As the title says... I am really starting to worry about Guild Wars now... as it seems, it is all about titles now.. which makes me upset... not to use more harsh language.
We have title-tied skills, title-tied effectiveness, titles per se, now even title-tied favor system! I can't help but think that for more than 6 months now, all Anet can think of to add to the gameplay is more titles and more grins. It worries me a lot..
Please don't get me wrong, I love titles, I'm trying to max out as much as I can on my main, but I simply hate the idea of grind being beneficial to anything in GW, its supposed to be Skill>Time, and unfortunatelly... it ain't anymore.
Guild Wars... or Title Wars?
Cherrie
Bithor the Dog
You know, I'm beginning to wonder the same myself.
I adopted Guild Wars because of the Time factor. I dont have a vast amount of time to put into it and with the fee free model it was a nice step into MMO's for me. Now, I have some very very powerful skills that are tied to title ranking.
We now have a favour system tied to Title rankings
And it worries me, that this seems to be an after thought knee jerk reaction by the developers to appease an element of the gamers that play it.
It doesnt smack of the "well thought out ideas in the grand plan" sort of thing that will keep players playing the game.
I adopted Guild Wars because of the Time factor. I dont have a vast amount of time to put into it and with the fee free model it was a nice step into MMO's for me. Now, I have some very very powerful skills that are tied to title ranking.
We now have a favour system tied to Title rankings
And it worries me, that this seems to be an after thought knee jerk reaction by the developers to appease an element of the gamers that play it.
It doesnt smack of the "well thought out ideas in the grand plan" sort of thing that will keep players playing the game.
Faer
The hard-core PvE players need grind to keep them attached to the game. ArenaNet wants to keep those players attached to the game so that they tell other people about the game, so that those other people will buy it (once the payment is done, those people don't matter except for the potential they hold to bring in more people, but that's another story). So, ArenaNet adds grind titles. Later, as the hard-core PvE players still want more grind, ArenaNet adds more reason to grind for titles, making grinding essentially necessary to play the game as a social one; without grinding for those 1337 PvE skills, you'll be passed up in groups for people who have them, and if you are one of those people who just can't beat the game with the AI teams then this becomes quite a problem for you.
Grind has never been technically essential to playing this game, but these days, with the title system granting players benefits in both PvE and PvP (though more subtle in PvP, and not in the same form as in PvE), the game truly has become Grind Wars rather than Guild Wars.
Grind has never been technically essential to playing this game, but these days, with the title system granting players benefits in both PvE and PvP (though more subtle in PvP, and not in the same form as in PvE), the game truly has become Grind Wars rather than Guild Wars.
yesitsrob
The titles are entirely optional, and most of them have no actual effect on your play.
The bonus Lucky adds to Lockpick Success is very small
Same goes for the Wisdom + Treasure hunter one for salvaging.
Lightbringer probably has the most notable effect but that title you just pick up as you play through anyway.
Titles are there for people who do want to grind them, for those that don't they don't have to and can still have the same experience.
As far as favor goes: It's dumb, and should be changed.
The bonus Lucky adds to Lockpick Success is very small
Same goes for the Wisdom + Treasure hunter one for salvaging.
Lightbringer probably has the most notable effect but that title you just pick up as you play through anyway.
Titles are there for people who do want to grind them, for those that don't they don't have to and can still have the same experience.
As far as favor goes: It's dumb, and should be changed.
Antheus
Quote:
| The titles are entirely optional, and most of them have no actual effect on your play. |
And when GW:EN comes around, all new titles will have critical impact on how you play. Meaning - if you don't have a certain title-based skill, you might as well grind until you do.
It's all about titles now.
Deleet
It's never been Guild Wars. Mostly Build Wars, now Title Wars.
Raganark
i think the benefits are not that huge to really say you must have them to be good at guild wars
Mitchel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Antheus
Most title's aren't optional, and most of them have an increasingly important effect on your play.
And when GW:EN comes around, all new titles will have critical impact on how you play. Meaning - if you don't have a certain title-based skill, you might as well grind until you do. It's all about titles now. |
I Is Special
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Originally Posted by Antheus
Most title's aren't optional, and most of them have an increasingly important effect on your play.
It's all about titles now. |
/sarcasm
There are few titles that actually affect gameplay. I've never been in a group where they say "you have to have lvl 9 sunspear and max LB to fight with us." And now a days who really does PuGs anyway?
Voltar
Well, I'm witholding judgement on the GW:EN titles until I see how the minigames work. If they're fun then I won't mind grinding to get, "Summon Mursaat," or whatever. If it's going to be the same monotonous grind crap as the NF titles I'll puke. Quests suck in this game and I avoid them at all costs (except the skill quests in prophecies and SF quests which are actually relatively cool). HM grinding SS title now causes exhaustion. I can only hope they're not going to add more crap like that after GW:EN.
One thing though, I've been wanting them to add hand-to-hand to this game forever. I was hoping it would be a profession I could give to my Mo as a secondary but the dwarf arena will do. I'll probably max my Deldrimor title on my Mo just to satisfy that need (unless the arenas have a dull grind feel). At least you won't have leachers.
As for the above poster, if you don't have R5 you won't get into an HA group. If you don't have R3, you won't get into the desparate PuGs that don't use voice chat. LB does affect your PuGing in DoA. The point is that this is turning into everything I hate about WoW.
The Balth faction title track is actually the one that irks me the most since it forces you to stick to a playing a single gametype or you can't play it at all. I can always go back to finishing my 2 remaining guardian titles later (and with higher-powered skills from GW:EN to make it possibly easier).
One thing though, I've been wanting them to add hand-to-hand to this game forever. I was hoping it would be a profession I could give to my Mo as a secondary but the dwarf arena will do. I'll probably max my Deldrimor title on my Mo just to satisfy that need (unless the arenas have a dull grind feel). At least you won't have leachers.
As for the above poster, if you don't have R5 you won't get into an HA group. If you don't have R3, you won't get into the desparate PuGs that don't use voice chat. LB does affect your PuGing in DoA. The point is that this is turning into everything I hate about WoW.
The Balth faction title track is actually the one that irks me the most since it forces you to stick to a playing a single gametype or you can't play it at all. I can always go back to finishing my 2 remaining guardian titles later (and with higher-powered skills from GW:EN to make it possibly easier).
Hyper.nl
I like the titles, Guild Wars generally lacks rewards for dedication. Things like the low level cap and lack of high-end weapon-armor stats make it relatively easy to get a maxed character.
I'm glad that the titles are at least on way to get rewarded for the hundreds or thousands of hours invested in a character.
Personally I would like to see more rewards for dedication, not only to show it with titles and nice looking attire, but also with slightly better stats on the character, armor and items for players who invest vast amounts of time in their chars.
I'm glad that the titles are at least on way to get rewarded for the hundreds or thousands of hours invested in a character.
Personally I would like to see more rewards for dedication, not only to show it with titles and nice looking attire, but also with slightly better stats on the character, armor and items for players who invest vast amounts of time in their chars.
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by Hyper.nl
I like the titles, Guild Wars generally lacks rewards for dedication. Things like the low level cap and lack of high-end weapon-armor stats make it relatively easy to get a maxed character.
I'm glad that the titles are at least on way to get rewarded for the hundreds or thousands of hours invested in a character. Personally I would like to see more rewards for dedication, not only to show it with titles and nice looking attire, but also with slightly better stats on the character, armor and items for players who invest vast amounts of time in their chars. |
Voltar
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Originally Posted by Hyper.nl
...I would like to see more rewards for dedication, not only to show it with titles and nice looking attire, but also with slightly better stats on the character...
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I don't mind the skills when the title isn't an unbearable grind. Even though the factions skills can be maxed with factions arenas (which I like playing), Anet nerfed faction from those arenas and they're plagued by the leechers.
hallomik
Titles are optional.
You can take titles or leave them.
No one has to have any title.
Whether you have a title or not doesn't matter.
Few if any guilds will turn you down for not having a title.
When I see someone with a tough-to-get title, I think "good for him." Other than that, I don't really care.
Titles are optional.
The titles needed to progress in Night Fall are easy to get as you play through the game.
The titles needed to get skills in Factions are easy to achieve for a semi-dedicated player. The skills are only marginally more effective at higher ranks than at rank 1, so you only "need" rank 1.
Titles give some players a sense of accomplishment.
Titles give some players something to shoot for. For me? I don't care.
Titles are optional.
You can take titles or leave them.
No one has to have any title.
Whether you have a title or not doesn't matter.
Few if any guilds will turn you down for not having a title.
When I see someone with a tough-to-get title, I think "good for him." Other than that, I don't really care.
Titles are optional.
The titles needed to progress in Night Fall are easy to get as you play through the game.
The titles needed to get skills in Factions are easy to achieve for a semi-dedicated player. The skills are only marginally more effective at higher ranks than at rank 1, so you only "need" rank 1.
Titles give some players a sense of accomplishment.
Titles give some players something to shoot for. For me? I don't care.
Titles are optional.
Deleet
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hallomik
Titles are optional.
You can take titles or leave them. No one has to have any title. Whether you have a title or not doesn't matter. Few if any guilds will turn you down for not having a title. When I see someone with a tough-to-get title, I think "good for him." Other than that, I don't really care. Titles are optional. The titles needed to progress in Night Fall are easy to get as you play through the game. The titles needed to get skills in Factions are easy to achieve for a semi-dedicated player. The skills are only marginally more effective at higher ranks than at rank 1, so you only "need" rank 1. Titles give some players a sense of accomplishment. Titles give some players something to shoot for. For me? I don't care. Titles are optional. |
Besides, many many guilds will turn you down, unless you have the correct rank. Have you never played PvP?
hallomik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deleet
Skills are optional. Armor is optional. Healing henchmen are optional.
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Clone
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Antheus
Most title's aren't optional, and most of them have an increasingly important effect on your play.
And when GW:EN comes around, all new titles will have critical impact on how you play. Meaning - if you don't have a certain title-based skill, you might as well grind until you do. It's all about titles now. |
Deleet
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hallomik
Good argument. You changed my mind.
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What I meant was:
Most of the things in-game are optional, you really don't need them to "complete the game" (maybe lacking a definition, Im would assume beating all missions and doing all quests, normal mode?). Titles should not give actual benefits, unless they are easy to get, which again somewhat (but not fully) ruins the idea of the titles.
Edit: Maybe you weren't ironic after all, sorry.
Bryant Again
Right now, I don't see much of a problem with skills being tied to gameplay. What *does* bother me is how it's the largest piece of endgame we got. With GW:EN, it sounds like titles will have a bigger impact, soooo, oh well.
Bithor the Dog
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Originally Posted by Deleet
Titles should not give actual benefits, unless they are easy to get, which again somewhat (but not fully) ruins the idea of the titles.
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Grinding out for max title kurzick ...insane to me. its one of those titles that if i get it good if i dont then no big deal
Longasc
It has become Grind Wars indeed. I agree to the first three postings.
GWEN will expand this system even more: Now not only favor is tied to title grind, the Hall of Grind will also allow you to display your grind achievements in GW2. Plus new titles to grind for, probably char based so that you can grind even more.
This time they seem to have more effect on gameplay though. We can only hope that these skills also scale very flat.
But this is new to GW: Time played/grinded gives you extra skills and higher attributes in those skills for playing the game.
So far we have the mentioned flat scaling of these skills, but I fear the worst and the general idea is no longer true to the grind-free nature that GW was once marketed for.
If this trend continues, why not play another MMO and grind for Aldor or Scryer Faction? We are going to become the light version of typical grinder MMOs, and I am one of the people who did not play the alternatives to GW for this very reason. :/
But people are asking for grind, and they get it. Ouch.
GWEN will expand this system even more: Now not only favor is tied to title grind, the Hall of Grind will also allow you to display your grind achievements in GW2. Plus new titles to grind for, probably char based so that you can grind even more.
This time they seem to have more effect on gameplay though. We can only hope that these skills also scale very flat.
But this is new to GW: Time played/grinded gives you extra skills and higher attributes in those skills for playing the game.
So far we have the mentioned flat scaling of these skills, but I fear the worst and the general idea is no longer true to the grind-free nature that GW was once marketed for.
If this trend continues, why not play another MMO and grind for Aldor or Scryer Faction? We are going to become the light version of typical grinder MMOs, and I am one of the people who did not play the alternatives to GW for this very reason. :/
But people are asking for grind, and they get it. Ouch.
MithranArkanere
The most 'necessary' titles are quite fast to get: Sunspear and Lightbringer.
Just go to a Port Town and you'll see they are maxed quite frecuantly.
Most of the Kurcick/luxon ones are quite effective even qith rank 1, and rank 1 is really easily attainable: Just by gathering and giving 25000 faction.
There are people that finished Prophecies without the 30 quest attribute points...
People can make many things without getting stuff... getting stuff just makes them easier.
Just go to a Port Town and you'll see they are maxed quite frecuantly.
Most of the Kurcick/luxon ones are quite effective even qith rank 1, and rank 1 is really easily attainable: Just by gathering and giving 25000 faction.
There are people that finished Prophecies without the 30 quest attribute points...
People can make many things without getting stuff... getting stuff just makes them easier.
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Right now, I don't see much of a problem with skills being tied to gameplay. What *does* bother me is how it's the largest piece of endgame we got.
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Buster
Ok As much as i hate title grinding you have to look at why in my opinion this is good for the game for now atleast. Guild Wars pve lacks depth compared to many mmo games that are on the market today.We don't have a persisent world yet, we don't have crafting and we can't advance our characters over level 20 yet either. So titles in my opinion is the best route to go fow now until GW2 gets here.
We also are getting GW:EN very shortly so we will have alot to do soon. I might just grab me some titles just to keep busy until GW2. The only thing I wish is for Anet to lighten up on the loot scaling thing, granted we do have hard mode but I think people would stay more interested inthe game if they knew they could farm with a higher rate of success of getting stuff they wanted.
We also are getting GW:EN very shortly so we will have alot to do soon. I might just grab me some titles just to keep busy until GW2. The only thing I wish is for Anet to lighten up on the loot scaling thing, granted we do have hard mode but I think people would stay more interested inthe game if they knew they could farm with a higher rate of success of getting stuff they wanted.
Lord Feathers
More whining !
No matter what they do there will be someone who will pronounce the latest change bad, say they're leaving the game or proclaim guild wars dead !
No matter what they do there will be someone who will pronounce the latest change bad, say they're leaving the game or proclaim guild wars dead !
sythmoi
Point of the matter is did they change something that aint broke.... and they keep doing that....to promote more game play...YES you are loosing poeple playing the game it happens... I,m surely not going to play more for favour....what does it do?
In my stupid humble opinion is that they keep changing stuff to fit into this nice perfect balanced world economy....hence loot scaling, farm grinding, title grinding etc etc etc.... Hey Ill grind..... I just dont want to sit here 10 years trying to get a GLAD point or sweet tooth cus i can only get creme bru stuff twice a year...
It aint a perfect world in real life, there will allways be people woth more gold better weapons and bots... YES its a game, please keep it that way...
W.O.W here we come its been mentioned again and again.
In my guild we have lost many players moving to other games...just cuz they sick of all, what we percieve, as stupid sensless changes..its a GAME I wanna be a millionare.... plz stop using us as pawns and make us all do the same thing at the same time, I aint no puppet either, I dont want to GMC for favour, we dont want to be part of a world created by GAWD ANet..we wanna play a game... not play a fancy smancy economy puppet ANet game...
PS do something about your LAG, and stop telling me its my connection...SORRY I cant plug into yout Frakfurt server to not have LAG...
DIAL UP FTW...
Hey I feel better now.....
:P
In my stupid humble opinion is that they keep changing stuff to fit into this nice perfect balanced world economy....hence loot scaling, farm grinding, title grinding etc etc etc.... Hey Ill grind..... I just dont want to sit here 10 years trying to get a GLAD point or sweet tooth cus i can only get creme bru stuff twice a year...
It aint a perfect world in real life, there will allways be people woth more gold better weapons and bots... YES its a game, please keep it that way...
W.O.W here we come its been mentioned again and again.
In my guild we have lost many players moving to other games...just cuz they sick of all, what we percieve, as stupid sensless changes..its a GAME I wanna be a millionare.... plz stop using us as pawns and make us all do the same thing at the same time, I aint no puppet either, I dont want to GMC for favour, we dont want to be part of a world created by GAWD ANet..we wanna play a game... not play a fancy smancy economy puppet ANet game...
PS do something about your LAG, and stop telling me its my connection...SORRY I cant plug into yout Frakfurt server to not have LAG...
DIAL UP FTW...
Hey I feel better now.....
:P
reddswitch
This isn't just about the latest change. It's people noticing the trend anet is taking and continuing into the future. It started long ago and I don't see how you can not notice it. Anet has to support grinding, there's less reasons to stick around now anyway. Grinders will stick around cause there's titles to fulfill. It has turned away players already but all you hear are rabid fanboys since people who left aren't around to comment.
Some people need to step out of their bubbles to notice how titles do affect gameplay. Anet may not have intended it but they're doing nothing to dissuade it. Since they're the ones to put titles in in the first place it's their doing.
Some people need to step out of their bubbles to notice how titles do affect gameplay. Anet may not have intended it but they're doing nothing to dissuade it. Since they're the ones to put titles in in the first place it's their doing.
Issac
titles just give people something to do so they don't quit the game or something. Thats pretty much why I'm getting the titles. Some of the are kind of fun to get like the protector ones. And all my guild mates think im so cool with the titles, so they look up to me in some way haha.
Clone
I also thing one of the problems here is what people perceive as an achievement. Beating a quest or killing a once is an achievement. If you kill the same boss or do the same quest 100 times over doesn't make it any more difficult than the first time you did it. After the first run, its all just mindless repetition. Why give people a fresh challenge when you can convince some poor rube that doing the same thing 100 times over is an achievement?
dargon
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Originally Posted by Deleet
Besides, many many guilds will turn you down, unless you have the correct rank. Have you never played PvP?
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Quru
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deleet
It's never been Guild Wars. Mostly Build Wars, now Title Wars.
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Bouldershoulder
This New Favor System also doesn't make much sense, lore-Wise. I mean, so someone can get to a million experience points without dying...so what? At least the holding the HoH thing made sense. It was tied to skill, and not grind. This new idea must've been thought up in five minutes or something.
hallomik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Deleet
That was probably ironic.
What I meant was: Most of the things in-game are optional, you really don't need them to "complete the game" (maybe lacking a definition, Im would assume beating all missions and doing all quests, normal mode?). Titles should not give actual benefits, unless they are easy to get, which again somewhat (but not fully) ruins the idea of the titles. Edit: Maybe you weren't ironic after all, sorry. |
I do agree with the principle that hard-to-get titles should not give balance-altering abilities to players. To the degree that the SS, LB, and Faction based titles do so, I agree that's not a good direction for the game to go.
That being said, I don't think any of those titles are either that hard to get or so hard to get that the more casual player is disadvantaged. In other MMO's, more time invested can beat skill. That is really still not close to being the case in Guild Wars. Also, the SS & Factions skills can't be even used in PVP. That keeps the game even where competition matters most.
After you've beaten the PVE game on every character in every campaign and you've grown tired of PVP, what's left? Titles give some players something to shoot for who want to keep playing. Titles aren't my thing, but I just can't get that concerned about them.
Malice Black
Don't have any titles, don't plan on getting any titles, don't really care and if people don't like that **** them.
Government Flu
Titles are options. If you want to be competitive, then you'll need to get better titles. If you don't care, then you can enjoy the game in other ways. Me, I personally think Guild Wars was originally called "Gold Sink Wars."
Loviatar
[QUOTE]
the actual turning point in my opinion was a jeff strain interview a few months before PVP ORIENTED FACTIONS came out.
jeff strain made a one line comment that *he and the rest of the team were surprised at how many PVE players were sticking with the PVE content rather than making the expected transition to PVP*
they are giving the main player base what it is asking for and hardcore splinter groups have been leaving from the very start anyway
UAS OR WE GO
MORE LEVELS OR WE GO
MORE UBER POWERFUL LOOT OR WE GO
AND MANY MORE
see above groups as examples who hated the original GW that the present people want back
Quote:
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Originally Posted by reddswitch
This isn't just about the latest change. It's people noticing the trend anet is taking and continuing into the future. It started long ago and I don't see how you can not notice it. Anet has to support grinding, there's less reasons to stick around now anyway.
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jeff strain made a one line comment that *he and the rest of the team were surprised at how many PVE players were sticking with the PVE content rather than making the expected transition to PVP*
they are giving the main player base what it is asking for and hardcore splinter groups have been leaving from the very start anyway
UAS OR WE GO
MORE LEVELS OR WE GO
MORE UBER POWERFUL LOOT OR WE GO
AND MANY MORE
Quote:
| Grinders will stick around cause there's titles to fulfill. It has turned away players already but all you hear are rabid fanboys since people who left aren't around to comment. |
hallomik
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Quru
I liked Build Wars. Title Wars is ok, but the favor system is very annoying. (When I have new build to test, we don't have favor. When I don't have money to test build, we have favor. Yes, I'm European, hell yeah. I think this is good update for americans and other, but this sucks hard for me.)
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I play on the American districts, so I'm happy for the change. I totally understand why you would not be happy, and kudos for being straight about your reasons.
I think a lot of people are making the argument that titles are ruining the game, when the reality is they're understandably a bit torqued off about losing near-constant favor.
Martin Alvito
Honestly, the title system as initially implemented was a healthy concept for the game. It gave goal-oriented PvE-ers things to shoot for and reasons to come back above and beyond trying to make their characters look the way they wanted.
Tying skill functionality (in PvE, anyway) to titles is NOT a healthy concept. It compels people to do things that they don't want to do in order to have maximum effectiveness; this isn't a good thing.
As it stands it's not out of control; it's possible that it will become out of control with the expansion. All we can do is hope that it doesn't.
Tying skill functionality (in PvE, anyway) to titles is NOT a healthy concept. It compels people to do things that they don't want to do in order to have maximum effectiveness; this isn't a good thing.
As it stands it's not out of control; it's possible that it will become out of control with the expansion. All we can do is hope that it doesn't.
Deleet
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Originally Posted by dargon
IMO, any guild that does that is full of elitist BS and isn't worth the time of day to join. I don't join a guild to hang out with a group of guys showing of their e-peen, I join a guild to hang out with people who are their to have fun.
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Gebo
[QUOTE=Loviatar]
add on...
NERF PARAGONS OR WE GO
NERF SOUL REAPING OR WE GO
CHANGE HA BACK TO 8v8 OR WE.. well... spam the HA outpost....
NERF RITUALISTS OR WE GO
...oh wait... nevermind... they did get their way >.<
I'm waiting for the NERF THE SERVERS OR WE GO, to be quite honest lol, wouldn't surprise me really.
Quote:
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the actual turning point in my opinion was a jeff strain interview a few months before PVP ORIENTED FACTIONS came out. jeff strain made a one line comment that *he and the rest of the team were surprised at how many PVE players were sticking with the PVE content rather than making the expected transition to PVP* they are giving the main player base what it is asking for and hardcore splinter groups have been leaving from the very start anyway UAS OR WE GO MORE LEVELS OR WE GO MORE UBER POWERFUL LOOT OR WE GO AND MANY MORE see above groups as examples who hated the original GW that the present people want back |
NERF PARAGONS OR WE GO
NERF SOUL REAPING OR WE GO
CHANGE HA BACK TO 8v8 OR WE.. well... spam the HA outpost....
NERF RITUALISTS OR WE GO
...oh wait... nevermind... they did get their way >.<
I'm waiting for the NERF THE SERVERS OR WE GO, to be quite honest lol, wouldn't surprise me really.