So you complain about needing to 'grind' reputation points to get GW:EN armor, saying that this puts time played above player skill; are you suggesting that we should somehow use our own skills to acquire armor instead? Are you suggesting that previous armors didn't cost anything, therefore you didn't need to farm ('grind') for them at all? That argument makes no sense whatsoever.
Pretty armor gives you no advantage. It's optional. Work for it if you want it, stop expecting everything you want to be handed to you without putting in any effort.
I complete all the quests. I like mapping, so I kill enemies while I run around the GW:EN areas. I do a few dungeons. And hey presto, R5. You need to try harder.
Why GW Needs Some Grind
Symeon
Redfeather1975
Let's not keep saying that the content is optional, so it's not a problem.
Let's instead think of multiple options to access the content that will appeal to a wider variety of players.
Here's my suggestions:
Bring into EotN the commendation/contract items that are rewarded from special quests.
You can have the option to trade a number of commendations/contracts to an NPC to craft 1 weapon or 1 piece of armour or 1 consumable. You still unlock unlimited crafting transactions when you reach rank x.
PVE skills have an optional power level adjustment using one of the profession's attributes. You can either level up all your PVE skills by gaining faction titles, or you can alternatively choose a certain primary or secondary profession and raise the particular attribute to increase the power of the particular PVE skill for a certain build you wish to try out.
Content has more accessibility options, some only offering limited use....but still accessible to a wider variety of players.
Let's instead think of multiple options to access the content that will appeal to a wider variety of players.
Here's my suggestions:
Bring into EotN the commendation/contract items that are rewarded from special quests.
You can have the option to trade a number of commendations/contracts to an NPC to craft 1 weapon or 1 piece of armour or 1 consumable. You still unlock unlimited crafting transactions when you reach rank x.
PVE skills have an optional power level adjustment using one of the profession's attributes. You can either level up all your PVE skills by gaining faction titles, or you can alternatively choose a certain primary or secondary profession and raise the particular attribute to increase the power of the particular PVE skill for a certain build you wish to try out.
Content has more accessibility options, some only offering limited use....but still accessible to a wider variety of players.
Seissor
Sorry, i dont want my end game to be go outside, C spacebar, C spacebar, C spacebar, C spacebar, for a day or two to rank up to buy armor. Thats a kinda cheap way to give a game longer playtime at the expensive of quality playtime.
As for the "players want everything NOW and ur all cry babies" rebuttle. What now? The armor still costs money and materials, you dont reach Rank 5, walse into town say ty and walk away with armor. duhhhh you already grinded for the money and materials. and getting R5 in a title is added further grind.
Its like making a race sim and bragging how there's new tracks to play and race on, but you cant do more than 30mph on them. Just to extend gameplay.
Most people arent annoyed with the titles, it's more a case of, we're annoyed with the repeativie clearing of areas to get them. Seriously, its fun for 2-3 hours then its boring and we might as well go play another MMORPG and farm.
As for ppl saying they did missions and quests and didnt farm, voila R5. Well WOW. I have done all areas, done all missions, completed all the sidequests and even cleared areas and it will only net you R4. about 1/5 way into R5. And then wake up and realise you got a bonus of 500 faction for doing missions 1st time and 250-500 for doing sidequests and now THEY ARE GONE, NOT REPEATABLE. Missions are, but not for 500 faction, only 100. Remember pre-seer? WOW lvl 7 in under 3 hours! And the higher the level the slower the advancement.
As for the "players want everything NOW and ur all cry babies" rebuttle. What now? The armor still costs money and materials, you dont reach Rank 5, walse into town say ty and walk away with armor. duhhhh you already grinded for the money and materials. and getting R5 in a title is added further grind.
Its like making a race sim and bragging how there's new tracks to play and race on, but you cant do more than 30mph on them. Just to extend gameplay.
Most people arent annoyed with the titles, it's more a case of, we're annoyed with the repeativie clearing of areas to get them. Seriously, its fun for 2-3 hours then its boring and we might as well go play another MMORPG and farm.
As for ppl saying they did missions and quests and didnt farm, voila R5. Well WOW. I have done all areas, done all missions, completed all the sidequests and even cleared areas and it will only net you R4. about 1/5 way into R5. And then wake up and realise you got a bonus of 500 faction for doing missions 1st time and 250-500 for doing sidequests and now THEY ARE GONE, NOT REPEATABLE. Missions are, but not for 500 faction, only 100. Remember pre-seer? WOW lvl 7 in under 3 hours! And the higher the level the slower the advancement.
BlackSephir
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Originally Posted by King Symeon
Quote: Are you suggesting that previous armors didn't cost anything I don't remember grinding for titles to even be able to craft that damned thing, do you?
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Pretty armor gives you no advantage. It's optional.
I think I commented about this whole "optional" talk in my previous post, care to read? Quote:
Naw, you're right...grind is sooo much better than skill. *rolls eyes*
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Quote: Originally Posted by lord dragon For me, both are not worth doing. I came to an MMO to play with people. I know some who like to play by themselves and agree they should have the option. I didn't buy the game for the single player aspect of it. So, it is either grind away to get skills that teams are asking for, or play by myself, or leave. None of those options are apealing to me. More rubbish. You could perhaps play with people who aren't obsessing over a pointless extra level in a skill? Quote:
Lol, gl with that.
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I think it's his sig more than anything.
. IT just happens as u play the game normally the only way they won't is if u deliberately go and avoid npc point givers.
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Originally Posted by LifeInfusion
trying to compete with wow in a grind-based MMO market is like hitting your head on a wall.
GW wasn't made with grind in mind, which is why it is crazy to think they should add grind to compete with WOW. Jeff Strain said GW wasn't made to compete with WoW in his latest discussion on MMO business models. See in P2P MMO's I expect grind, and don't really mind it. They'll try whatever they can to "drain" the money out of you (depends on your financial situation, of course). With Guild Wars, it feels like a "last resort" more than anything. Not that I really mind, since I don't look at it like an MMO, but since other people do have that mindset, it can be a problem.
Darlichay Dalinar
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Symeon
Pretty armor gives you no advantage. It's optional.
True, but it's been a big part of ANET's advocation in the game's sales. This has been terribly moved into for GW:EN and by giving a grind for said optional-yet-advocated items is... a poor display.
Sure, we have a year to gain said armors and items. Maybe we're slamming our heads into a wall by doing so much so quickly (some of us) but all the same we do like to be different, at least for a little while... I mean, I play a dervish 95% of the time, and so many run around in primeval. I would love to be different and love to have something that kind of stood out, and so outside the money grind, I had to get points like I did for sunspear and Lightbringer... Dumb. Moving on... And sorry if I was confusing. Crotalus
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Originally Posted by King Symeon
Pretty armor gives you no advantage.
Exactly! Unlike skills which can make or break a battle those fancy skins will not. You can beat Shiro without 'Spoil Victor' but he goes down easier with that skill. (That is just one example)
The Guild Wars community has stated time and time again that to obtain all the skills in one campaign, one must grind(farm). Anet has backed up the communities wishes. Do you honestly think that for the optional armor and weapons Anet will remove the grind while allowing the important content(skills) to have grind? If that happens then Anet fails at game design. I am not trying to turn this into skill acquisition QQ thread but to show that if Anet (and the community) is unwilling to remove the grind for skills, an important piece of content, then it would be out of the question to ask them to remove grind for an optional piece of content, armor and weapons. If you don't like the grind for either optional or important content then don't support Anet in Guild Wars 2. It is very much apparent that they are catering to the grind monkeys in GW:EN which will most likely translate into GW2. Mac Sidewinder
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Originally Posted by lord dragon
As for my signature. It is a quote from DUNE. It means. Grind is the killer of the game. It will destroy your mind of creativity. It has snuck in the game like a thief in the night and started to rot GW. I have seen to many leave GW lately. This is ashame. Now for the grinder who hero and heches it, no loss. For Anet, they already made thier money on the game, so if people leave after, it is to thier advantage, less equipment to run.
I don't like "grind" anymore than the next person but you ought to think about what you say before you post. Do you really think that Anet's plan was to make everybody pissed off so they would quit playing the game? How is this advantagous to them in any way? Less money for equipment? Come on. I'm sure they try to make the best game they can to keep their fan base up as high as possible. They miss the mark once in a while (like this expansion) but i'm pretty sure they're not trying to commit suicide by driving everyone away.
If you're disapointed, that's understandable, but at least try to make intelligent comments. IlikeGW
Guild Wars has always had secret grinding. They just dress it up different ways but lately they forgot to put clothes on it.
=HT=Ingram
This is true, and its a continuing movement of any game anymore. heck look at games like BF2? a traditional FPS right? well yea, but it also has grind in it for ranks and unlocks that give the long term player advantages over others. Again this is a mentality thing that the developers reward the people that play more with something, but its not necessary to enjoy the game if you don't do it either... I use this comparison only for example of unusual and generally unexpected grind in another type of game.
Its all about prestige more then necessity. Anet knows that this is a driving factor for some players in these types of games. "I'm better then you cause ..." mentality... When in all reality its a trick to keep the haves playing and the have nots' wanting what the haves have. lol That was convoluted huh? lol But then again so is some of the communities mentality on things... Its all in what you take away from it. If you bought GWEN and was unhappy with it, well ok, your job is done at this point, you got new options, or you don't its all up to you... If you do not have GWEN well then your not too concerned with any of this. but don't be too surprised to see people in the newest part of the game for a period of time.. it takes time for the community to filter back to their old routines after a new chapter or expansion is released. But it always seems to happen eventually. Either by the old school people going and doing some stuff they have not in a long time, OR by new people to the game world coming in. China may or may not be a big draw, but either way I doubt anet will charge them subscriptions as it stands as their number 1 business model not to have a subscription. True the Government may charge them for the censor controls or whatever, but I doubt that will be under Anets purview, but more the Chinese government taking their cut for use of their infrastructure. lord dragon
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Originally Posted by Gli
More rubbish. You could perhaps play with people who aren't obsessing over a pointless extra level in a skill?
It wasn't clever the first time, and I don't think the repetition is growing on anyone. The question is whether you have the skill or not and how powerful it is. This has started. Get over the idea that these skills did not unbalance the game, they have. As for the other, this is my signature. You will see it on all my posts. Please remember... I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me. lord dragon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder
I don't like "grind" anymore than the next person but you ought to think about what you say before you post. Do you really think that Anet's plan was to make everybody pissed off so they would quit playing the game? How is this advantagous to them in any way? Less money for equipment? Come on. I'm sure they try to make the best game they can to keep their fan base up as high as possible. They miss the mark once in a while (like this expansion) but i'm pretty sure they're not trying to commit suicide by driving everyone away.
If you're disapointed, that's understandable, but at least try to make intelligent comments. The bottom line is this is happening. I have seen it before in other MMOs and I am seeing it now in GW. Please remember... I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
=HT=Ingram
lol I had to have read that 30 times now lord in various threads. lol I think it deserves an in game quote with a henchmen someplace lol
Melody Cross
People who don't like grind are going to be very disappointed when GW2 comes out, imho.
To be fair, the grind in this game is much less heavy handed than in other MORPGs I've played. It takes 2 days to get the primary and most of the secondary quests done, then a couple lucky runs with r4 hunt up early to get an r5 title. Most games took a week of pre-prep to get components you need for a several hour raid requiring lots of people working together to kill one monster, and then you had to /roll to get the powerful item and hope you or a friend got it (so he would sell to you for cost). I think we're lucky they haven't followed the WoW template. This game is more fun. |
