Guild Wars critique

Long post ahead. Written in short time, may contain spoilers and typos.

Guild Wars critique

About me
First of all, I'm an individualist and a supporter of grind-free PvP and PvE alike.
I'm a long time player, with 26 months and 3000 hours on my back.
I'm at least decent skill wise, I have rank 5 and gladiator 2. I used to play in a top 200-500 guild. I've brought many friends to Guild Wars. I'm overall a good example of a player. I help newbies, I run people for free and so on. I also monk for groups, just to help them.

Skills, builds, templates
Since the beginner of Guild Wars(GW), PUGs have been used. Since Guild Wars is a game that supposable focuses on skills, how come that it took them a year(I didn't look for the exact time), or more to implant a way to display your skills? I mean, that can be logically deduced from having a game that focuses on skills. Getting to know what skills other people use. Eventually they added the ability to ping your bar, which was faster than typing it out. After that, they implanted templates. Good thing, question remains though:

Why the hell wasn't it there to begin with?
Even this is a half-arsed solution. How can't they just make so you can always, at all times, see the skill bars of party members?

A ready botton
In a game where you play together with more players, and where players aren't always ready. One will need a way of telling if a player is ready or not. Why has this not been made? Even older RTS games have it ffs. Even if they forgot it, as an understandable mistake when they released, why did they not add it? Are you going to convince me that is it hard to make a simple “Ready botton”?

“I don't want to go to L.A!”
Travelling. Yes, GW is much better than the standard MMO. Instant travel is big plus. But why do we have to go to LA first? How hard can it be to simply change screens. I've seen it suggested over and over again, nothing happens.

Decent party search
When they released the second game, Factions, they already knew that people would spread out. Heck, even in Prophecies, people will be spread out. I remember it being impossible getting a team for the Fire Island missions, even before Factions came out. Why? No good way to find people to play with. Eventually, they added this party search feature which is nearly useless. It was a half compromise between trading improvements and finding players. It didn't work for either.

Trading improvements
It's been said 100 times. I don't need to argue for this.

A good developer would...
All games lack features when first released. GW is no exception. When a company releases a game, they should not just sit back and do nearly nothing. (even though it ain't true, exaggeration makes it easier to understand).
One thing I've found true with all games. When features are lacking, players will try to invent their own feature, so they can play. For instance, “Ready?” “1” “1” “1”. Just one example of players trying to compromise with their own solution. A good developer would see this, and put it on the “to do list”.

Skill > time spent or is it time spent > skill?
Recent added PvE only skills. Requiring an insane grind (100k faction? Hell I have 35k). They promote time > skill. Someone will probably try to defend this attack by claiming that these are optional. That seems to be the key defence. Just like Christians love the free will defence (no offence meant for Christians). Problem with the defence is that, all skills are optional! Hell, max weapons, runes, max armour, colours and what not is also optional in that sense. What is usually meant by optional is, they have no effect on game-play, i.e. Are purely cosmetic. This is not true for the new skills, they are sometimes even better than elites (and sometimes not). Another typical defence is that all MMOs have grind, therefore GW should have grind. Are you serious? Just because all games right now have it, does not mean it's a good thing. Conservative position will not help. Same goes for the “But GW has less grind than all other games, just be happy with what you've got!” No. If no one complains, nothing will ever be better. Besides it's a lousy argument for it being there. “But grind adds length to game-play!” Sure, make it optional in the second sense.

Complain department
Also, I'd like you not answer “Don't like it, then leave!”. Same reason as above, if all complainers will go away, then the developer will not know if anything is wrong. Complaining is vital. Just because there will always be complainers, doesn't mean they don't have anything good to say. Of course, there are idiots, but nothing is perfect, therefore no game is perfect, therefore there is something to complain about. Also I'm not suggesting anything here. Just giving examples.

I'd like to discuss:
1.Did the developers actually play in-game and notice features that were lacking?

Edited for one repeated spelling mistake and title.

It's "optional" not "optimal" - just a little fix there for ya

Otherwise, yeah, I agree with you for the most part. There are certain features that just about every game out there has that Guild Wars is missing. But likewise, there are certain features we take for granted sometimes. The biggest one I can think of at the moment is the streaming game patches and bug fixes. While other games (like WoW) actually go offline for an hour or more to update their code, we can sit back and enjoy the game and log off and back on at our leisure to get the latest patch.

Other things, like the very user-friendly menus/controls/gui, observer mode, the skill/attribute system, etc really are very nice and make GW unique. When I play other games, I sometimes get frustrated that they aren't as intuitive as GW is in some aspects.

Still, I know what you mean about certain "duh" features being left out in the cold. I'm not sure how they go about making their priority to-do lists, but it seems like they draw up a list and throw darts at it to decide what gets done when. Sometimes you have to wonder if some of this stuff is even on the list. Chances are at least some of it will be making an appearance in GW2 and because of that, may not make it into GW1. Ya know, like the trade system thing... (auction house)

if you wanna fix his spelling why didn't you mention the topic is misspelled?

anyway

at the start of guildwars which was the time i was most active i never really had a problem reporting skills on my bar, i played with a guild on vent, and even for the time where i didn't have a mic i just typed it out, a lot of the skills can be shortened down, like RoF, CoP, BiP. so really doesn't take that long to say it.
most of the time though we ran builds that were made already and just needed testing. so we knew the skillset we should use already

i don't think a ready button is needed. most groups will ask if you're ready.

I guess you mean that when you travel to tyria you have to go through LA?
if that is the case i think it makes sense. there are a lot of outposts in tyria, cantha and elona. if all of them had to be in that list then it would be a very long list. Besides. going through LA doesn't hurt you, it adds a few seconds to your travel time.

I think the party search would work better if more people knew about it. it isn't properly advertised.

trading could do with an improvement

skill vs time spent.
well it is an optional thing to do. GW has the amount of grind you want it to have. you don't have to grind at all if you don't want to. but you can grind a lot and be able to afford the cool skins and armor. Having every kind of minipet, tier3 of KoaBD, all your characters in FoW armor and whatever else you can think of. sure it looks/sounds cool. but it really doesn't do anything for your performance

Wasn't trying to fix a misspell or a mistype. He used the wrong word many times, so its obvious he was confused as to which word was which. Plus, it almost confused me reading it, since optimal could work in the context, though it doesn't make any sense for an argument.

He said it may contain typos, so I left the multitude of the rest of them alone :P

Actually, please tell me them, so I can fix them. I actually want to improve my english.

I agree. I know my post is narrow-minded, but I was annoyed so I had to write it while I had it in mind. There are many positive things, and they made me ignore the bad things for a long time. But now, I think it is time to say "Enough is enough".

Correct but, both of these are what I would call player-made features, only there because a feature is missing.

Correct, but you realize many streams small make a large flood?
Guild Wars is a game where you travel a lot between continents, at least I do and people I know do. Three seconds there, three seconds there. Even though it is a minor issue, it could be easily fixed, but have not been. That is my point. Besides, you fail to remember that not everyone has a high-end computer or connection.

While this used to be correct, it seems ANET has taken a new stance with the faction-based skills. Did you read my post or just skimmed through?

I'm quite sure that I've seen it suggested before. Even though it is obvious that the game needs it. Player-made features should be replaced by better regular features, agree?

So you have programmed games for a living and are in a position to be clear on this? So they missed something and now you have it. Why rant over something that was asked for and in the end came?
I take that point. But you can see your hero skill bars, and that clutters the screen even with your screen set to high resolution. I cannot imagine how it would look at 800x600 resolution with a load of skill bars all over it. And i take the points others have made to. If i was going into say, a Tombs run, as an Orders necro, then most players know what im going to be taking. Same with B/P or MM.
In fact some times this pinging of templates has lead to an elitist attitude in certain missions (I'm sure if you look around you will find such threads) that players get excluded and called names!
Right or wrong on your perspective it has advantages and disadvantages.
I am hoping that you mean Button! I certainly dont want any players knowing whether my "bottom" is ready or not
Yes I would agree here that a ready button would be nice. Sardelac Sanitarium is your best bet there to gain some votes and lobby the developers
Really more of a rant this isnt it? Is it really that much hassle to zone from one place to another. Instead of ranting over it, suggest a way around it, conceptualise and overcome the arguement.
Perhaps if you "i dont like this because of" ...and "here are my ideas to fix it" statement then it would gain momentum.
My old boss told me once, "dont come to me with problems, bring the situation and a solution, then we will talk"
No i disagree... Complaining is un-wanted and destructive. If as you say you are "critiquing" this game then do it properly. To critique something you present the situation and solutions as a systematic enquiryinto the conditions and consequenses of a concept or concepts and try attempt to understand it's limitations. You sir, are merely ranting and complaining.
If you want to make it better, the "I'm not happy cos blah blah" could be turned into "this is difficult to work with , here are my ideas"
Complainants rarely have anything decent to say. People who can bring a solution to the table are different.
Then why spend the time writing this post? If its a suggestion, wrong forum. If its a rant, whine or complaint. Then I get acid from seeing this type of drivel.
No of course they didnt play it before hand. They chucked it together on a drunken weekend eating pizza and beer because, on a whim they thought it would be fun. Then they threw it out to the masses and waited for the whiners to complain so much that they would bug fix it all and do their jobs for them.
/Sarcasm off


You seem to be whining over things that have happened. Things that the developers looked at from the ideas given to them from the community, coded them and then made it possible in game. So they had an idea and it got put into the game. And someone else had an idea, but wait, they didnt work for ANET and it was a player. So what? it happens. We have it now and you are still complaining.
And that isnt good enough for you..I dont understand your argument position.

Are you in full knowledge of ANET's business model and long term ideas? Are you in reciept of ANET's investors wants or requirements? I would hazard a guess at no to both.
ANET have a duty to their investors above anything else as they are the ones who put up the cash to start this venture. If its laid down in the list that in two years they bring out game 5 and 6 months later expansion 8 then they are working to that, not a request list that has to get slotted into their VAST to-do list.
ANET are not Blizzard. They dont have hundreds of programmers and developers to play with and make this difference. So look at it from their perspective.
Dont complain about things that have been asked for and given. Thats a self defeating argument that will go no where.

I dont know what this was refering to.

I happen to play at 800x600... Are you trying to break the argument, just for no reason? I did not say it was to be cluttered on the interface. They could have made it in a window of sorts, like like skills etc..

Spelling mistake. Duh

I'm not suggesting anything. I'm compaining why certain suggestions aren't there yet, even though they should.


Read above.

Again, I'm not suggesting anything here. If I would, I would have posted in the correct forum. I'm criticizing lack of features that have been or should not have needed to be suggested.

Sorry, I couldn't bother reading the rest of your post. Read the last of my opening post. Ideas have been suggested. I'm fairly sure that certain ideas are very easy to implant, yet haven't been. That is what I am criticizing. Thanks.

I used to be a major supporter of the game. Now that I criticize something, people are all over me.

How would a ready button be any different or better than the "1" system? So say a player presses "Ready" and a red dot appears next to his/her name so the team knows (s)he is ready. Why is this nessacery? Saying "1" gives the same effect without needing any new programming or anything.

It's alot easier. Especially when there is spam in a channel, and annoying when you have to memorize 11 numbers, you see?

My point = It helps and there is no reason not to make it.

Theres no reason to complain either...

Another pointless thread that isnt going anywhere

If you cant be bothered to read what has been posted in reply, then don't bother posting back...simple

don't like the spam in a channel ...turn off local and trade....little tick thingies at the top of the chat box...you see? obviously not....problem solved if you worked around things instead of complaining about them.....

There is no point in criticizing features that weren't in game to begin with and now are.....where does it get you....no where in short

Your issue is and will continue to be with the community, that you are not criticising...your complaining...there lies your problem..

If you DID read the rest of my post you may have taken an enlightened view, but because you didn't you are now being stubborn and going over the same points in your original post, thinking that it will work itself out.
It wont. If its a suggestion then post in Sardelac. If its a complaining ranting whine then simple...just don't post it

This is an interesting idea. They could make this a button next to their name in the party window that only worked in a town or outpost.

I wonder though...many people don't like to share all the details of their build, for whatever reason. I can see resistance to this too.
Both of these would be pretty big projects. They've already said that the auction house would be too costly for GW because of the original game design.

As for the party search...again, I think that if they haven't done it by now then it's a game design limitation.

Which is partly why they are doing GW2 now. So good chance of improvement in both of these areas.


They've added quite a lot to the game over time. If something hasn't been done yet, it's because they haven't had time or it's not practical. So they'll either get to it or it can't (practically) be done.

Except for the Kurzick titles, all grind in this game is still optional and without real consequence. So skill is still better than time spent. (Mind you, well spent time can lead to greater skill so that's not an all-encompassing goal of theirs I believe.)

Even the Kurzick skills, though, are really optional. I don't have them (I'm in the same boat as you) but don't really miss them either. PVE is played against AI opponents, and their are a number of ways to defeat them with or without those skills. I have done all missions in all chapter on HM and did it without ever using any of the PVE only skills (except Lightbringer's Gaze naturally).

What I think is bad abotu the Kurzick skills is that they were put into benefit PVE players, but the only way to get them requires quite a lot of grind unless you were previously in a FF guild or liked to AB a lot. If they would just lower the early levels of this title, it would be much easier to obtain and get rid of the need to grind if you want to get anything out of these skills (or even get them in the first place).

I never understand why players insist on insulting the developers like this when they are the ones who made this great game that has kept us entertained so well and for so long. Of course they have played the game and continue to do so. Implying that they don't is like calling them stupid.

What's a lot more likely is that you don't know the reason for why they made that part of the game the way they did. Maybe it was done that way to address a problem you personally (but that several thousand other players would) have never seen. Maybe it was an oversight, but it's not game-breaking so it's pretty far down the to-do list. Maybe the way you think things should be done would actually make the game no fun for a different type of game player.

If you don't like how something is in the game, just say what it is, why it bugs you and what you think could make it better. A lot of your post is like this, but your last point is just a cheap shot at the developers. This does nothing but detract from the seriousness of your post. Please reconsider making such rediculous attacks in future posts. (And as I mean this not just to the OP, but anyone who makes such silly remarks.)

It doesn't give the same effect, there are a dozen benefits a ready button could have. First, theres the obvious problem of realizing you suddenly aren't ready, saying "WAIT!" in team chat and hoping the leader sees it in time to hit cancel isn't as effective as simply unclicking ready (the idea of a ready button is usually the mission can't start, you can't leave, until people click "ready". You might say thats open to abuse, as someone can just keep unclicking at the last moment. No big deal, you see who it was, kick them. Its a good warning.

That being said, I usually play over teamspeak or with heroes and henchies, who are always ready, so it doesn't matter much to me

EDIT: One note, to people who think titles are optional. One, as said before, optional should be like 15k armor, cosmetic and not going to change the gameplay. Things that directly affect how well you play are less optional (things like skills, max damage weapons, armor). Now the salvage things I don't mind, same with the lock picks, since those aren't that big a deal. But I play a mesmer, and we were told that we were getting an update that would make us desireable in PvE. We got two PvE only skills. Without debating whether or not they actually did the trick, those were supposed to be the "fix" for mesmer no-love. This suggests that mesmers have a choice between continuing to hench single player, or grind for skills that supposedly will make them desireable in groups. The other way you can look at optional titles... when was the last time you tried to join a group in HA without at least rank 3 fame?

If you want to personal attack me, then I can return the favor:
Pointing out irrelevant flaws in my spelling is not professional either. Get over it.

I thought about that too, but these people will have problems from now on, getting into any decent group. We can simply give them no choice. It's not going to hurt them anyway.

My point was not, that they should add it now. My point was, the problem should have been known before they released the game. Any good developer can see, that if you create a game with loads of items etc., trading will happen at a high rate. Therefore, you need a system for handling that. You see?

Well, that's what I want to discuss!
For example, easier map travel, ready botton are not that hard to add.
So it is controversal wether or not they do, as you propose.

I know it's the only thing, currently, that is off the philosophy. But you know, it may be a slippery slope if it is not questioned. - They also stated that there are more faction-skills in GW:EN (see other threads). They might(purely speculation, I haven't seen them), be like the kuzrick/luxon ones. Which, I think is a wrong direction for GW.

This is where we disagree. For a long time, I was in your camp. But recently I've changed my mind, because of the reasons listed.

Thanks for staying on topic though, and ignoring the <b>inadequacies</b> of my spelling! (Yes, I had to look that world up :P)

No i disagree... Complaining is un-wanted and destructive. If as you say you are "critiquing" this game then do it properly. To critique something you present the situation and solutions as a systematic enquiryinto the conditions and consequenses of a concept or concepts and try attempt to understand it's limitations. You sir, are merely ranting and complaining.
If you want to make it better, the "I'm not happy cos blah blah" could be turned into "this is difficult to work with , here are my ideas"

So obvious that you didnt read the whole return of dialogue oh wait you did because you replied to that point....

You keep rattling on about how they "should" have known about these things before the game came out. Should have in YOUR opinion.
SO WHAT?...they didnt, theyve addressed some of the things (search feature FTW) and cannot address others and yet you still choose to complain...NOT suggest.

It goes like this ok.

"Im not in favour of map travelling taking me an extra 3 seconds here and 3 seconds there. I am not a programmer so would it be difficult to work out a better system to make map travel quicker to go from say, LA to DOA?
I for one would like that as it makes life a little easier. perhaps making a drop down box of where you want to go or what zone you want to travel to. What do you guys think".

There..not so hard to put in a suggestion of your issue, your thoughts and possible solutions. Instead your complaining, not critiquing and when this is pointed out, you retaliate.....

You state one thing and then say another then call ME insulting for pointing out a fact!! Get over yourself pal. You whining on here wont change things. Its wrong forum for a start. You've not used search feature for a second and your opening a debate up ready as flamebait for a third.
I addressed the points which i wanted to discuss , and you dont like the answers ...well tough! i dont get the answers I like to some of my questions but I live with it.
I gave my opinions on my thoughts. Dont like them then thats life.

I agree on your complaints about Anet not paying attention to what players really want. I really got that feeling with the intro of the green item and second birthday minipets. Anywayz I do think that Anet is improving, lately they have been changing guild wars in such a way(hard mode, treasures, etc etc) that I finally feel that Anet is paying attention now.

pff i stopped here - thats basically a tag line for - I think in unique and what im going to say is gunna be sooo outragious - but never is....