I've been just checking up the wikis and have discovered that the majority of the warrior builds I've seen no longer carry the blessed 16 weapon standard.
I've been using it since, well, forever and am wondering if doing less damage and crits with your weapon actually yields benefits now.
[note some of these are rated 'great' builds, though I'm starting to wonder...]
I wield an axe and shield that grant +60 hp combined [and with my tactics shield, +75 hp in stance] and have a superior vigor rune.
I have more hp than one without any sup. runes... (considering they don't bring any hp modifying gear]
Why are people suggesting NOT bringing 16 in weapon mastery for these wikis?
16 weapon standard... gone?
Yukito Kunisaki
milkflopance
Because the loss of 35-75 health usualy isn't worth the extra point or two.
With a major or minor rune, yes, you're lowing your damage and crit chances, but it's definately worth the extra health.
personally, i run 15 for my weapons.
With a major or minor rune, yes, you're lowing your damage and crit chances, but it's definately worth the extra health.
personally, i run 15 for my weapons.
Squishy ftw
No idea why others do so, but I run 14 in weap just for the 75 health gain. I often need the hp more than a bit of extra dmg while vanquishing.
Abnaxus
A.net skill balancer (forgot his name) puts round numbers like +20, +30, +40 for damage at level 15 weapon (see dragon slash, executioner and so on).
I use superior runes on all chars (even warrior) and the 20 points can be better spent on another attribute.
Generally 15-12-9 is the "magic combination" for most classes, 12 especially is the break-even for many primary attributes, like expertise, misticism and leadership. As well as 9 is the magic number for shields.
I use superior runes on all chars (even warrior) and the 20 points can be better spent on another attribute.
Generally 15-12-9 is the "magic combination" for most classes, 12 especially is the break-even for many primary attributes, like expertise, misticism and leadership. As well as 9 is the magic number for shields.
Perfected Shadow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abnaxus
I use superior runes on all chars (even warrior) and the 20 points can be better spent on another attribute.
If you use 2 majors, 1 minor, you can have the 15-12-9 setup and gain 5 HP : )
Racthoh
I run 16, and have another helm in case I get DP.
Yukito Kunisaki
The brunt of my warrior's damage comes from 2 things:
either my axe
or
Grenth's Balance
I have yet to see strength as a useful stat attribute because I play my warrior under an offense minded strategy. Defensively, I rely on equipment hp bonuses to carry me through.
Can someone tell me what they'd use the 20 attribute points saved on? [can't think of anything that helps me kill things, I'm W/N all the way]
but if we are following the 12 base atb builds, then the weap / hp ceiling ratio is 14 weapon / +75 hp, assuming minor runes only.
Do people take crit rate and bonus damage into account? Way back, going 16 weapon was usually the difference between a warrior and a gimp...
So people are able to do more damage and utilize more lasting effects [think: conditions] using a lower weapon attribute? Are warriors being targetted more often now?
I just recently re-entered Alliance Battles after a nearly 1.5yr. long hiatus and I'm lovin' it. I'm still usually ignored and though I'm in PUGs for now, I still don't see why a warrior with 110 AL phys. and 100 AL ele. (I use Sentry inscriptions
] should fear anything... 
Somebody convince me otherwise cause the other attributes a warrior can wield REALLY isn't very convincing to getting the job done.
What good is 75hp when a smart group is going to hit you with a spike for 4x. that or degen the snot out of you?
btw, I like Racthoh's response the most and it seems to be the most 'logical' but it still lives by the 16 weapon atb.
either my axe
or
Grenth's Balance
I have yet to see strength as a useful stat attribute because I play my warrior under an offense minded strategy. Defensively, I rely on equipment hp bonuses to carry me through.
Can someone tell me what they'd use the 20 attribute points saved on? [can't think of anything that helps me kill things, I'm W/N all the way]
but if we are following the 12 base atb builds, then the weap / hp ceiling ratio is 14 weapon / +75 hp, assuming minor runes only.
Do people take crit rate and bonus damage into account? Way back, going 16 weapon was usually the difference between a warrior and a gimp...
So people are able to do more damage and utilize more lasting effects [think: conditions] using a lower weapon attribute? Are warriors being targetted more often now?
I just recently re-entered Alliance Battles after a nearly 1.5yr. long hiatus and I'm lovin' it. I'm still usually ignored and though I'm in PUGs for now, I still don't see why a warrior with 110 AL phys. and 100 AL ele. (I use Sentry inscriptions
] should fear anything... Somebody convince me otherwise cause the other attributes a warrior can wield REALLY isn't very convincing to getting the job done.
What good is 75hp when a smart group is going to hit you with a spike for 4x. that or degen the snot out of you?
btw, I like Racthoh's response the most and it seems to be the most 'logical' but it still lives by the 16 weapon atb.
Zahr Dalsk
For my superior rune I have 16 strength and use Defy Pain + Endure Pain a loss of 75 health and a gain of over 600 health, putting me at around 1000 total health. Meaning that Victorious Sweep will almost always heal me whenever I hit with it.
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
For my superior rune I have 16 strength and use Defy Pain + Endure Pain a loss of 75 health and a gain of over 600 health, putting me at around 1000 total health. Meaning that Victorious Sweep will almost always heal me whenever I hit with it.
Using elites to keep a class alive that supposed to be ignored is a waste of efficiency and effort.
You have 1000 hp, fine, but can your build do more damage than mine? Has there ever been a need to absorb 1200 hp worth of damage? Are you monks retards? Survival on a Guild Wars Warrior should be 2nd vs. doing damage. If I wanted a class that could tank and hurt nothing, I'd go play some worthless p2p mmorpg...
If my Deep Wound attack lasts a whole 3s. more than the other guy who has 75 hp extra, I think I have a better chance of winning...
But that's just my opinion which I'd have trouble backing up using math the way Ensign would...
You have 1000 hp, fine, but can your build do more damage than mine? Has there ever been a need to absorb 1200 hp worth of damage? Are you monks retards? Survival on a Guild Wars Warrior should be 2nd vs. doing damage. If I wanted a class that could tank and hurt nothing, I'd go play some worthless p2p mmorpg...
If my Deep Wound attack lasts a whole 3s. more than the other guy who has 75 hp extra, I think I have a better chance of winning...
But that's just my opinion which I'd have trouble backing up using math the way Ensign would...
nem coke
In PvE it's up to you to choose - more hp or more dmg, it's personal preference, and doesn't matter much. Not that mobs are gonna b-spike you or something.
nebuchanezzar
That is the answer....one set of armor. Before that change to GW all the better players had multiple sets of armor on inventory. Plus headpieces in both Minor and Superior(or majors as the case sometimes called)
Warriors ran 16 weapon and if they got spiked down a couple times would swap the helmet for one with a minor. They also did this at VoD to help combat the -25% health effect.
Now that armor/rune swapping is a thing of old memories only, the luxuries it afforded are gone too. Now for PvPyou want max HP in anticipation of VoD spikes. Playing safe has pushed this change as you dont want to hit a Blood Spike while stuck with a Sup rune and less than 500 health.
Warriors ran 16 weapon and if they got spiked down a couple times would swap the helmet for one with a minor. They also did this at VoD to help combat the -25% health effect.
Now that armor/rune swapping is a thing of old memories only, the luxuries it afforded are gone too. Now for PvPyou want max HP in anticipation of VoD spikes. Playing safe has pushed this change as you dont want to hit a Blood Spike while stuck with a Sup rune and less than 500 health.
Darkpower Alchemist
With a sup weapon rune and generic perfect shield and weapon, you will float at around 505hp. I use Sup runes for my warrior helms, and the extra att points I can redistribute for all types of builds.
My conjure build in particular is warranted for the use of the sup rune, so as to add more to the element without taking a major hit to my average att levels.
15(sword) 10(Strength) 8(Tactics) 8(Air/Fire/Water)
In PvP, the reason for the decrease is due to the survival chances and the Hp increase-yet I use it to maximize my damage output. Sup runes open up possibilities.
My conjure build in particular is warranted for the use of the sup rune, so as to add more to the element without taking a major hit to my average att levels.
15(sword) 10(Strength) 8(Tactics) 8(Air/Fire/Water)
In PvP, the reason for the decrease is due to the survival chances and the Hp increase-yet I use it to maximize my damage output. Sup runes open up possibilities.
TheOneMephisto
On the PvP side, the change from 16 weapon to 14 has mostly been driven by GvG. Some other stuff has affected it, like the rising health averages and earlier (eurospike era) dominance of armor-ignoring damage. However, the main reason is the VoD-centric gameplay of GvG, and at VoD a warrior that's extending into 20 enemy archers needs as much health as possible.
The extra damage doesn't really matter now since kills are much rarer outside of VoD. Health is really needed on splits and at VoD, and these are the only things that really mean anything in most GvGs nowadays.
The extra damage doesn't really matter now since kills are much rarer outside of VoD. Health is really needed on splits and at VoD, and these are the only things that really mean anything in most GvGs nowadays.
nem coke
''The Campfire
PvE Builds and Discussion
Share your strategies, experience and tips here for builds and groups for PvE.
Guild Wars Forums - GW Guru > The Hall of Knowledge > The Campfire > Warrior'' Is this just forum mistake or is this pve only section?
PvE Builds and Discussion
Share your strategies, experience and tips here for builds and groups for PvE.
Guild Wars Forums - GW Guru > The Hall of Knowledge > The Campfire > Warrior'' Is this just forum mistake or is this pve only section?
moriz
the biggest contributing factor to the move to 14 weapon in pvp is that you no longer can swap equipment in pvp. before, if a warrior (or any profession, for that matter) gets dp, he can just swap to a minor rune equivalent headgear to balance out the hp loss. since we no longer have this option, everyone will (and should) play it safe and go with 14 by default.
the 75 hp is worth a lot more than the 1 to 2 extra damage when using the superior weapon rune.
the 75 hp is worth a lot more than the 1 to 2 extra damage when using the superior weapon rune.
Blkout
I run 14 on Hammer builds since I don't have a shield to make up for the +30 health I usually gain with a shield and a hammer is powerful enough without going to 15 or 16. I run 15 on axe and sword builds though since I have a +30shield to make up for the -35 health lost from the major rune. I have found this combination works without any issues.
Emik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
Using elites to keep a class alive that supposed to be ignored is a waste of efficiency and effort.
You have 1000 hp, fine, but can your build do more damage than mine? Has there ever been a need to absorb 1200 hp worth of damage? Are you monks retards? Survival on a Guild Wars Warrior should be 2nd vs. doing damage. If I wanted a class that could tank and hurt nothing, I'd go play some worthless p2p mmorpg...
If my Deep Wound attack lasts a whole 3s. more than the other guy who has 75 hp extra, I think I have a better chance of winning...
But that's just my opinion which I'd have trouble backing up using math the way Ensign would...
Amazing how after a simple state of what a person does you start trolling him...
Also, the amount of e-peen in the bold sentence is just too much.
GG
I think it's still up to one person how he feels he needs to play.
No need to judge that and then start to demolish it with personal views on the matter.
You asked a question, people answer and if it doesn't suit your personal views, leave it
You have 1000 hp, fine, but can your build do more damage than mine? Has there ever been a need to absorb 1200 hp worth of damage? Are you monks retards? Survival on a Guild Wars Warrior should be 2nd vs. doing damage. If I wanted a class that could tank and hurt nothing, I'd go play some worthless p2p mmorpg...
If my Deep Wound attack lasts a whole 3s. more than the other guy who has 75 hp extra, I think I have a better chance of winning...
But that's just my opinion which I'd have trouble backing up using math the way Ensign would...
Amazing how after a simple state of what a person does you start trolling him...Also, the amount of e-peen in the bold sentence is just too much.
GG
I think it's still up to one person how he feels he needs to play.
No need to judge that and then start to demolish it with personal views on the matter.
You asked a question, people answer and if it doesn't suit your personal views, leave it
recreant
I've been seeing alot of conjure W/E's lately, been running one myself for quite awhile now and I hardly ever take 16 in swords. Those xtra points you can put into an element stat are much more valuable, and you need all the health/survivability you can get with this build because when you're dishing out the damage imo, I can guarentee you won't be ignored.
A sin or ele can take you out in a matter of seconds if you're not careful, lets be honest. My personal play-style would not have me just relying on the monk for those close-call scenarios. I think that's how alot of warriors feel.
As far as pve, as a warrior most PUGs will want you tanking. Even when I'm henching I usually max out strength and go as a tank, cuz there's some tough mobs out there and if you can manage to hold off 5 or 6 of them while the nukers work on them, it can make all the difference between a wipe and moving forward.
A sin or ele can take you out in a matter of seconds if you're not careful, lets be honest. My personal play-style would not have me just relying on the monk for those close-call scenarios. I think that's how alot of warriors feel.
As far as pve, as a warrior most PUGs will want you tanking. Even when I'm henching I usually max out strength and go as a tank, cuz there's some tough mobs out there and if you can manage to hold off 5 or 6 of them while the nukers work on them, it can make all the difference between a wipe and moving forward.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
You have 1000 hp, fine, but can your build do more damage than mine? Has there ever been a need to absorb 1200 hp worth of damage? Are you monks retards? Survival on a Guild Wars Warrior should be 2nd vs. doing damage. If I wanted a class that could tank and hurt nothing, I'd go play some worthless p2p mmorpg...
: And with me staying alive, my hero nukers can annihilate everything from the safety of the back lines
Besides, I get a pretty nice damage output anyways (I haven't played my warrior lately so don't ask what it is), plus it's a scythe so 3 enemies are hit per swing.
: And with me staying alive, my hero nukers can annihilate everything from the safety of the back lines
Besides, I get a pretty nice damage output anyways (I haven't played my warrior lately so don't ask what it is), plus it's a scythe so 3 enemies are hit per swing.
stueyman2099
PvP~Minor
PvE~Sup
PvE~Sup
Turbobusa
"All minor idiot" is what my guildies call me 
sometimes, a major rune, but 75hp for +2 attributes isn't worth it imo.
ractoh's solution is ok but my inventory is already filled with weapons/headpieces...
sometimes, a major rune, but 75hp for +2 attributes isn't worth it imo.
ractoh's solution is ok but my inventory is already filled with weapons/headpieces...
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by stueyman2099
PvP~Minor
PvE~Sup Ah, so in PvP, warriors are now considered threatening enough to actually target first?
[note, don't bring up other skills in this thread and such, I only want to discuss why not do the most damage with your weapon. If you've got other ideas that don't involve the runes directly or indirectly, please don't mention them as they're beside the point]
I've accidentally moved the thread off topic and what this guy says translates to me, that Warriors are now more of a threat *which can be a nice compliment* or, that with all these new skills, they are now much easier to kill...
Back in the olden days *lol, I'm old*, Warriors truly were ignored by the competent players, and when the fools actually did 'focus fire' a warrior, they soon discovered that a monk only needs to put forth a minor effort to keep said spiked warrior alive. Henceforth, the fools would then change targets realizing that the warrior is still the hardest class to kill in this game.
But if PvP demands the use of a minor rune to save up a precious +75 hp, then I suppose, the general public are starting to formulate and see things differently...
That may have answered my opening question, why not bring 16 in weapon mastery? Because you want to live for 75hp longer. Using the PvP/PvE argument definitely clarifies things to a degree.
But in your opinions now: is 75hp a deal breaker? Why wouldn't you run 12 base atb in your weapon as a warrior? (I'm talking about REAL tanks, not decoys-with-shields) Are Strength, Tactics, etc. not high enough to meet the demands of your shield/skills? I can easily see tactics hitting 11 on some warriors to get the 'feel' of the old WY! *20 AL for 4a. for your team is hot stuff* But even at the loss of 75hp, I've never felt the need for that health lost. I still make up for it using runes and good weapons/shield mods but I suppose from what I can tell, the majority of people 'desperately' need that 75 hp...
Ah well...
PvE~Sup Ah, so in PvP, warriors are now considered threatening enough to actually target first?
[note, don't bring up other skills in this thread and such, I only want to discuss why not do the most damage with your weapon. If you've got other ideas that don't involve the runes directly or indirectly, please don't mention them as they're beside the point]
I've accidentally moved the thread off topic and what this guy says translates to me, that Warriors are now more of a threat *which can be a nice compliment* or, that with all these new skills, they are now much easier to kill...
Back in the olden days *lol, I'm old*, Warriors truly were ignored by the competent players, and when the fools actually did 'focus fire' a warrior, they soon discovered that a monk only needs to put forth a minor effort to keep said spiked warrior alive. Henceforth, the fools would then change targets realizing that the warrior is still the hardest class to kill in this game.
But if PvP demands the use of a minor rune to save up a precious +75 hp, then I suppose, the general public are starting to formulate and see things differently...
That may have answered my opening question, why not bring 16 in weapon mastery? Because you want to live for 75hp longer. Using the PvP/PvE argument definitely clarifies things to a degree.
But in your opinions now: is 75hp a deal breaker? Why wouldn't you run 12 base atb in your weapon as a warrior? (I'm talking about REAL tanks, not decoys-with-shields) Are Strength, Tactics, etc. not high enough to meet the demands of your shield/skills? I can easily see tactics hitting 11 on some warriors to get the 'feel' of the old WY! *20 AL for 4a. for your team is hot stuff* But even at the loss of 75hp, I've never felt the need for that health lost. I still make up for it using runes and good weapons/shield mods but I suppose from what I can tell, the majority of people 'desperately' need that 75 hp...
Ah well...
Cherng Butter
I run 600+ health on all my toons. 14 weapon mastery really seems fine to me (I play my warrior in PvP too, so don't really bother with another helm though I guess I could...)
Squishy ftw
Btw, I got a Minor headpiece for HM and a Sup for NM 
Darkpower Alchemist
My warriors use sup runes regularly, and I never have any major problems with the -75hp, yet, if you're GvG team is built to stand up for the VoD endfight, then you must be prepared for the eventuality that you might have taken some DP during the fight, and that is when the 75hp matters.
Issac
Pve=sup
pvp=sup
I can do some major damage, I guess its just how I have my builds set up lol. SO I'm always using 16
pvp=sup
I can do some major damage, I guess its just how I have my builds set up lol. SO I'm always using 16
RotteN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
Ah, so in PvP, warriors are now considered threatening enough to actually target first?
you're kidding right ? warriors have always been one of the biggest threads on the battlefield. In the early days, it was believed however that due to their high armor they weren't the best of targets. But as players got better and the game evolved warriors became a target just like anything else.
Back when armor swapping was possible i had 9 helmets (minor, superior and lieutenant's for all 3 weapons) aswell as energy and HP armor sets. However, the moment it got disabled, i've been running 14 weapon mastery all the time. Stuff still dies, and at least i might just survive a NPC ranger spike at VoD more often :P
Back when armor swapping was possible i had 9 helmets (minor, superior and lieutenant's for all 3 weapons) aswell as energy and HP armor sets. However, the moment it got disabled, i've been running 14 weapon mastery all the time. Stuff still dies, and at least i might just survive a NPC ranger spike at VoD more often :P
glountz
I would add for Yukito that Warriors are quite spikable-when in Frenzy. A frenzied warriors caught off-guard is simply ugly. One tactic we used when playing a dom mesmer in PvP was to watch the warrior, waited frenzy, and if possible our own spike to have monks busy, then used Energy burn-Shatter enchant ont the warrior. Energy burn caused 160 damage, the opponent monks protted the spiked warrior with PS or Spirit bond, which was shattered for an additionnal 212 damage. With some help from my guildies and some lack of reactions from the warriors, it meant a dead warr if he did have a sup rune.
Issue in PvP is that nowadays, spiking a warrior under frenzy or an overextended warrior happens a lot. This is quite easy to do when you manage to guess when they will unleash their spike, just retreating at this moment often results in an overextended frenzied warrior.
So warriors needs to wear only minors to sustain damage when overextending.
Issue in PvP is that nowadays, spiking a warrior under frenzy or an overextended warrior happens a lot. This is quite easy to do when you manage to guess when they will unleash their spike, just retreating at this moment often results in an overextended frenzied warrior.
So warriors needs to wear only minors to sustain damage when overextending.
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
I would add for Yukito that Warriors are quite spikable-when in Frenzy. A frenzied warriors caught off-guard is simply ugly. One tactic we used when playing a dom mesmer in PvP was to watch the warrior, waited frenzy, and if possible our own spike to have monks busy, then used Energy burn-Shatter enchant ont the warrior. Energy burn caused 160 damage, the opponent monks protted the spiked warrior with PS or Spirit bond, which was shattered for an additionnal 212 damage. With some help from my guildies and some lack of reactions from the warriors, it meant a dead warr if he did have a sup rune.
Issue in PvP is that nowadays, spiking a warrior under frenzy or an overextended warrior happens a lot. This is quite easy to do when you manage to guess when they will unleash their spike, just retreating at this moment often results in an overextended frenzied warrior.
So warriors needs to wear only minors to sustain damage when overextending. Ah, I try not to overextend unless I'm 90% certain one more hit would drop my target... ^_^
Issue in PvP is that nowadays, spiking a warrior under frenzy or an overextended warrior happens a lot. This is quite easy to do when you manage to guess when they will unleash their spike, just retreating at this moment often results in an overextended frenzied warrior.
So warriors needs to wear only minors to sustain damage when overextending. Ah, I try not to overextend unless I'm 90% certain one more hit would drop my target... ^_^
Shadowfox1125
I still use the 16 wep standard, as I guess I'm an "old" GW player now..
but minors in organized PvP, sometimes I run 16 in TA, AB, or CM just for fun.
but minors in organized PvP, sometimes I run 16 in TA, AB, or CM just for fun.