HA/GvG Noob Trainers Suggestion!

Ok, Anet really needs to encourage the experienced pvpers to teach the new/unexperienced players how to play. Its so hard and stressful for the new guy to get up their in ha rank. Usually they get to r3+ by doing iway or some other noob build because none of the other groups will let them in. The new players also dont know the ha or gvg builds either and pretty much they can't even get in any good guilds because they dont have the titles for it (which they can't get unless they iway to r6...)

So here is what I suggest to encourage people to share their pvp knowledge


Create a teacher rank for guilds. The guild leader and officers can choose people or theirselves to be teachers. Teachers will be assigned to new guild members and they will be responsible for teaching them how to play and help them get their ranks up through doing HA with the guild and also GvG. Teachers can only teach students who are 3 ranks below them in HA or 1 rank below them in gvg ranks (or something around there).

Benefits from teaching new players (the good part for the teachers )

For each gvg/ha rank the student gains, the guild recieves money that can be spent on their guild hall (or some other guild related thing).

There will be a title track for teachers named something like this "Teacher of Noobs". Each time one of their students gains fame or champion points from gvg, there title goes up a certain amount. Each new rank increases their max balthazar faction.

Teachers will also be rewarded for each HA/GvG rank that their students gained. This reward could be something like faction, pvp weapon and armor skins, gold, and other things.


So what do u guys think? I've been playing this game for 27 months and only have r4 cause i can't get into any groups or it just takes forever to find a group for my rank. Please dont say "create your own noob group" or "play iway noob".

Something similar to this was mentioned 1 1/2 years ago. It was shot down, for obvious reasons.



When I was unranked I made my own groups. Why can't you?

ok no one taught or helped those of us who have the rank/GVG expierence that youre suggesting that they train people for. We earned it ourselves. How hard is it for newer players to do the same?

Lol lol just Lol. Quite alot of Negitive Feedback on that there.

First off I dont Agree with half of your Ideas but the main Concept of Having some way for Brand Spankin new people to Get into GvG/Ha by having a system inplace that can Teach them.

And what the Second or Third Guy said

"well We all learned by ourselves too so why cant you or w.e"

What I have to say to Answers like that Well.

Back in the Day EVERYONE Was a NOOB There Was NO Allrdy Set and Organized GvG and HA Builds NO One was BETTER then Anyone Else. EVERYONE was on the Same Playing Feild. So therefore As Everyone Played on the Same Playing Feild Builds/Tatics watever were Developed and Used. And THEN you Could Say there was People Better or Higher Up there. BUT Even at that Point the Majority of the People Who WERE Not Higher Up there Allrdy Had Easyer and Better Chances of "Getting Up there" But as All this Happened Fewer and Fewer People You could say where Noobs. And If we Jump Right up to Now Wev got a HUGE Majority of People That are those Ranked 7-12's and Those That are Not even Rank 1.

So to Say something Like "Learn to Play or Make your own Dam Group" and Not Teach Brank Spankin New people How to Play these PvP Modes Well thats just RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOin Stuipd.

So if thats How it would Be then. I guess We could Imagion here a Big ass Grass Feild. On One Side we have a Group of 4 and on the Other Side we have a Group 4 And Each Person is givin say some Sort of Sniper Riffle. Now the One Group Of 4 Has Years of Exped Military Trained etc etc In using Sniper Rifles and the Other Group of 4 are Random People Picked up off the Street with No Gun Knowledge What so ever. These 2 "Teams" Fight to the Death..... Who do you Think is Going to Win? Exped Marksmen? or Random Brand Spakin Newbes to the Art of Marksmenship..... I dident Think so Either.


SO you might ask WtF does this have to do with guildswars HA/GVG well if you Dam well Think about it for a moment It has Much Relevents. If you Throw noobs into a group of 8 and pit them against another group of 8 that are Ranked 6+ Who the Hell is Going to Win? there you go.

SO REALLY Its almost Impossible to "Learn Yourself" or "Make a Group with Non Ranked Players" with No Exp in that PvP Mode at All.


SURE You can Watch Hours and Hours of Pro's Battle Videos or Look up the Commonly Used Top PvP HA/GVG Builds But then again That Doesent Really Give you Exps Does it?

SO Once again Its Very Hard to the Point where it is Impossible to DO these Modes Without any Exps or Training or Watever the Hell you Want to Call it. With the Majority of People Allrdy "Exped and Watnot" Well there you Go.

Lol see this is the comments that i hate getting. I mean WTH! You want guild wars to continue growing, right? You want the popularity of pvp to expand, right? Or maybe you guys just love owning r2 iway noobs and want to keep it that way? We don't need the... "I busted my butt of getting my rank up so all the new players need to do the same or quit" attitude.

I mean cmon. First its only to encourage people to help new players. If you don't wanna help, no problem. It would only make the game more enjoyable for everyone else. You didn't see many pve people complaining about green weapon and inscribable weapons in nightfall. Some people farmed for hours to get their perfect sword or whatever but we didn't see a huge list of people complaining about how easy it is to get perfect weapons now. This idea is to improve the game. We shouldn't support the qualities of the game that make it worse...

I think I was on the mmorpg.com forums and people were talking about which games are good for what qualities. People mostly said that GW was the best (subscription) free mmorpg out there, although one person complained about GW saying that they treat noobs poorly. And I'm starting to think that he's right. It seems like a lot of people don't even pay attention to noobs or they just don't want them to be any competition in pvp. I was trying to look for a guild an HA and said something like "looking for a ha/gvg guild, rank 4, been playing for 27 months" and this one random guy replies. "Only rank 4, lol you must suck if you're only r4 and have been playing for 27 months..." Cmon there has to be some people who care about the new players and want this game to grow.

But ya i just spit out ideas to help noobs up there :P BTW it was fun in the beginning for HA, we could just take out random skills and throw them into some sort of build heheh, but that fun seems to be gone now cause i can't find groups lol


Old memories :P

So you Sorta Agree with me hahaha YAY. Unless im Reading it Wrong.

Lol Nice Pic. Thats old tho anit REAL old

Ya heheh i agree with u. Even if u read the text in this "somewhat old" picture people don't really know what they are doing at this time. "Is that obelisk ours?" lol. And the party window isn't even organized, but we have 3 monks, 2 wammos, 2 eles, 1 minion master, we didn't need these specific builds as we do now.

But seriously, what do u guys think about a system that will give the new guys more exp in pvp. It doesn't have to be the system i posted, thats just an example

I'd like to see something put in place, even if it's only player organized and not official from A-Net.

I'm currently struggling to break into HA. My guild isn't very interested in HA. They go about once a month and I go with them when I can. I made it to Rank 1 this way. I loved it and would love to go more often if I could just find groups.

I tried joining a pug once and that was a disaster. The leader was very unorganized. He took any random person in town that invited and the skill bars were total crap. I was the only person that even brought an elite. Needless to say, the Zaishen owned us.

I was going to sign up for a fame farming service just to get some experience in HA, but I didn't see any being offered anymore. I don't feel comfortable asking an R3+ group to let me in like a sticky I read here earlier suggested. I know I'm not good enough for that yet. I truly am a PvP noob. I will mess up. I need to learn before trying to convince ranked players that I'm good enough to join them. I suppose I'll go back to pug hunting, but that's tedious.

Many of you have said to just tough it out and work your way up like you did. That's just not possible nowadays. A year or 2 ago, everyone was new. It was much easier to find groups then.

Apprentice, you said to start your own group. I suppose that's a possibility, but I'm not much of a group leader. I don't feel that I have any business trying to lead an HA group yet. I think a leader should be able to assign each member their skillbars and explain how to use them properly. A leader should be able to call targets effectively and I know I'm not at that level.


Lacking all that, if there are 7 other people out here willing to form a team and make fools of ourselves while learning, count me in!

@TheRaven: You seem to be inexperienced in PvP in general, in which case I'd suggest arenas, etc, since HA is that much harder when you lack the basics.

Also, not everyone who managed to get ranked started when the game was new, so please stop bringing that up.

Ya Ravan You seem Inexped but Thats ok we all Learn And we Go but its Harder now adays. And Ya Start With Arenas and Even Zashien lol. I got there just for a quick Faction Farm but Testing a Few Team Builds is good their. Dont even Bother with RA anymore Go stirght to TA or Some AB or w.e



And Yes Its "Worth" Bringing up Lots And Lots and More Lots.

Even at our 1 Year point your Odds of Acutlly Learning yourself and Doing things etc etc with Random Pugs etc etc Were Still at a 50 50 % chance of Odds or w.e you want to call it. Up at our Current Time Frame Those Odds Have Dropped to the Point where its Below 10%. Speaking in Terms of Probability and Possibiliy its Possible That you Can Learn on your Own and that Not everyone whos Rank 6+ today started from the Beigning. But you have to take into consideration what I just said a Sentence Ago.


But yes Your more Probable to Lose today and Not Learn anything Without Pre Exp in the Area.

I'd like to see the PvP community start welcoming new people in but sadly they only see new people as crops for farming rank, rather than potential good competition.

So don't count on anything player done EVER, people aren't going to do it.

On the uphand, GWEN is using alot of PvP tactics on the mobs, in particular the Charr. Not very advanced but it does teach the importance of enchant stripping, pre-protting. That's the first step at least.

Although even still when u are starting to get how to play ha and pvp, your chances of finding or creating a decent group are low because you won't be able to get your rank up there for a long time (cause you cant get into any groups). IMO you don't learn anything in the noob groups at all. You play iway or heroway, not much there. If you are gonna learn some skills, you will have to play in a group with the good people. It's easy to find out what you are doing wrong if you are in a group with experienced people, cause the mistake would mess up the team, or the team will tell you. Being in the unexperienced groups doesn't help too much because chances are everyone is screwing up or doesn't know what they are doing fighting against the other team.

BTW the only real way people get to like r3-6 is by doing some noob iway or heroway. Cmon you see people saying "r3+ iway lf more". And then when those iway people get to r6 when they finally can join the good groups that don't do... they won't have a clue what to do because they have 0 exp.

We need to make pvp better for EVERYONE.

I agree. People say we earned it you can too we had no help. I know what it is like to earn something and it feels bad to make something easyer for someone when you worked so hard to get so I do see that side. On the same book, when most of these r6+ people started HA was a place normal everyday players could go with a somewhat organized guild group or something and maybe not take halls and hold it but at least go in and spend a few hours of having fun.

Now you go in there to find a group as a inexperienced HA player and you wait for a few and see someone setting up an unranked group. Awsome, you join the group set the build, get on vent, and wait. And wait. And wait. For everyone to get on the vent, get coordinated, make some sort of game plan, set up builds. So finally you are all set up good to go. Enter battle, what happens...your team gets ran through by some r6+ group and you return to HA where half the team rage quits. So you wait some more. Team play is fun, setting builds and tweaking is fun but not when you don't stand a chance 3/4 of the time.

I am not going to sit here and contemplate solutions and fixes because there will never be a scratch free fix. But what I am saying is as of right now it is hard for a large numbers of players to get in and have fun with the current system and it's current status. It needs to be made more avalible to everyday players.

You have Points their. Im currently Rank 6 1/4

but It was done Way Back. And Even then It was not really hard to do. But I dont have a Problem with Showing Guildies or just Friends iv Met randomly How to do Things or how the Game Should be played Basicly. Even Iv been Helped in some Areas PvE Wise but I dont see how thats giving any Sort of Advantedge or Edge To new People Becuase we had to "figure" out most things our selves. Witch like 50% of the time we dident. But Then again You have some and you dont.

But Somehow I think ALL PvP Aspects Should be Easy to Pick up and Fast to Learn becuase thats what Guildwars is based upon, Great PvP thats Actully rewarding and Fun to do with Friends or Whomever.

How about a bonus to faction and HP for experienced people if they have new people in the group and can win 2-3 pvp matches? That might encourage experienced players to bring in new people to their groups. They've have more of a risk, but more reward as well.

This is a sad and disappointing attitude from such an ostensibly "great community." If Newton, Avogadro, or Joule had that sort of thinking, who knows how crippled scientific advancement would have been? "I theorized the law of universal gravitation on my own, why should I pass this knowledge on?"

It's too bad for the newbies that ANet decided to tie PvP an d PvE together. Otherwise, we'd be able to just leave PvP to the elitists who value epeen over the opportunity to actually have a positive effect on another person (A good teacher is hard to find, and infinitely rewarded even if they're never paid).

I'll just stick to grinding out my 2K/day in the Zaishen Challenge, then, to get my hero skills, but I hope everyone remembers this attitude when the same people complain about the marginalization of the PvP aspect of GW.

Actually you're quite wrong. Most of the big names are so into their research that they couldn't be bothered to train students from the start. A better comparison would be to ask how often would Einstein go and teach elementary students about his theories of physics. At best, he'd give talks to graduate students and work with fellow scientists. It's similar to how a r12 would occasionally help a r6 here and there, and mostly play with r9+. He would rarely go down to the r0 or r3 level and teach the basics there.

With that analogy, the r6 should be the ones teaching r0 and r3, then the r9's would help the r6's develop (the latter already happens to some extent).

Too many noobs are whining about how no one is willing to teach them. It's just like if some 3rd grader whined about how Einstein refuses to teach him special relativity when he doesn't even know mechanics.

So before pulling out big names, go back to school and study your facts.

Before nitpicking on minor points and ignoring the entire message, you might want to check your own facts. Avogadro became a High School teacher. All of them shared their work in some way.

The simple fact remains that the elitist attitude (comparing r12s to einstien and those who have never PvPed in this game to 3rd graders, for example...) does not do the GW PvP comminuty any credit. It gives credence to the claim that newcomers are treated poorly. There is a world of difference between stating 'I don't want to take my time to teach newcomers' and proclaiming 'I learned alone, so NO ONE should teach newcomers.' (Feel free to substitude the words 'nubs', 'lamers', or whatever, as you see necessary for translation.) The former could be apathy, lack of time, or general selfishness, but the latter is pure elitism and self-importance.

Einstein was well known for teaching his theories at Princeton in his later years, and Stephen Hawking speaks regularly, sharing his theories with everyone through conferences, interviews, and publications(A Brief History of Time, ftw). Great minds know how to get their views across in simple terms.

I think sports is more applicable here, however. If you are a rookie on a team, they will have a veteran be your mentor. He will show you the ins and outs of the game, and, for example, in football, let you in on the difference between college and pro. The team does this because they know the time invested in orienting that player will make them better as a team.

Thing is, gaming culture, as with everything else today, isn't filled, for the most part, with altruistic people willing to help their fellow player. Most are c0ckbites who say stuff like, "I had to learn on my own. fvck him." Which is bullshit. Most people, when the game started, got where they are through help of a guild or fellow players. If you are lucky enough to get into a good guild, fine. They are few and far between, though.

Just remember: things might have been different if people were as much of an asshole to in the beginning as you are now.

lol, little off topic but i agree with how r6 teach r3 and down, r9 teach r6.

Heres two definitions and a story:
Newb - new player, but is willing to learn
Noob - terrible, arrogant, ignorant player who refuses to learn

About 12 months ago, I was a Newb Monk. I spammed Orison and Breeze for heals. It worked for me in PvE and Monks are always wanted there so I thought it must work anywhere else also. After completing PvE, I decided to move on to PvP. Doing Ra, Orison and Breeze worked for me there also so I thought PvP is really easy. I couldn't understand what all the hype about Ha and Rank was all about if PvP was so easy so I decided to go there myself and take a look. I joined an Unranked Randomway Pug. We were lucky enough to kill the Zaishen with 2 Morale Boost but once we got to the Underworld, we were rolled over in less than 45 seconds. The group finally disformed after a few more losses.

Now at this point, I could've whined and whined and given up Ha convincing myself that rank didn't mean anything. But I didn't.

I studied what builds other people were running. The popular builds and what skills they are running. Got to know the layout for each of the maps and the objectives for winning. Visited official fan site PvP sections and forums. Read articles by high ranked players to gain insight on this game type. Opened Observer mode and watch top rated Heroes' Ascent and Hall of Heroes battles and watch particular players. Noted what skills they were using and watched how they responded to any given situation. Asked in Observer Mode for Attributes and Skills for certain builds. Watched the public chat. If I saw someone going "Mo/Me Rc Prot LFG" I asked him/her about his/her build (attributes, skills etc.)

I wasn't ranked yet so I still had to join groups below Rank 3. But this time, I made sure they had a solid team build and voice communication such as Teamspeak or Ventrilo. I rolled a popular build and join a group that did not require rank. When I won a few rounds, I added the leader of that group to my Friends List and next time I went into HA, I would send a whisper to that person and ask if he/she is forming a group. I also added other players who wanted Fame as much as I did and asked them if I could join their group later. By building my Friends List with solid contacts and maintaining a solid Friends List I had a much easier time joining successful groups and gaining Fame. I kept up with the Heroes' Ascent meta game. I was always prepared by having popular builds ready to go when I looked for a group.

I'm Rank 6 now and still going higher. However, I never forgot how hard it was for me. I used to help people that I came across but eventually stopped because of the attitude I was given back. Most of the time when I whispered someone to give helpful advice and criticism on their build, I was greeted back with a "stfu noob i pwn u 1v1." After too much of this, I decided that if they asked for help I would, but I'm not going out of my way to see if you want my help or not.

Point of story: There is no need for Rankers to go out of their way to help Newbs. Newbs will teach themselves or they will ask questions when they need help. Noobs stay silent and don't ask any questions. Noobs whine that theres no help and things are too hard and that everyone is an Elitist snob. Noobs think that having a Ranker letting them into their Ranked group is the only way of helping them. Newbs understand that receiving help isn't bad, but not doing anything on their own is.
The reason why Rankers don't randomly help everyone they come across is because they can't tell if the person behind a bad build is a Newb or a Noob and whether or not their advice will be listened to or not. Newbs approach Rankers with questions. It's not just all Elitist Pro's. There are nice people who will respond if asked politely. If answering a Newb's question is easy enough, they would do it. Noobs continue to whine that there is no help until they will be let into a Ranked group.
Rankers don't need to sort through the masses for Newbs and Noobs to give help. The Newbs will go to them to ask for it. While the Noobs endlessly whine.

Also I should point out:
Running builds like Iway still help more than just standing around outside Ha whining about how no ranked groups would take you in. By going against better builds and being on the receiving end, you still learn more than you would if you did nothing at all.

I appreciate your frustration with 'noobs'. The same sort of players exist on the PvE side of things. But you say you're willing to answer questions, which apparently makes you a rarity in my limited experience, unless your answers to said questions are limited to 'Lrn2ply QQ noob'.

Experienced players have no obligation to teach new players. It's perfectly reasonable to expect someone new to teach themselves, learn from their own mistakes and to make new connections. They have all they need to do that - obs mode, guides and discussions here in the PvP section, Wiki, party search.

Before you call me an "elitist" for saying that, I do help people out when I can. If I see someone asking for help with builds or equipment, I ping them what they need. If I'm in a decent group and we need one more person, I usually whisper a decent low-rank person on my friends list and get them to come (this is where making connections comes in). And I used to pug in low-ranked groups when I have nothing else to do.

However, don't expect me or others to hold a new player's hand all the way. Like I said, they already have everything they need to get better at PvP. Take initiative, you won't get far in PvP without doing that.

Actually you are wrong. It's the college science professors at big universities more likely not to speak to students and would rather let a grad student or TA teach the class because they are too busy doing research and many have to have to get published every so often to keep their jobs. Not all like that thankfully, but there are some places where that sort of thing happens.



BTW, this idea could be tweaked somewhat to help people learn PvP as well if Anet doesn't want to add some areas to the battle islands.


AC1 is right in that if you want to be a good PvPer, you have to go out and learn it yourself, however I think there needs to be an ingame component to learning the class as well just to get people started in the right direction if nothing else. IE a place were you can learn the concepts without having to piss off your team.

Yeah, but you don't see him teaching kindergarten children. Similarly, we share our knowledge too, just that it's physically impossible to help EVERY SINGLE NOOB.

I, as well as most high ranked players, are willing to help out some lower ranked (sometimes r6, even r3) who at least show some promise and aren't completely clueless. What we don't do is babysit a r0 who is arrogant and won't listen to you. After having done so before, I would never consider doing it again because why waste my time teaching a r0 that's not even going to listen to me 90% of the time?

Before people start QQing about how high ranked people are elitist and don't help others, you should reflect on your fellow r0'ers and how they behave. I've gone into r0 groups to help them make builds, but they simply don't appreciate it.

And to be honest, some people just plain suck no matter how much you hold their hand. I've seen people that still play horribly despite constantly being around great players. I wouldn't consider myself a "bad" player, but I'm definitely not as talented or knowledgeable as some of the players in the top guilds.

First off we are WAY off Topic. All we are doing now is Saying that Newbes or w.e Should not be helped and That is not what this post is even About. Its Idea s and Suuggestions for a System that could be in placed that Better Teaches Newbes so they can have some Basic Knowledge of GvG/HA




And Second...... WTH would a R9 Teach a R6 for? First off If your allrdy R6 You Know All to Most of the Builds How they are Played and How they Work. A R9 is the Exact Same. THERES NOTHING More that Can be Tought to one another. Unless some Brand New Pwnage Team Build Comes out. The ONLy Diffrence is that the R9 has obouisly Played More Got some More Fame and has a higher Number then the Rank 6 or what ever the Number Case may be. Even So Ranks Dont Nessasarly Make a Diffrence. a Rank 2 Could have Just as much or more Exp In the HA Area then say a Rank 9 or 10. Ranks Show Wins Basicly Knowledge and Tatics of Builds Etc Show Exp. So I dont know who the Hell came up with the Idea that R9 has Far Greater Knowlege then a R6 and Should be Teaching them and Onward LOL. Dumbest thing iv ever heard.

No one said anything about 'obligation' at all. This is simply about incentive, giving the more experienced players a REASON to help out less experienced players. No one would be forced to do so, just like no one is forced to get 15k armor or any of the other optional aspects of the game. That's what is so mind-boggling about the 'QQ moar. I had two learn myself' crowd. This wouldn't effect them in the slightest if they didn't want it to, but they still claim it's a bad idea. The only possible reasoning that occurs to me is the 'No one should have it easier than me' attitude, which is, not to put too fine a point on it, BS.

What about the r0 who would be genuinely grateful and will hang on every word you say, even if you told them to run a Mending Wammo? Not every r0 is a snotty 13 year old with delusions of adequacy and a sense of entitlement.

I do have to say that the more casual players wont wanna spend hours on wiki, observer mode, and so on, because its just a pain. Learning pvp has to be easily available for everyone, and i'm sure this thread would get 10x more support if all the noobs got on here and started posting

If you just want casual PvP, theres Ra, Ta, Hb, Ab, even Zaishen Elite/Challenge. Ha is very competitive and if you're not even going to spend some effort in learning, you have no right to complain that it is too hard.

who said i wouldn't spend effort in learning... did you even read the openning post. It's about having more experienced people TEACH the noobs, so the noobs LEARN from the exp people. It's much easier to LEARN this way because you are LEARNING by expierence and actually doing HA, not by observer for hours and hours.

So you want someone to hold your hand and guide you along the whole way? Only noobs would support this idea because they would be thrilled to have a ranker let them into their ranked group. Newbs are capable of learning on their own. Newbs would learn from forums and observer modes. It doesn't even take hours like you exaggerated in your post.
Having someone teach you isn't the only way of learning. Using forums and observer mode is a way of learning. If you're not even going to do that, then it is refusing to spend effort in learning.

There is a reason why we have schools u know. You don't expect kids to spend 6 hours at the library learning math/science/english for 6 hours and then expect them to learn a lot. Kids learn much better in school than on their own. Same goes for here. BTW even if u do learn from observer mode and stuff... no one would let that person into groups cause their rank doesn't show their xp, and then they spend like 3 hours a day trying to get into groups to only get like 5 fame.

People learn better by talking to their other peers and friends instead of having a superior guide them down the whole road. If you watch enough observer mode and visit enough forums, you should know enough to make your own group instead of constantly seeking a ranked group that will accept you. When you make your own groups, you can determine which players are capable and which are not. Add them to your friends list so that if you ever want to give Ha another try later, you can whisper them. Maintaining a solid friends list can save you the time of looking for pug's that work. And if they get 5 fame, they should be happy. Every drop of fame counts because it all adds up.

All new HA players should create a giant guild so they can all help each other.

That might be a good idea. The only problem with it is that, for some reason, ANet decided that all characters on one account should be forced into the same guild.

ya make your own group, tried that already lol. Seems like most of them don't know what they are doing either. I tried tell this monk what build to bring... and he just wont even respond because he doesn't listen, or hes just confused. Most other people dont know the builds either. Then you either have them change or kick, and at the same time try to find more people. After 30+ min the people who had the build right the first time will leave. When you eventually get a group together, they will probably lose the first round 3/4 times. Then people rage quit and you can't get a group back together. So then you get your 5 fame for 3 hours of playing... wow rank 5 is like what 600 fame i think? That's 4 months of frustraiting playing time. It seems like at least with me, I dont see many people again doing HA after the first time i see them.

So do you have a real reason NOT to encourage people to help the new players. Or are you gonna have the same excuse as the other guys "ZOMG THOSE NOOBS NEED TO WORK AS HARD AS I DID TO GET MY RANK 6"

---------

BTW I was just in a group with a r7 leading. Members were from r3-7. Best team i've had in a while, sadly we only had like a 2 win streak because we couldn't beat the relic run. But the thing is, from observer mode, you can't learn how to play that relic run map, or any of the maps before. He set out a general plan for us because we mostly didn't know how to do it. The first time we lost was close, 3-4 and one my teammate just ragequit, we still had a chance there. The second time we got smoked by a good team. But at least i'll know what to do next time we get that map.

Also managed to find a group with a r11 who created some unranked group, somewhat heroway. I learned how to play mes.

Well, thats pug for you, disorganized and normally disforms after the first few losses. Its good you found some nice people though. Did you add them to your friends list so that you can ask if they are ever going to do it again? Also, you can get to know the layout for each of the maps and the objectives for winning by looking it up and reading about them on forums.

??? lol, u missed that question

Did you read my posts saying that I would answer questions that a player would ask me? Is that not helpful enough? Is the only way of helping a lower ranker is to let them in my group? I never said that we shouldn't help new players. I just don't like your idea that the only way to learn is to let a high ranker hold your hand and gain the fame for you by letting you into the group. New players have to understand that getting a rank is hard and that they can't expect to just get it very easily. Personally, I think that a person who earns his rank by him/herself would be better off than a person who received help the whole way and had someone else gain the fame for them. As I said earlier