Petition: Stop The Ranks Or Else More 0 Gold Drops!

Rizwan

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

London

The Imperial Guards of Cavalon [TIGC]

Mo/

06 Sep 2007 at 18:17 - 1

Tijger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/E

06 Sep 2007 at 18:29 - 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizwan

This is why i say this:

-People will farm to just get rank 5 which equals less golds.
-Armor isn't up to standard
-The ranks are ridiculous
-Not worth the time some times.
-May nerf everything due to excessive farming
-Gets frustrating going up to the guy hoping for armor but can't.
-Chaos gloves are a HUGE dissapointment
-Why didn't anet put the reskins as the original
-New players get frustrated
-People often may want refund
-and finally WHATS THE POINT!

One more thing:
Dont listen to gamers and make game worse and many will stop buying GW because anet doent let atlest a nine-tenths of complaints go through. 1. No, it doesnt.
2. Yes it is.
3. Not a problem if you play the game, dont need the ranks for much.
4. Thats your opinion.
5. We have loot scaling.
6. Right, whatever.
7. Chaos gloves are for the e-peen challenged who have too much money.
8. Huh?
9. EN isnt for new players.
10. I want a million dollars, neither is going to happen.
11. The point is to enjoy the game, if you dont then dont play it.

Yeah right, 1 million copies in the last 9 months. Wow, they sure did badly. Anet doesnt need to let a tenth of complaints go through? Oh? Do explain how exactly they do that?

Exoudeous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Honor Warriors

06 Sep 2007 at 18:32 - 3

how does rank 5 mean less golds? you do know that other peoples farming doesnt effect your drops, it never did. and they got rid of the farming code awhile ago, your drops dont go down for farming either.

the rest of your post is gibberish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tijger

7. Chaos gloves are for the e-peen challenged who have too much money. or it could be for people that want them. I for example get what ever I think looks nicest weather it be expensive or not, I dont really care if people noctice my fissure armor, I got it because I like it. People that say its epeen are somewhat jealous otherwise they wouldn't care.

HalPlantagenet

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

too far from Conwy

The Chained Swan

06 Sep 2007 at 18:32 - 4

Moderators: with all due deference to the OP, it seems we could do without yet another defocused rant thread. Why not consolidate?

xPIMPx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2005

Hmmm Defrosted Cat [Poo]

W/A

06 Sep 2007 at 18:33 - 5

this is the worst petition i have seen, i see nuffin to do wiv chicken

Rizwan

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

London

The Imperial Guards of Cavalon [TIGC]

Mo/

06 Sep 2007 at 18:41 - 6

sry bout that
i was cranky
soo much P.E

xcenic

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/Me

06 Sep 2007 at 18:43 - 7

just wait for the Gwen beta end.. they may fix all this crap they think can be good for the game...

....uh?? what?? WTF?, this is no a BETA???, this is the real game already!!! oh craps, oh noes this is gonna be soooo bad!!!

someone help us PLZ

Big_Iron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Edge

Tormented Weapons [emo]

06 Sep 2007 at 18:44 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalPlantagenet

Moderators: with all due deference to the OP, it seems we could do without yet another defocused rant thread. Why not consolidate? Better yet, delete this puppy.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

06 Sep 2007 at 18:45 - 9

LOL, is this a threat?!?

"Anet - give us more rank or no more gold drops for you!"

Exoudeous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Honor Warriors

06 Sep 2007 at 18:46 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by xcenic

Rizwan

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

London

The Imperial Guards of Cavalon [TIGC]

Mo/

06 Sep 2007 at 18:46 - 11

wuzzgoinon?
Still tired

If ur talking bout more ranks
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
NO MORE I CANT BEAR IT

Tutis Evito

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

England,UK

Incredible Edible Bookah [YUM]

06 Sep 2007 at 18:51 - 12

better still close

/close

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

06 Sep 2007 at 18:53 - 13

-People will farm to just get rank 5 which equals less golds.

It's under the same farming code as the rest of the game. How is this "less" golds?

-Armor isn't up to standard

Personal Opinion

-The ranks are ridiculous

Rank 3 without any real "grind", Rank 5 failry easy to get

-Not worth the time some times.

Personal Opinion

-May nerf everything due to excessive farming

Anet designed this area to be farm (by Design) they would account drops and loot in to the equation. That and Anet seems *3 black dye drops in 2 weeks, gold's, perfect mods myself* to be increasing wealth to compensate for the amount of stuff to unlocking HoM.

-Gets frustrating going up to the guy hoping for armor but can't.

Just like having to beat Faction to get to the Imperial Armor?

-Chaos gloves are a HUGE dissapointment

I actually like it a lot (but this is a my Personal Opinion)

-Why didn't anet put the reskins as the original

?

-New players get frustrated

Eotn is an expansin for existing lvl 20 character to "add-on" to the games.

-People often may want refund

You may want one, I don't but neither of could get a real number / answer to this, only Anet knows this answer. How many online account based keys can you get a refund no matter where you bought it from.

-and finally WHATS THE POINT!

Last big kick off with stuff to do for a 2 year dry spell before gw 2.

SirJackassIII

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Belgium

none

N/E

06 Sep 2007 at 18:59 - 14

I'm already getting 0 Golds. So less than that is negative golds, meaning stuff will dissappear from my inventory.

Yeah...

onerabbit

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Thanks to all the guru [mods]

06 Sep 2007 at 19:04 - 15

QQ more u @#$%

mscobra

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

ROTK

Mo/Me

06 Sep 2007 at 19:43 - 16

/thinks this is a great post

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcenic
just wait for the Gwen beta end.. they may fix all this crap they think can be good for the game...

....uh?? what?? WTF?, this is no a BETA???, this is the real game already!!! oh craps, oh noes this is gonna be soooo bad!!!

someone help us PLZ /wonders

These few stounch defenders of GW:EN <insert cough sound>woodydotnet are really ANET employees, or more likly self appointed.

Grinding faction points is going to cause your account to be flagged to some degree and will affect your drop rates.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

06 Sep 2007 at 19:50 - 17

Quote:
Originally Posted by mscobra
Grinding faction points is going to cause your account to be flagged to some degree and will affect your drop rates. Just spouting BS or do you have some proof of this?

mscobra

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

ROTK

Mo/Me

06 Sep 2007 at 19:59 - 18

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordakai
Just spouting BS or do you have some proof of this? Yes, I do.

Account farming flags are no secret, even during the Nightfall devloper interviews, the developers spoke briefly of the anti farming code.

If you kill the same mobs over and over in the same area, your account begins to pick up flags that only time will remove. The longer you continue killing in that area the worse the flags will become.

Don't believe me, try 55'ing some hydras and see if the drops don't get worse and worse till almost nothing drops, and it was that way before "loot scaling"

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

06 Sep 2007 at 20:05 - 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by mscobra
Yes, I do.

Account farming flags are no secret, even during the Nightfall devloper interviews, the developers spoke briefly of the anti farming code.

If you kill the same mobs over and over in the same area, your account begins to pick up flags that only time will remove. The longer you continue killing in that area the worse the flags will become.

Don't believe me, try 55'ing some hydras and see if the drops don't get worse and worse till almost nothing drops, and it was that way before "loot scaling"
Loot scale use to work this way. The more you farm, the less drops get, then a "warning" would pop-up stating why you were getting next to nothing.

Now fast forward to "Hard Mode" being introduced. There was a drastic change and some reverting on the change.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10146006

Quote: Originally Posted by Gaile Gray Some players have been concerned about the loot scaling aspect of this week's update. They wonder whether the fact that drops are scaled according to party size will substantially affect their gameplay experience and whether it will impact upon their ability to acquire wealth in the game. We asked the design team for some insight into the design of and the intent behind loot scaling, and found out a lot of interesting reasons for its implementation, including how the changes that have been a point of concern are readily addressed within the very system itself.

The bottom line is that ArenaNet's goal is to make it easier for normal players to make money while redirecting the efforts of the expert farmers to a way to continue to reap rich rewards without having a harmful effect on the overall game economy. The loot has not been scaled across the board. Instead, the loot scaling is selective, and it preserves a means for the high-end farmer to make money.

But let's hear it from the design team itself, with this latest Dev Update:

Why would ArenaNet make changes that impact solo farming?

ArenaNet understands that people enjoy playing Guild Wars in many different ways, and our goal is to make each of those ways fun and rewarding. Solo farming sometimes becomes a controversial issue because it can damage the game for other people. In those cases, ArenaNet tries to keep the game fun for everyone while still providing fun and rewarding play for solo farmers.

A major theme of our most recent update is that the game should be friendlier and more rewarding for casual players, including casual solo farmers, and that the most advanced farmers should differentiate themselves from the crowd not through the amount of gold and common loot that they farm directly from monsters, but instead through the amount of gold that they can get from selling rare items to other players (directly or through traders).

That's a very important distinction. Advanced farmers are always going to earn more money than their more casual counterparts. There's nothing wrong with that. When farmers earn their money by finding valuable items and selling them to other players, they're making the game more enjoyable for everyone. They're facilitating trade, and the gold they acquire from doing so is gold that was already in the game. It's only when solo farming introduces a huge influx of new gold into the economy that it becomes a problem.

Because of the way that Guild Wars loot system worked, solo farming traditionally generated at least eight times as much new gold per participant as playing in a party did. And because solo farmers were motivated to farm only certain specific groups of easily exploitable monsters, they could often generate not just eight times as much, but 10, 20, or 30 times as much loot per hour as everyone else. Even more problematic was that the activity that they were performing was easy for professional gold farmers to automate, so if a single solo farmer could generate 20 times as much loot as the average player, then a network of ten computers running bots could generate 200 times as much loot. This huge influx of new gold caused inflation and made it harder for casual players to afford the items they wanted. In order to contain this problem, ArenaNet periodically added code to prevent monsters from being exploited, for example by adding complexity to the monster AI. But these types of changes made the game less fun for other players.

With the introduction of Hard Mode, we took a look a fresh look at normal mode to see how we could make the game friendlier for normal players. One thing we really wanted to do was to remove some of the advanced AI from normal mode -- things like monsters scattering from AoE, refusing to gather around individual characters, and fleeing or kiting players -- that we had originally introduced to contain botting. But in removing them, we needed to be sure that we weren't reintroducing exploits that would allow professional farmers to destroy the game's economy.

The answer to these problems was to somewhat scale loot according to party size, to bring the direct gold rewards from solo farming more into line with the rewards from other ways of playing the game. But we still wanted solo farmers to have an edge, since solo farming can be a fun way to play and a major reason why people engage in solo farming is to make more money. So we kept the direct gold rewards somewhat better for solo farmer than for people in parties, and then we added new loot which is very valuable to other players and which is exempt from loot scaling, so that solo farmers can farm this loot more effectively than other players and earn money by selling or trading it. Thus, our goal is that solo farmers can still earn as much money as they did before, but they'll have to earn it in different ways. Instead of looking for things to sell to merchants, solo farmers should now be looking for things to sell to traders or other players.

How does loot scaling work?

Without loot scaling, solo farmers received every loot drop, whereas people who played in a party received only a fraction of loot drops. Thus, solo farmers received up to eight times as much loot for killing the same group of monsters. With loot scaling in place, solo farmers still get more loot than people who play in parties, but the gap is less severe than it was before. It is impossible to quantify precisely how much less because it depends on the type of loot farmed and involves some randomness, but here are some rough guidelines:People who play in normal size parties, including parties of heroes and henchman, will see no difference at all from loot scaling. At the same time, they will notice that normal mode is now much easier to farm, and that the introduction of Hard Mode provides a place they can play where the loot is better than ever before. Thus, people who play the game primarily in parties will simply make more money than they previously did. People who periodically enjoy farming solo (with no heroes or henchmen) but are casual about it are also likely to see an improvement. They'll find that solo farming is much easier than it was before, because monsters don't have the anti-farming AI that they used to have, and because the game no longer prevents players from repeatedly farming the same monsters over and over. Many types of builds that didn't work in the past, or that haven't been effective since the earliest days of Guild Wars, can now be used for solo farming. Thus, casual farmers will find the game much easier to farm than it was before, and that they can earn more money than before even with loot scaling in place. People who were advanced solo farmers and who were earning vastly more money through solo farming than through playing the game normally will see the full effect of loot scaling. They will earn less gold and common loot from solo farming than they did in the past. The loot scaling for gold and common loot is not linear with the number of players in the party, and it includes an element of randomness, so while the difference is not easy to quantify, it is by no means a factor of eight. Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party. While gold and common loot are thus reduced for these players by loot scaling, certain other types of loot are completely unaffected. For example, Skill Tomes are completely unaffected by loot scaling, so they still drop eight times as frequently for solo farmers than they do for people who play in parties. Thus, advanced solo farmers will find that certain types of farming are still extremely productive for them, but they may have to change what and where they farm if they want to earn as much money as they did before.
If ArenaNet makes it harder for players to farm, doesn't that drive players to purchase gold for cash from the professional farmers?

ArenaNet's goal is to make it easier for normal players to make money, so that they can buy the things they need without having to purchase gold for cash, and then to redirect the farming activities of the most advanced players so that the way they make money is by selling things to other players rather than by introducing a flood of new gold into the economy.

Here's how we've made it easier for normal players to make money: we removed the advanced AI behaviors from normal mode that slowed down the rate at which people could kill monsters there, we removed artificial barriers to casual farming such as certain farming builds not working or the game penalizing repeated farming of the same groups, we provided somewhat more gold and triple the number of uncommons and rares in Hard Mode, and we introduced entirely new types of loot.

Here's how we've protected the economy from a flood of new gold: advanced farmers and professionals who choose to farm for new gold (as opposed to things they can sell to other players) will only make perhaps two or three times as much gold per hour as normal players, whereas in the past they made at least eight times as much, and by finding specific exploits they sometimes made 10, 20, or 30 times as much gold per hour as normal players.

Here's how we've provided a new way for advanced players to make as much money as they did before: by introducing new items which will have a high demand from other players and thus high trade value, and then by making those items completely unaffected by loot scaling, so that solo farmers still have very effective ways to make a lot of money, but so that they make their money without hurting the game's economy.

Will ArenaNet make additional changes to the loot scaling system?

We constantly monitor the game to ensure that people are able to make good rewards for playing. Originally the list of items that were exempt from loot scaling was limited to newly introduced Hard Mode items. However, after reviewing player feedback and analyzing play logs from the past 12 hours, we've decided to make a broader range of items exempt. We want players who enjoy solo farming to have a wide variety of things that they can enjoy farming. Thus, with today's build, all of the following types of items will now be exempt from loot scaling:Skill Tomes Scrolls Dye Rare materials All rare (gold colored) items All unique (green) items Special event items
We hope this information is helpful and welcome your questions and comments.

mscobra

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

ROTK

Mo/Me

06 Sep 2007 at 20:28 - 20

Quote:
Originally Posted by EternalTempest
Loot scale use to work this way. The more you farm, the less drops get, then a "warning" would pop-up stating why you were getting next to nothing.
Nothing you quoted talks about account flags, we still see the evidence of flags, in the sence the more you play an area, the worse the drops become, regardless of solo or in a group.

Also, you do not always get the warning, I never have, I know other that do get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EternalTempest
now fast forward to "Hard Mode" being introduced. There was a drastic change and some reverting on the change. The subject is GW:EN there is no hard mode.

Vamis Threen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

E/Mo

06 Sep 2007 at 20:46 - 21

Nice work Rizwan

Troll --> Flame War in less than 20 posts

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

06 Sep 2007 at 20:52 - 22

[QUOTE] Quote:
Originally Posted by mscobra
Nothing you quoted talks about account flags, we still see the evidence of flags, in the sence the more you play an area, the worse the drops become, regardless of solo or in a group.

when they switched to hard mode one of the update notes (find it yourself in the UPDATE NOTES) was the specific notation that the farming code was dropped. period. all modes and REPLACED with loot scaling

officially stated as gone all modes which seems clear.

Quote: Also, you do not always get the warning, I never have, I know other that do get it.

i personally have gotten not just the first warning but the second stage we are not kidding message as well.

not heard about it i actually got both of them.

did the wall mission plus cleared another area and all drops back to normal

Quote: The subject is GW:EN there is no hard mode. hard mode/easy mode the flags/anti farm code is gone according to everybody who tested it to be sure.

hated loot scaling but loved the code being gone

EDIT

HERE IT IS

Quote:

People who periodically enjoy farming solo (with no heroes or henchmen) but are casual about it are also likely to see an improvement. They'll find that solo farming is much easier than it was before, because monsters don't have the anti-farming AI that they used to have, and because the game no longer prevents players from repeatedly farming the same monsters over and over. Many types of builds that didn't work in the past, or that haven't been effective since the earliest days of Guild Wars, can now be used for solo farming. Thus, casual farmers will find the game much easier to farm than it was before, and that they can earn more money than before even with loot scaling in place. THERE TIS

Quote:

and because the game no longer prevents players from repeatedly farming the same monsters over and over

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

06 Sep 2007 at 20:57 - 23

Quote:
Originally Posted by mscobra
Nothing you quoted talks about account flags, we still see the evidence of flags, in the sence the more you play an area, the worse the drops become, regardless of solo or in a group.

Also, you do not always get the warning, I never have, I know other that do get it.

The subject is GW:EN there is no hard mode. I've gotten this warning with Shrioken Farming in Factions (Harvest Temple) before. I do agree that drops would go down under the old system before you got the warring. This is no longer the case.

This changed happened when hard mode was implemented (pre gw-eotn).
I expect eotn "normal" mode set up the way they want and a future "hard" mode that does not change (make easier) the "normal" mode of Gwen.

mscobra

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

ROTK

Mo/Me

06 Sep 2007 at 20:59 - 24

Lovitar, please post a refrence to this "update note" I read them all, don't recall mention of flags being dropped nor do I see the evidence of the being dropped...

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

06 Sep 2007 at 21:01 - 25

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mscobra
Lovitar, please post a refrence to this "update note" I read them all, don't recall mention of flags being dropped nor do I see the evidence of the being dropped... see my edit

Karmakin

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2005

06 Sep 2007 at 21:07 - 26

The old system used to work, that it counted the number of entries into the same zone. When farming EotN faction, you actually get more (except for the repeatable primaries, but let's not go there) for clearing areas due to the multipliers/bonuses, rather than repeatedly clearing a limited section.

Even if the old system was in place, you'd be going into an area less, taking longer between zones, so the anti-farm code would hit you less.

genofreek

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

USA

Jenova's Apocolyptic Remains [JAR]

D/

06 Sep 2007 at 22:23 - 27

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet
Better yet, delete this puppy. /signed in blood. We already have topics for complaints about HoM, grind, armor, drops, every minigame, most dungeons, and Anet in general.

CHunterX

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Washington

W/E

06 Sep 2007 at 23:36 - 28

Actually, the anti-farming code seems to still exist. Obviously, theres no way of really "proving" it, since Areanet will deny it obviously, and only they have access to the coding, but its fairly easy to test yourself, if you have the time to go farm something.
Recently, in Nightfall I've farmed a boss for a green Ritualist wand solo. Now, other times I go to solo greens, I never get them on the first, second, or even third drop, but eventually around 10ish, it'll drop for me, and if not, the boss will still drop whites and blues each run, maybe some money and scrolls here and there. So I don't believe then I was hitting the "anti-farming code wall," so to speak.
Anyway, I go out to farm this Ritualist wand all by my lonesome, after around 20 kills, obviously I start to get peeved, but it doesn't slow me down. Around kill 35, the boss stopped dropping anything, no money, no whites, nothing. Even the monsters around him that would be targeted by Sliver Armor by accident dropped absolutely nothing. This went on for about 15 more kills, each with the boss and his cronies not dropping a single item, until finally, it dropped the wand. Could it have been that I was unlucky? Possibly, but for 15 runs getting 1 single item from a boss (which have higher drop-rates on any item than the average mobs). I find it a little fishy.

Curar Partida

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

Halfway To Hell

Mo/

07 Sep 2007 at 00:29 - 29

What the hell are u talking about?
-People will farm to just get rank 5 which equals less golds.
That makes absolutely nosense at all. I dont know about you, but i tend to FIND golds when i farm.

shmek

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

07 Sep 2007 at 01:27 - 30

Quote:
Originally Posted by HalPlantagenet
Moderators: with all due deference to the OP, it seems we could do without yet another defocused rant thread. Why not consolidate? Why consolidate? Apparently there is lots to rant about and why not enjoy the variety of threads ^^

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

07 Sep 2007 at 01:43 - 31

WHY is this rant thread, with nothing more to add, still open for posts?

mscobra

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

ROTK

Mo/Me

07 Sep 2007 at 03:42 - 32

CHunter X took the time to understand my point.

We still see the evidence of anti farm flags, just go try it, was what I said in the begining.

Makes me laugh when someone disagrees with you and has nothing of value to add to the DISCUSSION, their reponce is always "rant" or "plz close thread".

GW policy of drops needs to be discussed, I agree hurt professional farms, how about just pay attention to the millions of bots and ban them.

They have hurt the legit players, its not easier now to make gold, its much harder, and with GW:EN drops are far worse than ever.

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

07 Sep 2007 at 06:25 - 33

/vote to close or delete.

Initial post gibberish and several follow up posts going off topic (if there was a valid topic to start with which I doubt).

Tijger

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Mo/E

07 Sep 2007 at 07:04 - 34

Quote:
Originally Posted by mscobra
Nothing you quoted talks about account flags, we still see the evidence of flags, in the sence the more you play an area, the worse the drops become, regardless of solo or in a group.

Also, you do not always get the warning, I never have, I know other that do get it. You dont get warnings anymore because the farming code does not exist anymore, dumbass.

ember2inferno

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

Australia

Mo/

07 Sep 2007 at 07:17 - 35

Bah, same old annoying complaint thread again.

Get over it. If you don't like it, don't play it.

RTSFirebat

The Humanoid Typhoon

Join Date: May 2005

UK

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

07 Sep 2007 at 08:30 - 36

Closing, too much flame bail and trolling going on here. But really now it is annoying there is no Hard Mode in GW:EN, but we have to all wait and see what A.net have in mind.

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