Okay, I searched, and came up with a few things. I'm gonna stress some of these again.
My first character was a ranger, and I was very good at playing him, so do not accuse me of not knowing anything about them. But, back when it was only prophecies, rangers could only do a few things. They could deal damage, or they could interrupt. Elementalists could outshine them in damage, and mesmers could outshine them in interrupting.
With Factions and even more so with Nightfall rangers can do even more. They can spread conditions better then almost any class, their pets have steadily grown better, and interrupts and damage have increased as well.
However, rangers are overpowered. No other class can interrupt, damage, and spread conditions equally well. All in the same skill bar.
I dont know how long ago this happened, but escape got buffed. Now it has a maximum time of 8 seconds and a recharge of 12. This, combined with whirling defense (or another block skill, they have accumulated a massive amount of them) can achieve an almost fully maintainable 75% block ratio and a 33% speed boost. This, combined with interrupts and/or damage, is too overpowered.
Now, Assassins also have defensive skills which are easily maintainable. Flashing Blades can be maintained with 15 Dagger Mastery, and Critical Defenses can be maintained as long as a you keep getting critical hits. But if one of these are removed prematurely, they have a long recharge to wait through, unlike the new and improved escape.
In essence, the ranger can do just about everything but heal. We have seen how powerful touch rangers are, and non-touchers are getting better. Some of these new EotN skills will greatly increase rangers efficiency as well (most notably Volley and rapid fire)
I know I'm going to be flamed for this, but I figure I might as well put something up on the forums. I just dont think that its right for BoA sins to get nerfed (the build really wasnt that great to begin with, now its shit) but escape to get the huge buff it has gotten.
Nerf Rangers
The Lurch
Mickey
Tbh, what your pretty much saying is just nerf Escape, the whole class doesn't need to be nerfed, just the block/defense skills that got buffed, correct?
Retz
Wild Blow, Wild Strike, Wild Throw...
What Now
Rangers damage isn't that great to be honest. Their interrupts are still slower than mesmers and such.
Mesmer can interrupt, damage, and have skills that spread conditions from target to all those in the area, and can degen with hexes.
But IMO rangers have all these conditions to make up for the lack of damage they take in cases, and also in cases RC and Mending touch deals with that.
Wild blow and all its variations can deal with stances ,that's like complaining earth eles can keep their enchants up, they can be dealt with. Isn't whirling defenses like 60 recharge? That's too short? o.o
Yes touch rangers can heal, and also have counters, but can touchers interrupt and condition and all t he stuff you made this about? No, so your saying you want each aspect of a profession that isn't even dominating to be nerfed? I highly doubt that.
Sorry not flaming, typing as I read so I don't leave anything out. If anything I find rangers UNDERpowered. With all due respect I think they are fine.
BoA->Killed in 5 seconds.
BA->100 damage in 5 seconds....
Nice comparison.
Mesmer can interrupt, damage, and have skills that spread conditions from target to all those in the area, and can degen with hexes.
But IMO rangers have all these conditions to make up for the lack of damage they take in cases, and also in cases RC and Mending touch deals with that.
Wild blow and all its variations can deal with stances ,that's like complaining earth eles can keep their enchants up, they can be dealt with. Isn't whirling defenses like 60 recharge? That's too short? o.o
Yes touch rangers can heal, and also have counters, but can touchers interrupt and condition and all t he stuff you made this about? No, so your saying you want each aspect of a profession that isn't even dominating to be nerfed? I highly doubt that.
Sorry not flaming, typing as I read so I don't leave anything out. If anything I find rangers UNDERpowered. With all due respect I think they are fine.
BoA->Killed in 5 seconds.
BA->100 damage in 5 seconds....
Nice comparison.
God Apprentice
I don't see a problem with rangers. As far as touchers go, Diversion spam is for the win.
The Lurch
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Retz
Wild Blow, Wild Strike, Wild Throw...
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Quote:
| Tbh, what your pretty much saying is just nerf Escape, the whole class doesn't need to be nerfed, just the block/defense skills that got buffed, correct? |
**EDIT** Though the initial damage isnt much, all a ranger has to do is slap on a preperation, a weapon spell, adn then spam dual shot and forked arrow. Tell me that cant do 100 damage in 5 seconds
God Apprentice
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Lurch
hello? Did you not read my post? That will disable a block skill for what? 12 seconds at the most? Yeah, not that helpful, especially when all they have to do is hit another one.
Yeah just some of the block skills being nerfed would kinda solve the problem, but the class can do way too many things IMO. Spreading conditions, tanking (or at least their pets can), DD'ing, its insane. |
stormrunner
Honestly, I don't believe you have a clue as to what you're talking about. Escape is no where close to being an overpowered skill, let alone a powerful one even after the buff. It seems your argument is that stances are overpowered when in fact they are not. The only stance you see on ranger's bars in today's metagame is Natural Stride, and thats because chaining together stances hasn't been seen in the game since the early days of prophecies.
As for your argument as a whole, you'll find that in most pvp, (which seems to be what you're refering to) rangers fill a utility role for the most part. Bow rangers are especially scarce in most forms of pvp, with the occasional burning arrow ranger in GvG teams. In conclusion, I suggest that before the next time you declare a certain profession "overpowered" you should observe a few pvp matches and see for yourself how the metagame works.
As for your argument as a whole, you'll find that in most pvp, (which seems to be what you're refering to) rangers fill a utility role for the most part. Bow rangers are especially scarce in most forms of pvp, with the occasional burning arrow ranger in GvG teams. In conclusion, I suggest that before the next time you declare a certain profession "overpowered" you should observe a few pvp matches and see for yourself how the metagame works.
The Lurch
Quote:
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Originally Posted by God Apprentice
To be honest why would you bring [skill]Escape[/skill] as an elite anyways? Unless you're running, it kinda makes you useless.
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they had: resto rit, said ranger, warrior, and a leaver
Resto rit and warrior dead, ranger is all alone. he simply shut down the ele and monk with concussion shot, then simply killed us with forked arrow/nightmare weapon.
stormrunner
So what your saying is an entire profession should be nerfed because your team lost one time in RA?
What Now
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Lurch
hello? Did you not read my post? That will disable a block skill for what? 12 seconds at the most? Yeah, not that helpful, especially when all they have to do is hit another one.
Yeah just some of the block skills being nerfed would kinda solve the problem, but the class can do way too many things IMO. Spreading conditions, tanking (or at least their pets can), DD'ing, its insane. **EDIT** Though the initial damage isnt much, all a ranger has to do is slap on a preperation, a weapon spell, adn then spam dual shot and forked arrow. Tell me that cant do 100 damage in 5 seconds |
The Lurch
Quote:
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Originally Posted by stormrunner
So what your saying is an entire profession should be nerfed because your team lost one time in RA?
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**EDIT**: @ What Now: Their are better tanks and DD and such, but none are as versatile as the ranger. I've said this numerous times now.
What Now
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Lurch
Because it make syou nearly untouchable, and lets you get away very fast. I was just up against a ranger using this today in TA. My whole team got whiped out from nearly this one ranger. We couldnt deish out enough damage,-and we had an ele, sin, monk, and dervish.
they had: resto rit, said ranger, warrior, and a leaver Resto rit and warrior dead, ranger is all alone. he simply shut down the ele and monk with concussion shot, then simply killed us with forked arrow/nightmare weapon. |
Btw <3 concussion shot, way better than the elite and I believe the game needs more skills like this, that are actually skill related. You should of hid behind something. Btw nice monk if that shut him down.
What Now
How about this, post certain skills you have something against and give a GOOD reason besides "It beat me" to why it should be nerfed and they might actually listen and be polite.
God Apprentice
I'm betting though that that particular ranger build was something you only faced one time though, so really I don't see a need to say an entire class needs a nerf because you couldn't beat the ranger because it blocked you with [skill]Escape[/skill]
What Now
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Lurch
Wow..no. Dont be an ass. You know thats not what I meant. I've ran into this kind of thing countless times, and im fed up with it. It needs to be nerfed. It happens in AB more then anywhere else, which makes it even more annoying especially when your FF.
**EDIT**: @ What Now: Their are better tanks and DD and such, but none are as versatile as the ranger. I've said this numerous times now. |
stormrunner
I mean no offense, Lurch, but I think by insisting that ranger stances be nerfed you're only demonstrating your inexperience in Guild Wars PvP.
I'll give you an example: Say a ranger with escape was to fight a standard shadow prison assassin. In this example the assassin would cast expose defenses on the ranger, shadow step to him, and proceed to destroy him while the ranger's escape skill proved utterly ineffective. In this example the assassin easily wins, which is why stances like escape are not heavily used in current pvp.
*edit* And if you don't believe me then I suggest you create a pvp ranger that uses escape and see for yourself that rangers are not as overpowered as you would have yourself believe
I'll give you an example: Say a ranger with escape was to fight a standard shadow prison assassin. In this example the assassin would cast expose defenses on the ranger, shadow step to him, and proceed to destroy him while the ranger's escape skill proved utterly ineffective. In this example the assassin easily wins, which is why stances like escape are not heavily used in current pvp.
*edit* And if you don't believe me then I suggest you create a pvp ranger that uses escape and see for yourself that rangers are not as overpowered as you would have yourself believe
MithranArkanere
Untouchable? Far from it.
Actually touches bypass stances.
And since last assassin buff, all wild attacks are unblockable:
Wild Blow, Wild Strike, Wild Throw.
Since rangers have quite a lot of unblockable attacks and even an unblockable preparation, and dervisehes can use wild blow or their point black spells, stances are not the best option for defense, you know?
Actually touches bypass stances.
And since last assassin buff, all wild attacks are unblockable:
Wild Blow, Wild Strike, Wild Throw.
Since rangers have quite a lot of unblockable attacks and even an unblockable preparation, and dervisehes can use wild blow or their point black spells, stances are not the best option for defense, you know?
The Lurch
Rangers are overpowerd, no class should be this versatile. They are not "alright" in some areas, they DO excel. Eles may be able to do more damage then a ranger in one shot, but rangers can spam the damage faster, creating more pressure IMO. They can spread every condition. Necromancers do beat them at that, I will admit. But not by a lot. Their pets can tank better then most tanks, and their ability to go untouched is, like i have stressed, horrible. You keep saying they dont excel in some fields, and thats not correct.
Oh, BTW mending touch isnt the only condition removal skill. Antidote signet will get rid of the problem areas for rangers (blind in particular). And while Troll Unguent can be easily interrupted, it isnt so easy to do if the person IS BLOCKING ALL YOUR ATTACKS!
And they have a mass multitude of stances that block. And most rangers these days carry more then one at a time! So remove one, and they throw up another? By the time that one is down, the other is recharged. And only a few classes have touch skills that damage, and the necromancer is the onlyone where those skills can be spammed.
How bout this, just nerf some of the block skills, and I'll be happy, okay?
Oh, BTW mending touch isnt the only condition removal skill. Antidote signet will get rid of the problem areas for rangers (blind in particular). And while Troll Unguent can be easily interrupted, it isnt so easy to do if the person IS BLOCKING ALL YOUR ATTACKS!
And they have a mass multitude of stances that block. And most rangers these days carry more then one at a time! So remove one, and they throw up another? By the time that one is down, the other is recharged. And only a few classes have touch skills that damage, and the necromancer is the onlyone where those skills can be spammed.
How bout this, just nerf some of the block skills, and I'll be happy, okay?
stormrunner
I'm going to have to suggest once again that before you insist a class is overpowered, you play that said class.
It's quite clear that you're just angry because your current assassin build proved ineffective against that particular ranger build.
It's quite clear that you're just angry because your current assassin build proved ineffective against that particular ranger build.
lyra_song
Your complaints are baseless and without any merit.
/notsigned
/closethread
/notsigned
/closethread
The Lurch
How are they baseless? I gave several examples of how the class is over powered. What else am i suppsoed to say other than "it beat me" OF COURSE IT BEAT ME! A class should not be able to kill a team of 4, or even more then that! Its overpowered! The only feasible example would be to say "it beat me", because this is pvp we are talking about. Thats the point, is to beat others (obviously)
stormrunner
They're baseless because the majority of the player base agrees they are
God Apprentice
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Lurch
Rangers are overpowerd, no class should be this versatile. They are not "alright" in some areas, they DO excel. Eles may be able to do more damage then a ranger in one shot, but rangers can spam the damage faster, creating more pressure IMO. They can spread every condition. Necromancers do beat them at that, I will admit. But not by a lot. Their pets can tank better then most tanks, and their ability to go untouched is, like i have stressed, horrible. You keep saying they dont excel in some fields, and thats not correct.
Oh, BTW mending touch isnt the only condition removal skill. Antidote signet will get rid of the problem areas for rangers (blind in particular). And while Troll Unguent can be easily interrupted, it isnt so easy to do if the person IS BLOCKING ALL YOUR ATTACKS! |
Oh look, no more blocking my attacks now, huh?
[skill]Troll Unguent[/skill]
Uh oh..
[skill]Distracting Blow[/skill]
So much for that too?
You say you have faced a few of these before?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Lurch
I've ran into this kind of thing countless times, and im fed up with it. It needs to be nerfed.
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stormrunner
I don't get it people, you're suggesting that wild blow/strike is the only way to deal with stance rangers when in fact any spell ignores block stances.
moriz
a ranger is only as good as the player. rangers are the ultimate flex profession: they allow a skilled player to play to his/her maximum potential. played by a bad player, they are worse than useless.
that said ranger who beat you was probably very good. or just very lucky. or maybe the ele and monk you are with (and you as well) have the brains of an ant. i'm going with "the ranger was very lucky", and "you have the brains of an ant", because no decent ranger will ever bring escape.
instead of complaining about the profession, maybe you should.... what's the phrase... learn2play? you got slaughtered by a ranger runner, who had very little attack power, while you played a profession who can kill him by a well-timed twitch of your fingers. you should be ashamed of yourself.
that said ranger who beat you was probably very good. or just very lucky. or maybe the ele and monk you are with (and you as well) have the brains of an ant. i'm going with "the ranger was very lucky", and "you have the brains of an ant", because no decent ranger will ever bring escape.
instead of complaining about the profession, maybe you should.... what's the phrase... learn2play? you got slaughtered by a ranger runner, who had very little attack power, while you played a profession who can kill him by a well-timed twitch of your fingers. you should be ashamed of yourself.
stormrunner
Quote:
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Originally Posted by moriz
a ranger is only as good as the player. rangers are the ultimate flex profession: they allow a skilled player to play to his/her maximum potential. played by a bad player, they are worse than useless.
that said ranger who beat you was probably very good. or just very lucky. or maybe the ele and monk you are with (and you as well) have the brains of an ant. i'm going with "the ranger was very lucky", and "you have the brains of an ant", because no decent ranger will ever bring escape. instead of complaining about the profession, maybe you should.... what's the phrase... learn2play? you got slaughtered by a ranger runner, who had very little attack power, while you played a profession who can kill him by a well-timed twitch of your fingers. you should be ashamed of yourself. |
and I second the /closethread
vaxmor
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Lurch
My first character was a ranger, and I was very good at playing him, so do not accuse me of not knowing anything about them.
... We have seen how powerful touch rangers are . |
ShadowsRequiem
wow I found a thread worse then the FEMALES ARMORS ARE BAD! threads
crazy.
crazy.
God Apprentice
Quote:
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Originally Posted by stormrunner
I don't get it people, you're suggesting that wild blow/strike is the only way to deal with stance rangers when in fact any spell ignores block stances.
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Elementalist
Assassin
Monk
Dervish
I'm not saying [skill]Wild Blow[/skill] is the only answer
He could just as well took [skill]Expose Defenses[/skill]
It was more than likely suggested because of what Lurch said the team setup was.
Curse You
Ranger uses Escape? Try this:
Curses 12 + 1 + 3
Soul Reaping 9 +1
Illusion 9
[skill]Imagined Burden[/skill][skill]Rigor Mortis[/skill]
That means that for 21 seconds they can neither block, nor run.
Even better, add this:
[skill]Reckless Haste[/skill]
Now they can't hit either.
There are counters to everything. Just because you refuse to alter your build to compensate, doesn't make it overpowered.
Curses 12 + 1 + 3
Soul Reaping 9 +1
Illusion 9
[skill]Imagined Burden[/skill][skill]Rigor Mortis[/skill]
That means that for 21 seconds they can neither block, nor run.
Even better, add this:
[skill]Reckless Haste[/skill]
Now they can't hit either.
There are counters to everything. Just because you refuse to alter your build to compensate, doesn't make it overpowered.
stormrunner
Quote:
| It was more than likely suggested because of what Lurch said the team setup was. |
God Apprentice
Quote:
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Originally Posted by stormrunner
And I was making reference to the elementalist.
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Lurch can you give us the teams skillbars?
stormrunner
I'm going to take a guess here and say that the elementalist's skill bar started with [skill]flare[/skill]
Melody Cross
/signed for close
Rangers are not overpowered. using RA and AB experience as your justification to this statement puts your credibility in doubt, and the comment about touchers being so powerful when powercreep has effectively nerfed the build breaks it even further.
You've been told how to beat rangers, what should have been happening. What you haven't told us is why it WASN'T. None of the three characters that could deal respectable damage were able to kill one Escape Ranger. this says only one thing to me:
none of you had counters. It was all pure damage on every build, or gimmick builds that could only survive if it wasn't interrupted.
I'm sorry for your troubles, but it honestly does sound as though you are calling for a nerf because other players were better than you, and not because any skills are overpowered.
GGs
Rangers are not overpowered. using RA and AB experience as your justification to this statement puts your credibility in doubt, and the comment about touchers being so powerful when powercreep has effectively nerfed the build breaks it even further.
You've been told how to beat rangers, what should have been happening. What you haven't told us is why it WASN'T. None of the three characters that could deal respectable damage were able to kill one Escape Ranger. this says only one thing to me:
none of you had counters. It was all pure damage on every build, or gimmick builds that could only survive if it wasn't interrupted.
I'm sorry for your troubles, but it honestly does sound as though you are calling for a nerf because other players were better than you, and not because any skills are overpowered.
GGs
moriz
i'm not going to tell him what skills to run, because that's just bad. instead, i'm going to tell him how to beat that single ranger with his full team of four:
you and dervish: hound the ranger. doesn't matter if your attacks won't go through, just keep hitting/spiking him. keep his attention on you and the dervish to draw away his interrupts.
ele: nuke him. 100 AL vs elemental and troll unguent won't save him from a good ele.
monk: heal up whatever pitiful damage that ranger was dealing out.
there you go, you win, had you used my strategy. it's also a very, very easy strategy too.
you and dervish: hound the ranger. doesn't matter if your attacks won't go through, just keep hitting/spiking him. keep his attention on you and the dervish to draw away his interrupts.
ele: nuke him. 100 AL vs elemental and troll unguent won't save him from a good ele.
monk: heal up whatever pitiful damage that ranger was dealing out.
there you go, you win, had you used my strategy. it's also a very, very easy strategy too.
stormrunner
Seriously though /closethread
What Now
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Lurch
Rangers are overpowerd, no class should be this versatile. They are not "alright" in some areas, they DO excel. Eles may be able to do more damage then a ranger in one shot, but rangers can spam the damage faster, creating more pressure IMO. They can spread every condition. Necromancers do beat them at that, I will admit. But not by a lot. Their pets can tank better then most tanks, and their ability to go untouched is, like i have stressed, horrible. You keep saying they dont excel in some fields, and thats not correct.
Oh, BTW mending touch isnt the only condition removal skill. Antidote signet will get rid of the problem areas for rangers (blind in particular). And while Troll Unguent can be easily interrupted, it isnt so easy to do if the person IS BLOCKING ALL YOUR ATTACKS! And they have a mass multitude of stances that block. And most rangers these days carry more then one at a time! So remove one, and they throw up another? By the time that one is down, the other is recharged. And only a few classes have touch skills that damage, and the necromancer is the onlyone where those skills can be spammed. How bout this, just nerf some of the block skills, and I'll be happy, okay? |
What Now
Quote:
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Originally Posted by stormrunner
I'm going to take a guess here and say that the elementalist's skill bar started with [skill]flare[/skill]
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But sins that keep up shadow form and earth eles and such are versatile in that way, overpowered to you too? You wouldn't do much apparently, so nerf them all too? No, simply play smarter and your set.