Interrupter Bot Program, is it possible? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

kooomar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

Pow Pow Pow [myau]

Mo/E

16 Aug 2007 at 16:16 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

It's not that hard to interrupt 3/4 second cast skills.

/agree

.75 sec casts are actually the minimum I would say for interrupting efficiently/consistently anything longer is obviously easy to hit, but anything less is anticipatory. However, Interrupting a 3/4 second cast from sheer reflexes is possible.

Alex Silverfox

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

I Falchi Bianchi [Puck]

Mo/E

16 Aug 2007 at 17:07 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

I've caught 3/4s spells by twitch reflex on 200-300ms ping.

As many have said, prediction and anticipation play a huge part in interrupting successfully.

What if a monk is not predictable and wait randomly to cast a skill?

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

16 Aug 2007 at 17:17 - 43

It was just me and my bionic reflexes.

Honestly if you can build a bot to farm you can build one to just fire off skills. Human targets and moves the Bot runs the skills.

Retribution X

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

Check behind you again.

N/

16 Aug 2007 at 17:27 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Silverfox

What if a monk is not predictable and wait randomly to cast a skill?

That monk sucks and seriously needs to quit PvPing if they randomly spam skills.

It's easy to determine when a monk will cast. No monk will let their own die because they might get interrupted trying to heal them. (Unless the powerspike from the interrupt would kill the monk.)

Hengis

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2006

London

Better Than Life (BTL)

R/

16 Aug 2007 at 17:51 - 45

Although I dont play a mesmer often, I do play an interrupting ranger and I have been called either a cheat or a bot when playing simply because the target was not watching what I was using to interrupting him with.

I use Incendiary arrows with 15 or 16 Wilderness Survival with needling shot and a recurve bow. This give 15 or 16 seconds out of every 24 of constant interrupts unless the target uses a blocking skill, for which I carry precision shot to ensure I still hit Zealous Benediction etc.

If I have both needling shot and precision shot available and think the monk (or whatever) is about to cast, then I will use both skills in quick succession, and it is amazing how many times one of the arrows will interrupt something.

If I can get a target below 50% health, then he will be interrupted on almost every cast.

It's fun to play too :-)

Anyway, what I am saying is that there are skills that can interrupt anything over and over again.

Edited for stupid mistakes after a long day at work.

Alex Silverfox

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

I Falchi Bianchi [Puck]

Mo/E

16 Aug 2007 at 17:54 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retribution X

That monk sucks and seriously needs to quit PvPing if they randomly spam skills.

It's easy to determine when a monk will cast. No monk will let their own die because they might get interrupted trying to heal them. (Unless the powerspike from the interrupt would kill the monk.)

I didnt wrote spam random skills -.- Please guys read better. I said WAIT randomly, gosh! It would be half second more or even 1 second more, or something like that to not be predictable AND you can use _merely_ your reflex to no waste skills and mana that might be preciouses.

HolyHawk

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

lf guild~

Me/A

16 Aug 2007 at 18:34 - 47

It's possible; I can actually think about using a simple macro program to do that, in theory it's not hard at all, however, I don't think that's the case on your situation; probably luck. I myself once caught 3 infuses in a row, and even though there was some "plan" to predict it, there's multiple factors such as ping and hardware at some extent.

crimsonfilms

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

16 Aug 2007 at 18:35 - 48

People claiming to be able to interrupt 1/4c skills consistently is full of BS.
3/4" yes - that is expected of top ranger and mesmers.
But interrupting 1/4c is all about luck. Saying otherwise is pure BS. Grade school math will tell you so.

(interrupt cast + latency + reaction time < 1/4 sec???)

.11 + .075 + .15sec = .335

So even with FC at 17 @ 1/4 interupt spell, virtually no latency and top percentile of human reaction, you still come out behind a 1/4 cast time.

Getting lucky with a bit of good anticipation - maybe.

Mesmer in Need

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

[ToA]

16 Aug 2007 at 18:56 - 49

Its not that hard to interrupt 1/4 and 3/4 cast spells, you just have to have low latency and good reflexes, with a bit of luck thrown in. As for bots doing this, i belive its possible. We all know how well heros can interrupt. Give a hero pd, and as long as energy allows, they will interrupt most of whats cast. However they dont really care if what theyre interrupting flare or spell breaker. Thats what makes the difference.

Andrew Patrick

ArenaNet

Join Date: Aug 2006

Washington

Zealots of Shiverpeak [ZoS]

Mo/

16 Aug 2007 at 19:24 - 50

I will pass this along in our weekly Community Summary. Thanks for the heads up!

crimsonfilms

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

16 Aug 2007 at 19:30 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need

Its not that hard to interrupt 1/4....

Please stop this nonsense. Yes it is hard, it is impossible to interrupt 1/4c spells. And if you did, it was luck.

If you going to keep saying 'it is not hard' - prove it. At least show it. I just gave a simple math equation. If you have another one countering it, post it. If not, stop saying it.

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

16 Aug 2007 at 20:36 - 52

It's possible. Not easy, but you can nail them once if you can anticipate them and know generally when monks use their 1/4 second prots.

=DNC=Trucker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

TLA

Me/

16 Aug 2007 at 20:58 - 53

200-300ms ping has nothing to do with interrupting. You can run a 750ms ping and still be able to interrupt 3/4 second spells. The game does some sort of compensation for this, I am 100% sure of it. That is why (sometimes) it seems like you've been interrupted after you already casted.

...and that bar showing you at what point in the spell you were interrupted is bugged. Even things like shame or mark of sub may 'appear' to interrupt you as you are casting.

crimsonfilms

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

16 Aug 2007 at 21:05 - 54

Quote:

Originally Posted by spawnofebil

It's possible. Not easy, but you can nail them once if you can anticipate them and know generally when monks use their 1/4 second prots.

That is called spamalot + luck.

I hope this is not the same people in RA that spams Power Return and asked "How you like my interrupts?" after the game. I can tell an 8yr old to press the 1 key every 5 seconds and get the same frequency of interrupts as those claiming 'it is not hard.'

Voltar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

My dog let's me crash at her place.

POB

R/

16 Aug 2007 at 22:11 - 55

Not to insult you but are you sure you weren't dazed?

I throw out a whole lot of educated Hail-Mary interrupts. Sometimes my finger just slips and i hit something on accident.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

16 Aug 2007 at 22:43 - 56

Don't Mesmers ever switch targets give a Monk a bad day?I don't watch Mesmers in observer Mode for the most part only Monks,Warriors and Rangers.

I find it out by luck if I can interrupt 1/4sec cast spell in pve with distracting shot or savage.

Tahlia Tane

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

W/

16 Aug 2007 at 23:03 - 57

I hope this bot program shit isn't true. I'm very good at interrupting foes or players in PvP. I just anticipate when they use something manually. If you miss, you miss. But if you hit, you hit em good.

Yeah. I'm good.

But I don't want to be accused of doing something, and maybe even getting banned for it! WTF!!

Alex Silverfox

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

I Falchi Bianchi [Puck]

Mo/E

17 Aug 2007 at 00:13 - 58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voltar

Not to insult you but are you sure you weren't dazed?

I throw out a whole lot of educated Hail-Mary interrupts. Sometimes my finger just slips and i hit something on accident.

Once again: yes there was no Daze, as soon as I get usually I scream like a girl over TS

I've nothing against mesmers or interrupters in general, it's a really nice profession and I know there are good mesmer out there. Since somebody said it could be possible to have such program I feel not to be that wrong. It's not a issue that will affect the high lvl pvp but the low/mid level where some lamers may hide.

Thanks Andrew Patrick

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

17 Aug 2007 at 00:18 - 59

A couple things to note:
- If everything was being interrupted, it actually makes a human interrupter more plausible. Most of the delay in interrupting comes from determining whether the skill is worth interrupting or not. Therefore, if they're just hitting the button on reaction to a visual cue (i.e., the appearance of a skill icon on the skill monitor), interrupting becomes much, much faster.
- Veteran players can interrupt 3/4s casts on reaction, consistently. Screaming "bot" based on this simply isn't credible at all.
- Prediction is a large part of interrupting. Monks, especially, are never completely random - your prots and heals are dictated by your enemy's offense. As a general example, throwing an interrupt at a monk while spiking down one of the monk's teammates has a very good chance of catching something. Similarly, good monks will prot on reaction to certain things (e.g., lightning orb :P), and trying an interrupt in that window has a good chance of catching something. You can also watch the monk to figure out individual characteristics. For instance, some people like to dance around, but always stop moving right before they cast something. Or, some people will run up to cast something - interrupting them right when they reach their casting range is almost guaranteed to catch something.

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

17 Aug 2007 at 00:24 - 60

untrained human reaction time is in the .19 - .22s range. for trained FPS gamers, that reaction time is lowered to around .16s.

i almost never interrupt on reflex, simply because mine is not reliable. i have this strange blink reflex that causes me to blink about twice as much as a normal person, so my reaction time can vary anywhere from .18s to .342s if i happen to blink right as the action starts.

as for interrupting bots.... possible, but kinda pointless. it will be difficult to write a bot that's as good as a hero. so if someone really want the fast reaction, they might as well roll a hero and save the time and effort.

selber

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2005

www.peace-and-harmony.de

17 Aug 2007 at 01:47 - 61

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Silverfox

What if a monk is not predictable and wait randomly to cast a skill?

Well, if you play against bad players it's sometimes alot harder to "guess" actually. A bad monk will use his Zealous Benediction right before he drops below 50% maybe for no reason or don't use his skills as expected, because he makes too many mistakes or has a bad reaction time.

As a Warrior you will see the same thing if you run Bullstrike; - In most cases it's much more effective against good players than against bad players, because Mr.-Bad-Player don't try to kite.

Bullstrike: The worst skill you can bring in RA.

kazjun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

HoVa

W/N

17 Aug 2007 at 05:16 - 62

Bots already exist, they're called heroes. So why doesn't every team load up with norgu's to interrupt people? Cause heroes are idiots. All reflexes and no brain. That's why they're really just an annoyance in pvp.

Did the 'bot' interrupt everything, or did he only pick off select spells? Cause that kinda shows if he was thinking or just spamming, though you shouldn't underestimate a good spam. If you got a war train on someone, you can be sure their monk is going to try something, so you just hit him as soon as he looks like he's stopped moving.

And as plenty have said, you can't always be random. A monk who doesn't cast to save a team mate just cause he doesn't want to be interrupted is just useless. I mean, what, he's going to dance around for a second while his team mate goes down? Catching a 1/4 spell at random at the start of the match, I can't say that I could do that. But once a spike starts on someone, I can usually catch the spells the monks try to cast. There are always times where monks have to cast, and the other team knows it. Their interrupters will be sitting on you, and they'll interrupt you or your team mate dies. Simple as that. Just human intuition and experience.

Pwny Ride

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Aussieland

Prime Players Of [OSHA] ~ [dth] alliance. <3

Me/E

17 Aug 2007 at 05:28 - 63

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curse You

If you were right, no one would buy gold. But they do, because they don't play for the fun, they play because they want to be "uber 1337" and the only way they can do that is by cheating.

However right you are, owning the economy with your 'uber 1337 g0ld buy1ng sk1llz' is not nearly as satisfying as interrupting someone with your interruption skills.

Ghost Recon

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/

17 Aug 2007 at 08:13 - 64

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

untrained human reaction time is in the .19 - .22s range. for trained FPS gamers, that reaction time is lowered to around .16s.

You can't really give an average as there are factors involved, how old the person is and if they are male of female. Women tend to be 0.02-0.04 seconds slower than men for a start and humans have there quickest reaction times between the age of 16-22. Quite a lot of PvP players tend to be between the age of 14-24 and male and the average for there reaction times is around 0.16-0.18.

Iron Monkey

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

New Dragons [NDR]

Mo/Me

17 Aug 2007 at 08:23 - 65

That's what I love about mesmer. That all interupt thing requires a lot of know-how. I rarely see idiot interrupt mesmers. It takes skills (and a good network connection).

1/4 spells are virtually instantenous with fast casting. I am not sure if the ping displayed in the bottom-right corner is a full return trip or only client->server. From what I see, it's only 1/2 the trip. But assuming an average ping of 150 ms...

time 0 : Monk cast 3/4 spell
time 150 : server receives cast command.
time 150 : cast animation is sent to all players from server.
time 300 : mesmer receives packet.
time 450 : mesmer cast interrupt (150 ms reaction time).
time 500 : interrupt cast and sent to the server.
time 650 : interrupt cast received by server and applied.

so it could take 500 ms between the time the monk spell is applied, and the time the server receives the interrupt request. That's still below the 3/4 second time, and allow for some tolerance (processing time on server, more lag). It still requires extremely fast reaction times (150 ms).

In any case, Mesmers can anticipate casts, especially in PvE, it's a lot easier since NPCs are a lot more predictable. Interrupt is fun, and underrated in PvE. It's not damage, but like KDs it helps a lot to get through mobs especially in hard mode. All that makes me want to resurrect mine...

Iron Monkey

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

New Dragons [NDR]

Mo/Me

17 Aug 2007 at 08:26 - 66

Oh, and of course they use key binds. I bind my 'life saver' to mouse4, and it makes a lot of difference when monking.

Alex Silverfox

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

I Falchi Bianchi [Puck]

Mo/E

17 Aug 2007 at 09:40 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by selber

Well, if you play against bad players it's sometimes alot harder to "guess" actually. A bad monk will use his Zealous Benediction right before he drops below 50% maybe for no reason or don't use his skills as expected, because he makes too many mistakes or has a bad reaction time.

Sure, the know-how is important to read the monk "mind". Let's say here the mouse (monk) wants to be smarter than the cat (mesmer). The monk knows he may be predictable. So what do I to counter interrupts?
1) I get advantage of my 1/4 cast skills, they are not interruptable for sure on purpose they are just predictable but still is needed a lot of luck. I can chain them with a very low risk like rof->ps-->rof while doing this maybe I made the mesmer waste an interrupt if it's based on mere reflects (he saw a simbol appear and he pressed the interrupt)
2) For longer time cast skills I may wait a bit more ( a bit that can vary randomly to be not predictable) or for example ZB: I can cast it starting from 50% of my life, the interrupter knows, so he wait my life to drop under 50% and as soon as he see me casting he tries to block me, unlucky I may trow a rof there... interrupt wasted I may freely cast ZB suddenly after. I can start a 5 mana skill and cancel the action (and the mesmer may waste interrupt again).
3) A 20-20 fast casting set, with a bit of luck on my side I may cast them really quickly. Needed as hell with a migraine.
4) Running out of range and quickly cast, I know usually they follow me till the hell but hey I'm the mouse ^^

The sum is: try everything to not be catched by the cat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kazjun

Did the 'bot' interrupt everything, or did he only pick off select spells? Cause that kinda shows if he was thinking or just spamming, though you shouldn't underestimate a good spam. If you got a war train on someone, you can be sure their monk is going to try something, so you just hit him as soon as he looks like he's stopped moving.

Everything but when interrupt skills were loaded. A power block on a ZB bar on the gifth of health I wouldn't call it smart, would you? can you spam that much PB and Power spike to catch spells by pure luck? I dont think so.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

17 Aug 2007 at 12:55 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Recon

The average human reaction time is 0.16s and a pro gamer should be a the very least half of that.

I agree with you on most of the stats you give elsewhere in this topic, but I disagree on the statement quoted. Nerve cells have limitations they maximally conduct pulses with a speed of up to 100 meter per second (1). So from the eye to arm takes at about 5 to 8 milliseconds minimal (50-80 cm in total), but then we did not adjust for slower speeds in the brain, and the decision making itself which is not a simple linear flow scheme of pulses. Now, the eye needs to convert light to pulse as well, as should the motor neuron trigger muscle action that requires time too tense too. 0.08 seconds reaction times (or lower) consistently is just physically impossible. Yes, in experiments people can score like that, but does that mean the have a real good reaction or do they gamble? I personally think it is the latter one, as physics are quite reliable (biochemistry is consistent like classical physics), while determining whether one person gambles or not is not reliably measurable. A small test and its analyses online show that my analyses is most likely right and confirms my hypothesis, 2 gamblers (ther are "faster" then physics allow), and reaction times of 0.09 or higher (2).

(1) http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...nervecell.html
(2) http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2006/reactiontime.shtml

crimsonfilms

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

17 Aug 2007 at 13:42 - 69

Yep on above.

As I said, people interrupting 1/4 cast is doing based it based on luck+spamming -aka gambling. Nothing to do with skill.

So those claiming it, please stop. You are making claims that is impossible to make.

seekjy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2006

17 Aug 2007 at 15:46 - 70

Interruption bots exist, and they cannot hit 1/4 casts with any kind of reliability. They can however, hit 1/2 second (1/4 with migraine) and slower casts consistently.

1/4 casts are not possible to hit purely reactively, primarily because of latency. While it's possible to reach a 100% hit rate on them in certain circumstances (e.g., interruption while getting up from KD, interrupting a combo like Glyph Renewal/Divine Spirit, interruption immediately after shame), hitting them as frequently as 25% of the time out of the blue would require both an exceptional ability to predict someone's skill usage, and a fair bit of luck.

Alex Silverfox

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

I Falchi Bianchi [Puck]

Mo/E

17 Aug 2007 at 16:20 - 71

Quote:

Originally Posted by seekjy

Interruption bots exist, and they cannot hit 1/4 casts with any kind of reliability. They can however, hit 1/2 second (1/4 with migraine) and slower casts consistently.

1/4 casts are not possible to hit purely reactively, primarily because of latency. While it's possible to reach a 100% hit rate on them in certain circumstances (e.g., interruption while getting up from KD, interrupting a combo like Glyph Renewal/Divine Spirit, interruption immediately after shame), hitting them as frequently as 25% of the time out of the blue would require both an exceptional ability to predict someone's skill usage, and a fair bit of luck.

I agree 100%

thor hammerbane

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dark Side of the Moon

Fat Kids Are Hard To Kid[nap]

18 Aug 2007 at 03:05 - 72

Cs player myself.
Interupted RoF many times, you just have to predict it. The monks are more bots than the mesmers. If you e-burn or shatter enchant a monk (80-120 dmg), They will obviously use some kind of spell..and there we go with power spike! about 80% of the time it works.