ANet, The Good, The Bad and The Ugly

Mork from Ork

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2007

22 Aug 2007 at 14:21 - 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by prism2525
EDIT: Also I suggested this elsewhere, but can't they make an invisible feature in the client that maps and compares your movement patterns if exiting the same outpost more than once? Bots would have perfectly identical movements and timings whereas legitamate players can't do that even if they try.
Problem with that is that bots use the hotkeys to move to npcs, signs, enemies, loot. A player who has been at the same run for several hours and is getting tired may also use the hotkeys (comes in handy if you are eating a sandwich with one hand and trying to play with the other). So a tired player using the hotkeys will have the same movement as a bot every step of the way.

I know I'm gonna get flames but I'm afraid things like this are gonna happen in a subscription free game. There's no real incentive for good customer service. And no money coming in to pay for it on a regular basis. I'm not saying ANet is bad people - it's just that companies are less careful if they are providing a free service than if they have to keep the customers happy to make a buck.

And I know I'm gonna really get flamed here. I really hope that ANet fixes the problems with the online store and then begins to sell extra material like the bonus missions on a regular basis or....

Keep the basic game free and supply extra premium material for a small monthly fee.

Either way there would be an incentive to them to be more careful with customer support and to keep the player happy.

/puts on fire proof jacket and ducks.

twicky_kid

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

22 Aug 2007 at 14:22 - 42
Anet is getting more strict with their bans. Its not that the game doesn't know your not a bot. Its easy to tell if some one is a bot. All you have to do is record their running paths in towns.

The real reason is because they make more money for banning. All the bots have to buy more accounts and Anet gets to claim you were doing bot like activity to justify the ban. Less players = less bandwidth they have to pay for and more accounts you have to buy.

Ghost Omel

Ghost Omel

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

----//---//---//-----//----

W/

22 Aug 2007 at 14:31 - 43
Takes out a flamethrower and flames incompitent fools JK

NAh i dont think they should release any Monthly fee content sorry pal you wont be ELITE in this game all got same apportunity lol Yeah to bad for you bno special item or anyhting yeah so no flame war just your idea is so umm foolish well it might be good for Subscription game slike WoW or othe rgames in that taste but GW stya they way you are better for ya communitey

Tijger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/E

22 Aug 2007 at 14:32 - 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid

The real reason is because they make more money for banning. All the bots have to buy more accounts and Anet gets to claim you were doing bot like activity to justify the ban. Less players = less bandwidth they have to pay for and more accounts you have to buy.
Thats a pile of steaming BS.

Anet doesnt pay for bandwidth usage, no company of any decent size does that, please refrain from talking about things you obviously are totally clueless about.

brave bern

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2005

London

Fun With Blood (SuK)

R/

22 Aug 2007 at 14:37 - 45
Thank You OP for bringing this to the attention of the community - I have often done things over and over in the pursuit of some "meaningless" title or other and ANETS response was very poor to say the least. - -

As to those people who say you deserve the ban because you were playing too much - maybe they would like to see this policy come to the west!

http://www.playnoevil.com/serendipit...on-notice.html

This pdf explains those rules:

http://www.playnoevil.com/serendipit...em_English.pdf
glhf

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

22 Aug 2007 at 14:40 - 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijger
Correct, they also do not need to prove anything.
One-sided terminations of licenses or contracts should be treated very carefully, and still have to live up with legal regulations. A contract or EULA containing illegal statements or contents is just invalid. For example, many house lease contracts in The Netherlands contain statements on temporary rights after one year, in court however that would be dismissed as it IS illegal. As long as a user did not break user agreements that are not in conflict with the law they cannot just terminate it.

They are doing it, but the first one that goes to court to have his rights reinstalled (just to have fun), will have a good chance, unless there are politics and business in play.

Don't get me wrong, I support ANet and the fact that they ban people for misconduct, they can just do that, but that does not make all they do legal. ANd remember this situation was about farming chests, well for no commercial reason you are gonna farm chests, they are gold sinks.

mr_groovy

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

22 Aug 2007 at 14:45 - 47
I'm actually sort of glad you got banned.

This shows that a Real bot (if you were telling the truth) is live for 1.5 days and get's banned =D. In the end you did get your account back ^^

BenjZee

BenjZee

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2006

The Overacheivers [Club]

Mo/

22 Aug 2007 at 14:48 - 48
"in handy if you are eating a sandwich with one hand and trying to play with the other" omg thats the best line ever

LifeInfusion

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

22 Aug 2007 at 14:49 - 49
They banned you because you're doing it wrong...

The chest hunter title is not meant to be ground, more like casually opening random chest, not rezoning over and over to open the same chest.

(IMO of course)

Not to mention, it is a lot easier to get banned if you do repetitive behavior for extended periods (which I'm assuming you did).

Obviously the Arenanet policy is ban first ask questions later. It sounds wrong, but bots won't protest their innocence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Anet is getting more strict with their bans. Its not that the game doesn't know your not a bot. Its easy to tell if some one is a bot. All you have to do is record their running paths in towns.

The real reason is because they make more money for banning. All the bots have to buy more accounts and Anet gets to claim you were doing bot like activity to justify the ban. Less players = less bandwidth they have to pay for and more accounts you have to buy.
Uh they are trying to crack down on repetitive behavior from the looks of it. That in turn cuts down on bots and exploits.

They don't make money for bans since you're not supposed to make a new account if you get permabanned.

Tijger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/E

22 Aug 2007 at 14:51 - 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Smit
One-sided terminations of licenses or contracts should be treated very carefully, and still have to live up with legal regulations. A contract or EULA containing illegal statements or contents is just invalid. For example, many house lease contracts in The Netherlands contain statements on temporary rights after one year, in court however that would be dismissed as it IS illegal. As long as a user did not break user agreements that are not in conflict with the law they cannot just terminate it.

They are doing it, but the first one that goes to court to have his rights reinstalled (just to have fun), will have a good chance, unless there are politics and business in play.

Don't get me wrong, I support ANet and the fact that they ban people for misconduct, they can just do that, but that does not make all they do legal.
No, you dont stand a chance and what Anet does is totally legal.

You also dont stand a chance if you buy tickets and misbehave in Disneyland and they toss you out, there are exceptions yes, if Anet bans you because you're a woman or because you are colored but unless they discriminate with intent you dont have any legal recourse.

This is NOT a shrinkwrap software EULA which has indeed rarely been checked in an EU court but something rather different, which are terms of service. This is also why Anet publishes its EULA and TOS on their website, you can read it before opening the box.
You are accessing a private network which is the same as entering a building or location owned by a private person or company, it does not matter if you paid for entry, if you break the rules they can toss you out without recourse.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

22 Aug 2007 at 14:55 - 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijger
No, you dont stand a chance and what Anet does is totally legal.

You also dont stand a chance if you buy tickets and misbehave in Disneyland and they toss you out, there are exceptions yes, if Anet bans you because you're a woman or because you are colored but unless they discriminate with intent you dont have any legal recourse.

This is NOT a shrinkwrap software EULA which has indeed rarely been checked in an EU court but something rather different, which are terms of service. This is also why Anet publishes its EULA and TOS on their website, you can read it before opening the box.
You are accessing a private network which is the same as entering a building or location owned by a private person or company, it does not matter if you paid for entry, if you break the rules they can toss you out without recourse.
You don't read what I am stating, I agree with you that what u mention is reality and is happening, BUT if they threw you out on false accusations, having no PROOF whatsoever they will loose, because an assumption is no fact. If they threw me out of Disneyland while I was not misbehaving, I could sue there ass off and probably get some nice funding for damages suffered.

ANyway, A GM banning someone for farming chests would be a waste of time, they better spend time on "bots" that are farming random drops from mobs.

Tijger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/E

22 Aug 2007 at 15:02 - 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Smit
You don't read what I am stating, I agree with you that what u mention is reality and is happening, BUT if they threw you out on false accusations, having no PROOF whatsoever they will loose, because an assumption is no fact. If they threw me out of Disneyland while I was not misbehaving, I could sue there ass off and probably get some nice funding for damages suffered.
No, you wouldnt.

You accept their rules when you enter and one of the rules is this:

Quote:
(a) NC Interactive reserves the right to suspend or terminate this Agreement (including your Software license and your Account) immediately and without notice if you breach this Agreement or willfully infringe any third party intellectual property rights, or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information you provide to us, or upon game play, chat or any player activity whatsoever which is, in our sole discretion, inappropriate and/or in violation of the spirit of the Game(s) as described in the Rules of Conduct.

Should NC Interactive decide to suspend or terminate this Agreement with a User under any circumstances, the User will lose access to your Account.

(b) You agree that if the Service or your Account is suspended, terminated or cancelled for any reason or length of time, you are not entitled to any reimbursement or refund of any fees or unused access time.
They dont have to 'prove' anything, if Anet feels you have violated their terms in spirit you are out without recourse.
As long as their decision cannot be shown to have been made on illegal grounds (like racism), you will not get anything refunded or reinstated.

zenatomiser

zenatomiser

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Mo/Me

22 Aug 2007 at 15:06 - 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_groovy
I'm actually sort of glad you got banned.

This shows that a Real bot (if you were telling the truth) is live for 1.5 days and get's banned =D. In the end you did get your account back ^^
I'm sorta glad too, because it shows that ANet is really doing something about bots, and im sure they do ban the 2000+ bots a week claim I'v seen around the forums. However if you went through my experience, you would be quite honestly in complete shock. It's like spending your life saving on a brand new car and then watching a tank go over it.

For those of you who talk about "real life" the point of the thread is not to talk about my gaming addiction or anyone else's it's to discuss the issues concerning incorrect bans and the methods used to stop bots.

There is plenty of grind in this game mainly added by titles, I wasn't bothered much till I created my Sin and got the titles rolling in, it was truly alot of fun doing all the vanquishing and hard mode missions. And since the favor change there are alot more grinders now, since there is a reason to get titles other than to have them/show off.

I've seen a few threads about people being banned for FFF here too, so again their "automatic behaviour" measures seemed to need an improvement. However my ban got me thinking that ANet is loosing control of the bot problem? There are now so many bots that maybe they just make profit and buy enough accounts to account for their banned accounts. Therefore ANet getting more desperate at banning them and getting more and more innocent players getting hurt in the process.

For all you non believers, I have emails and proof of the ban, but again that's not the point of the thread. And yes i am very happy I got my account back but treating people like crap after they make a mistake is simply wrong.

Also I can't stop laughing about their rules of conduct, seriously these 2 just kill me

Quote:
You may not post or communicate any player’s real world information (name, address, account name, etc.) through the Guild Wars game or on the official Guild Wars website.
Quote:
You may not use sexually explicit, harmful, threatening, abusive, defamatory, obscene, hateful, or racially or ethnically offensive language.
I'v asked my guild about the 1st one and nobody, and I mean nobody was even aware of these rules of conduct. And the amount of abuse and offensive comments you can record in ra/ha in 1 hour is amazing!

Shouldn't these rules be a bit more enforced?

Anyway I think I'll leave it that, please stop the flaming it's completely uncessary.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

22 Aug 2007 at 15:14 - 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tijger
No, you wouldnt.

You accept their rules when you enter and one of the rules is this:



They dont have to 'prove' anything, if Anet feels you have violated their terms in spirit you are out without recourse.
As long as their decision cannot be shown to have been made on illegal grounds (like racism), you will not get anything refunded or reinstated.
I will stop arguing, but a court of law is much stronger then the decision of ANet and whatever is stated in their EULA. The point is they have to be reasonable as well, otherwise a judge will not "understand" their argument. They need a proof to present to a judge, if they can't provide proof of the violation they will be held accountable for "damages". That is the basic principle of law. Remember cats in microwaves and McDonalds coffee, In the states they are much more perceptive to civilians compared to euro countries/states.

EroChrono

EroChrono

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Netherlands

[WitB]

W/

22 Aug 2007 at 15:53 - 55
I've had exactly the same experience, although for somewhat less.
I ran out of Altrumn Ruins twice within 10~20 to cap 2 skills.
Next I get banned, emailed them, got a reply which asked to provide my info; email, serial codes etc.
Then I get told a GM saw me showing automated behaviour so the ban stays.
I reply with a really detailed description of what I did that day, on which I get a reply with the "first time offence" stuff..

Basicly it comes down to "a GM is always right, even if you can prove you innocence to the point we believe you, the GM observation remains right".
You get unbanned, but they still consider you a cheater.. Really suck tbh

FenrirOfSleipnir

FenrirOfSleipnir

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Netherlands

Exclusive Club

W/

22 Aug 2007 at 15:54 - 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Anet is getting more strict with their bans. Its not that the game doesn't know your not a bot. Its easy to tell if some one is a bot. All you have to do is record their running paths in towns.

The real reason is because they make more money for banning. All the bots have to buy more accounts and Anet gets to claim you were doing bot like activity to justify the ban. Less players = less bandwidth they have to pay for and more accounts you have to buy.
Sorry to tell you but, when you get banned, your IP and anything that's connected to that IP (names, address, email) is banned along with it.

Go read the rules, it's in there.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

22 Aug 2007 at 16:08 - 57
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by twicky_kid
Anet is getting more strict with their bans. Its not that the game doesn't know your not a bot. Its easy to tell if some one is a bot. All you have to do is record their running paths in towns.

The real reason is because they make more money for banning. All the bots have to buy more accounts and Anet gets to claim you were doing bot like activity to justify the ban. Less players = less bandwidth they have to pay for and more accounts you have to buy.
explain the people posting here willing to buy another copy but ANET wont give them the written permission to start a new account?

profit? where?

and didnt you quit long ago with zinger?

thral

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

W/

22 Aug 2007 at 16:24 - 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_aok
To be perfectly honest.... if you sit there for AN ENTIRE DAY doing a 45 second run over and over again, I'd probably ban you too. Nobody has the mental capacity to do that. I remember spending 3 hours in a row doing the presearing rurik run for exp... my brain was melting out of my ears by the end of that. Count yourself lucky that you got unbanned imo.
Try doing 12+ hours of WTS blah blah blah >< after that u see life and time in a whole different way.

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

22 Aug 2007 at 16:48 - 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by zenatomiser
However my ban got me thinking that ANet is loosing control of the bot problem?
(sorry for what happened to you, but overall you were having fun in a quite "unexpected" way as your quest for this title led you to becoming extremely repetitive; as someone said, I don't share this attitude towards the game, but I understand at the same time the right of people to behave "like bots" )

I don't think we, however informed we are about the state of the game, can say that. There is NO way anyone can have a clear picture of the "bot threat", unless may be if you're at the core of the bot problem

Unfortunately, what happened to you is the inherent consequence of the "depth" of the problem, in the sense that GW is well architected and botters are becoming quite good. As someone funily mentioned in this thread, a single word in chat, or another action to break the repetitiveness (not looking like a random call to something, which bot can do to make the life of GMs harder), may help.

After all, from Anet's servers point of view, we are simply an IP and a long sequence of commands! They don't see (yet ) the person behind the program! I really hope your case will serve as a reminder that: 1) Anet is very serious about that issue; 2) they're not stupid (you got your account back! I understand why you'd want apologies, but I also understand why they don't have the TIME, not the WILL, to give it ... I mean try to put yourself in their shoes for at least 5 minutes, really trying to consider the depth of the issue from a more global point of view ...); 3) botters aren't stupid either (and they're not aiming at a title but TO MAKE ILLEGAL MONEY).

Hopefully, support from this forum and the GW community will help you go back to GW. They may have community relations like Gayle, but we still are the community.

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

22 Aug 2007 at 16:52 - 60
I'm sure you're all familiar with the old "walks like a duck" saying. If you go out of your way to look like a bot (be it intentional or not) then expect to be treated as one. Considering the number of hours and days you spent doing that I would still suspect you used a bot but talked your way out of it, so now you're hoping that by posting you look innocent. Of course, that only a feeling without evidence to support it.

But consider this... for hours on end you're observed doing the exact same thing over and over. Did you not stop for a bit to eat, use the restroom, shower, etc? No breaks in your activity that would have a GM notice and clear your name? Something at all that a bot wouldn't do? Interesting.

I'm seeing (but haven't seen personally) that the great majority of bots seems to have disappeared from the major bot-spots. It's nice to know that they are on the job and getting it done against huge odds.

I'm sorry, OP, but your story does invoke a bit of suspicion.

twicky_kid

twicky_kid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quite Vulgar [FUN]

22 Aug 2007 at 16:56 - 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by FenrirOfSleipnir
Sorry to tell you but, when you get banned, your IP and anything that's connected to that IP (names, address, email) is banned along with it.

Go read the rules, it's in there.
You people act like changing your IP is impossible. Its very easy to do. As far as personal info (name, address) its all fake to begin with. I never give anyone online my personal info. I'll fill in the blanks with some BS but that's about it. No botter, anti person info online, or anyone else that is intending to do something against the rules is going to give their personal info.

If you think the bots are going to stop just because they get banned you are nuts. They will get a new account or buy an existing one. Until the cost of the ban out weighs the profit it won't stop. The only people this really hurting is the real players.

GW might not be intending on making more profit because of the bans but they are. The botters will take the steps to get back into the game (buying more copies) while real players will be locked out unless they go around Anet's blocks.

haggus71

haggus71

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

FotS

22 Aug 2007 at 17:03 - 62
hmmm.....considering the massive amounts of posts and threads about grind and farming, you MIGHT want to second-guess the idea of trying for sympathy on the forums.

It's been said before, but I think you need to look not at whether they were right or wrong, but WHY they banned you.

Does it not bother you that you were acting like an automated computer program? It was nothing to you to spend an ENTIRE DAY OF YOUR LIFE sitting in front of a computer screen, doing the same actions over and over. At least with a data entry job you get paid, and only do it 8 hours a day. I pray you have an LCD monitor, because that CRT would burn a hole in your head.

You didn't chat with anyone in all that time? No guild? No friends? No one calling you on the phone? Not even Mom, if you don't still live at home? Seriously, Anet may not have meant to, but they gave you a wake-up call!

Reminds me of that episode of SNL with Shatner at a Trekkie Convention. Shatner: "You there, your what? 25? Have you ever kissed a girl?.........Get a life! Move out of your grandparents' basement!"

Personally, I am glad Anet is doing things like this. I've noticed the bot numbers drop bigtime, as of late, and as others have. Also, with the knowledge that too much grind could be interpreted this way, we might see favor drop from 1800 freaking minutes(I mean, there are only 1440 minutes in a DAY!).

=DNC=Trucker

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2006

TLA

Me/

22 Aug 2007 at 17:15 - 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
In that case maybe Anet shouldn't put titles in the game for which bot-like behaviour is the only viable way to get them maxed --- like the Treasure Hunter title is.
QFT!

4,5,6,7,8,9,10

Big_Iron

Big_Iron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Edge

Tormented Weapons [emo]

22 Aug 2007 at 17:26 - 64
People are missing the point of this thread by making observations about the OP's hours on the computer playing a game. That's not what this is about. If someone wants to spend 24/7 playing a game, it's their choice. If he played golf 8 hours a day, would anyone care? If he wants to spend hours grinding for a title, why do you people care? Personally, I think you need to back off the guy and try to stay on topic.

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

22 Aug 2007 at 17:32 - 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet
People are missing the point of this thread by making observations about the OP's hours on the computer playing a game. That's not what this is about. If someone wants to spend 24/7 playing a game, it's their choice. If he played golf 8 hours a day, would anyone care? If he wants to spend hours grinding for a title, why do you people care? Personally, I think you need to back off the guy and try to stay on topic.
Actually, that is the topic. It's not the hours he spent, but the hours he spent mimicking a bot that are relevant. If you play golf for eight hours you're not making the same shot repeatedly, you're walking the course and every shot is new. This guy stayed at the tee on the one whole and hooked the same ball into the same pond every shot for days.

Methinks the OP doth protest too much.

Big_Iron

Big_Iron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Edge

Tormented Weapons [emo]

22 Aug 2007 at 17:46 - 66
I get your point MSecorsky. I'm talking about the people saying things like he "deserved to get banned" and the typical "get a life" responses.

Shakti

Shakti

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2006

Home...

Vier Reiter [Vier]

22 Aug 2007 at 17:49 - 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet
People are missing the point of this thread by making observations about the OP's hours on the computer playing a game. That's not what this is about. If someone wants to spend 24/7 playing a game, it's their choice. If he played golf 8 hours a day, would anyone care? If he wants to spend hours grinding for a title, why do you people care? Personally, I think you need to back off the guy and try to stay on topic.
No offense but that kinda IS on topic. Most people freak about bots everywhere (see the gazillion and two posts/threads about that) We WANT Anet to do something. To do that they must ban the accts. To do that they ban accts showing bot-like behavior. The OP displayed bot-like behavior. The OP was banned. Makes sense to me. The OP got his/her acct back when he/she dealt with support. Support gave him/her a chance. Makes sense to me.

Anet is trying to clean up bots.....why is anyone upset? No one lost their acct, it was unbanned. They didn't apologize? What for? It might have been nice if they said "sorry for the mistake" but how do they KNOW it was a mistake if the OP DID in fact act botish? We want bots gone this will happen. If you are innocent you get acct back.

Emunator

Emunator

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

DVDF

Mo/E

22 Aug 2007 at 17:55 - 68
Ok people wake up and leave the OP be.

Tell me if this is bot like behaviour (bots are to make profit)

Say lockpicks (i suspect hm chest runs) are 1.2K each and he buys 100 that would make 120K he had to pay.
Now he get's 100 golds wich he sells for the going rate at 7 unidentified for 5K.
So 100/7=14.29 that times 5 = 71.45K

Well or i'm stupid or a-net could see those are non-profit runs that cost him about 50K for every 100 chests.

P.S. Correct me if i'm wrong and let him play the way he wants
Ok, might be a bit more profit because not all of his keys will break i guess.

MSecorsky

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

22 Aug 2007 at 17:57 - 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet
I get your point MSecorsky. I'm talking about the people saying things like he "deserved to get banned" and the typical "get a life" responses.
Although I disagree with the 'get a life' crowd I'm much less likely to disagree with the 'deserved to be banned' crowd simply due to the impression he gives that he may very well have been using a bot.

I will state clearly that if he indeed was botting he certainly deserved to be banned and it's a pity it was removed. If not, then no... no ban was deserved but it certainly was earned by his behaviour. It is difficult to feel sympathy in this case for the OP based upon admitted actions. However without all the facts no one should be reaching a clear, finalized decision one way or the other; everyone should, at most, be more conscious of their own actions and the possible side-effects of them.

Zorgy

Zorgy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2007

Paris, France

[any]

W/Me

22 Aug 2007 at 18:08 - 70
"....And yes i am very happy I got my account back but treating people like crap after they make a mistake is simply wrong..."

Anet didnt treat you like crap, while grinding for this title you BECAME A HUMAN FLESH BOT.

Try to act as A HUMAN BEING & NOT AS A BOT....shame on you game addiction leads to narrow-mindedness.

What a fun to open 300 chests in 5 hours watch out !!!!!

Legendary Shiz

Legendary Shiz

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2006

22 Aug 2007 at 18:20 - 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix
If you talk to people on Guild Chat or in PMs I imagine it won't look like you're botting. It's much easier to farm + chat to guildies or friends than to bother making yourself look unbotlike :P
Yeah I have rank 4 treasure hunter as well on one character, and I always kind of make sure to do something out of character for a bot just in case they decide to peep in on my account.

Wulfgast

Wulfgast

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2007

Louisville, KY, US

Rite of Passage [RP]

W/Rt

22 Aug 2007 at 18:22 - 72
Here's a clear, finalized decision:

Don't ban someone if you cannot prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are using a 3rd party program. Due process.

If you make a potentially incorrect judgment call and it is brought to your attention (as in, no proof is still available), then both apologize for and remove the negative marks from said person's record. Good customer service.

It's quite simple, really -- there's nothing to argue about. If the OP's story is accurate, then Anet is in the wrong.

Performance Pudding

Performance Pudding

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

post ascalon

Over The [Wall]

W/

22 Aug 2007 at 18:24 - 73
first off what does op stand for? 2nd omg never play for that long. and 3rd anet puts in the you have been playing for x hours please take a break for a reason. sitting at a comp all day is seriously un healthy. a way to conteract this is by making a schedule or getting a alarm clock and setting it for every hour. then you get up go for a walk or something active. together we can stop the world craveing for McDonalds... (i know somone who ate a shard of metal that was in a burger and got 20 mil out of it, i know crazy right!) but ya excersise releases more things that make you happy than video games. That is why people jog or bike or do sports.

Darksun

Darksun

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

USA

Karr's Castle

W/E

22 Aug 2007 at 18:42 - 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Smit
ca_aok, the ban was still not legitimate as they actually can't prove a single thing except repetitive behavior (which is NOT a violation of the EULA). They ASSUME 3rd programs to be used for this behavior.
The problem is that bots ARE repetitive behaviour. Most bots just repeat key strokes, so it really is nothing more than repetitive behaviour. 5hrs of the SAME EXACT thing? I think perhapses there is nothing wrong with telling a person to stop doing that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu
True there is still no reconnect feature for Real life. Why aren't the devs working on a reconnect.... If i was a CR/PR rep I wouldn't speak out but, the last guy the company sent down was crucified
LOL see how GM's get treated?! Make a whole world for us and we complain about not getting exp & gold fast enough! Surprised they haven't done a server wipe.

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

22 Aug 2007 at 18:49 - 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu
You deserve the ban, seriously all that time chest running. Dude get out of the house go see the daylight, ride a bike, watch a movie without download times, chat up a girl, atleast try to live damn it!


Warning real life is seriously lacking in res shrines... becareful
Quote:
Originally Posted by prism2525
Thank you for trying to start a flame war... but it didn't work.

Anet banned him because they thought he was a bot: something which could have been cleared up easily by whisping him/her. The ban, according to the OP's story, is totally unjustified and doesn't deserve the "one-time offender mark". He was just grinding for a title (boring as hell and anyone can tell him to get a life and all, but no reason to ban).
Don't ever talk to me again apart from to offer me an apology, seriously I never want to hear from you ever again! The Op even admits bot like behaviour, including chest running for up till 5hours over a 24hr period, he even admits how it could be considered bot like with his behaviour, I just made a clearly sarcastic statement in reply to his comments.

Now I'm sending this to your via PM and also taking the matter up via PM with Guru Mods, please Reframe from assulting my character on this or any other message board.


Quote:
Originally Posted by zenatomiser
...A friend tells me about this really great run where he gets 1 chest every 45~ seconds and it spawns almost always. So i go try it out... perfect just what I need to get my title up to rank 4.

So i do this in the evening and open up around 50-70 chests and go to sleep. Next morning I decide to do this all day long. It's very simple very easy and very mindless. You don't need to think how to get past groups or anything, just check if chest spawned put up Shadow Form and go in. After I get the chest I type /resign and return to outpost. So doing this for a whole day or atleast most of the day, I recall seeing "you have played for 5 hours bla bla" I end up with around 300~ chests done in 1 day. I think to myself wow this is awesome way to get chest hunter title. Sure it's boring but atleast it's easy and fast. Next day I do around 150~ chests getting slightly bored of it. And finally on the 3rd day i get my last 100~ chests and get rank 4 .

Meanwhile all the gold drops I get i sell Unidentified to other people to get my money back. Since I spend a huge amount of money on keys and need to keep going with the title.

Now how suspicious can a guy get right? Zone in and out every minute for 5h+ must be a bot right? Well ANet Thinks so.

Righty back to my messages to customer service, my last reply was sent off at 17:40 UK time, which at the time I didn't noticed but im guessing it's around 20 mins before they close it off and call it a day.
Now I never said he was running a bot, just I implied in a sarcastic manner that he should see the out doors. But if u continue to imply that my only merit is to start a 'flame' topic I really I little recourse.

By the way your getting via a PM as well a several Mods, in best interest I suggest your offer an apology!

Fril Estelin

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

22 Aug 2007 at 18:58 - 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulfgast
Here's a clear, finalized decision:

Don't ban someone if you cannot prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are using a 3rd party program. Due process.
Utter non-sense, from a technical and legal standpoint. One can have what one wants on itc PC, it's the client-side and under control of the player, not Anet. But one has to accept the EULA that says: no "modifications" to the client, or ban. One can challenge legaly their means of checking "modifications" (since they don't and can't fully access the client ... and shouldn't!) but I doubt you'll gain anything else. We all paid for the game UNDER THIS EULA, don't like it (meaning the whole process, including the 9x% who play fine and the few rare people who are banned while not being bots, but their accounts are unbanned) then buy another game...

Quote:
If you make a potentially incorrect judgment call and it is brought to your attention (as in, no proof is still available), then both apologize for and remove the negative marks from said person's record. Good customer service.
How do you (or we) know that the OP wasn't covering a bot behaviour with this story? (I don't trust or distrust him, but I would rather tend to believe him given the length of his message and the thousands of hours played)

Well put yourselves in Anet's shoes: facing a real "threat" such as bots, you DO NOT assume the best when there's a "bot-like behaviour", because otherwise you'd hurt the whole community (every botter would invent a story ...) It's sad for the OP, and the other ones, but let's hope he's not lost all faith in Anet!

Quote:
It's quite simple, really -- there's nothing to argue about. If the OP's story is accurate, then Anet is in the wrong.
The OP should provide a video of himself typing like a bot for several hours in a row, that's THE solution!

Ghost Omel

Ghost Omel

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

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W/

22 Aug 2007 at 19:01 - 77
I dont think you have the right to tell some 1 to get a life in my opinion if person wants to acomplish a video game content it doesnmt mean that person has no life you are trieng to acomplish somehitng here dont you you try and acomplish your defence and you sit oinfront of PC right now arenmt you? So any 1 can say go get a life as well get a bike ride instead of defending yourself on a forum against person who you never met before and yet you THREATEN him i think it isnt fair or human like you expressed your opinion and he expresed HIS opinion. I dont know about war things or watever you use around here but you are starting verbal battle for shure

VanDamselx

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Buffalo, NY

[TTBH]

22 Aug 2007 at 19:48 - 78
Glad to hear you got your account back but I can totally see why it happened. You should always take a break, like go do a mission or quest, or log onto another character altogether and sell those un'ids or something. Of course they're gonna throw loops when you try to get your account back. Why shouldn't they? If someone used a bot, then regretted it and swore on their own life they didn't use one and A-Net just says, "Okay we believe you, your account is unbanned," people would be fuming.

And by the way, for those saying that you could take A-Net to court, I'd love to see you try it because those corporate lawyers will stomp on your ass.

Shiishii Momo

Shiishii Momo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

I need a guild, R5 KOBD

N/

22 Aug 2007 at 20:11 - 79
/failed



EDIT: happy you got your account back though.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

22 Aug 2007 at 20:18 - 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darksun
The problem is that bots ARE repetitive behaviour. Most bots just repeat key strokes, so it really is nothing more than repetitive behaviour. 5hrs of the SAME EXACT thing? I think perhapses there is nothing wrong with telling a person to stop doing that....
Its a way to play the game and its not against the EULA. BOTS are not people (small underpayed humans in low wage countries if you thinks so) who do repetitive things my friend, BOTS are software that perform the keystrokes, meaning zoning in, killing mobs, and picking up the loot, zone out, sell loot (probs require human intervention to sift out golds), zone in again.

Its not repetitive behavior that is against the EULA, but it is the use of third party software, and the sales of in game gold for real money that is against the eula. It is more clear now?