This is my first time using the Heroes in the game and they seem pretty weak which is probably why they are so easy to attain.
I was struggling on the Eye of Defence quest, I could not get in a group so I tried using 3 Heroes and 4 henches, I tried it over and over trying different henches and was getting wiped every time.
After getting wiped 6-7 times in a row I kicked the Heroes and used all henches, completed the mission and no one died not even the extra help.
Since then I have been using just henches and I am having a much easier go doing the quests and surviving big mobs etc... I would have figured the Heroes would have been more powerful than the henches being called Heroes, guess not.
The Heroes are pretty weak
Cobalt
-Loki-
You must have given your heroes some pretty naff bars then.
Navaros
Heroes are very powerful if you the player makes them poweful by giving them a good skillbar. If you are using the default skillbar of your Heroes then yes of course that's crap. But no one uses the default skillbar of Heroes. You should also give some some good weapons, runes, and insignias too.
Once you learn to give your Heroes good skillbars you will come to realize they are vastly better than most real players, (as are henchies) and vastly better than henchies too.
Once you learn to give your Heroes good skillbars you will come to realize they are vastly better than most real players, (as are henchies) and vastly better than henchies too.
Cobalt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
Heroes are very powerful if you the player makes them poweful by giving them a good skillbar. If you are using the default skillbar of your Heroes then yes of course that's crap. But no one uses the default skillbar of Hereoes.
Once you learn to give your Heroes good skillbars you will come to realize they are vastly better than most real players, as are henchies, and vastly better than henchies too.
Oh did not know you could do that I will have to figure out how that is done.
Thanks
Once you learn to give your Heroes good skillbars you will come to realize they are vastly better than most real players, as are henchies, and vastly better than henchies too.
Thanks
Arkantos
After completing many parts of prophecies, factions, and nightfall with heroes/henchies I must say you're wrong. It usually helps to give your heroes runes, good weapons and good builds. Of course a hero is going to suck if they have a crap build.
moriz
granted, the new GW:EN henchies are very powerful. devona with backbreaker+crushing blow+counter blow (and knowing how to use them) is very deadly. oh yeah, and mhenlo with light of deliverance.
to change the hero skills, press K and click on their portrait on the top of the window. go nuts.
to change the hero skills, press K and click on their portrait on the top of the window. go nuts.
Ensign
Heroes mirror your own ability. If you're worse than a henchman, your heroes will be worse than henchmen as you'll give them awful skillbars. With the henchmen having stronger skillsets in EotN, I expect a lot of people's heroes to be weaker than henchmen.
DarkFlame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt
Oh did not know you could do that I will have to figure out how that is done.
Thanks Press "K" You change their skillbars in the same place you change yours, just switch to them when changing their skills. You can also bring up their skillbar onto the screen if you want to micro-manage how and when they use their skills.
Thanks Press "K" You change their skillbars in the same place you change yours, just switch to them when changing their skills. You can also bring up their skillbar onto the screen if you want to micro-manage how and when they use their skills.
Keifru
The sword is only as good as the swordmaster.
:3
Also note, heroes wont use some skills right. Like savanna heat, they will usually cast it last, or near last.
:3
Also note, heroes wont use some skills right. Like savanna heat, they will usually cast it last, or near last.
Whirlwind
You need to get the right runes and insignias for what you plan on using them for. They also need a good weapon and a good build that fits into the team build Its basicly like being 4 of the people in the group of 8, setting up a team build, except you have a LOT more control, over everything.
So really its just a matter of thought... And yeah i believe hench are probably better, BEFORE you set up your heroes correctly (runes insig wep build - fit into team build).
But once you have they are a lot more flexible and you'll thank yourself for doing so. Not to mention you control what they do and when they cast if you so wish..
Yeah i guess heroes suck... like a check for 3 million dollars sucks...
So really its just a matter of thought... And yeah i believe hench are probably better, BEFORE you set up your heroes correctly (runes insig wep build - fit into team build).
But once you have they are a lot more flexible and you'll thank yourself for doing so. Not to mention you control what they do and when they cast if you so wish..
Yeah i guess heroes suck... like a check for 3 million dollars sucks...
Pkest
Heroes are only as good as you make them. If you only play one profession and don't have many skills unlocked then your heroes won't be any better than henchies. But if you play lots of chars and have lots of elites and skills unlocked and you buy them runes and give them decent weapons then your heroes will be your best allies in this game.
ValaOfTheFens
My guide to using heroes:
1. Unlock alot of skills. Heroes can use all non-PvE-Only and non-titled dependent skills you've unlocked. I try to get 10,000 faction a week from ABing and get alot of Balth faction along with Luxon faction. If you don't have Factions just do Random Arenas a few times a week. Using Balth faction to unlock skills saves you loads of money and time.
2. Learn to use the flag. Heroes will follow you wherever you go. So if you want to pull a mob you need to use the flag. It will keep you AND your heroes alive.
3. Be aware of your heroes' skillbars. I used to get mad when Acolyte Sosuke would run into battle instead nuking at a nice, safe distance. But I recently realized his bar was filled with skills like [skill=text]Inferno[/skill] and [skill=text]Flame Djinn's Haste[/skill].
So make sure your heroes' skills reflect your goals.
4. Different areas require different builds. Its pointless to have skills that are useless in that particular area. Example, don't give a Warrior hero Gash or a bring Minion Master in an area with no fleshy creatures. So have a few builds for each profession. GuildWiki builds are just fine for heroes. *lol*
5. Don't spend any money on them if you can help it. Most people just leave their heroes with whatever weapons they come with or give them drops. The same is true for runes. The only runes I've ever bought for a Hero are Superior Absorbtion and Superior Divine Favor and only because I use them alot. Note: You can give heroes weapons that are customized for you. The GoTY and the GWEN preorder items are a good example.
1. Unlock alot of skills. Heroes can use all non-PvE-Only and non-titled dependent skills you've unlocked. I try to get 10,000 faction a week from ABing and get alot of Balth faction along with Luxon faction. If you don't have Factions just do Random Arenas a few times a week. Using Balth faction to unlock skills saves you loads of money and time.
2. Learn to use the flag. Heroes will follow you wherever you go. So if you want to pull a mob you need to use the flag. It will keep you AND your heroes alive.
3. Be aware of your heroes' skillbars. I used to get mad when Acolyte Sosuke would run into battle instead nuking at a nice, safe distance. But I recently realized his bar was filled with skills like [skill=text]Inferno[/skill] and [skill=text]Flame Djinn's Haste[/skill].
So make sure your heroes' skills reflect your goals.4. Different areas require different builds. Its pointless to have skills that are useless in that particular area. Example, don't give a Warrior hero Gash or a bring Minion Master in an area with no fleshy creatures. So have a few builds for each profession. GuildWiki builds are just fine for heroes. *lol*
5. Don't spend any money on them if you can help it. Most people just leave their heroes with whatever weapons they come with or give them drops. The same is true for runes. The only runes I've ever bought for a Hero are Superior Absorbtion and Superior Divine Favor and only because I use them alot. Note: You can give heroes weapons that are customized for you. The GoTY and the GWEN preorder items are a good example.
mscobra
Hero's are what you make them!
1. Items you give them
2. runes/sigs you give them
3. skills you give them
4. how much you play their skill bar yourself to train them your style of play
1. Items you give them
2. runes/sigs you give them
3. skills you give them
4. how much you play their skill bar yourself to train them your style of play
Whirlwind
Quote:
5. Don't spend any money on them if you can help it. Most people just leave their heroes with whatever weapons they come with or give them drops. The same is true for runes. The only runes I've ever bought for a Hero are Superior Absorbtion and Superior Divine Favor and only because I use them alot. Note: You can give heroes weapons that are customized for you. The GoTY and the GWEN preorder items are a good example
Im sorry but that is terrible advice... the (Gwen) pre-order hourglass staff is nice on a ele (always enchanted), the other 2 suck. Other then that, they NEED insignias and runes and a quality weapon or they are no better then a henchie that lets you cast for them.
LumpOfCole
Runes and Insignias on heroes can get quite expensive, but they're very good investments. Also, when you salvage runes back off of your hero, the armor cannot be destroyed! I switch my Olias between Blood Magic +3 and Death Magic +3 all the time with this tactic, depending on if I want my Double Necro SS/SV combo or just a plain, ass-whomping MM.
stueyman2099
I'd like to take a moment to point out that none of my hero's have any runes or insignia's. Good skillset is good enough.
Sasuke The Betrayer
Quote:
Originally Posted by stueyman2099
I'd like to take a moment to point out that none of my hero's have any runes or insignia's. Good skillset is good enough.
Same... except I use a couple rune or two. I even do HM with them. All I get is a superior rune depending on their build, and maybe a minor if they need. For my healers, I use major heal major divine.
MrFuzzles
One thing you need to remember when setting up hero builds, is that they absolutely suck at energy management and skill synergies (like ebon hawk + stoning + aftershock, they just spam the skills randomly)
It really helps when trying a new build for them to keep their control panel up, and keep a close eye on what skills they're using and how they're doing on energy.
A sweet setup on a hero is absolutely useless if he spends all his energy on one skill that does jack s**t every 30 seconds.
It really helps when trying a new build for them to keep their control panel up, and keep a close eye on what skills they're using and how they're doing on energy.
A sweet setup on a hero is absolutely useless if he spends all his energy on one skill that does jack s**t every 30 seconds.
strcpy
I'll throw in my two cents also.
First if you simply give them a good skillbar and equip drops on them you should still have better than the hench. If you have the gold they are more effective the better they are equipped. There are few builds that I automatically fully equip - a minion master or my monk.
Secondly they do considerably more than simply randomly spam skills, you just have to figure out how they work. Click the little number beside their name and it will open their control panel, while this is useful to force casting something (traps, spirits, or maintained enchants) or for micromanaging them, it is indispensable in creating a build for them - you can see their health, energy, what/when they are using skills, and what skills are recharging. There are some skill chains they do well, others not so much.
Note that they use skills based on what they need at the time - for example they will only cast self healing skills when they need it. Secondly each skill tends to only have one "USE" - you may use life stealing skills as a self heal, they may use it a damage and spam it like crazy. So pay attention to how they are using that skill - it can be irritating what they see a skills use as sometimes. Probably the most irritating case of this I see is "Wild Blow" - they see it simply as extra damage. They do not see it as a stance breaker nor do they take into account adrenaline gain. Since that is normally going to be the highest +damage skill available on your bar they spam it at every possible moment - your warrior hero will *never* gain adrenaline. You can create an energy based warrior build, or you can disable the skill (shift+click on it in the skills screen) and then activate it manually when needed (the interface from clicking the number by their name), but you have to have watched how they use to know to do this.
And, lastly, some random thoughts:
I would suggest you watch enemies you come up against, if you happen to notice them doing something especially well so will your heroes - copy the skill chain. Of course, being AI the simpler the skill bar the better, but do not be afraid to experiment - nothing to loose and they sometimes "get" complex builds. They have the same amazing reflexes that the computer uses against you (you know, interrupt 1/4 second cast time and interrupting targets that they aren't even currently focused on), makes for great interrupters and minim masters (with a bloodstained insignia they almost always win the corpse or if you have a "free" skill slot throw in an interrupt). And, lastly - use flags - they are your friend and remember you can individual flag heroes.
Anyway, have fun. Even more so than the hench they are only as good as you. You now have some team builds available and quite a few roles that no hench has ever been made to fill.
First if you simply give them a good skillbar and equip drops on them you should still have better than the hench. If you have the gold they are more effective the better they are equipped. There are few builds that I automatically fully equip - a minion master or my monk.
Secondly they do considerably more than simply randomly spam skills, you just have to figure out how they work. Click the little number beside their name and it will open their control panel, while this is useful to force casting something (traps, spirits, or maintained enchants) or for micromanaging them, it is indispensable in creating a build for them - you can see their health, energy, what/when they are using skills, and what skills are recharging. There are some skill chains they do well, others not so much.
Note that they use skills based on what they need at the time - for example they will only cast self healing skills when they need it. Secondly each skill tends to only have one "USE" - you may use life stealing skills as a self heal, they may use it a damage and spam it like crazy. So pay attention to how they are using that skill - it can be irritating what they see a skills use as sometimes. Probably the most irritating case of this I see is "Wild Blow" - they see it simply as extra damage. They do not see it as a stance breaker nor do they take into account adrenaline gain. Since that is normally going to be the highest +damage skill available on your bar they spam it at every possible moment - your warrior hero will *never* gain adrenaline. You can create an energy based warrior build, or you can disable the skill (shift+click on it in the skills screen) and then activate it manually when needed (the interface from clicking the number by their name), but you have to have watched how they use to know to do this.
And, lastly, some random thoughts:
I would suggest you watch enemies you come up against, if you happen to notice them doing something especially well so will your heroes - copy the skill chain. Of course, being AI the simpler the skill bar the better, but do not be afraid to experiment - nothing to loose and they sometimes "get" complex builds. They have the same amazing reflexes that the computer uses against you (you know, interrupt 1/4 second cast time and interrupting targets that they aren't even currently focused on), makes for great interrupters and minim masters (with a bloodstained insignia they almost always win the corpse or if you have a "free" skill slot throw in an interrupt). And, lastly - use flags - they are your friend and remember you can individual flag heroes.
Anyway, have fun. Even more so than the hench they are only as good as you. You now have some team builds available and quite a few roles that no hench has ever been made to fill.
Keifru
I've got 1/4 elonian vanquisher with non-runed/insgniaed heroes...and all the weapons they have are /bonus stuff (GoTY+EoTN Pre-Order)
Skillbars are like 70% of the battle.
Skillbars are like 70% of the battle.
Traveller
I usually equip my heroes with pre-order weapons and a major rune of main attribute to their headgear and I've usually had no troubles whatsoever.
freekedoutfish
I have to agree with those who are basically saying...
...you heroes are as effective as you make and use them. Im assuming you dont have NF and this is your first contact with heroes? They take practive and setting up and they are far from useless and underpowerd.
Stick an MM in your team and you will soon be able to wipe most areas in NM.
And for those who are going to tell you to give them all green and gold weapons and max runes, thats nonsense. A heroe can be just effective with just a bog standard max weapon and no runes as the next player.
...you heroes are as effective as you make and use them. Im assuming you dont have NF and this is your first contact with heroes? They take practive and setting up and they are far from useless and underpowerd.
Stick an MM in your team and you will soon be able to wipe most areas in NM.
And for those who are going to tell you to give them all green and gold weapons and max runes, thats nonsense. A heroe can be just effective with just a bog standard max weapon and no runes as the next player.
Cobalt
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkFlame
Press "K" You change their skillbars in the same place you change yours, just switch to them when changing their skills. You can also bring up their skillbar onto the screen if you want to micro-manage how and when they use their skills.
I was able to do that, changed some skills and was able to give two of them elite skills and it made a huge improvement!
Now from what I can tell to really get the best use out of them you really need to have played all the classes to know what their best builds are and to have unlocked/purchased/attained the skills as well as capped the elite skills.
I am going to have to make myself a Mes and Necro to do just that.
Now from what I can tell to really get the best use out of them you really need to have played all the classes to know what their best builds are and to have unlocked/purchased/attained the skills as well as capped the elite skills.
I am going to have to make myself a Mes and Necro to do just that.
Kinn
Heroes actually make the game wayyy too easy, and essentially turn Guild Wars into a single player game for those who aren't fortunate enough to have a big list of decent friends at their beck and call.
I mean, there are some hero skill bars that play out far, FAR more effectively on an AI than a real person. Jagged Bones MMs for example. Heroes also make inhumanly good interrupters due to the fact that they tend to fire off the interrupt before the server message that the monster is activating a skill has even reached your computer.
Heroes kinda broke the game IMO
I mean, there are some hero skill bars that play out far, FAR more effectively on an AI than a real person. Jagged Bones MMs for example. Heroes also make inhumanly good interrupters due to the fact that they tend to fire off the interrupt before the server message that the monster is activating a skill has even reached your computer.
Heroes kinda broke the game IMO
OlMurraniKasale
Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
But no one uses the default skillbar of Heroes.
No one? I haven't touched the hero skill bars except for Jora, and all she got was hundred blades. I've battled through most of the Shiverpeaks, and yeah there was a tough spot or two where I was stupid and let another mob come in behind; otherwise its been fairly easy, even Frostmaw!
I haven't been in a people group since I started GWEN. I almost always take Lina, Devona, Talon with Ogden and the others variable. Gwen is good, Vekk is ok, Jora is nice on the eyes . . ..
I'm not savvy enough with every professions' skills to know what is better, but the one thing I know is that proper positioning of heroes greatly affects the outcome (monks in the back, etc - flagged). All that with me being a rit.
I did learn a lesson from Elona though - I did try to micromanage the skillbars of my heroes, and man, how pathetic! I eventually had to return the skillbars to basic. If you don't know skills, let basic guide you!
No one? I haven't touched the hero skill bars except for Jora, and all she got was hundred blades. I've battled through most of the Shiverpeaks, and yeah there was a tough spot or two where I was stupid and let another mob come in behind; otherwise its been fairly easy, even Frostmaw!
I haven't been in a people group since I started GWEN. I almost always take Lina, Devona, Talon with Ogden and the others variable. Gwen is good, Vekk is ok, Jora is nice on the eyes . . ..
I'm not savvy enough with every professions' skills to know what is better, but the one thing I know is that proper positioning of heroes greatly affects the outcome (monks in the back, etc - flagged). All that with me being a rit.
I did learn a lesson from Elona though - I did try to micromanage the skillbars of my heroes, and man, how pathetic! I eventually had to return the skillbars to basic. If you don't know skills, let basic guide you!
Paloma Song
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinn
and essentially turn Guild Wars into a single player game for those who aren't fortunate enough to have a big list of decent friends at their beck and call.
This isn't a bad thing. It's the best thing to happen to GW.
blackulaa
I agree with the poster above me. I bout GW just for EOTN. Therefore I only have Ranger/Mesmer Skills unlocked. I just beat the Frostmaw Burrows. It took me a minute, but strategy, positioning, and telling my Monk to run and hide got me through everything the game has had to offer so far...