Grenth's Grasp Sin (or Grenth's Right Hand if you like that mellodramatic Olias Crap)

Heres template code- Owpj0tjqqOOs+XCThx/SvIYuNA

Its a A/D btw.

Armor/Wep/Runes:
Radiant everything except chest, that gets a survivor.
1- Vitae
1- Sup Dagger (Could be a major if you like health over Dmg)
1- Sup Critical
1- Sup Vigor
1- Clarity (Or another Vitae, I don't really care its your character)
Icy Pvp Daggers of Fortitude w/ Guided by fate (Breaks build if you don't have Ice wep)

Attributes:
15- Dagger Mastery (Semi-Important)
13- Critical Strikes (Important, Energy Return)
10- Wind Prayers (You like Grenth; don't you?)

Skills:
I will put what each skill does with the way I have it set up.
Warning- Effectiveness of Skills and or build may change if attributes are changed. (In other words don't complain to me when you sub Monk and "The build doesn't work the way it should!") Oh and game experience may change during online play. (Don't think they will, but this build may get nurfed)
...Wow I talk/write a lot, heres the skills...

(5eng, no cast, 1sec)Jagged Strike- Bleed for 15 sec (Yay -2 degeneration (At lest i think its -2 tell me if it non ill edit)
(5eng, no cast, 10sec)Jungle Strike- +25dmg then +31dmg if foe is Crippled (Shame Jagged strike doesn't cripple...)
(5eng, no cast, 12sec)HotO- +30dmg and Knock Down! (Yay it interrupts too!)
(5eng, no cast, 8sec)Falling spider (What else after KD?)- +35dmg and poison for 20sec (Yes... 20sec. Wasn't there already degeneration? Oh well more the merrier!)
(5eng, no cast, 8sec)BoS- +16dmg for each recharging Dagger skill(counts itself)... oh and its a duel strike... (thats +60dmg... Times 2... In one skill... That cost 5 energy...)
(5eng, 1/4sec, 30sec)Guiding Hands- 20 sec next 5 attacks cant be blocked... (I remember me sayin something below about this havin a 5 attack combo, huh weird...)
(10eng, no cast, 20sec)Whirling Charge- 11sec you move and attack 25% faster (Wait there crippled AND you move 25% faster? Oh... Just wondering...)
(5eng, 1/4sec, 10sec)Grenth's Grasp- For 20sec if you have a cold weapon your attacks cause foes to be crippled for 11sec. (This build seams centered around that.)


My lil spin on a classic. I wasn't trying to make it so it was like BoA (I guess Tiger Sin now...), but as you can see from the 4-5 attack combo and the IAS thats how it turned out.

Got the idea from conjure weps.
I have tested this and killed many there is no heal so its a team based or AB (NO DP FTW!) build, pick targets wisely as HotO is temperamental with that whole doesn't work while around other foes (Although they are crippled so escape is easy) There is no survivability GET IN, GET OUT, RECHARGE (Emphasis on the get out if its not working RUN, you will fight someone else (Hopefully easier to kill. TGFN (Thank god for nubes))


Reply with kindness, I bruise easily.

Hmm... I understand u weren't going for SP spike but the way i look at it seems like you just built a similar build but subpar in functionality. Instead of SP you have whirling and grenth's grasp. With the two superior runes under the belt its quite likely to have ppl spike you down as your running up speed boost or no speed boost especially in 1vs1 situation. 33% snare instead of 66% snare. 25%IAS instead of 33%IAS. 2 conditions instead of 3 because there is no deepwound. Also many foes would have speed boost at atleast 33% meaning they can potentially out run you before u ever get close enough to land a cripple. I'm sorry but from the way I look at it, SP spike build actually comes on top. Both build have zero survivability but SP spike has shadowstep for surprise and better snare, spike faster and harder, and can knockdown too under variations.

Its nice of you to get your creativity going instead of blindly copying builds I'll give you that, but unfortunately I don't think you can persuade me to use this build in AB (it won't last a min in any other team based situation, period). The only advantage of this build is the capability of spamming cripple and bleed.

BTW bleeding is 6pts /sec so its 3 pip of degen not 2.

Might wanna put a res in....

Why not Leaping Mantis Sting instead of Jagged Strike?

I don't see a deep wound.

Sins should never run a superior or even a major rune. 600+ hp please.

No zealous daggers = ftl.

They having smart allies = you lose gg. ( hoto )

Theory doesn't always work. And if it does work for you, it's because you think it does.

Really guys i was just messin with some combo ideas i would have preferred constructive crittisism instead of telling me why it sucked. I meant what i said, I bruise easy...

To Silent- You could attach some Shield action in a wep slot then switch back to icy dags when your close to the intended target may make up for lack of HP. This wasn't really a 1v1 build, i hate 1v1 it is the worst excuse of no originality in all of existence. You have 25% IAS over 11sec which in case your first attack is blocked could save your spike 33% is better but its only 4-5sec and normally recharge is a killer. Not sayin that Whirling's recharge isn't the exact same just sayin it seems better to have 50% of the recharge done before the skill runs out. Yes there is no deep wound, but as i said in the beginning you can change the build, add impale with those extra points left over. Yannman can testify that works as his signature skill set uses 2 points in DA just for the Deep Wound.

To Yannman- If i was doing a Team based PvP i would have a res but i used my AB Skill set so it doesn't have one. I find its easier for me to go from a lead to a offhand to a duel instead of your two lead attacks into a duel strike. As i said before add Impale if you want to use it. Everyone who has read your posts knows your hate of sup runes i don't want the -150 health but i try to replace it with other runes like sup viggor. I tested with minor and major but the best results come from the sup and if you have a decent monk then the -health won't really matter IMO. You can have icy dags for initial cripple then switch to zealous (I know you said somewhere "Real assassins switch daggers") Or you could use Grenth's Fingers which makes you deal cold damage. Yes true if noones alone then HotO becomes just a Dmg buff, but theres always one person that is pressured into breaking from the group A SF spiker perhaps? Also this isn't really a theory i said it was tested by me in AB it is a theory for GvG, But i assume since SP builds seam to work in GvG (Albeit there unsurvivability) i assume this will as well.

Thank you all for the "Suggestions" as to how to make this build better. And by that i mean trash it.

Quote:

As Yanman said, running sups is a bad idea on a sin. Even 1 superior is a bad idea, given your low armour level and the fact you're a melee class. The extra 1 point into an attribute isn't worth the -40 health.

Yanman gave you some good advice, but because he was blunt you think he's trashing you.

It's an ok build, but not as good as a BoA sin, which is why people were telling you trash it (I think). It will work against most players, I say most, because any smart player would have the wits to A. Put up a guardian B. Put up a prot spirit C. Disrupt your attack chain or D. Blind you. Criticism is standard when posting a build, and I learned that the hard way

this is complete crap. sorry.

no rez.

[skill]Grenth's Grasp[/skill] is useless because of [skill]Harrier's Grasp[/skill] and in your build [skill]Leaping Mantis Sting[/skill]

superior runes on a sin are a terrible idea

no healing or survival skills

so you basically took an attack chain thats been done a million and 1 times and took all the healing and team support off of the skillbar. good job.

Don't fret the others too much.
Folks here tend to be a bit sharp-edged, but it doesn't mean anything in the end. You should have seen how they used to criticise me for using Mesmer skills (I'm a Roleplayer, not a Statistician).... ^_^;;


I can see you're doing this for PvP.... so as a PvE assassin-player I'm probably not going to be able to advise you too well.... but I'll just say this much:
You have the concept of skill synergy down pat.
Thing is... you need to keep your eyes out for different skills with similar effects and figure out what is going to work best for the least cost... i.e. skill efficiency.

These other folks are criticising you so heavily because the effects you're going for are basically the same as standard in function.... but less efficient.



Personally, when it comes to A/D builds.... I only find two uses for them:
#1. Taking down undead with Holy damage (not relevant in PvP).
#2. Quick-recharging enchantments for Gold-Lining.

the concept of using grenth's grasp is nice... but as others have pointed out already, there are more effective builds that give the same results.

try something like this:

grenth's grasp
critical eye
jagged strike
wild strike
death blossom
impale
siphon speed
rez

dagger=12+1, crit=11+2, wind prayers=4, deadly=rest

very energy intensive, so always keep an eye out for your energy pool. use a cold weapon (but you already know that). otherwise, it's a very spammable assassin build that you can use to hammer people into the ground, or snare everything with siphon speed and grenth grasp.

btw, welcome back soticoto. haven't see you in a while.

dont use greneth's grasp at all. it is a completely inferior skill. you dont need to cripple foes that are not moving.

Thanks Moriz...

And basically, what Coloneh had to say there is the hinge of it all really.
While normal skills can sometimes be put to use in some unusual circumstances.... since Elite Skills tend to form the backbone of a build, there are some Elites that are essentially just useless. Grenth's Grasp is one of them.