Wouldn't we be better without a Favor system?
The point of the original Favor system, back in April 2005, was to give PvE players an incentive to PvP. It failed in that regard; PvE players did not enjoy the serious nature of Tombs.
Another point was to give significance to the [back then] high-end areas Fissure of Woe and Underworld.
Now, fast forward 2 years, and both of these points are obsolete.
The first point remains true; PvErs generally do not participate in Heroes' Ascent.
The second point is my cause for concern; why does access to FoW/UW matter if, over time, the rewards for both of those areas have become obsolete? The Elite Missions Urgoz/Deep/DoA have a much better risk::reward ratio and a better time::reward ratio than UW/FoW. (you have a guranteed green/gold from the end-mission chests in the Elite Mission, and you have a very low chance at a Shard/Ecto drop or Chest Purple in FoW/UW)
The only argument I see in favor of UW/FoW would be easy EXP from quests. Who actually cares about EXP?
Just open up UW/FoW to everyone, remove the Favor system completely, everyone is happy. Refusing worldwide access to technically inferior areas is almost...elitist.
What's the point of the Favor system?
Zinger314
Symeon
Limiting access to FoW/UW was and is partly intended to keep ectos/shards at such prices that the cost of FoW armour remains high. ANet realised that people use ectos for currency in high end trading and surely wanted to keep that balanced.
Havre Fras
The 1k people pay is all thats really needed. Hell, put the price up so long as favour is removed! I never visit those areas in the first place so, to be honest, I don't really mind about it.
Sujoy
This was already discussed... FoW/UW were considered the most hardest area of the game, maybe still is, but it's still challenging and requires some thinking to beat the area fully, so having the Favor system could be to reduce the insurgence of ectos and farmers, or better yet to make the area inaccessible unless won in HA, which may also point to more HA playing from PvE playerbase...
Bryant Again
The favor system is now about getting you to grind.
bamm bamm bamm
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
The favor system is now about getting you to grind.
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With the new system people aren't actually going to spend weeks maxing a title just to get into a dungeon for an hour, but just sit in ToA naked and rely on people already doing that for their own reasons (fun, e-peen, etc).
In what way is this getting people to grind?
Darkobra
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
The favor system is now about getting you to grind.
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Navaros
Well Zinger I generally agree with your post except that you are not taking into account Ecto and Shard solo farmers, in which case their rewards are not obsolete, their reward:time and risk:reward ratio is better than the Urgoz/Deep players.
Scrapping Favor entirely would indeed have the been the best route in my view. Maybe put back in the anti-farming code to compensate and ramp it up a few notches too.
Scrapping Favor entirely would indeed have the been the best route in my view. Maybe put back in the anti-farming code to compensate and ramp it up a few notches too.
eazz
I think the favor system now is about having something dynamic in the pve world with the buff statues in explorables turning on and off. .. its kind of like having a day night cycle.. cept with buffs available, not much graphic change, and it's related to player activity... oh and obviously it's about better recognition for PvE.. they didnt really have a broadcast achievement like HoH did before.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
This system didn't lure me in either. I hate grinding. And yet we all know that when GW:EN comes out and you need to grind for those magma gloves, I'll grind like there's no tomorrow. BUT I WON'T ENJOY IT! I WILL GRIND WITH BITTERNESS!
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Secondly, if I'm gonna grind it's gonna be in WoW, where the rewards for grinding are actually worth it.
I'm saying this because you make it sound like I'm against grinding and hate ANet for this change. Just being safe, it is the internet after all.
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Originally Posted by bamm bamm bamm
In what way is this getting people to grind?
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At least people'll know that I'm R500 Superduperspearmarshall now! *major e-ween flex*
lennymon
I agree that favor is now obsolete, so who cares what makes it work... I go to UW less than once for each free scroll that drops (and I sell the FoW scrolls to merch).
Zinger, since when do you make statements with glaring assumptions in them? Usually you at least camouflage them better. Sheesh since when are you or anyone on Guru more than just delusionally knowing Anet's intentions more than 2 years ago...
Zinger, since when do you make statements with glaring assumptions in them? Usually you at least camouflage them better. Sheesh since when are you or anyone on Guru more than just delusionally knowing Anet's intentions more than 2 years ago...
bilateralrope
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Originally Posted by King Symeon
Limiting access to FoW/UW was and is partly intended to keep ectos/shards at such prices that the cost of FoW armour remains high. ANet realised that people use ectos for currency in high end trading and surely wanted to keep that balanced.
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Originally Posted by lennymon
I agree that favor is now obsolete, so who cares what makes it work... I go to UW less than once for each free scroll that drops (and I sell the FoW scrolls to merch).
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The scroll trader would give you a better price for them. And currently the trader hasn't built up a stock so by selling to him your helping the GW community by helping the trader get in stock.
The HoH favor system limited access to when you were lucky enough to have HA players from your region being better than the other regions HA players. With this current system you now need to be lucky enough about when people max out their titles, which should be more often when more people are online (Personally I doubt that this change will make much effect on the number of people going for a title). So while I think the current system is more fair to everyone, I still don't understand why one is needed.
Kakumei
There is no point. The new system is (marginally?) better than the old one, but still idiotic. You're still relying on what other people do to decide what you get to do, and that's terrible game design.
Phaern Majes
Well since Anet loves their titles (and I'll admit I do try a for a couple of them) they should add another title for favor. Since this new favor system is title based why not make it that each one of those specific titles adds a rank to the favor title. When you get your favor title to rank 5 or w/e you get favor always regardless.
I know thats just another KoaBD. And I'm not saying it has to be that specific way. I'm just saying they should offer a means through which you can eventually gain favor on a permanent basis for your char/account.
The way I suggest would give a better incentive to go for those titles. A lot of those titles are major gold sinks. I think its around 350k-ish just for Legendary Skill Hunter, assuming you don't use tomes and buy all your signets. I'm sure sweet tooth, drunkard, treasure hunter, etc are all major gold sinks as well. I'm just saying by the time you've invested the amount of gold into it that is required to obtain the max level of all those titles, you more than deserve to have favor whenever you so please. Just my thoughts.
I know thats just another KoaBD. And I'm not saying it has to be that specific way. I'm just saying they should offer a means through which you can eventually gain favor on a permanent basis for your char/account.
The way I suggest would give a better incentive to go for those titles. A lot of those titles are major gold sinks. I think its around 350k-ish just for Legendary Skill Hunter, assuming you don't use tomes and buy all your signets. I'm sure sweet tooth, drunkard, treasure hunter, etc are all major gold sinks as well. I'm just saying by the time you've invested the amount of gold into it that is required to obtain the max level of all those titles, you more than deserve to have favor whenever you so please. Just my thoughts.
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by bamm bamm bamm
With the old system no-one ever actually went to HA to get favor, they just sat in ToA naked and relied on the people who already played HA for their own reasons (fun, e-peen, etc).
With the new system people aren't actually going to spend weeks maxing a title just to get into a dungeon for an hour, but just sit in ToA naked and rely on people already doing that for their own reasons (fun, e-peen, etc). In what way is this getting people to grind? |
People HA for fun/e-peen.
People title for fun?/e-peen.
People never did HA for favor, at least not for 2 years. People don't spend 6 million gold maxing sweet tooth title so they can go to FoW. Is it good that they broke it away from PvP? Yeah, but why do they attach it to something that people do regardless? Encourage people to grind out a max title every time they want to do FoW? I'm sure that is going to work good.
"Hey guildies, lets go to FoW later on tonight. I'm going to try and max this title at around 7PM, so lets go to FoW at 7:10"
Who the f*** is going to do that? Using favor to try and promote things in the game is equal to fail, especially things that CAN'T BE DONE IN ANY REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME.
Roshi_ikkyu
I just wanted to bust in to the Zinger thread to say, You know we've had Favour like all day.
ZOMG world wide favour for the entire day, 2days after its changed. The end is near!
On a serious note I glad PvP doesn't influence PvE, and I'm happy that taiwan and Japan can get some FOW loving.
Plus I'm thinking that GWEN might release some new interest in the area, or make use of the other statues in TOA.
ZOMG world wide favour for the entire day, 2days after its changed. The end is near!
On a serious note I glad PvP doesn't influence PvE, and I'm happy that taiwan and Japan can get some FOW loving.
Plus I'm thinking that GWEN might release some new interest in the area, or make use of the other statues in TOA.
MoldyRiceFrenzy
i cant get anyhting in uw neways, i give up =(.
Macabre Fate
I think that you are definitely right in thinking that the first method of obtaining Favor was intended to persuade players to play some more PvP. This was, in many eyes, a failure. So, they've given us this new system, which encourages players to work together to meet the goal.
However, I personally feel that removing Favor would make the Fissure or the Underworld feel less special. However, I also feel that Favor will die down in intensity after a few days, and that it will become available when most players need it- namely the weekends.
However, I personally feel that removing Favor would make the Fissure or the Underworld feel less special. However, I also feel that Favor will die down in intensity after a few days, and that it will become available when most players need it- namely the weekends.
Flippy_Skreem
The old HA way was better for one reason... you could repeat it if you wanted.
This new method means that once you have attained all the titiles (no mean feat, but possible) you have no way to contribute to the opening of the UW/FoW. Add to that that some titles carry over all the chars on ur account, and it becomes more limited.
After that, whats the option - buy char slots to start the grind again... more cash for ANet.
This new method means that once you have attained all the titiles (no mean feat, but possible) you have no way to contribute to the opening of the UW/FoW. Add to that that some titles carry over all the chars on ur account, and it becomes more limited.
After that, whats the option - buy char slots to start the grind again... more cash for ANet.
-Loki-
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Originally Posted by Flippy_Skreem
The old HA way was better for one reason... you could repeat it if you wanted.
This new method means that once you have attained all the titiles (no mean feat, but possible) you have no way to contribute to the opening of the UW/FoW. Add to that that some titles carry over all the chars on ur account, and it becomes more limited. After that, whats the option - buy char slots to start the grind again... more cash for ANet. |
Rusty Deth
They already opened up FOW and UW to everyone.
WTS Scrolls!!! Not only are those areas accessable to everyone, but you can make money selling scrolls. So really you can make money of the open access.
But the new system isn't about FoW or UW. Its about PvE players having access to the buff shrines. So it only makes sense to have the PvE community be part of the favor system so they can take adavantage of the buff shrines.
And this " hey I gonna max a title so we can go into UW" idea is beyond retarded. I sat in town trying to sell stuff and announcements where popping up all over with people advancing in their ranks.
Remember anything Anet changes is for the community in whole, not for one person.
If you don't go for titles, that doesn't mean everyone does the same.
WTS Scrolls!!! Not only are those areas accessable to everyone, but you can make money selling scrolls. So really you can make money of the open access.
But the new system isn't about FoW or UW. Its about PvE players having access to the buff shrines. So it only makes sense to have the PvE community be part of the favor system so they can take adavantage of the buff shrines.
And this " hey I gonna max a title so we can go into UW" idea is beyond retarded. I sat in town trying to sell stuff and announcements where popping up all over with people advancing in their ranks.
Remember anything Anet changes is for the community in whole, not for one person.
If you don't go for titles, that doesn't mean everyone does the same.
bilateralrope
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Originally Posted by Flippy_Skreem
The old HA way was better for one reason... you could repeat it if you wanted.
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And how many were there for some other reason ?
Actually a while back I asked about how many HA players cared about favor. The general consensus was that most of them had other reasons and favor was, at best, a nice thing on top of the other rewards. Sure I'll admit that the linked thread doesn't count as much evidence, but its good enough in the absence of any evidence to the contrary.
strcpy
My general guess is that is it is more to do with FoW armor - none of the other elite areas contribute to gaining it. If you are simply looking at GP/H or rarity of items then you are correct (in fact, given the state of non-Inscribable items on the player market then the UW/FoW is horrid), however there is more to those areas than that. This means that access to the most expensive armor set in the game is governed by favor, both from a materials standpoint and making it to the forge master. Even if you are purchasing your ecto/shards from the trader the price/availability are governed by favor.
I would also add that "it has always been that way" also tends to be why some things work the way they do. To note, this also is true in life in general - I'm sure you even perpetuate some things that make little sense simply because that is The Way Things are Done.
Those two reason mean that we will most likely always see favor as a mechanism in this game - though if the main reason is the second then a discussion on it may bring about some changes.
I would also add that "it has always been that way" also tends to be why some things work the way they do. To note, this also is true in life in general - I'm sure you even perpetuate some things that make little sense simply because that is The Way Things are Done.
Those two reason mean that we will most likely always see favor as a mechanism in this game - though if the main reason is the second then a discussion on it may bring about some changes.
Divinus Stella
The new system is awful, just logged on now (10AM) and theres still 20minutes of favor remaining, by 10PM there will be 200+ minutes again, its just gonna going up all day unless they remove the time bonus from titles like Sunspear and Lightbringer.
If they dont change anything it may aswel be perma open, i think the system would work with restricted time, prehaps keeping it to a select few titles rather than the bulk grind titles that take less than a day to achieve (sweet tooth, cartographer, skill hunter, LB, SS)
If they dont change anything it may aswel be perma open, i think the system would work with restricted time, prehaps keeping it to a select few titles rather than the bulk grind titles that take less than a day to achieve (sweet tooth, cartographer, skill hunter, LB, SS)
Longasc
They replaced an idiotic system with a new idiotic system.
You depend on others as much as before, now you have to hope that people grind for titles.
But: Soon LB and Sunspear titles will be depleted. New titles will be added, but I do not like the rationale behind it:
The Gods favor title grind
Suggestions:
1.) Give UW and FoW a "boss battle" and a reward chest like Urgoz/Deep/Mallyx.
These areas have become mere ecto/shard farming areas, FoW is just needed for the FoW armor crafter. NOBODY in my guild or even alliance has any incentive of doing a full run of UW or FoW anymore.
2.) Complete the god realms. Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa... before you close GW1 servers.
3.) But how to make Access to FoW/UW a worldwide thing without resorting to titles or HoH?
This weekend is by no means representative, and while I think the system is utterly flawed and leaves a very negative grind-taste in my mouth, we had quite a lot of favor!! up to now under this new system.
It seems to work better than expected, but it is only 1-2 days, and it might show its ugly face later.
You depend on others as much as before, now you have to hope that people grind for titles.
But: Soon LB and Sunspear titles will be depleted. New titles will be added, but I do not like the rationale behind it:
The Gods favor title grind
Suggestions:
1.) Give UW and FoW a "boss battle" and a reward chest like Urgoz/Deep/Mallyx.
These areas have become mere ecto/shard farming areas, FoW is just needed for the FoW armor crafter. NOBODY in my guild or even alliance has any incentive of doing a full run of UW or FoW anymore.
2.) Complete the god realms. Dwayna, Melandru, Lyssa... before you close GW1 servers.
3.) But how to make Access to FoW/UW a worldwide thing without resorting to titles or HoH?
This weekend is by no means representative, and while I think the system is utterly flawed and leaves a very negative grind-taste in my mouth, we had quite a lot of favor!! up to now under this new system.
It seems to work better than expected, but it is only 1-2 days, and it might show its ugly face later.
Flippy_Skreem
Think either people have missed the point of my post, or it was too well concealed.
Old HA way :
Create PvP char, or level one up in PvE.
Goto HA.
Win.
Rinse and repeat.
New Titles Way:
Level up in PvE.
Grind out titles.
(Now remember, some titles are account specific, not char. So when done, thats it for that account no matter how many slots you have..)
Create new character.
(If you dont have any more slots, you have 2 options. Delete the char you just spent so long on, or buy a new slot ($$$ to Anet)).
Old HA way :
Create PvP char, or level one up in PvE.
Goto HA.
Win.
Rinse and repeat.
New Titles Way:
Level up in PvE.
Grind out titles.
(Now remember, some titles are account specific, not char. So when done, thats it for that account no matter how many slots you have..)
Create new character.
(If you dont have any more slots, you have 2 options. Delete the char you just spent so long on, or buy a new slot ($$$ to Anet)).
DarkGanni
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Originally Posted by Zinger314
Just open up UW/FoW to everyone, remove the Favor system completely, everyone is happy. Refusing worldwide access to technically inferior areas is almost...elitist.
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