A while ago, in mid 2006, I did a drawing for someone and it featured a sword that many people liked (along with the armor). Fast forward to Nightfall and there is a sword at the end which many are now familiar with, the Forgotten Sword. These two swords look incredibly similar as shown below. This has happened once before with another game. So what's going on? Are they stealing my ideas, or is it just pure coincidence? I know that I'm not going to put anything on the web I don't want the possibility of being filched from now on.
Concept Stolen?
Riplox
fenix
wow, if you actually DID draw that a year ago....then gg
Miral
i believe the forgotten sword was from a design-a-weapon contest.... maybe the person you did the drawing for submitted it? not sure if the results of that contest are still around, i'll look around
fenix
Yeah, I thought that it was a design contest. If that's true then the guy you did the drawing for is a jerk...
sindex
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Miral
i believe the forgotten sword was from a design-a-weapon contest.... maybe the person you did the drawing for submitted it? not sure if the results of that contest are still around, i'll look around
|
Riplox
Well, it could have been anyone, seeing as i posted it under an armor concept design thread...I can assure you, the recipient was not a jerk.
sindex
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Riplox
Well, it could have been anyone, seeing as i posted it under an armor concept design thread...I can assure you, the recipient was not a jerk.
|
Bryant Again
Damn...That sucks, dude.
Pwny Ride
Shafted 
1234
1234
ShadowsRequiem
omg I remember looking at your picture well over a year ago!
thats a terrible same that people have to steal ideas off of great artists.
There was a thread with the guys guru name who actually designed the "forgotten sword" it might have been in the nolani forum or riverside. Still unsure about the correct form.
imo thats a straight copy
thats a terrible same that people have to steal ideas off of great artists.
There was a thread with the guys guru name who actually designed the "forgotten sword" it might have been in the nolani forum or riverside. Still unsure about the correct form.
imo thats a straight copy
cce
if not, then your SOL
The bottom line is that while your drawing is *similar* to what they implemented, I doubt that it is a copyright violation. It's a curved sword with a hook at the top and such. Frankly, it's nice that you can draw so well, but.. it is hardly "theft" in any way shape or manner. Furthermore, there are 100's of real swords in museum collections with all sorts of shapes and sizes, hooks, curls, crevices, etc. -- we're not even talking about the thousands upon thousands of sword drawings people have done over the years. There is just a ton of prior art in this field, even if the drawings are similar, unless you can show that they are almost identical, there is little you can do.
Fainally, if you stop posting your drawings, you only punish yourself.
The bottom line is that while your drawing is *similar* to what they implemented, I doubt that it is a copyright violation. It's a curved sword with a hook at the top and such. Frankly, it's nice that you can draw so well, but.. it is hardly "theft" in any way shape or manner. Furthermore, there are 100's of real swords in museum collections with all sorts of shapes and sizes, hooks, curls, crevices, etc. -- we're not even talking about the thousands upon thousands of sword drawings people have done over the years. There is just a ton of prior art in this field, even if the drawings are similar, unless you can show that they are almost identical, there is little you can do.
Fainally, if you stop posting your drawings, you only punish yourself.
Issac
If it make you feel better I think the sword looks better in your drawing then it does ingame lol.
Aera Lure
As an aside, the drawing is nicer than the actual sword in the game, imho. The blade shape in the drawing is more elegant with the angles on the cutting side of the blade. Good job on that.
Edit: Ah, lol. Issac beat me to it. ^^
Edit: Ah, lol. Issac beat me to it. ^^
Chthon
Contact Gaile. Ask if she can fish out the winning contest entry and compare it with your artwork.
Onarik Amrak
You need a tinfoil hat as well.
gasmaskman
If it's 90% or more like the drawing it is copyright infringement as you do not need any formal document saying it is copyrighted by you.
Gaile Gray
Guys,
Please let me offer a little voice of reason here. There are many traditional sword designs, and there's really nothing terrifically unique about either the Forgotten Sword or the drawing that the OP posted. No offense intended -- it's a very nice drawing and the sword in the game is lovely! However, you're reading the words of the person who looked at every single drawing for every single Design-A-Weapon Contest, and I could go through the entries right now and find you a dozen swords that look like either the game sword or the sketch.
There's a blade, a hilt, and some ornamentation. Differences in size, of course, and in the shape of the elements, but there's only so much you can do before it becomes a dagger. Or a spork.
Anyway, we get more sword entries than anything else, and when you look at this year's winner you're going to see similarities to both the posted images, too. In all honesty, I don't think anyone stole anything.
Please let me offer a little voice of reason here. There are many traditional sword designs, and there's really nothing terrifically unique about either the Forgotten Sword or the drawing that the OP posted. No offense intended -- it's a very nice drawing and the sword in the game is lovely! However, you're reading the words of the person who looked at every single drawing for every single Design-A-Weapon Contest, and I could go through the entries right now and find you a dozen swords that look like either the game sword or the sketch.
There's a blade, a hilt, and some ornamentation. Differences in size, of course, and in the shape of the elements, but there's only so much you can do before it becomes a dagger. Or a spork.
Anyway, we get more sword entries than anything else, and when you look at this year's winner you're going to see similarities to both the posted images, too. In all honesty, I don't think anyone stole anything.
Bithor the Dog
you could draw similarities to all the images to loads of swords.
Go and google "hadhafang sword" in images and you have a similarity already.
And the makers of that sword could go around saying exactly what you are too i believe.
IMO if you are that serious about copyrighting ( and for the un-knowing copyright is automatic as long as you can prove it legally) maybe try investing in digital watermarking of your images, such as digimarc (if im not allowed to post company names like that can the mods please edit)
Design patent would wash as its not for something that would be made essentially. Worldwide copyright filed is the only way you could do it.
And in a legal case, I may be wrong here, someone maybe able to put me right, unless you filed copies with lawyers etc then you wont have much chance of a case holding....and i gather from your post thats something that could have sprung to mind, why post it otherwise?
If ANET were in anyway stepping on any copyright boundaries, their lawyers would kick things into next week, and most companies involved in artwork know copyright law and where the lines are drawn, intimately. I doubt VERY much they would cross the line in lieu of a law suit over the sake of one image, especially if they could take concepts from 1000's of swords and designs and make one.
Go and google "hadhafang sword" in images and you have a similarity already.
And the makers of that sword could go around saying exactly what you are too i believe.
IMO if you are that serious about copyrighting ( and for the un-knowing copyright is automatic as long as you can prove it legally) maybe try investing in digital watermarking of your images, such as digimarc (if im not allowed to post company names like that can the mods please edit)
Design patent would wash as its not for something that would be made essentially. Worldwide copyright filed is the only way you could do it.
And in a legal case, I may be wrong here, someone maybe able to put me right, unless you filed copies with lawyers etc then you wont have much chance of a case holding....and i gather from your post thats something that could have sprung to mind, why post it otherwise?
If ANET were in anyway stepping on any copyright boundaries, their lawyers would kick things into next week, and most companies involved in artwork know copyright law and where the lines are drawn, intimately. I doubt VERY much they would cross the line in lieu of a law suit over the sake of one image, especially if they could take concepts from 1000's of swords and designs and make one.
KiyaKoreena
Im sorry but the only similarity is the wave to the blade, which is not enough to claim copying. The pommel and hilt are different as well as that the blade spikes up on the forgotten sword near the base. That is more then enough to make them different ideas.
There are only so many variations before similarities seem to appear all over the place.
There are only so many variations before similarities seem to appear all over the place.
ShadowsRequiem
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Guys,
Please let me offer a little voice of reason here. There are many traditional sword designs, and there's really nothing terrifically unique about either the Forgotten Sword or the drawing that the OP posted. No offense intended -- it's a very nice drawing and the sword in the game is lovely! However, you're reading the words of the person who looked at every single drawing for every single Design-A-Weapon Contest, and I could go through the entries right now and find you a dozen swords that look like either the game sword or the sketch. There's a blade, a hilt, and some ornamentation. Differences in size, of course, and in the shape of the elements, but there's only so much you can do before it becomes a dagger. Or a spork. Anyway, we get more sword entries than anything else, and when you look at this year's winner you're going to see similarities to both the posted images, too. In all honesty, I don't think anyone stole anything. |
Traditional sword designs? Please show me a sword that looks similar to this? Name any katana, Dao, scimitars, rapiers, sabers... etc
The problem is this isn’t just a "similar" design as you bluntly put it. This is a FULL BLOWN rip-off, I’ll bold it just for you.
You can clearly see the hilt, guard, the very small cross, and even the fuller is ripped off. You can see the hamon is also the same in both swords. Well I guess it doesnt hurt to put a small change to the hilt when rippin off peoples work now does it?
As with the not much you can do with it statement.... have you seen every single part that makes up a sword? Doesn’t seem like it.
IMO that winner sword is another cheap take off this sword. It's hard to believe someone can win a contest by just redesigning a sword and changing the blade. Yay for creativity?
it would be different if this design wasnt seen in a large thread for over a year.
Bowstring Badass
Glacial Blade = new skinned forgotten sword with different mods and colors. You know how many people entered that design? You might as well say you are going to sue everyone who entered that in a contest good luck finding them.
Patrick Smit
OMG, it's a sword, I need to ask the designers for fees to my patents on the hilt and blade ideas.
Soz, but if it is not exactly similar they didn't steal anything, and if you didn't copyright it, there is nothing you could even do about it. Even with colleagues you need to be very careful these days, if they say you are not a team player because you don't share information, they will slander your name behind your back and it actually means you are not on "his" or "her" team, working for his or her career. So much for intellectual property, integrity, and honor, bottom line, don't trust anyone. I can tell you a couple of stories if you wish.
Soz, but if it is not exactly similar they didn't steal anything, and if you didn't copyright it, there is nothing you could even do about it. Even with colleagues you need to be very careful these days, if they say you are not a team player because you don't share information, they will slander your name behind your back and it actually means you are not on "his" or "her" team, working for his or her career. So much for intellectual property, integrity, and honor, bottom line, don't trust anyone. I can tell you a couple of stories if you wish.
Operative 14
I mean no disrespect to the original Author of that art, it is probably the best piece like that that I have ever seen.
However, I think it might be interesting to note the following photo of The Arwen Hadhafang Sword, a prop that was made for LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring which was released in 2001, five years before that art work was created. (This is a recreation prop that was made for the Noble collection)
To me, the two look almost indistinguishable. Certainly much more closely related than the GW version of the authors item. I don't think Arena Net would have any reason to steal someone elses work like that. And, really, after you make 91 seperate sword skins (I counted the skins that are listed on GWWiki) what are the chances they would stumble on something that resembles that design...?
However, I think it might be interesting to note the following photo of The Arwen Hadhafang Sword, a prop that was made for LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring which was released in 2001, five years before that art work was created. (This is a recreation prop that was made for the Noble collection)
To me, the two look almost indistinguishable. Certainly much more closely related than the GW version of the authors item. I don't think Arena Net would have any reason to steal someone elses work like that. And, really, after you make 91 seperate sword skins (I counted the skins that are listed on GWWiki) what are the chances they would stumble on something that resembles that design...?
Qual
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
I don’t think you really can understand this, because you have not had something you designed ripped off and past as someone else’s work. Imo walk into any school now, read the rules about stealing works, you'll see there are HUGE penalties for doing this.
Traditional sword designs? Please show me a sword that looks similar to this? Name any katana, Dao, scimitars, rapiers, sabers... etc The problem is this isn’t just a "similar" design as you bluntly put it. This is a FULL BLOWN rip-off, I’ll bold it just for you. You can clearly see the hilt, guard, the very small cross, and even the fuller is ripped off. You can see the hamon is also the same in both swords. Well I guess it doesnt hurt to put a small change to the hilt when rippin off peoples work now does it? As with the not much you can do with it statement.... have you seen every single part that makes up a sword? Doesn’t seem like it. IMO that winner sword is another cheap take off this sword. It's hard to believe someone can win a contest by just redesigning a sword and changing the blade. Yay for creativity? it would be different if this design wasnt seen in a large thread for over a year. |
ilovecp
No offence to the OP's work but I personally don't see enough of a similarity between the two designs to suggest plagiarism.
A clearer picture from guildwiki of the forgotten sword for comparison
A clearer picture from guildwiki of the forgotten sword for comparison
Vilaptca
While your sword is great and all...Have you seen what the artists the Guild Wars crew can do?
The stuff that they make in house is far superior to your drawing. There is no reason a company would steal...that.
And no, while they are similar, they are not the same, they are not identical. The one is not the other. I see no reason to acuse anyone of stealing here.
The stuff that they make in house is far superior to your drawing. There is no reason a company would steal...that.
And no, while they are similar, they are not the same, they are not identical. The one is not the other. I see no reason to acuse anyone of stealing here.
Voltar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak
You need a tinfoil hat as well.
|
twicky_kid
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
IMO that winner sword is another cheap take off this sword. It's hard to believe someone can win a contest by just redesigning a sword and changing the blade. Yay for creativity?
it would be different if this design wasnt seen in a large thread for over a year. |
Look at any marketing company. They all steal each other's ideas and rehash old ones with small twist.
Go to any art school in the country. The first they teach you to do is COPY some one else's drawing. Drawing is a learned skill. Talent only gives you a head start but anyone can do it. Copying other's art is how this is achieved. Naturally when you copy images to learn to draw it will influence your own work and style.
In the grand scheme of things nothing is original anymore. It all comes from something that came before it. That sword is pretty generic really. If you are that paranoid or want to protect your work get the digital marks to copyright your work to protect yourself.
Miral
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Operative 14
I mean no disrespect to the original Author of that art, it is probably the best piece like that that I have ever seen.
However, I think it might be interesting to note the following photo of The Arwen Hadhafang Sword, a prop that was made for LOTR: The Fellowship of the Ring which was released in 2001, five years before that art work was created. (This is a recreation prop that was made for the Noble collection) To me, the two look almost indistinguishable. Certainly much more closely related than the GW version of the authors item. I don't think Arena Net would have any reason to steal someone elses work like that. And, really, after you make 91 seperate sword skins (I counted the skins that are listed on GWWiki) what are the chances they would stumble on something that resembles that design...? |
Redfeather1975
OP, that drawing is really good!
But, I have to say. The drawing and the actual forgotten sword have quite a few differences. Different etchings on the blade, hilt and pommel, and even what direction the blade curves. Also the forgotten sword doesn't have the straight edge and opposite pointy tip at the bottom of the blade.
They are quite different, and any similarities that may be seen are bound to happen when you consider how many different variations of a blade on a handle there can possibly be.
Here's the wiki's closeup of the Forgotten sword.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:Forgotten_Sword.jpg
But, I have to say. The drawing and the actual forgotten sword have quite a few differences. Different etchings on the blade, hilt and pommel, and even what direction the blade curves. Also the forgotten sword doesn't have the straight edge and opposite pointy tip at the bottom of the blade.
They are quite different, and any similarities that may be seen are bound to happen when you consider how many different variations of a blade on a handle there can possibly be.
Here's the wiki's closeup of the Forgotten sword.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Image:Forgotten_Sword.jpg
sindex
I find certain things taken for granted so much now, when it comes to other peoples work. Pirating, plagiarism and so on, have become a frequent usage among the common public; it’s depressing that there is just no original thought out there at times. Yes I know there is a fine line behind taking something else and enhancing the idea with a few tweaks, to copy and pasting.
I mean how you guys feel if someone made almost the exact twin of Guild Wars itself, but called it Rouge Wars instead. The defense would be, “we used our own code to make this game, and there is plenty other Online RPG that are the same as ours (not just GW)”. I mean I can see the lawsuits flying then; but when it comes to the little guy some people could just care less. Very, very, sad indeed.
I mean how you guys feel if someone made almost the exact twin of Guild Wars itself, but called it Rouge Wars instead. The defense would be, “we used our own code to make this game, and there is plenty other Online RPG that are the same as ours (not just GW)”. I mean I can see the lawsuits flying then; but when it comes to the little guy some people could just care less. Very, very, sad indeed.
Xanthar
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
Traditional sword designs? Please show me a sword that looks similar to this? Name any katana, Dao, scimitars, rapiers, sabers... etc
|
Last picture in the OP of this thread on the myArmoury forums, shows a timeline of swords, passing through the Khopesh and the Sappara (four and five from the left), two blade types very similar to the one in the OP.
Cineris
This thread is absurd.
Maybe if you had created a 3D model and texture and somehow had evidence to suggest that Guild Wars used your model, you'd have a legitimate complaint. As it is, all you did was make a drawing with a weapon that looks like thousands of other exotic weapons in fantasy art. Get over yourself.
Maybe if you had created a 3D model and texture and somehow had evidence to suggest that Guild Wars used your model, you'd have a legitimate complaint. As it is, all you did was make a drawing with a weapon that looks like thousands of other exotic weapons in fantasy art. Get over yourself.
Shadis
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cineris
This thread is absurd.
Maybe if you had created a 3D model and texture and somehow had evidence to suggest that Guild Wars used your model, you'd have a legitimate complaint. As it is, all you did was make a drawing with a weapon that looks like thousands of other exotic weapons in fantasy art. Get over yourself. |
Perynne
These days rarely any artwork is 100% original anymore. So many people have drawn so many different things, it's nearly impossible not to have similarities between someone else's work. Like Xanthar nicely pointed out, that sword has the same basic structure as a historical sword, and probably has been recreated millions of times in fantasy art. It's just coincidence that the two look alike.
Copying someone's work is downright disgusting when it's an exact copy of the original. However, if it's only one single work that looks similar to another (and the person who supposedly copied it is trusted and has done lots of original work before) then it's better to give the benefit of the doubt first time. These days everyone and their dog designs new fantasy armor/swords/jewelry/etc and it's just impossible to keep everything completely original.
I'm against copyright breaking and stealing other people's art is the worst crime you can do, but unless the person is clearly ripping others off and does it over and over again, then you really won't know if it ever was intentional. Who knows, maybe one day you design something you think is really original, and then someone comes along and says they already did it years ago.
That's just how it is in the art business these days. People recycle old ideas, and sometimes unconsciously modify newer ones. You're only hurting yourself if you stop posting up your art - there will always be similar works out there. What really defines an artist is how well they can stand out against all the plagiarism without being swallowed by it. Some cases you'll just have to write off as coincidence. And if your style is really original, your fans will definitely know when someone is clearly ripping off your work and help to stop that person.
Copying someone's work is downright disgusting when it's an exact copy of the original. However, if it's only one single work that looks similar to another (and the person who supposedly copied it is trusted and has done lots of original work before) then it's better to give the benefit of the doubt first time. These days everyone and their dog designs new fantasy armor/swords/jewelry/etc and it's just impossible to keep everything completely original.
I'm against copyright breaking and stealing other people's art is the worst crime you can do, but unless the person is clearly ripping others off and does it over and over again, then you really won't know if it ever was intentional. Who knows, maybe one day you design something you think is really original, and then someone comes along and says they already did it years ago.
That's just how it is in the art business these days. People recycle old ideas, and sometimes unconsciously modify newer ones. You're only hurting yourself if you stop posting up your art - there will always be similar works out there. What really defines an artist is how well they can stand out against all the plagiarism without being swallowed by it. Some cases you'll just have to write off as coincidence. And if your style is really original, your fans will definitely know when someone is clearly ripping off your work and help to stop that person.
Bithor the Dog
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
I don’t think you really can understand this, because you have not had something you designed ripped off and past as someone else’s work. Imo walk into any school now, read the rules about stealing works, you'll see there are HUGE penalties for doing this.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
Traditional sword designs? Please show me a sword that looks similar to this? Name any katana, Dao, scimitars, rapiers, sabers... etc
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
The problem is this isn’t just a "similar" design as you bluntly put it. This is a FULL BLOWN rip-off, I’ll bold it just for you.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
You can clearly see the hilt, guard, the very small cross, and even the fuller is ripped off. You can see the hamon is also the same in both swords. Well I guess it doesnt hurt to put a small change to the hilt when rippin off peoples work now does it?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
As with the not much you can do with it statement.... have you seen every single part that makes up a sword? Doesn’t seem like it.
|
**cough its a game Cough**
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
IMO that winner sword is another cheap take off this sword. It's hard to believe someone can win a contest by just redesigning a sword and changing the blade. Yay for creativity?
|
As an "artist" ill use that term loosley, as it appears you are someone who likes to sketch, and that isnt the only medium art work has been designed on here, and from what i can see you are particularly favouring "manga" styling, you should have a broad outlook and perception as to what is and isnt art to others. Most artists would have a "live and let live" attitude. Yours seems to smack of "i'm right you are all wrong because you know nothing of art"
I may also be wrong but the OP's drawing image was "watermarked" (eventually) within Adobe CS2. I would be interested to know how a 21 year old can afford such an expensive application.
As i said i may be wrong, he/she may have it at college or something but interesting to note that some people just "rip off" software companies these days for their own needs...Pot - Kettle - Black...if thats the case...
if im wrong i apologise and If proven wrong will retract that part of my post
Anphobia
in other news, I think you should do a colour version of that drawing!
Superdarth
I noticed many of those opposing the theory that it was ripped grosly underestimate the similarities between the two. Its not just "similar" its nearly completely identical, i know theres a good chance sompthing similar to the sword was submitted, maybe even more then once. But the chance that the almost exact same design was thought up by someone else is very small, especially considering that the slight diffrences where probably applied by A-net after recieving the drawing.
By the way nice drawing!
By the way nice drawing!
spellsword
They don't look that similiar to me. There is some resemblance, but not enough to call it a ripoff.
Also, sappara.
Also, sappara.
Noanoa
It's perfectly possible for two people (or three, or three hundred) to come up with the same concept, especially when it comes to fantasy weapons and armor
. I also remember drawing something similar when I was younger, which was in turn inspired by pictures of historical weaponry.I agree that the pictures in the OP look very, very similar, but when considering the amount of sword art and photos floating around, it's not surprising at all. I've also seen clothes in stores that I'd doodled years before and thought them fine and original. It happens, and unless there's some obvious connection, it's only coincidence.