Fury in CPL, Anet Fails Again

I don't think it was only a marketing issue. ArenaNet also never introduced the tools to run 3rd-party-tournments or -ladders in a smooth way. It's really hard to set up such stuff. Also, a system in the game itself for Sealed Decks or locking campains or certain skillsets would have been handy.

I was hoping a bit for the GW-Serveremulator, but it seems ANet has solved this "issue" (..).

The current ATS-system is very bad marketed, not accepted by the players and was introduced way too late.

I thought that system is tiered (so, rank 1 fight only people who are about same rank)

Maybe because there is not enough of people, for beta it was not tiered.

Strange thing that game in Beta state got into CPL. Cant say much about Fury because I only seen those teaser on their website.
Sure that big competition will give the game quiet a reputation.But isn't 3 million(a million if they count the box not account) copy of GW sold already enough to keep the game running.

I've been reading up a lot on Fury. Seems like if you don't get in on it early, you're sort of fcuked if you want to play. It also appears that the rank system is random...spawn, die, indeed.
And call me pessimistic, but the game types are uninspired. Non-Tiered gameplay isn't really fun after a while....

GW's PvP is essentially dead, and god knows what's going to happen with GW:EN. This is because of ANet's willingness to cater to different gamer types, and subsequently, it upsets those who prefer to play one over the other.
You have rank elitists, and you have pve'ers whining about rank elitism.

It appears that ANet is getting loaded up with a more professional marketing team. If this is the case, and if GW2 will hold up the "no fees" credo, as well have different teams monitoring pve and pvp seperately, then ANet could truly produce a legendary game in GW2.

Seeing as how most mmo's are vastly similar these days, to produce a completely new title like ANet has is a respectable degree of success, despite their mistakes with the pvp audience.

And why the hell are you bringing Gaile into this? She's PR! Go yell at Izzy or something, Gaile's a PR rep, and she tells us what ANet wants her to tell us. If pvp is imba (which it is), you can't really complain to the person that serves as communication between playerbase and company, as she doesn't have the last word. =/

There is a theory going around that the CR team did not understand PvP problems, did not relay enough PvP information to either the players or the rest of Anet, and essentially did almost nothing for the competitive community.

Thus the probability of a bigger market did not happen and the game didn't live up to its potential.

A robust matchmaking system that ensures players always fight opponents of equal skill and experience

Trying reading up a little bit harder.

I LOLed at that so much....what a joke.

Its better than GW, but certainly its not perfect and overmatched opponents occur.

Snipped from a Fury forum posted 7-22:
My experience with it is the same, Spawn, get killed, respawn. No fun, no chance to learn, everyone's a jerk. No Thanks, not my game.

But whats happening is the pool of veterans overshadows all new players and theres not enough to match properly, so you end up with badly matched games.

Its basically the wall of difference in experience that kills newbies and makes it frustrating to get into it. Guild Wars PvP has the same problem, Fury being much more pvp based will have a bigger problem with it as time progresses.

The issue of fighting higher ranked people is mainly due to the low population of beta - the matchmaking system is forced to match different ranked people in order to get games occuring quickly. Hopefully that should be better when the game gets a greater population of players. That being said, one of the major factors in the game is knowledge of the maps and skills, which means although players may be evenly ranked, people from alpha and pre-beta will easily dominate most of the newer players.

The difference is ranks isn't a huge problem, its possible to reach rank 8 (the rank with the highest equip points) within a few days of play, so most people who do not instantly quit will be able to hold their own against the better players pretty quickly.

I still have hope, yes I know I shouldn't, in Devs. With every big chapter, there is an important skill balance. I don't say this skill balance is always right, for Nightfall for example, the sin changed from a PvP minor annoyance and a PVE Death Nova first target to an imba near-unstoppable killing machine in gank situations.
But they could change for GWEN.
Maybe PVE devs will make imba but PVE only SF-like skills, while PVP Devs will focus on changing balance for GWEN while introducing a limited number of PvP usable skill.
They put a lot of effort in GWEN. Maybe their work will pay. Or maybe not. Nighfall failed, IMO, by turning the Skill>time spent credo into a grindfest, even in PvP, through grind farmed titles (and they had the HA /rank example, but they didn't seem to understand the issue that, a grindable thing will be farm-exploited no matter the effort they do).
Maybe GWEN will repair the GW machine. But it could also turn it into a nightmare.
For my part, GWEN will be the expansion, the breakpoint that will get me to buy GW2 or not.
If GWEN fails, by improving again grind over skill and balance, I will definitively abandon ANet and I won't rejoice GW2 playerbase.

It is always a matter of opinion of what a player thinks of his/her game but getting into the CPL wether you feel a game is bad or not is a huge plus for any game.

This was my experience with Fury, down to the letter. I place the blame pretty heavily on the complete lack of introduction and training, however--their "training" consists entirely of "this is how you move ok choose your profession k good luck have fun"

Lawl @ CPL.

I'm sorry, they have World in Conflict as main event, which isnt even out yet. And doesn't seem to deliver what they promised, or at least not in the competitive scene. According to many testers and magazines. Which was in my opinion a stupid decision. They have FEAR (yay), and ditched some old games (which isn't particularly bad, but it is in this case).

And Fury is there for the spectators to join in, not a main stage event. They did it before didn't they? (cant recall what show/event.. PAX?).

I would say, please first go test, and balance shit out, let players practice the flow of the game, so we can have/see exciting matches. Not just some people who played the Beta and have a headstart, or some unbalancing and untested game in a grand gaming championship.

But yeah, would be fun to see GW having 3rd party tournaments, and its good Fury does their thing. Just that CPL is bad. 's all.

It was bound to happen it was just a matter of time.I would like to know where is Alex's replacement as NCsoft being the license holders of the game.It is them who hold the purse strings for Anet.I wouldn't say segregating pve and pvp are the answer.

For information Age, Martin Kerstein is Alex Weekes replacement at NCSoft and has already done a lot on guru and also did a 2 hour Q&A session during my show this evening on the sanitarium, of which the transcript will be up and hosted 2moro aswell as the show...

We even discussed the lack of third party leagues for GW and it seems it is an issue with ANet as NCSoft would very much like it to happen, but he also said that something with EGL or another gaming league may still happen now big changes are coming

as any game that hasn't been released yet, we'll just have to wait and see...

^Rly.I haven't seen or read any of Martins posts here and I wonder what other changes.

Wow! A game in the first part of it's open beta isn't perfect?! HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?!

To answer your misinformed rantings, the matchmaking system ISN'T perfect at the moment, on account of two reasons. Firstly, the fact that the population and rank spread in the beta population makes it difficult to match games entirely with equal (and close to equal) ranks. The system works much like GW's GvG system (currently) where it looks for equal ranks and after time, if it cannot find them, matches you against a broader range of players. And once again, since this is a beta, not as many people are joining and starting characters every day, so chances are you will have some matches against people who have high ranked characters after weeks of play. It's just a product of the low population.

Secondly, the matchmaking system itself is only a shell of what it will eventually be, since (as you would know if you actually read the beta forums) the current build of Fury being used in the open beta and preview weekends is months behind the one being developed internally. This system is in place to provide the beta with a more stable environment to test, while the content department continues to add things to the game and improve features (which add more bugs). The matchmaker is undergoing huge changes and is eventually going to be capable of matching not only against rank but against individual skill based upon your statistics, which the game will record. Couple this with a larger population of more varied ranks and you will see less and less of these one-sided matches.

The third issue you highlight, that of a steep initial learning curve, is already being addressed by both the developers and the beta testers. It has been highlighted as an issue by the testing community and forwarded to the developers for their attention in the upcoming build. Hopefully, new builds (and release) will have a better tutorial that actually teaches the game play modes, the trial system and even more about the skills themselves.

The fact is that all of these "problems" you identify and use to disqualify the game are part of the reason the beta exists - to test and provide feedback to the developers. Ultimately, if a PvP based RPG/MMO interests you at all, there's no reason why these issues should put you off from playing, unless you have huge problems swallowing your pride for the sake of improving the game.

Edit: Decided for further clarification I'd bold a few important points in the post.

Also a game thats just not fun for me in its current state.

Ya..didnt i just say that?

*checks*

Thats nice to know.

Again, thats good to know.

Its not fun. It just isn't. If it was fun, i wouldnt mind helping them make it better. But its not...Just not for me.

Haha, looks like I struck a nerve. How dare they criticize my beloved baby!

Okay, I played against people better than me after waiting for over a half-hour just to enter one game, so you're right about the lack of population. This doesn't make the game any more fun though so????

Why the hell should I have to read the forums to enjoy a game?

Okay good? I know it's a beta, I know they're likely going to fix problems, but that doesn't change the fact that at the moment, the game is an awful unfun pile of crap.

What if those issues make the game not fun to play? I think that's a pretty good reason.

In terms of "fun", of course it's not fun to get beaten up on but you always have to the option of persevering for a couple of hours (which is all it takes to get to a more competitive rank) in order to test the game and give your feedback on those early stages to the developers (who do listen, incidentally) so that it won't be an issue in the released version of the game.

While you eluded to it, it had a fairly negative spin. In addition, there was another post I quoted which it applied to, so I felt it necessary to reiterate the causes of the issue. What I didn't was remind you, once again, that this issue is limited to beta (and dependant upon the matchmaker issues addressed further in the post). So when you "lol" at Auran's statements about a robust matchmaking system, you must remember the product you're playing is not always indicative of the final release and is for testing purposes.



Being informed is the first thing you should do before taking a stance on something, especially one so strong as to discourage others from trying something.

Like I said, for the sake of making the release game fun, why not persevere just a little and provide some productive feedback on the forums. While I know many people treat betas as just a free preview of the game, there is testing to be done and reports to be made. It's an integral part of the game's development and a chance for the player base to really have some input. But just giving up within the first hour because you aren't winning matches isn't going to help anybody.

More so that I was pointing out the ridiculousness of getting upset over a game having issues while it's still in testing.

You can read my thoughts on having fun vs testing and feedback earlier in the post.


Because you signed up to beta test it?

See previous reponse.

i thought it was a pre-beta...

anyways, guildwars failed at drawing attention to the fact that they had an unbelievable pvp system, albeit sometimes buggy, was far superior and completely original in comparison to anything else on the market at the time. Its been stated time and time again that an overwhelming percentage of the players did not even know the game had a PVP side, let alone buy the game for that reason. Sad as the game was really fun and slowly has died.

More importantly though a new genre was made with guildwars, and many of us our looking for these up and coming games. I know that I am very anxious to play these games as they come out, to hopefully fill the shoes where guildwars once stood.

yes gw had a good idea going but has now failed because they tried to cater to everybody.

In case they haven't gotten the message:

YOU CAN'T BALANCE PVP AND PVE WITHOUT SEPARATING THE SKILL SET

You can, because theoretically anything is possibly. It's just that no one has managed to pull it off.

I play UT2K4....i suck at it...badly. But i still play. Cause i have lots of fun even when i get killed a lot. Theres something intrisically fun for me about the game itself even if im losing badly. When i did beta for Navy Field and and i had my little german frigates getting destroyed cause everything was so frickin imbalanced (friggin japanese torp boats!), i still played cause there was fun in there.

I didnt have fun on Fury. It didnt grow on me. It wasnt fun on my first try. It was frustration and annoyance.

beta or not, the core of the game didnt appeal to me.

Quit GW and wait for Fury? Seriously look at the amount of PVP content compaired to the amount of PVE content. Even in just the original campaign. If you want a pvp game, then go play a pvp game. Isn't lineage one? How about Shadowbane? It's not hard to find one. If you think the pvp in this game is bad, try playing the endless sea of crap that is grind for levels and gear to win. The pvp in this game is actualy pretty good. I'm not saying it's the best by all means, but it doesn't suck either. I'm also tired of seeing the term "PVE whiners", PVP whiners is just as accurate.

As a side note I enjoy both parts of the game. Anyway whatever. Seriously though if some of you hate GW that much then MOVE ON!!! Find something you enjoy. Unless ofcourse you enjoy ranting about GW all day, then I got nothing for you.

Hey, look at the PAX event, looks like a fun thing done by ANet .

Sums up my beta experience too. The Tabula Rasa beta's not bad though. Sort of akward gameplay but fun after I got the hang of it...I got the hang of Fury and it just pissed me off more because I was a noticeably lower rank than half the people I was up against.

Cut down on the debate about Fury itself - game discussion this forum may be, but it's meant for Guild Wars discussion. That said, I can't see how anyone actually has trouble with rank issues, since it's beyond easy to advance.

Guild Wars was pretty close in Prophecies, but adding so many more skills and effects is like dropping your game onto a roulette wheel and hoping it ends up on 'balance'.

wow, i made a thread pretty much stating that very thing and all it did was turn into flame bait. surprise surprise.

Fury is currently pretty terrible and I expect it to do much worse than even Vanguard unless there's some serious design changes.

Come on, people, you know you want to love Fury.

How else are we going to get rid of PvPers?

No kidding! pvp ers are never satisfied.Essentially, every loss they take is Anet's fault. Always.

I think GW is not really a competitive game. It never really was, and it changed significantly over time.

It never got the love and effort a PvP game requires if it wants to thrive. It is now much more focused towards PvE than ever and PvP got almost no love over the years.

I do not really count skillbalances and new maps as new PvP content. They are just the necessary basics of PvP. New classes and skills can be called new content maybe, but these are shared with PvE.

The latest additions to PvP:
1. Faction Battles: Casual PvP
2. Hero Battles: Solo PvP one vs one - some say it is no proper PvP, but it is not PvE either
3. Automated Tournaments - should have been there from the start, not after the 3rd campaign, tbh. And they are still in a rather shabby and sad state.


I am sorry, but changing HA from 8 to 6 and back to 8 or adding/removing Kill Count does not really add too much new pvp content...

As is the sad state of the ladder, it was always a bit meaningless. With AT's it is now worth even less.



This said, they COULD have done much much more for PvP:

Much more new game modes.
More arenas.
Really good and working automated tournaments.
better pvp rewards.


With this lack of enthusiasm, how can GW become part of leagues like the ESL e.g.?


At the moment ANet is still putting a lot of work into their dwindling PvP community. IMO they have to make a proper design decision for GW2: PvE game or PvP game?


PvE gamers get most of the new stuff, but always have to cry because of necessary nerfs because of PvP. I guess Ritualists will soon cry in agony if they continue to butcher, sorry balance, stuff once it is identified a problem. This often lacks any love for PvE.

On the other hand, PvP gets nothing else than balances, nothing else at all, I feel much more meaningful additions to GvG, HA and tournaments should have been there for ages by now. Really new stuff. Not a constant build and skills debate.


So both sides of gameplay suffer from neglection or because of the other, and PvE and PvP players go at each other's throat in forums, with a lot of drama involved.

They have to respect both sides or focus on one.



GW2 seems to become a PvE game, more mmo standard style. With a lot of VEERY casual PvP, World Battles seems to be like Alliance Battles in their basics.

But you will have everything unlocked from the start for PvP. At least they said so.


But this seperation of a huge crowd of casual PvP and PvE players and more sophisticated PvP players is going to have the same problems as GW1.

They should make the PvP part a game of its own. If they mix it with the PvE/MMO part again, the crap starts flying again, too.

I'm pretty sure Guild Wars doesnt get into tournament leagues because ArenaNet doesn't allow Guild Wars to be used for any tournament outside of ones it runs.

Any one do the fury weekend

I tried fury at the weekend and I really found it hard to play. I was completely clueless to what I had to do and just kept being owned by all the higher rank people. Not fun to play

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot No kidding! PvE'ers are never satisfied.Essentially, every loss they take is the PvP'ers fault. Always.

I believe that about covers it.

Pull up a chair, everybody! It's that time again! Time to play the Blame Game!

Honestly, when will people on this site grow up?

You destroyed Guild Wars.

PvP is in such a bad place. I think its just karma

Anyway....to the OP of this nonesensical derailed thread.

Theres no direct correlation between Fury getting into CPL to Anet failing.

Fury is pure PvP. Hell, its a hack-slash practically FPS game.

Guild Wars is not. The PvE side of Guild Wars gives it a significantly different focus.

Its like saying....Lance Armstrong won the Tour De France, which means Jeff Gordon failed. One is obviously focused on the Tour De France, the other is not, even if both are "racers".

Compare apples to apples.

If Guild Wars was completely PvP then your statements would actually hold water.

i read a post somewhere on guru that a 3rd party wanted to sponser a tourny, i'll have to go find that.