I have a sin about 3/4 of the way through NF and man am I regretting ever making the damn thing. I WANT sins to be cool I so do, but they're just NOT. Playing a sin PvE these days feels a lot like playing a mesmer a few years ago, when you couldn't get a group for love or money. Only this time it's not that my profession is misunderstood, it's that it just sucks.
Sure, they're not completely useless in PvP; I play a monk there and many a time I've been stabbed to death by some pesky assassin (although one wonders how much better they are at assassinating at the end of the day than other classes - and whether or not they just show up to kill monks cos it's what they feel they SHOULD be doing, and about all they can do before they're pulped and spend the rest of the match too squishy to sneeze without getting a deep wound).
Not being useless does not make them GOOD. Other classes can almost always do what sins do, only better:
- PvE missions almost usually require AoE. It's not a bad thing, players love to wade through hordes of easy to kill bad dudes. It makes us feel good, like we're kicking ass. Sins can do AoE sorta - but it's either some anemic once-a-minute deal (death blossom), or attack based (Mark of Pain / Repeating strike), which leaves you in a fight for long enough for someone with a hammer or something to take issue with you. Before anyone points out sins weren't designed to do AoE.. well that's rather the point. They aren't, but PvE is. And they don't make up for it in other roles.
- Chasing down kiters? Most classes can apply cripples hexes or knockdowns to achieve the same thing, usually from the (relative) safety of range.
- Conditions? cough*rangernecro*cough.
- Spike damage? Gee i donno, necros, warriors, rangers, dervishes all equal or kick the crap out of sins here.
- Self sufficiency? sin heals are barely worth the energy.
- Pressure? And here is the main problem. Even IF sin bread and butter skills did significantly more damage than, say a warrior's or ele's - and they generally don't - for a sin to apply any skill they need to get into close range, apply the combo, get out before anyone kills them and then futz around for a while while they recover energy and health / enemies lose aggro / opponents forget that there's a squishy and annoying sin on the team to score off. The whole turnaround is longer than it should be due to the class' inherent contradiction of gaining health and energy mostly from attacks, but being unable to remain in combat for any length of time. Thus the DPS of a sin over any length of time is painfully sub-par; and the afterglow of pulling of a cool gank on some target doesn't usually last out the frustration of having to choose between very occasionally submitting some damage, and dying.
So there's my whinge it's probly not the first and probly won't be the last. I love the idea of assassins which is why i've persisted so far, and I'll probably still play them where they can supply some sort of tactical advantage (GvG comes to mind) but I think I'm done burdening PvE teams with the stupid thing and in PvP I have a Me/Ne that can take down more targets more often than a sin and doesn't have to get all up in the enemy's business to do it. I'd love to be shown the error of my ways so please rebut away, but for now my sin is being retired and I'm don't recommend the class to anyone except as a PvP novelty.
why these things are so disappointing..
zwitterion
pingu666
OwBk0te5HNq0CEuDZGCzCD/jLTNI
OwVlMcdrX+Rj4sAxdkZE2Cj/5yQA for areas with afflicted
OwVlMcdrX+Rj4sAxdkZE2Cj/5yQA for areas with afflicted
Pick Me
Hmm.... I disagree with your statements about DPS, and about everyone can do everything an Assassin can do only better.
Assassins are cool (IMHO), just they are too thin for my liking.
Yes, Assassins are not really supposed to do AoE, because they are to target one alone target at a time (to avoid being gang crushed). It is a good reason why HotO exists.
Kiting, Assassins can do that too and can be better at it than just about anyone (teleporting in and out is better than wanding and walking away).
Ranger/Necro vs Assassin/Ranger or Assassin/Necro - yes, I see where you can say conditions are better obtained (especially since neither Ranger nor Necros have Deep Wounds).
Don't daggers have faster AS than Swords? If so, A/W gives more DPS right?
Sin Heals with Feigned Neutrality, so yeah, Warriors with Mending and Healing Breeze (I still see them around) have better use of their energy.
Let's not forget, Eles and Mesmers still have worst self-healing than Assassins.
Assassins are not tanks, Eles' spells require you to stand there and wave your hands. Assassins spikes, disrupts and kds you before you can cast. So where does your Ele's power endup? Warriors are in your face and can take the damage, of course they can't remove blindness on their own (pure warriors can't, they rely on 2ndary or someone else to remove it). So, Assassins can stick around longer.
In any movie, how many times do you see Assassins run up to a group of guys and attack them? Assassins rock on a 1v1 situation. They are there to attack a single target and get out (hence the teleport out skills).
Critical Barrager is a safe distance A/R combo. Tried it?
I've seen players play the Assassin in PvE very well, killing things very quickly and able to run missions with ease.
My Assassin has completed two out of three campaigns and unless I play stupidly (or lagg), I almost never die. Please don't discourage others from playing other professions, they may end up enjoying Assassins more than you.
Assassins are cool (IMHO), just they are too thin for my liking.
Yes, Assassins are not really supposed to do AoE, because they are to target one alone target at a time (to avoid being gang crushed). It is a good reason why HotO exists.
Kiting, Assassins can do that too and can be better at it than just about anyone (teleporting in and out is better than wanding and walking away).
Ranger/Necro vs Assassin/Ranger or Assassin/Necro - yes, I see where you can say conditions are better obtained (especially since neither Ranger nor Necros have Deep Wounds).
Don't daggers have faster AS than Swords? If so, A/W gives more DPS right?
Sin Heals with Feigned Neutrality, so yeah, Warriors with Mending and Healing Breeze (I still see them around) have better use of their energy.
Let's not forget, Eles and Mesmers still have worst self-healing than Assassins.
Assassins are not tanks, Eles' spells require you to stand there and wave your hands. Assassins spikes, disrupts and kds you before you can cast. So where does your Ele's power endup? Warriors are in your face and can take the damage, of course they can't remove blindness on their own (pure warriors can't, they rely on 2ndary or someone else to remove it). So, Assassins can stick around longer.
In any movie, how many times do you see Assassins run up to a group of guys and attack them? Assassins rock on a 1v1 situation. They are there to attack a single target and get out (hence the teleport out skills).
Critical Barrager is a safe distance A/R combo. Tried it?
I've seen players play the Assassin in PvE very well, killing things very quickly and able to run missions with ease.
My Assassin has completed two out of three campaigns and unless I play stupidly (or lagg), I almost never die. Please don't discourage others from playing other professions, they may end up enjoying Assassins more than you.
zknifeh
if u dont know how to play an assassin and dont have a good build, doesnt mean that they suck... they dont even need to be crit barragers to not get close to the enemy... theres a dancing daggers, enduring toxin, +signets builds that do massive damage and arent all in the face of the enemy... eles are probably the only class that can do massive ammounts of aoe damage... and thats mostly with fire magic. about healing urself... monks are the only ones in IMO with the best heals obvioously... every other profession has just enough healing to stay alive and wait for monks heal... when low health feigned neutrality can actually keep u alive from skills like meteor shower...
the dps... [skill]moebius strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill] + a good ias or critical agility are actually a really good dps and can go a loooooong way since its an infinite chain... the warriors arent exactly an AoE dealing machine either
also why take damage when u can have 75% chance to block it... sometimes me and my guildies go do a HM mission or vanquish and dont have a tank which leaves me as an assassin aggroing things and holding the aggro (i dont pull 1 enemy at a time i pull them all)
so there you are, assassins can (atleast in my eyes) do everything other melee classes can while dishing out lots of damage...
the dps... [skill]moebius strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill] + a good ias or critical agility are actually a really good dps and can go a loooooong way since its an infinite chain... the warriors arent exactly an AoE dealing machine either
also why take damage when u can have 75% chance to block it... sometimes me and my guildies go do a HM mission or vanquish and dont have a tank which leaves me as an assassin aggroing things and holding the aggro (i dont pull 1 enemy at a time i pull them all)
so there you are, assassins can (atleast in my eyes) do everything other melee classes can while dishing out lots of damage...
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pick Me
Base dagger AS is the same as Axe and Sword, at 1.33s/swing.
However... Higher Dagger Mastery yields a greater chance of double-strikes on auto-attacks, in essence making daggers swing faster on auto-attacks. However, assassins that auto-attack to kill stuff/DPS are bad, because the actual damage of daggers is pathetic.
So, the apparent increase in the AS of daggers is a moot point, because you should be using attack skills, which don't trigger the double-strike chance.
Cathode_Reborn
This is the ranting of a failed sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zwitterion
Quote:
Quote: Originally Posted by zwitterion Before anyone points out sins weren't designed to do AoE.. well that's rather the point. They aren't, but PvE is. And they don't make up for it in other roles. You're right, they werent meant to do Aoe damage yet they can do it somewhat well using Death Blossom. A Warrior's aoe damage is even worse. A Derv's scythe can do aoe damage but enemies arn't always bunched up for it. The point of having a melee class on the team is for taking down single targets whether it be a sin, war, or derv. Ele's and Necs do pretty well taking out mobs with aoe damage, but if you've seen how slow they can be to kill a single target you'll known why a team should usually have at least 1 melee class.
Quote: Originally Posted by zwitterion Conditions? cough*rangernecro*cough. ???.....Conditions don't win pve, damage does.
Quote: Originally Posted by zwitterion
Spike damage? Gee i donno, necros, warriors, rangers, dervishes all equal or kick the crap out of sins here.
This is where it gets sad....Sins are specifially known for spiking yet you're complaining? Necro spikes? A caster can't even hope to spike as well as a sin. Don't even bring rangers into this, thats a joke. Sure they can spike....only if there's multiple of them....a sin can solo spike.
Quote:
- Conditions? cough*rangernecro*cough.
The only condition I've found to be really useful in PvE is deep wound, and even then that isn't often. The only time an assassin really wants to inflict conditions is if they're running a deadly arts build, and that something that is even rarer than the elusive smiting monk in my experience so far.Quote:
Even a crippled/slowed target can dodge ranged attacks. What they can't dodge is a character that teleports up to them and stabs them in the back with an attack chain before they can react. And also, realistically, how often do monsters in PvE try to kite? In my experience, the vast majority of them just stand there and attack you, unless they're dodging AoE or someone's aggro management failed giving them a clear run to the healers.|
Originally Posted by zwitterion
Pressure? And here is the main problem. Even IF sin bread and butter skills did significantly more damage than, say a warrior's or ele's - and they generally don't - for a sin to apply any skill they need to get into close range, apply the combo, get out before anyone kills them and then futz around for a while while they recover energy and health / enemies lose aggro / opponents forget that there's a squishy and annoying sin on the team to score off.
That's your own fault for pug'ing.....I henched/hero'd all of Cantha and Nightfall on my sin. I'm the only melee ever on the team, I go in the frontline and stay there. 16dag and 13crit, no selfhealing - my health and energy stays up, I recommend you stop pug'ing and get yourself a decent team. Quote:
Assassins are not really supposed to be AoE attackers. But Death Blossom absolutely rocks. You don't even need to combine it with Moebius Strike if you're using an attack chain that recharges quickly and make good use of an IAS skill to advance the chain faster. Furthermore, it's a dual attack, so the damage it says it does can be doubled in practice. 90 armor ignoring AoE damage every coupla seconds (at dagger mastery 15)? I'll admit to not having much experience with the AoE capabilities of an elementalist, but even I doubt that they can keep up with that for too long without exhausting their own energy pools to oblivion.
Quote: |
Quote:
Quote:
|
- Spike damage? Gee i donno, necros, warriors, rangers, dervishes all equal or kick the crap out of sins here.
Against lower level targets, perhaps other professions can outspike an assassin. But against higher level and more heavily armored targets, other proressions watch their damage dealing capabilities drop. This isn't the case for assassins, as the +damage on dagger attacks is added after armor reduction of weapon damage is taken into account. The assassin will still be slicing through that heavy armor like a hot knife through butter, while everyone else is having trouble even making a dent. Quote:
|
