So, in Eye of the North, the dwarves are revealed to be capable of merging themselves in a hive-mind like the Destroyers are. I guess it was necessary in order to fight the Destroyers on the same level. Doing this also turns them into living stone, presumably enhancing their durability and making them really, really hard to kill.
And it seems that most of the remaining Dwarf race underwent the process.
So the questions abound. Is a Stone Dwarf immortal? Did they all die against the Destroyer hordes? Is it really, as Ogden said, the end of the dwarves? Will there be dwarves in GW2, or is their time well and truly over?
Dwarves in GW2 *spoilers*
Verteiron
R!ghteous Ind!gnation
I guess we wait... lol Will be interesting though to say the least.
Verteiron
Actually, the possibility exists that dwarves will still be around. I'd forgotten about the Stone Summit. Since some of them actually -worshipped- the Destroyer, I doubt they'd have undergone the Great Dwarf ritual. So perhaps dwarves will exist, but only as foes. Hard to believe such a xenophobic group as the Stone Summit could survive for more than a hundred years or so, unless dwarves are longer-lived than humans.
Free Runner
My guess is there will be few Dwarves in GW2.I find the outcome of the Dwarves sad in that the Stone Dwarfs have one purpose - hunt Destroyers (i think its mentioned something like Jalis and his troops went deeper hunting every last one in the Cinematic). What we should be asking is what happens when that purpose is complete? do they stay underground or simply die?
The Stone Summit should be gone by GW2. If i recall one of leaders tries to do a Mallyx and take the power of the Great Destroyer (and is foiled by the heros).
Well at least they didnt become Sylvari....
The Stone Summit should be gone by GW2. If i recall one of leaders tries to do a Mallyx and take the power of the Great Destroyer (and is foiled by the heros).
Well at least they didnt become Sylvari....
xshadowwolfx
Thank God they didn't become Sylvari........that would have scared the hell out of me.
Anyways with most of the dwarves population turned into stone and fighting until they die, I believe in GW2 dwarves will only remain in legends and stories. Otherwise they will be forgotten. Much like the seers.
Anyways with most of the dwarves population turned into stone and fighting until they die, I believe in GW2 dwarves will only remain in legends and stories. Otherwise they will be forgotten. Much like the seers.
Onarik Amrak
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Originally Posted by xshadowwolfx
Thank God they didn't become Sylvari........that would have scared the hell out of me.
Anyways with most of the dwarves population turned into stone and fighting until they die, I believe in GW2 dwarves will only remain in legends and stories. Otherwise they will be forgotten. Much like the seers. |
They'll be forgotten. Much like the Forgotten...
Maybe the Stone Summit will still exist, or they'll be facing extinction I guess.
Mournblade
As I understood it, the Destroyer and the Great Dwarf haven't fought yet, so there will be dwarves around in GW2. Of the dwarves that were blessed and became stone, they will fight until they are dead, so they may not be around for GW2, but i'm sure their kin will be.
Azael Durge
In many games and books its said that Dwarves live for at least two hundred years, although that might be stunted by wars and over drinking.
Eldin
Thank goodness they weren't Sylvari'd. I was thinking about that line that the Dwarves would be forever changed.
Dwarf = Sylvari = sex change = no no.
I would be scarred for life if that happened. This outcome isn't that great either though.
Hopefully some dwarves remain, as all true fantasy MMORPGs have them!
Dwarf = Sylvari = sex change = no no.
I would be scarred for life if that happened. This outcome isn't that great either though.
Hopefully some dwarves remain, as all true fantasy MMORPGs have them!
Onarik Amrak
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Originally Posted by Mournblade
As I understood it, the Destroyer and the Great Dwarf haven't fought yet, so there will be dwarves around in GW2. Of the dwarves that were blessed and became stone, they will fight until they are dead, so they may not be around for GW2, but i'm sure their kin will be.
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Jalis says the transformed Dwarves are all the Great Dwarf now...
They fought the Destroyers but in the end it was the Heroes who killed the 'Great Destroyer'.
Unless of course that wasn't the Great Destroyer, and that big statue is actually the real Great Destroyer...
Mournblade
Considering the statue's eye opened during the cutscene, and during the storyline they hinted at a 'general' who was controlling the Destroyers... and the clincher was that there was no Great Dwarf vs. Great Destroyer on pay-per-view. =)
Icy DS
Has anyone seen any dwarven porn? I'm sure it is similar to midget porn...
Mournblade
Congrats Icy! You win "Retarded Post Of The Day"!
Onarik Amrak
I'm sure he's in the running for Most Retarded Post of the Week as well.
serpant queen
ok in my thery we never killd the gr8 distroyer but a lesser version of it
remember the stone dragon that wakes up in the cinamatic after we kill " the gr8 distroyer" or not so gr8
wich means the dwafs shud still b alive and kiking in gw2
remember the stone dragon that wakes up in the cinamatic after we kill " the gr8 distroyer" or not so gr8
wich means the dwafs shud still b alive and kiking in gw2
Zallya
Actually, I think we DID kill the Great Destroyer, but this is the Door of Komalie all over again - What happened before EotN? Earthquakes, making the depths which the asura have already colonised with their gates accessible. What then happened? Destroyers started appearing in those depths and just outside the entrances, and they chased the Asura out of their home, and defended it from us. Why? To protect the Great Destroyer, the only thing stopping that Dragon from awakening. So basically, as I said - It's the Door of Komalie all over again, except this time rather than being intentionally lead into the trap of unsealing the dragon (like we did the titans), we were instead dragged along by an old Dwarven legend, and the apparent threat of these destroyers. Although, I can't remember being attacked by destroyers once, that wasn't in the depths, or near the entrance to said depths (Except on the assault against the Charr, but there I believe those destroyers were captured and caged). They, like the Mursaat, were just defending us from a greater threat through the only means they have - force.
Free Runner
The Destroyers started moving through the depths to purge it of all life - how is that defending something?. The Asura had been, from the sound of it, using that Central Transfer Chamber for years without problem before the Destroyers emerged.
The quest before "A Gate Too Far" has Destroyers running at your party on the surface from across the lake. Of course you are near the entrance to the dungeon but they come from a completely different way.
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| Although, I can't remember being attacked by destroyers once, that wasn't in the depths, or near the entrance to said depths |
Zallya
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
The Destroyers started moving through the depths to purge it of all life - how is that defending something?. The Asura had been, from the sound of it, using that Central Transfer Chamber for years without problem before the Destroyers emerged.
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As for the Asura, who knows what they were up to before the Destroyers appeared and chased them out? Gadd is a prime example of how far some Asura are willing to take things for the sake of their experiments.
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Originally Posted by Free Runner
The quest before "A Gate Too Far" has Destroyers running at your party on the surface from across the lake. Of course you are near the entrance to the dungeon but they come from a completely different way.
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In any case, what is clear is that the existence of "The Great Destroyer" that we killed was keeping that Dragon sealed.
Free Runner
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Well, it's defending something the only way a hivemind creature with a linear objective (prevent the dragon from awakening) can - force. If there's life, it's a potential threat to the dragons awakening, and must be exterminated. As for the Asura, who knows what they were up to before the Destroyers appeared and chased them out? Gadd is a prime example of how far some Asura are willing to take things for the sake of their experiments. |
Also with this theory we are throwing away the whole prophecie of The Great Dwarf vs The Great Destroyer - even the Flameseeker Prophecies became true.
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| That however, I did miss. |
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| In any case, what is clear is that the existence of "The Great Destroyer" that we killed was keeping that Dragon sealed. |
Also note the thing does not immediatly wake up after the Destroyer is gone - it could be hundreds of years until it wakes up, perhaps even near the start of GW2.
Gah so many questions left unanswered with that ending.
Sophitia Leafblade
IT wouldnt suprise me at all if the dragon thingwas the real destroyer, with its godlike powers (making it the counterpart of the great dwarf) and the defeat of the general it put back the destroyers plans by say around 200 years but its plan suceeded enough to begin to restore it from its eternal stone prison (since both the destroyers and dwarfs seem to now be rocked based lifeforms) The one thing i didnt understand with the end of eotn is why didnt all the dwarves get turned into Rock forms, from what i saw only the King and his men present in the chamber were actually transformed, the others remained "normal". Since dwarves already had a much longer life span than humans its highly likely these stone dwarves will still be around in Gw2 although presumably fewer in number to fight the destroyer
Free Runner
From the looks of things the Dwarves are going to be near extinction in GW2. Also the dragon Primordus is set back due to The Great Destroyers defeat. In the future we may see the Stone Dwarves returning to hunt down Primordus.
Mordakai
SPOILER ALERT
according to PcGamer's Ultimate Guild Wars Guide, the Dredge take over the old Dwarf area and fight the Norn.
I'm planning on starting a whole thread to discuss the Ultimate Guide's GW2 spoilers.
according to PcGamer's Ultimate Guild Wars Guide, the Dredge take over the old Dwarf area and fight the Norn.
I'm planning on starting a whole thread to discuss the Ultimate Guide's GW2 spoilers.
Metal Herc
I really didn't dig the whole transformation. So this is uspposed to be the final battle, some huge confrontation. The dwarves sacrifice themselves in this ritual and in the end, a party of 8 kill a very easy great destroyer.
I don't think enough was really explained about the Great Destroyer and The Great Dwarf in EOTN which leads me to believe that is what GW2 will be about. That or it was just a very anticlimactic ending..
I will have to pick up that Ultimate Guild Wars Guide... I am very confused/somewhat dissapointed after the ending of GW:EN.
I don't think enough was really explained about the Great Destroyer and The Great Dwarf in EOTN which leads me to believe that is what GW2 will be about. That or it was just a very anticlimactic ending..
I will have to pick up that Ultimate Guild Wars Guide... I am very confused/somewhat dissapointed after the ending of GW:EN.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade
IT wouldnt suprise me at all if the dragon thingwas the real destroyer, with its godlike powers (making it the counterpart of the great dwarf) and the defeat of the general it put back the destroyers plans by say around 200 years but its plan suceeded enough to begin to restore it from its eternal stone prison (since both the destroyers and dwarfs seem to now be rocked based lifeforms) The one thing i didnt understand with the end of eotn is why didnt all the dwarves get turned into Rock forms, from what i saw only the King and his men present in the chamber were actually transformed, the others remained "normal". Since dwarves already had a much longer life span than humans its highly likely these stone dwarves will still be around in Gw2 although presumably fewer in number to fight the destroyer
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Guildmaster Cain
Aye, this is explained by Ogden after the transformation cutscene, who chooses to participate in the transformation at a later stage of his life. This is because, as explained by him, the state of their mind also changes when they transform.
I agree that the Great Destroyer was very anticlimactic, not really worth being worried about all these years. Can you imagine the dwarves actually saw this being as the ultimate adversary? Not to mention the whole Great Dwarf got flushed down the drain. Apparently there is no Great Dwarf, only his weapons, the Stone Dwarves.
Sylvarians are probably totally seperate from dwarves. Somehow I expected that they would surface at the end of GWEN, but they didnt... Though there is a strange 'Tree of Life' in the new part of Maguuma Jungle, a tree planted by the peaceful centaur Ventari.
I agree that the Great Destroyer was very anticlimactic, not really worth being worried about all these years. Can you imagine the dwarves actually saw this being as the ultimate adversary? Not to mention the whole Great Dwarf got flushed down the drain. Apparently there is no Great Dwarf, only his weapons, the Stone Dwarves.
Sylvarians are probably totally seperate from dwarves. Somehow I expected that they would surface at the end of GWEN, but they didnt... Though there is a strange 'Tree of Life' in the new part of Maguuma Jungle, a tree planted by the peaceful centaur Ventari.
Free Runner
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Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
I agree that the Great Destroyer was very anticlimactic, not really worth being worried about all these years. Can you imagine the dwarves actually saw this being as the ultimate adversary? Not to mention the whole Great Dwarf got flushed down the drain. Apparently there is no Great Dwarf, only his weapons, the Stone Dwarves.
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Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
Sylvarians are probably totally seperate from dwarves. Somehow I expected that they would surface at the end of GWEN, but they didnt... Though there is a strange 'Tree of Life' in the new part of Maguuma Jungle, a tree planted by the peaceful centaur Ventari.
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strcpy
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Originally Posted by Metal Herc
I really didn't dig the whole transformation. So this is uspposed to be the final battle, some huge confrontation. The dwarves sacrifice themselves in this ritual and in the end, a party of 8 kill a very easy great destroyer.
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I generally also assume that things are happening off scene - that if the Dwarfs had *not* undergone the transformation then we most likely would have failed. The fact that we killed Abbadon makes less sense than backed up by thousands of transformed warriors we beat a mortal being. Heck there were bosses in Nightfall that were more likely to give a party wipe than Abbadon even if they didn't take as long to kill.
But that is what is going to happen if you want a story in a game you actually have a chance to win. It's even nearly impossible to create a truly believable similar type of story in written works where you even have complete control over the characters.
There are times reading people complain about this stuff that I *really* wish they would be allowed to write the story and then see the forums pick it apart. There would be some real wounded prides out there. It's easy to say "Make it really tough to beat and yet have most be able to beat it" and another thing to actually do so. But, of course, most will think they could actually do it and will generally be indignant that this is said.
draxynnic
We had help for Abaddon as well - he'd only just started to break free of his bonds. Considering that he couldn't even be targetted when he wasn't bound, I think it's safe to say that if we'd have had absolutely no chance against him before he was imprisoned.
Basically, we delivered the killing blow against a pale shadow of his former self. If we hadn't showed up, yes, he would have continued growing in power... but it is worth noting even then he never expected to actually escape his prison, but instead to pull the world into it.
Basically, we delivered the killing blow against a pale shadow of his former self. If we hadn't showed up, yes, he would have continued growing in power... but it is worth noting even then he never expected to actually escape his prison, but instead to pull the world into it.
Aubis
I think the Dwarves were living weapons when the great destory was making trouble long ago The Great Dwarf with his army of living weapon crafted in his own likeist fought the destroyers after the battle he made his weapons flesh and blood tilt the destroyer return.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Aubis
I think the Dwarves were living weapons when the great destory was making trouble long ago The Great Dwarf with his army of living weapon crafted in his own likeist fought the destroyers after the battle he made his weapons flesh and blood tilt the destroyer return.
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Mordakai
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Originally Posted by draxynnic
Makes sense, since flesh-and-blood Dwarves can reproduce and (apparently) the stone dwarves can't. The dwarves really should have thought about that before they got carried away and all turned to stone... but maybe there's a ritual somewhere that might actually turn them back.
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The fact that the Asura have become the new crafters of Tyria pretty much puts the nail in the coffin.
The Shelf
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
I think Anet wants the Dwarves out of their mythos.
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Personally, I think ANet's move on the dwarves was a stroke of genius. In most fantasies, elves are the wise elusive creatures that provide players with a lot of help. ANet totally reversed that by making dwarves fill that role for GW2. At least, I'm hoping that ANet will make dwarves fill that role in GW2. They'd be silly not to.
Azrael Apollyon
Yep, I think ANet are just trying to move away from the Dwarf stereotype.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by The Shelf
I don't think ANet wants to boot Dwarves entirely. If that were the case, they wouldn't be in GW2 at all. I think they're just trying to make them more interesting. They were pretty boring even before the Asurans, Norn, Charr, and Sylvari became prominent. Now when you meet a dwarf in GW2, it will actually be special since they will be an endangered species. Not only that, but being living statues make them more interesting too. It suits the whole dwarf theme, but at the same time it helps set Guild Wars dwarves apart from all the rest.
Personally, I think ANet's move on the dwarves was a stroke of genius. In most fantasies, elves are the wise elusive creatures that provide players with a lot of help. ANet totally reversed that by making dwarves fill that role for GW2. At least, I'm hoping that ANet will make dwarves fill that role in GW2. They'd be silly not to. |
Keep Stone Dwarves, and keep them rare, IMO.
dsnesnintendo
why doesn't the great dwarf save them
or kormir save elone
or
the titans save the cha-...ow nm
or kormir save elone
or
the titans save the cha-...ow nm
The Shelf
I don't know if this has been brought up before, but I'm pretty sure no one knows who the Great Dwarf really is, right? Is it possible that Droknar is the Great Dwarf? I kinda got that impression since he appears in ghost form at the end of GW:EN. I don't really know Droknar's history, so please tell me if this idea is totally off-base.
Free Runner
Droknar was one of the greatest Dwarven Kings when the Deldrimor banners were united (resulting in the forge he resided in to become named Droknars Forge).
Also the statue of him in Droknars is exactly the same as the one in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks though this could just be them reusing the statue. He does seem to be pretty important amongst the Dwarves.
However the Dwarven legends say that the Great Dwarf lived in his forge now known as Anvil Rock, but Droknar was known to have lived as a King in the forge we now know as Droknars Forge. And the Great Dwarf was around in the early days of the Dwarves whereas Droknar is implied to have came much later on.
Also the statue of him in Droknars is exactly the same as the one in the Heart of the Shiverpeaks though this could just be them reusing the statue. He does seem to be pretty important amongst the Dwarves.
However the Dwarven legends say that the Great Dwarf lived in his forge now known as Anvil Rock, but Droknar was known to have lived as a King in the forge we now know as Droknars Forge. And the Great Dwarf was around in the early days of the Dwarves whereas Droknar is implied to have came much later on.
Giga Strike
according to the guildwars issue of PC gamer, all of the dwarves who were not turned into stone will die out leaving a couple stone dwarves across the shiverpeaks.
draxynnic
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
I doubt it. I think Anet wants the Dwarves out of their mythos. After all, they seem pretty boring when compared to the Norn, Charr, Asura and Sylvari.
The fact that the Asura have become the new crafters of Tyria pretty much puts the nail in the coffin. |
But it would be an interesting lore point if it turned out that they were originally created as stone in the initial battle against the Great Destroyer, and then got turned to flesh and blood so they could reproduce and build up numbers until the Great Destroyer arose again in EotN.