Hero IQ's dropped sharply in GW:EN?

I've completed all of Factions except shiro with hench/hero and most of Nightfall the same way. While I approve of new skills given to Henchmen in GW:EN I really have to ask, are heroes and henchmen bugged? Or are they intended to be completely totally and utterly the most idiotic disgracefuly poor excuse for assistance?

I hear "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" "click" all the time in combat, in travel and when idle from them. HONEST TO GOD, WTF ARE THEY DOING? No its not spellbreaker, its not VoS, or Shadow Form its all the time no matter what, no matter what setting etc its so damn annoying WTF brought on this immediate lapse of intelligence?

Dont bother taking Herta, apart from SS there's no use for wards as heroes always and without failure kite OUTSIDE them.

Forget Mhenlo its lucky if he'll actually use LoD when you're whole team is dying.

I am sick of the incompentence the absolute downright disparity between enemy AI and hero/hench AI. The Charr move in formation, tanks up front, squishies in the back, the Hero/Henchmen run as one single unit, they apper as one green blip on radar. How is easy is it for the enemy to kill them? As easy as deep freeze - maelstorm whole party dropped in under 3 seconds gg.

I just did Shards of Orr with an MM and a Wammo tank who relies on inflicting conditions on flesh creatures, I passed! No huge issues, yes, passed with the wrong builds.

I try again with a daze epidemic ranger, NO mm but instead a smite monk and I get whipped out in under 10 seconds. I never realised blinding eles could totally drop SF eles. Can someone explain why the hero AI chooses to kite into traps, into more enemies and avoid wards? Is it a bug or is it just they are useless?

Im freaking serious the allied AI chooses the WORST response to every situation whereas the enemy AI is semi-competent.

Meteor shower those charr, ooh got one, oohh one ran off ohh the rest got out of it. Meanwhile Cynn and Mhenlo skip around singing merrily in an enemies firestorm while Tahlkora demonstrates the benefits of kiting outside of wards.

Can we PLEASE get the Hero/Henchmen AI looked at? Eles forgetting to use attunement, kiting outside of wards, running into traps, removing blind from a caster before a tank/ranger is just the most annoying thing ever. And the constant "click" "click" "click" of broken spells when there's clearly nothing preventing spells from being completed.

I know Hero/Hench have never been all too bright but it seems since GW:EN they got just that little more incappable and now every so often all I hear is "click" "click" "click" "click" and there's no enemies nearby, no hexes/conds/area effects on the team.

I mean I love GW:EN it's a great expansion and most aspects of it are a real step forwards, even a huge leap forwards, but the AI is sooo incredibly bugged and always chooses the wrong move/skill/position.

And no, replying with "duh play with people" isnt a valid arguement, there is a problem with the AI it needs to be fixed. If the roads were potholed and someone said omg this is crazy, you dont say, duuuhhhh buy a helicopter and fly then. There's a problem and it needs to be addressed, it is spoiling an otherwise outstanding Expansion.

Chuckled at. And then signed.

There is a grand disparity in between the hero/enemy AI's. But at least they try to move out of AoE now. After 3 seconds. But w/e.

Selective attention.

I'm thinking you're just seeing the worst of what they're doing and ignoring the best.

A few bad experiences.


I mean heroes suck at some things, and expecting them to be good at it is ridiculous given the scope of what they have to account for. Other things they happen to do well at though... like Interrupting.
They aren't mind-readers though. They work on comparitively simple programming compared to live players... and you can't force them to work outside that programming.


I imagine you're just having difficulty because the Hero AI hasn't been made to cope with the new smartarse monster skills in Eye of the North.

I think I've only seen the "click click click" by an enemy.

Soooo...can't complain on my side, hehe.

I've noticed a considerable drop in hero/henchie AI in GW:EN. Yeah, I finished it using nothing but heroes and henchies, but there's no question in my mind that it's either dumbed down or bugged. It's simple stuff like eles managing their energy or getting out of an AoE storm or not stand in molten lava, just to name a few of examples. And don't get me started on Vekk tanking even when you have him on guard.

ive had some minor problems with hero ai aswell. my casters never seem to want to cast spells from the edge of enemy aggro circles anymore. now, they LEEROY right up to enemies before casting spells. doh

and my warder always puts up the wrong wards. its just aggravating to see ward of elements up when we run into a group of melee and vice versa. oh wellz.

I don't have much of a problem... but I use Jora as a tank and usually flag everybody else back.

You notice the bad but not the good. The heroes and henchmen presumably win the vast majority of battles. They can't, therefore, be that bad.

I agree about the uselessness of Herta, however. Never bring *storm if you like controlling your aggro.

Herta using Ward Against Elements when fighting 2 warriors. Enough said!

_Zexion

The hero AI is goofed up.Also had problem with eles skills for some reason.Might be a new spell but it is like a ranger loseing a pet.Mine get wiped for a short time and some spells just wont work at times even with enough energy.I try a different spell it will work.Wierd.

Heroes can't "look" at the enemy and "judge" what the best skills to use are.

Herohench don't recognise enemies as individual units with qualities. They certainly can't judge Class by the looks of it. They respond to certain conditions of the environment in very basic ways... then account for additional conditions on skills on top of that.

They can tell which enemy is nearest, but they don't know what it is nor what skill it is using. They can tell which enemy you're targeting and interrupt it if it happens to be casting any spell with more than a half second cast time, but can't tell if the enemy behind it is about to cast meteor shower.

They are very limited in their capabilities.... and they certainly can't account for the bizarre enemies in Eye of the North... nor such bizarre effects as the Norn effect giving extra health and whatnot. Little wonder they have difficulty sometimes.

Well I personally use h&h all the time,

You can control 3 hero so that's you and 3 you can control

If you said hero stupid and use a wrong skill, you can always disable

and control it yourself, If your hench stand in aoe you can always flag them

out, it's all on your skill, they just a computer you need to order them

hero and hench is a part of you, it's not a second person that you should

expect to do it correctly


Well I think At least Hench in Gwen got a lot Better skill

I love Cynn meteo shower xD

I have noticed all the "click, click, click" and damn is that annoying.

Jora gets stuck sometimes, she runs back and forth between me and the enemies when I'm using my ranger. I believe it's because I am shooting the enemy while I am outside of their aggro circle so she doesn't know if she should stay or go.

Mhenlo is now a tank. A monk tank. And I've been getting more and more upset with him as the weekend continued. He would run out in front of every single mob and take the first hit....ALWAYS. Everytime he'd die I'd just mumble that's what happens when monks tank. But I guess I'm the dummy because I kept right on bringing him along.

I finally get up to the Heart of the Shiverpeaks quest and Cyndr the incredibly large wurm that spews fire and hates my necro character with a passion. Anyway, doing this quest, I'm having lots of difficulties moving around and dropping the bombs, trying to put SV on her. I wind up dying while Cyndr is at half health, followed by all the heroes henches except for Olias, Livia and Mhenlo. I'm sure failure is upon me when I see Mhenlo standing right next to Cyndr like he's posing for a picture.

Much to my surprise, Mhenlo stood next to the wurm, taking all the damage, and healing himself, while Livia and Olias layed on the hexes. A few minutes later Cyndr was no more and I was getting the prize box, and I was still DEAD.

Kinda sad to realize that sometimes the heroes and henchies don't even need a live party member to play the game.

i think we got off track.
this isn't about how stupid heroes are in general, that's taken for granted. the topic's title implies that the author thinks that the hero ai got messed up by GW:EN and they got even stupider.

personally, i completely disagree. Yes, they've had their moments, but they always do. now i find that they DO move out of AoE (spirit rift for example), respond to flags quickly enough, and "judge" things as well as they always do.
my eternal problem, one that has been around since the start of heroes, is that when my tank's getting pummeled and dunky rushes forward to save him, the first thing he casts is vigorous spirit =/ useful utility when the tank's fine, not when he's got a second to live.

but again, this has nothing to do with GW:EN...I find no changes from before.

oh, as for more complex monster ai, i believe part of this is becuase the monsters have a set skillbar, and semi-individual pieces of ai code can be written bearing those skills in mind. heroes however can have any 8 skills you choose, so the game has to balance all 8 of those skills at each moment.

I never noticed her using the wrong ward consistently prior to GWEN.

_Zexion

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I agree that hero and hench AI is Very bugged My Zed AKA Donkey Thinks he is A toucher he uses a very simple fire build SF, no close range aoe and uses a Hourglass Staff But every target i ping he runs right up to and than casts which makes no sense cause he is not a frickin toucher i have gotten soo mad at him i dont use him anymore which is sad cause i love my donkey but ANET FIX THE HERO RETARD BUG

i concur but the biggest problem i have run into is my heros going on strike, yea thats right not casting at all..... im sitting there dieing and the rest of my team is dieing i open up tahls and dunks hero bar and guess what not a single spell has been cast -.-..... i agree the ai on heros and henchman have become RETARDED, i wonder if this is a poor attempt at making people group with humans....

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For some reason I often saw Cynn tanks while fighting the Destroyers after I pull the mobs. Jora does the same thing as well. Guess it's their bad temper heh

mhenlo refuses to heal, he likes to tank
cynn likes to cast meteor shower... against a single foe
lina wont cast any protection spells, unless you just got rez
devona likes to chase after a group of enemy... when you are @%^# million miles away

Seems their intelligence varies pending on what chapter they are in. I've noticed in Nightfall they're top notch, but Tyria and Cantha they're pretty bad.

Well one 'improvement' I've noticed is that they are reluctant to do ANY aoe attacks if there is only one enemy. Really makes killing bosses a pain becaues they never use meteor shower, fire storm or anything else.

Plus whtas the point of having wards if the hero's start kiting the second they are hit, thats beyond stupid and frankly just dumb programing.

It's been said before many times, how is it they can make enemy AI that in many cases is better then some humans, and yet they can't make a hero AI that doesn't get itself killed. And I love Zhed he's a great hero when he works, but frankly he's the first to run into battle and has the largest attack radius of any other hero I use.

The biggest problem I'm having is this: I flag them out of my aggro circle, then i pull the mob and let the monsters gather around me, call the nearest target, and then I cancel the flag, so they come to help. This is what I get, either:
A. 3 of them will rush INTO the bubble to cast (Gwen and Vekk seem to have this problem far more than others, although the monk henchmen do it often as well.)
B. Half of them take off running in the wrong direction.
C. The Protection Monk will run up (50% of the time into the aggro bubble) and start protecting the rest of the party, while I take all the damage, and eventually die.
(Almost forgot) D. Lately, the Charr Hero will run up next to me, and not do a single thing, just stands still, while the whole party fights. And its not that hes out of energy, he doesn't even use his bow, just sits there and watches, even after I call targets. Its not until a few mobs have died that he decides to jump in. It's not every fight, but more and more lately.

Honestly, this happens 85% of the the time.

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yeah i think that the hero/hench Ai has dropped as well, i don't know whats going on but it better get fixed soon!

This happened when Nightfall came out or soon after.
Albeit they were introduced with NF so bugs/response of them was to be expected.

Yea I noticed too, time after time I keep yelling at the computer, "What the ___ you running behind the front guys to get to the back guys for??

Acolyte Sousuke. GG throwing up Ward Of Elements ... when there's ONLY a melee guy we need to kill.

What's that Mhenlo, you WANT to run next to 3 wars to heal us?
Nevermind putting Olias on non-combat and have his dumb ass just STAND there next to a melee or 3 while trying to get minions, I keep having to flag him back behind me.

I also noticed they don't go after who I want them to go after.
"NO! We can't go after the monk/priest/spiritcaller that's healing, we must try and try and try to take out this guy and THEN go after the monk. It's our key to victory!!"

With my Ele, the Shards of Orr, no problem. I even went out of my way to kill undead to get chests, because I can bring big damage to take out the priests on my own.
Now on my ranger and their being unresponsive. Make a clean straight line to point A then B and finally C with no side runs to point D, E or F.


But as I said, it's not the first time. There were even updates months after NF that caused stupidness among the Hero/Hench community, it's just more noticeable now because you're dealing with level 20+ in good sized numbers (5+) and because it's your first time running through GWEN, so you don't know what to expect as if it was your 5th time. Certainly not like Proph, Factions or Nightfall knowing "Ok I will meet such and such and need to bring him and her" and blowing through

Menloh is retarded, he can watch your party degenerate to death because he is waiting for deny hex to recharge.
and Lina isnt much better, she havent even given me one singel heal/prot spell.

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Before Gwen bonder hero used mantra of inscriptions and ether sig so she could easily maintain ~11 enchants. Since GWEN heroes do not use either of them anymore. I have to manually use it for her otherwise she runs out of energy but she wouldnt use the f. stance.

well, noticed koss doing more retarded than usual (really, that stupid fungus head wont listen to me), sometimes the henchies are standing outside of my earshot and dont do a THING! just standing STILL. yea, hero/hench are seriously bugged

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Im having a similar problem with pyre when on my warrior. He has a BHA disrupting build on him and a recurve bow, yet he continues to rush up right next to me and shoot the enemy in the face. Or sometimes he will rush up next to me and not do anything, even if im attacking an enemy right next to him.

My favorite part is Vekk (and sometimes Zheds) fascination with running all the way up to the target to begin casting Meteor Shower.

Iv'e yet to notice anyhting different than the same things that happen in NF. Koss still runs 4 miles away chasing something while theres 5 enemies in your face as your trying to cast, Vekk seems to wanna be melee even though the ball on the end of the Ettins club is 4x the size he is, O.o, my necro seems eager to run up and plague touch even though hes set as an MM without the skill. Same things as NF.

What I've noticed is that the monsters seem to be smarter. Many times ive seen them run around all the minions just to kill my monks. They seem to wanna go after the casters first. The more important ones too. Playing thru on my monk first, thats my main, im interested to see how things go when i go thru on my Ele or Ranger. That would honestly be the only way to see exactly how big of a difference there is between the AI factor.

yes make the baddies smart enough to stay in wards and get out of meteor shower, but please by all means make allied AI dumber than stumps. Maybe its a ploy to make PUGs look good again...hahahaha

All I know is that since the first update we had to add GWEN stuff, my heroes are STUPID!!!! and I am feeling a bit schizo at having to play them too while I play my chara. No reason a hero monk with a full bar of energy without aggro on her/him shouldn't be casting on teammates that are dying!!!

thank god its not me ..

1 thing REALLY annoys me .. my main char is warrior, so i flag them off, go tank and unflag them, but the monk seem to stay out of the radius and not heal me!!

i swear monks have become shit

I'll just add I'm having trouble with them too. Tanks run off to chase god knows what while the enemy melee is rips my casters apart.

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They need to implement formations based on class - not to have them simply encircle you.

Organised by AR , high AR henches/hero's in front then mid the squishy's behind you. They wont have the ability to set selectable formations but that would be a nice thing for the future.

My problem is also that hero's / henches wont stay in wards and also wont move out of aoe fast enough. Every tried to that golem mission where you have to follow the ward golem? Talk about broken.