found the things I wanted. That hasn't happened in two years of playing though, so I've had to buy everything I wanted. Whine, exaggerate, whatever you may say, the fact remains that my luck for drops sucks. Therefore i've had to take matters into my own hands to achieve my goals. But it sure would feel good if something I wanted would just drop for me during my adventures...

Get them on my own. I don't go out farming for a particular weapon, but when an rare/unique item drops, it's a nice treat.

The more challenging the enemy,the better the loot drops. I'd much rather face enemies that test my skills than run around one-hitting low level monsters for a few gold.

Because I earned it. The titles that others have has no effect on the titles that I choose to persue.

When it comes to farming, I prefer to go out on my own with heros/henchies. I tried solo farming and it's rather tedious and boring. When it comes to questing / doing missions, I'd much rather party up with real people, be it guildies/friends or PUGs/

I'm sure that A-Net does keep these things in mind when updating the game. The value of loot drops is proportionate to the level of the enemy, always has been. And I think they've done a fair job of balancing the ways of getting items between trade, farming, and normal game-play. As for titles, I don't think they're worried about who has them or how many people have them. I think they put a wide variety of titles in so that people with different ways of enjoying the game can benefit from them - some people enjoy mapping, some don't, for example.

I also think that they've changed the loot dropping as incentive for people to do more questing / farming with other real people. I noticed while farming LB/SS points, I'd get better drops in a 6-person PUG than I would with a 5-person PUG or with H/H. Two reasons for this is that 1. the more people group up to quest, the fewer instances running at a time, which conserves their resources. And 2. It seems to me that they're trying to restore the sense of community with the change to loot scaling (getting people to group together) and cracking down on trade chat in the Alll-chat channel (so people can converse in town)

There is nothing like having Jayne drop both Jaynes staff and the vera in 1 kill(triple drop weekend)

So farming for me feels much better than buying.

I remember one SF run I had a green drop from every boss :P People thought I was cheating and they left pretty sharpish after the run! Havent had alot of luck there since thou...

It's more fun to get a great drop than find a great trading deal.

Part of the issue is that in GW trading isn't really necessary, and the tools to do so, while improved, are still behind the standard MMO.

In the typical MMO, all of your gear is level dependent. It takes as long to level from, for example, level 45 to 47 in WOW as it does to level from 1 to 20 in Factions. Each time you level, just about every bit of your gear becomes obsolete - weapons, shields, rings, cloaks, leggings, breastplates, etc. can all be improved. There's no way you will find everything you need by the time you level, so you HAVE to trade to outfit your character. Given the auction houses most other MMO's have, this process is relatively painless and can be quite fun. In games like LOTR, the very best gear can only be acquired by personally killing an instanced final boss, so trading can't totally replace the dungeon crawl.

Doubtless, when GW2 comes along, a much better trading system will be implemented which will make trading -- versus finding drops -- relatively more fun.

I generaly enjoy having a rare item drop for me over just going out and buying it. But if there is a particular skin that seams to just never drop then ive no objection to purchasing it, with some unique limits.

I find it hard to talk myself into buying any of the Mallyx greens since ive not killed him and earned them.

As for titles I'm not one to jump up and down when I somebody with one, but I have to admit im quite proud of my Guardian of Tyria and the Master Cartogripher titles ive got. Virtualy every other title can be purchased or leeched.

I truely hate farming, but every now and then I will go out solo just to pit a char against a mob or see if I can best a tough boss 1 on 1.

[QUOTE]actually that is completely and so far from the various post scale posts provably wrong

the person starting out playing the game is not affected except runes are dirt cheap compared to much earlier.

the starting person is getting

iron .......not steel/del steel

cloth .....not linen

hide ......not leather squares

furs are not several k each

starting people playing their first/second chracter are thinking 1.5 K armor in the future but right now they are after that YAKS armor they like

before flaming check this out

the lower you go the less any loot scaling kicks in which is perfect for the person just getting started.

go to a high level area where the farming gold is made and loot scalng is there big time

the casual person playing the game is not hurt the high lever hardcore farmer gets less

the person playing the game is their bottom line bread and butter

the high end hard core of all stripes types and varieties are not

I have often resisted buying weapons because I prefer to get them on my own. The ones that I love are the ones that I got in drops. This excludes my bow collection. I have a number that I got, but friends gave me a lot of them because I didn't have that skin.

Getting gold is nice so I can buy keys/salvage and ID kits but it's not all that important to me. If I need any, I'll just sell some upgrades/runes/dye/materials.

For my answer to this, I'll give you an example; When I go bowling with other people, I don't bowl against them, I bowl against myself. So yes, it's because I earned it.

Because I totally hate solo farming, the only way I do farm is with friends, guildies and allies. I'm not playing this game for the gold and items, I play it for fun.

/agree and qft

ditto I'd also like to add that I really hate my skills getting nerfed because of PvP. This is totally unfair to PvE players.

Good post, let's hope Gaile or someone sees it and really reads it and not see it as a "fire that has to be put out".

Their situation doesn't mean the situation for everyone playing the game. When I was busy with my first character, he had to grind for each and every armor set he bought (the one in Yaks, the Jungle, the Desert etc.)

This only counts if each and every casual player does NOT buy anything, does NOT want to get cash and does NOTHING but the storyline. This isn't true however.

Really, do starting people even KNOW what or when the max dmg armor is? I certainly didn't. I just heard from friends and guildies it was in the snowy part, after the Desert. And if you buy new armor everytime, it IS needed to do some extra work, cause there is no way in hell you get enough cash from the storyline to buy each and every better armor, unless you are lucky with drops, and buy nothing else.


The material thing doesn't count for everyone, either. When I was busy with my first character, I didn't even KNOW how to get materials, except from Material Traders. So I didn't get any materials at all.

This is partly true. If you go in Ascalon with a 4-man team, you'd be getting the same percentage of drops as you would get in FoW with an 8-man team. It doesn't really matter. Except in Ascalon, there are almost no quality drops. No rare materials, no golds etc. So the exemption list has less effect there. One could say that you get more crap in Ascalon, than in the high-end areas, which is true.

It's just the 1/8th rule that goes there. You only get 1/8th of the drops, no matter with how many people you play, or how much work you do.

Again assuming the casual gamer ALWAYS does the exact same things, and does NOTHING but the storyline, which is not the case. I know alot of casual players that used to actually kill stuff in Ascalon for cash. They needed it to buy the Piken Square armor, or just the Old-Ascalon armor.

high-level hardcore farmers aren't affected. They already had their storage filled with Ecto and rare weapons. They sold the ecto in the few days they were 14K each (thanks to the loot scaling), and when the exemption list went in effect, and the prices went down, they had more cash than they could store.

Also, the things they farm aren't affected by the loot scaling, and can still be farmed. They can STILL get gold weapons, rare materials etc, and sell for a really high price. They are unaffected by the loot scaling.

The one most hurt, is the normal gamer, who just does everything that the game has to offer. He does the storyline, but while doing it, also enjoys other things. He takes it easy, and looks and does what the game has to offer. He farms some, and spends the cash right away, without thinking of being rich, but just for the own pleasure.

And in the past, people could just throw out a henchie or two, and do quests. He would get more cash than before, and that was the way of making cash.

Even if starting players didn't get it harder, they sure as hell didn't get it easier, either. First, they at least had the OPTION of willing to get some cash, now, that is impossible, too.

I farmed zhelon reach about for 5 days just to get a colossal to drop for me. I guess that tells you a little about my habits. Let me tell you, it was all worth it. I like to farm for myself for 2 reasons. 1. I dont like to spend my money. 2. I enjoy having something i realy worked hard for.

..... buy things or get them on your own?
I prefer to go out and get them on my own, but that isn't practical, and buying them ends up being faster with less effort. For some greens, it's just not worth the bother. For most gold skins that I like, ditto. I can farm for a couple hours, make the cash I need for something, and buy it. Or I can farm for a couple hours for a specific thing, not get it, and have wasted my time. Neither one is truly FUN, but the first one makes more sense.

....kill huge numbers of monsters to get coin or a fewer number, given your purchasing power stays the same?
Whichever one wastes the least amount of my time.

....to have a title because you earned it or because most other players don't have it?
Titles irritate me, I get them only when they 'happen' through playing, or when my character needs one to match his RP.

....farm solo or in a party, given that the drops are equal.
I'd rather farm with my heroes than solo, and I'd rather farm solo than with people. I enjoy the heroes aspect of the game, and that would make more group builds viable. Farming with other players is a drain on my brain.

I have only bought two things in the past several months and those were elite tomes. If I need something I tend to go out and get it for myself as I just don't like spending my gold. Honestly, I would never pay any amount of money for something with a pretty skin.

I only care about the amount of monsters I have to go through to get to the next area, I don't go out specifically to kill monsters just for loot.

The only title I am proud of is my Canthan Pathfinder. It's not max and it's nothing special, but it is the only one I went for just because I wanted to.

I rarely farm, but on those occasions that I do I use my Ranger or Rit and I go solo. With either of those a party member would just get in the way. Honestly though, I do not like farming, it is boring, often repetitive, and quite tedious.

For me, its more fun to buy stuff since I can make plat faster then I can get good items from drops.

I tend to kick ass and chew bubble gum when I want something.... I REALLY don't like bubble gum.

KANE

Omg, They Killed Kenny!!!!!!

Lol, I feel your pain.

I've never had wonderful drops myself... got one or two nice items but that's it.


Buy or Farm? Try to farm, but if it isn't too expensive I'll buy.
Fewer or more kills with same GP purchasing power? Fewer. At the very least it'd save our time and fingers.
Titles? My titles stink in general. If there were a title for not having good enough titles, I'd be at least rank 1 or 2. So when I get them, I enjoy getting them more than anything, and not because of others.
Farming solo or in parties? That's about equal to me.

I rather buy/sell items than farm for a particular one. I rather get money while playing the game and working at titles, and use it to buy greens from wtsellers in Kamadan etc.

Also, it's nice that when you get greens of not your profession that you can sell them in town to someone who needs it.

Well, if it isn't important to you, why are 3 out of 4 of your questions involve the fun factor of how much loot you are getting?

• Your first question asks about the acquisition of green items = a form of loot.
• Your second question asks about the number of monsters needed to be killed for the same amount of money = what monsters drop = loot.
• Your third question involves titles, which has nothing to do with loot (although many titles are generally acquired via money, which comes from loot).
• Your fourth question asks about farming, which is all about loot.

You're right, I probably jumped to conclusions about loot being important to you, even though that's what this entire thread, which you made, is about.

I surely didn't say you said any of that. They were further questions, not statements exclaiming anything. You could try answering them, instead of being defensive.

Then I ask, why would the amount of virtual money you get, or some words displayed under your name have any effect on your overall gameplay?

Ahh but just because you don't care about the economy doesn't mean that others don't either. Just because you don't trade doesn't mean that others don't either.

I don't feel sorry for new players at all. There's no reason to be sorry for them. This game is just as fun now as it was when I started. They can afford everything they need to all the way to level 20 by simply playing through. I just did it a couple of weeks ago when I made a new monk in Factions. I played through without accessing my storage not even once and in full teams. I had enough money and materials when I hit Kaineng at level 17 to get max armor (though I had GotY & GWEN preorder weapons, so I didn't need a staff), full runes and survivor insignias. Not from lucky drops, just plain old drops.

I wasn't trying to prove anything with that monk, I just simply never needed to use my storage for anything. I even had enough to buy some dyes for my armor. Sure, everyone's experience is different, it may take some a little more time (those who don't know little secrets like ID'ing everything). I surely don't see how now is any different then how it was when I started playing (and before I did any form of farming), and I was able to afford what I needed then, too. If anything, starting in Factions means they can get to the higher level enemies (who subsequently drop higher level loot) much quicker than going straight through Prophecies.