Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
I screwed around with it and was vastly underwhelmed. Strength of honor is the big ticket skill there, but it just doesn't have enough of a "money" effect that I'm comfortable using half my att points and skillbar for it. PvE warriors spamming dslash and the like already do 50+ damage per hit, an extra 13 just doesn't do anything gamebreaking.
You'd only want to consider the smiting stuff if you don't think the Restoration skills are worthwhile. If it doesn't you have half your attribute points and half your skillbar free to put whatever you want in (since you're just Splinter / Ancestor's / Deathpact / Offering).
You are underestimating the value of Strength of Honor there; and extra 13 per hit, even if your guys are hitting for 50 normally, is another half a Warrior worth of damage passively; it's also armor ignoring damage that's even better against bosses. The smites are similarly armor ignoring, substantial AoEs; no they're not spammable but you don't need them to be since Splinter / Ancestors are being spammed so often.
Again I wouldn't bother unless decided Restoration wasn't that good, and it isn't really gamebreaking stuff, but it's all strong skills that make good use of energy without a signficant time requirement.
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
As a final thing in this rambling post from hell, I've heard flag runner rits are getting some attention in GvG. I'd be curious what they're running, if anyone knows.
Weapon of Remedy / Weapon of Warding / Wielder's Boon / Ancestor's Rage /Splinter Weapon / Dash / Dark Escape.
Some people drop the /Assassin stuff for Pious Haste. You'll see Warmonger's Weapon or Weapon of Shadow added on occasion as well.
18 Oct 2007 at 21:22 - 20
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Originally Posted by Ensign
Why do you take a spirit at all? Are any of those worth the skill slot they demand? Recovery is good in a few zones; Life is ok in easy mode but really isn't anything special.
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Not saccing for offering seems like a good idea, and it's also a convenient anchor for spirit light if I'm bringing that. When I'm running ward bitch, I usually bring bloodsong since I'm not speccing restoration, but honestly, anything the spirit does is just a pleasant side effect.
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Originally Posted by Ensign
I'd think you had more variable slots than that. Splinter / Ancestors / Deathpact are the only must-runs; Offering is clearly the best PvE elite if you don't want to run Expel, and the only really worthwhile Resto stuff is Weapon of Shadow and Protective Was Kaolai. The rest is noise, I'd be packing my bar with weird stuff from my secondary and PvE skills (Ebon Vanguard Battle Standards anyone?)
Spirit rift comes and goes, usually for assassin summon or pain inverter. (Splinter weapon + ancestor's rage on the summoned sin is hilarious).
The spirit slot seems kinda stuck that way with offering. if I'm running an alternate elite, that slot turns into some other form of energy management anyway, like essence strike or GoLE.
As for resto, pure was li ming, weapon of warding, and spirit transfer are also pretty damned useful. Pure is especially sexy against condition spammers, it's extinguish on steroids.
21 Oct 2007 at 08:42 - 21
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Not saccing for offering seems like a good idea
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If there's a spirit that you want that is legitimately good for what you're doing, such as Recovery in Shards of Orr, I would certainly drop that on your bar, and the extra synergy from Offering of Spirit makes the skill that much sweeter. But you should never feel like you need to take a spirit to run Offering, the skill is great even without it, and your bar can be that much better with the extra slot - not to mention the time and energy not being spent on a spirit.
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
As for resto, pure was li ming, weapon of warding, and spirit transfer are also pretty damned useful. Pure is especially sexy against condition spammers, it's extinguish on steroids.
I like the Pure Pot as well; the only strike against it in my book is the questionable synergy with Protective Was Kaolai. Weapon of Warding I'm less of a fan of; focused enchant strips aren't nearly as common in PvE, and without pervasive strips Weapon of Warding isn't nearly as attractive. Of course in some zones it's pure gold.
Spirit Transfer requires me to play with a spirit, and costs 10 for any other single target red bars effect. I'd take Spirit Light if I really, really wanted a red bars skill under those situations.
21 Oct 2007 at 09:45 - 22
Rit's are fun aren't they? Or is it just a challenge to play them since they are inherently bad at 'holy-trinity' and thus somewhat awkward in pve?
Those rit runners are great in GvG from what I've seen of them. If I was still playing GvG (many guilds ago) I'd love to try running that.
@Ensign:
How do they fair up against Crip Shots or BA's (if they are still around)? Not being able to remove conditions (especially crippled) sounds a bit 'gg' from what I can see.
21 Oct 2007 at 09:58 - 23
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Originally Posted by frojack
How do they fair up against Crip Shots or BA's (if they are still around)? Not being able to remove conditions (especially crippled) sounds a bit 'gg' from what I can see.
Weapon of Remedy removes onditions
21 Oct 2007 at 10:24 - 24
It does, but also requires the ranger to remove it for you. If that ranger wants you snared, it would be pretty silly to 'help' you remove it.
Even if it seems beneficial for both parties (ranger has you snared, but he can't kill you), the 1 second recharge on Crip Shot has rendered this meaningless...
22 Oct 2007 at 20:16 - 25
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Originally Posted by frojack
How do they fair up against Crip Shots or BA's (if they are still around)? Not being able to remove conditions (especially crippled) sounds a bit 'gg' from what I can see.
There really isn't very much that a runner can bring that deals with Cripshot - and no, Mending Touch doesn't deal with it. It has a recharge, Crippling Shot essentially doesn't, and you're generally buying yourself a second free of cripple at best - you would have made more progress if you had just kept walking crippled than stopped to Mending Touch.
Water Eles have Blurred Vision, which in combination with Mending Touch can make a bit of progress - though Blurred rarely gets off if you have a flag in your hand and they're sitting in your face. Monks with Purifying Veil actually do the best, since it makes the cripple short enough that you can outrun the cripshot if he stops to put up Apply.
But practically, there isn't a viable runner that doesn't demand assistance when he has a Cripshot camping his path to the stand, they all require a split response. Hence the flagger character's response to a Cripshot in his face is fairly low priority.
22 Oct 2007 at 20:56 - 26
I hate seeing people neglect a classes primary attribute. 3 Spawning Power does not help your spirits or weapon spells very much. This is the Channeling build I found most fun and effective in PvE.
[skill]Destructive Was Glaive[/skill][skill]Renewing Surge[/skill][skill]Bloodsong[/skill][skill]Channeled Strike[/skill][skill]Essence Strike[/skill][skill]Warmonger's Weapon[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]
12+1+3 Channeling
12+1 Spawning
Depending on which hench or heroes I take, I'll usually drop one of the weapon spells for Vampirism.
23 Oct 2007 at 02:10 - 27
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
I hate seeing people neglect a classes primary attribute. 3 Spawning Power does not help your spirits or weapon spells very much. This is the Channeling build I found most fun and effective in PvE.
[skill]Destructive Was Glaive[/skill][skill]Renewing Surge[/skill][skill]Bloodsong[/skill][skill]Channeled Strike[/skill][skill]Essence Strike[/skill][skill]Warmonger's Weapon[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]
12+1+3 Channeling
12+1 Spawning
Depending on which hench or heroes I take, I'll usually drop one of the weapon spells for Vampirism.
Surely you can find something more useful for those 97 attribute points than an extra 4 seconds on Warmonger's Weapon.
23 Oct 2007 at 02:28 - 28
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
I hate seeing people neglect a classes primary attribute. 3 Spawning Power does not help your spirits or weapon spells very much. This is the Channeling build I found most fun and effective in PvE.
Sadly, spawning power just doesn't do much. The extra health for your spirits is really only helpful is you're spamming the defensive spirits - which you probably shouldn't be doing anymore. Who cares if bloodsong dies easily? With 16 or 0 spawning power, it's going to die in about 3 seconds if anything attacks it.
Since it completely sucked, they added the extended weapon duration and a few skills. The skills can be helpful, but they don't really fit in every build. The weapon duration seems nice on the surface, but the actual increase is so small that it's not worth caring. An extra 2 seconds on weapon of warding if I waste half my att points just doesn't seem like a good investment.
Basically, treat spawning power like strength - only bother speccing it if you want the skills.
23 Oct 2007 at 21:32 - 29
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Originally Posted by Allmightybob
Surely you can find something more useful for those 97 attribute points than an extra 4 seconds on Warmonger's Weapon.
Look closely at the attributes the skills I posted use. If I wanted to use another skill or 2 from a different attribute, I'd run 12/10/8. I don't see many Rit builds that use no spirits, and no weapon spells, I do see many builds that use 'utility' skills that need no attribute points, but they get a large amount. Rt/Mo with condition/hex removal can work, but there isn't a need for many/any attribute points invested in Protection/Smiting for those. Inspiration Magic can be a bonus for enegry management, but I rarely see a Rit using skills from there, or attribute points spent in Inspiration.
Except for the Rt/N minion bombers, Spawning Power is underused. Is it 'crucial' to making a build function? No. It does, however, offer benefits worthy of being used.
23 Oct 2007 at 21:47 - 30
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Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Look closely at the attributes the skills I posted use. If I wanted to use another skill or 2 from a different attribute, I'd run 12/10/8. I don't see many Rit builds that use no spirits, and no weapon spells, I do see many builds that use 'utility' skills that need no attribute points, but they get a large amount. Rt/Mo with condition/hex removal can work, but there isn't a need for many/any attribute points invested in Protection/Smiting for those. Inspiration Magic can be a bonus for enegry management, but I rarely see a Rit using skills from there, or attribute points spent in Inspiration.
Except for the Rt/N minion bombers, Spawning Power is underused. Is it 'crucial' to making a build function? No. It does, however, offer benefits worthy of being used.
Spawning power doesn't help spirits at all, they still die in one-two hits, especially since the recent nerf, so its a waste on spirits, and the bonus 2 or so seconds on weapon spells is a waste, when you could have better utility skills from other lines instead of wasting points on something that barely helps (not to mention not all weapon spells work with timers, so to speak, things like splinter, vengeful, remedy, and nightmare works on a certain number of hits or work when you take damage). The reason rits dont use inspiration magic, is because of OoS, you really dont need much else for e-management.
The only thing Spawning Power is useful for is Rt/N bombers, maybe Wielder's Zeal weapon spammers (dont think they are very useful, but thats just me) and SS rits, buts those arent really competitive, more of a fun build.
SP is not worthy of being used until SR if worse than SP in actual usefulness.
23 Oct 2007 at 22:54 - 31
Man, for a PvE build, you sure don't have any fun PvE-only skills. I love running 'em, and some of them can sync up very well with common builds.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10197657 is a thread I made earlier to highlight some of the skills that integrate well, but it never took off, unfortunately. I strongly suggest you take a look at ALL the PvE skills though with a little creativity. 
24 Oct 2007 at 19:19 - 32
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Originally Posted by Ensign
There really isn't very much that a runner can bring that deals with Cripshot - and no, Mending Touch doesn't deal with it. It has a recharge, Crippling Shot essentially doesn't, and you're generally buying yourself a second free of cripple at best - you would have made more progress if you had just kept walking crippled than stopped to Mending Touch.
Water Eles have Blurred Vision, which in combination with Mending Touch can make a bit of progress - though Blurred rarely gets off if you have a flag in your hand and they're sitting in your face. Monks with Purifying Veil actually do the best, since it makes the cripple short enough that you can outrun the cripshot if he stops to put up Apply.
But practically, there isn't a viable runner that doesn't demand assistance when he has a Cripshot camping his path to the stand, they all require a split response. Hence the flagger character's response to a Cripshot in his face is fairly low priority.
Figured as much. I was indeed looking at Purifying Veil and thought "ok, 9 seconds (crippled mod) comes down to 5. Add a 20% condition rune; does it come to 4? Might be worth a look...". Then I thought, maybes a Wielder's Remedy guy, but that's an extra slot, never mind Apply on top of Crip Shot.
In truth it probably isn't worth trying to put any runner solo up against Crip Shot like you say. Still, it would be interesting to see how something like Wielder's Remedy would work out, if it were somehow slot-able.
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