PvE and Imbalance?

This is just a general rant about my thoughts. Feel free to disagree, correct me if I'm wrong. But I wanted to mention this somewhere.

ArenaNet has done a stellar job in balancing all the classes for PvP. Maybe monks are still most often in demand, but thats not an issue. Every class will get its fair share of PvP coverage.

However, when we come to PvE, we find a few problems. The skills are all balanced. But the disadvantages aren't. For example, look at the elementalist. It is built as a classic "mage" class. Weak as anything versus attacks, but can deal a lot of damage. Perfect for PvP. But in PvE, well, lookee here. We get a tank, and it never has to get hit! Instant imbalance. The same goes for Necros. Skills like Spoil Victor and Spiteful Spirit are as balanced as 1000 angels dancing on the top of a pin in PvE. However, in PvE, all you have to do is bond them into invincibility, and even the hardest of bosses can be reduced to a fraction of its health.

What does this mean then? Well, those of us who play a class that isn't an ele, necro, monk or warrior is pretty much stuck for finding a group in the elite missions. Rangers pretty much have to be fairly close to be of any significant effect. Assassins can spike easily in PvP, but in the harder PvP zones, especially the elite missions, they will be killed too quickly to be of any use. Mesmers... well, don't get me started on mesmers. They've been nerfed into oblivion because of eles abusing their skills in PvP.

I don't talk about most of the game. But in the elite missions, you'll be hard pressed to find a space in a group unless you are one of the 4 "grail" classes. And as soon as a way round this is found, ie: the splinter barrage team, it is nerfed, for some reason unbeknownst to me. And this is irritating for those of us who have put a lot of effort into a certain character, only to have it refused entry into any organized team in the elite mission.

As I said to start with, correct me if I'm wrong. Post your point of view. I didn't post this in the suggestions board as, well, short of splitting PvE and PvP into 2 entirely separate games, I don't think theres anything Anet can do. But hey, it feels good to have a rant now and again.

Is this a joke?

Oh boy buddy, do I agree with you.

My favorite character is a Ranger. He isn't my oldest but I have completed Factions and Nightfall on him (going for Prophecies next) and I love him and his good looks

I used to have a ton of trouble getting into a group with my guild except for FoW, but some guy was nice enough to make a DoA tank build for me.

I recall making a thread like this somewhere and got the hell flamed out of me by some Anet fanboys... but I sincerely back you up here and hope that the four "grail" classes will no longer be the only things that can get teams.

I think it's a joke.

PvE and Balance?

First: Your assessment of classes is so wrong, it's not even worth mentioning. Elementalists - dealing damage? That has been a running joke for about 2 years now.

Second: Stop getting into PUGs. Find a decent guild. Then you'll see what "other" classes do in PvE.

This is not Anet's problem. It's players. The "grail" classes are a PUG joke. They work well in beginner/mid-game regular mode. Then they just become tedious.

Again - get a decent guild that isn't locked into cookie cutters.

It will never change. Balence is based on pvp thats what all the new pve skills are for.

PvE imbalance thread right after PvP deathknell thread?

And yeah, get a good guild. In mine we are continually shooting new builds off each other in missions. Some great ones you won't find on Wiki. If your guildies won't take you along, maybe you should be in another guild? It's a shit guild that won't take one of its bois along. Especially a ranger. What were you running? Archer's Signet?

I don't know. As a dervish, while in gate of pain/madness I was the last to go down on my team even though i was in the MIDDLE of the fighting. The MONKS died before me.

4 parts PuG 1 part Watchful Intervention

And I find it easy to get in a group; if anything I just call on some friends and we hero it just fine. (Also, I've been replacing my monk healer with a necro healer occasionally...it's pretty fun!)

those classes are used most because most people prefer that easy style of play - pick a target and put all you got on it, if theres too many things then they use a tank... i dont know if you tried vanquishing, doing missions in hard mode or doing anything in eye of north, but using those "unwanted" classes REALLY helps: BiP on paragon rather than necro - more damage & hero necros dont know how to autobip, echo clumsiness mesmer - defence and offence at the same time, shadow prison assasins with conjure whatever - spiking out monks in mobs with several monks speeds things up a lot... just because there arent builds on wiki doesnt mean classes fail.

theres many ways to do the same thing all of which are good in their own way, you can go with good old bunch of eles, tank, monk and a bunch of candy canes or you can use something different and never die...

if you dont believe me do arborstone in hardmode with warriors n eles and then with paragons n mes



and QQ more about imbalance in pvp... balanced still wins. daily.

Umm, then why is my alliance currently in FoW with a Dervish tank, an Assassin, 2 Mesmers, a Necro, a Ranger, and a Monk?

You can't expect to always be taken along. Wait for your turn much?

I don't even have it unlocked I believe... I usually run something like this:

[card]Melandru's Shot[/card][card]Savage Shot[/card][card]Distracting Shot[/card][card]Crossfire[/card][card]Mending Touch[/card][card]Troll Unguent[/card][card]Throw Dirt[/card][card]Rebirth[/card]

aparently it was.

I should have stopped reading right here.

I should have known this guy was crazy, or on drugs.

And monks stay away from PvP because if your team fails, ITS ALL YOUR FAULT! NOOB MONK, should have insta healed me while I was tanking the 6 other players, while an Assassin was killing you!



I actually stopped reading somewhere in the middle there when I realised what you were saying.... Yes PvE players have to much of an advantage over the PvE mobs


QQ KTHKBI

This guy is an epic winner.

Someone give him a cookie.
Edit: btw, no sarcasm intended.

If PvE was unbalanced you'd see monsters posting here about how overpowered we are.

The melee professions get enough benefits from increased armor and physical damage. Also, they're less chained to their health and energy. I just made an Assassin on Saturday and it was amazed at how much easier it was to play a Sin than to play my Necro or my Rit. There's zero prep time. Before battle I apply my stances and/or enchantments, which cost much less than caster enchantments, and start stabbing. The caster professions are fine as is. They trade melee combat, more health, and better armor for more powerful spells and increased energy. No one ever really says they're broken in PvE until someone abuses them in PvP anyway. *lol*

Since you wanted to be corrected as you said. Everything you posted is wrong. First Anet hasn't done a steller job on game balance. Greneth Derv trains? Hexway? Some meta's went for far to long and when Night Fall came out, it killed off the last remaining bit of PvP that was left.

Secondly, your impressions of the classes are wrong. Warriors are better damage dealers than Ele's, and Ele's can bring many defensive abilities such as wards and blinding surge. Rangers are very good at interrupting, actually extremely good at that and can spread conditions like plague. Do I really have to say what you said about Mesmers is wrong? I find it pretty obvious.

Thirdly the holy trinity which was expressed in another thread not long ago doesn't apply in Guild Wars nor does the 4 "grail" classes which you expressed.

Lol. Imagine that.
Dear Anet, this is Ice imp no.112. My problem is I can't cast any spells, that damn human mesmer keep interupting me and hexed me with all kind of stuff. I only have 5 skills on my bar and it's so unfair. I have been with GW since 2003 alpha testing, and I would like to get it sort out pls.

You're amazingly good at

Quote:

Originally Posted by ValaOfTheFens I just made an Assassin on Saturday

Don't use Assassins as a basis for anything.

Ever.

Sorry, but you really need to refrain from making posts like this when you don't know what you're talking about. Counting from 3, down to 1, whilst sitting in Wards, with dual Shield's Up, Defensive Anthem, chained Aegis, Blind spam, etc. is not balanced play.

Good player + right build = any class can succeed.

I have played every class in gw in all 3 chapters and have started to move them all through GW:EN.

Before you decide wheather or not to accept a certain proff. into your party for a quest or mission look at the player. Find out what they have done, how they did it, if they are willing to learn new party builds or if they simply believe what worked in the last quest will rule all.

My sin always runs 100+ armor and quick self heals so he can out tank most tanks, as long as I am not foolish enough to stand in the middle of nukers/hexes/wells/melee spikes that would destroy any class.

My paragon can often turn even the worst pug into a survivor team with few deaths.

Anyone that has taken on a tough monk or elemental boss will praise having a good mesmer or ranger in the party.


Balance in this game comes from knowing how to use each proffesion to the best of its ability and to the benifit of your party. If every class was perfectly balanced to each other then every party would consist of 4 wars and 4 monks.

... Why? Because they're that good at being the basis for just about everything that it'd mess up all possible comparisons?

This is not an issue with balance, it is an issue with players being bad and not realizing there are other good classes. I wrote an article about it, you should probably take a look.

Considering just about any class has success in all areas, PvE has no balance issues. This is because the only purpose in PvE is to complete the area, and while vast differences in capability between classes exist, it's fairly clear these is not a high priority - or an issue that will make or break a team. It's player perception.

Except that its too easy.

*lol*

I have a Warrior and Dervish as well but find those classes to be slightly more burdensome than Assassin. I gotta wait for adrenaline to build up with a Warrior(thats one of the reasons I erased my Paragon) and I have to layer on enchantments on a Dervish. I had an Assassin before but it was when I first started playing and so I didn't understand about chaining attacks.

I think tanking should be nerfed a little harder, breaks the Holy Trinity to it's core.

GW =/= WoW.

The trinity doesn't really exist in GW (read Avarre's epic post [on page 2, iirc]) on why this is so.

Tanking in Guild Wars?

OMG GUISE LISTN! I'm gonna cast mending and then with grood skills like defy pain and doyak signet, i'm so pro that with healing hands i cannot die, let me tank that army in RA too! cyclone axe makes me attack more enemies in less time, so much damage!

I think I'll take the advice here and join a better guild. From reading the rest of the posts, I've re-evaluated my view. The "grail" classes, as I dubbed them, are the EASIEST to play in a team of 8, and are thus the 4 classes which you are most likely to find a team for with PUGs. Thinking about it, when I defeated Rotscale in HM for the vanquisher title, it was with a team of 2 monks, 2 Rangers, 2 Eles, an Assassin and a Necro. Proving that I'm utterly, utterly wrong.

It wasn't a joke, as I don't have that much experience of PvP. I'm r3 hero, but still. I knew enough to jump to conclusions, however. Again, thinking about it, every now and again I'll witness one class overtaking all the other HA groups with superior skills. Doesn't happen that much any more, though, which I guess led to my conclusion jumping.

And I that everyone who made me laugh with the "#112 Ice Imp" etc. jokes. Made it worth the flaming.

Oh, and (V) this (V) guy? Make sense next time, please.
(For the record, my guild isn't bad, as such. Just amazingly casual.)

The imbalances are not about skills,players and professions.It is about all the nerfs that have happened to PvE like loot scaling etc.Then take the areas that have been hit.This is why a lot of players left or are doing other things know for hour a day.If PvEer didn't put so much time into their char PvE would be like what has happened to PvP but in away Nightfall ruined that as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SotiCoto ... Why? Because they're that good at being the basis for just about everything that it'd mess up all possible comparisons?

No, because they take no skill to play. Mindless mashing of number keys in order should not be compared to selection of skills based on the current situation.

Avarre's post on the "trinity" is only two things: long, and irrelevant. It doesn't matter one bit what people say here because PUGs are not going to change. It is fruitless trying to teach donkeys to be ballerinas. Read that post, sigh in agreement, and move on.