Stealth update at the rare mat trader:
Couple of interesting things about this:
1) Implemented without a patch. If you've had Onyx, you know that it was disabled at the trader (he'd only buy it at 250 and wouldn't sell it). I'd have thought a patch would have been required in order to make a change @ global traders. Oops.
2) Remember the trader reset waaaay back in the Stone Age, where everything reset to 100 gold? Clearly ANet has implemented the ability to introduce items at a price they set. Unless you seriously think that it ran up to 11k in the two hours between when I checked it earlier in the day and now.
He's usually sold out of it; feel free to speculate on the resulting likely direction of Onyx prices. Keep in mind that it takes a while for a dramatic price rise; it took several days for trader prices to settle out during the full trader reset.
EDIT: That pic was waaaaay too large; what was I thinking?
Stealth update - Onyx @ Rare Mat Trader
Martin Alvito
Ravensky
They're based on supply and demand. If no one sells to the trader, they have none to sell.
Martin Alvito
I don't think you understand. If you offered one to the trader (as recently as yesterday) he offered 250 for it. Suddenly, he offers 8.5k? Further, I have never previously observed Onyx for sale at the trader (and I look at him pretty often). There was definitely a server-side update.
Also, I can *assure* you that he spawns new items every so often. Unless you want to believe that during the trader reset, people were selling, say, Sup Vigors worth 80k on the open market to the trader for 25 gold. I choose to believe that no one that plays this game is quite *that* dumb.
Also, I can *assure* you that he spawns new items every so often. Unless you want to believe that during the trader reset, people were selling, say, Sup Vigors worth 80k on the open market to the trader for 25 gold. I choose to believe that no one that plays this game is quite *that* dumb.
Ravensky
I think they sold to the trader for 250g because they had none to base their price off of, so it went by the default price on them. Now that the trader has some, it's basing the prices off of how many are left in stock (I think)
Martin Alvito
Does it strike you as more than a little coincidental that the price (based on what, in your hypothesized mechanism, would be very limited data) apparently instantly converged upon the open-market price of the item?
Captain Arne Is PRO
Holy shit this place should be renamed (again) to the Conspiracy Theory Forum.
Loviatar
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finally enough were sold to the trader so he has stock which reaches market very fast.
example
when the rush for rubys hit he was out of stock until enough were sold to get them and a price.
they were not really out of stock they were simply being sold instantly.
i bought several while he was out of stock by simply camping him and hitting get a price until for a moment one was available
no price fixing no so called stealth update
Martin Alvito
*sigh*
A simple set of deductions that follow logically from observations does not constitute a conspiracy theory. Would you explain this outcome in some other way that's not a "conspiracy theory"?
A simple set of deductions that follow logically from observations does not constitute a conspiracy theory. Would you explain this outcome in some other way that's not a "conspiracy theory"?
Loviatar
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makosi
I saw Onyx prices at 11k which is about the price players were buying/selling from personal observations. I see no problems that will come of this whether it is a stealth update or not.
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
they could not change it without an update.
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
finally enough were sold to the trader so he has stock which reaches market very fast.
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
when the rush for rubys hit he was out of stock until enough were sold to get them and a price.
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When the price reset occurred two years ago, all items that were previously active at the trader were available (contingent on supply). I was able to buy a couple of runes I could not have afforded at that time at well below market prices in this fashion.
If the item CAN be sold at the trader, it is available at the trader (contingent upon supply, of course); given that I look at the trader many times during a play session, if it had been available I'd have observed an instance.
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
i thought i did and gave a real personal example
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CyberMesh0
Definitely interesting... since it goes out of stock JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, and took a while to get into the trader JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE.
Conspiracy theories ftl.
Conspiracy theories ftl.
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by CyberMesh0
Definitely interesting... since it goes out of stock JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, and took a while to get into the trader JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE.
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2) As in above posts, explain instant convergence on open-market price. Shouldn't happen.
Please note that I'm not saying that ANet introducing it at market price is a BAD thing (if you were around for the trader reset, a communist trader is seriously ftl).
Loviatar
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very easy on that one.
the code to remove them is part of the event build no further build required
if they are out that is the starting point
the trader listed them as out of stock therefore relevant
i missed it by 16 lousey minutes
and that is my main point.
i said *camped* the guy
we are talking major clickfest camping not once every few minutes but as fast as you can sustained clickfest.
he was out of stock until i happened to be the lucky clicker that goy a price and the ruby than he was out of stock for 8 minutes straight until i got lucky again.
4 hours apart as an experiment for 15 minutes straight resulted in 1 ruby/0 rubys/2 rubys/1 ruby/0 rubys.
anybody checking at random several times a session probably would have gotten an OOS every time
i sent a PM to a mod at that time as well as mentioning it here
so it did happen
few sellers lots of would be buyers it adds up
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Originally Posted by Martin Alvito
Not true. Explain how NPCs go away at the end of special events without an update, if this is accurate.
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the code to remove them is part of the event build no further build required
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| At 250 gold? To the rare mat trader and not the merch (who pays the same price)? I find this highly unlikely. |
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| Rubies were already active at the trader and had been for months. Different issue entirely. |
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| When the price reset occurred two years ago, all items that were previously active at the trader were available (contingent on supply). I was able to buy a couple of runes I could not have afforded at that time at well below market prices in this fashion. |
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| If the item CAN be sold at the trader, it is available at the trader (contingent upon supply, of course); given that I look at the trader many times during a play session, if it had been available I'd have observed an instance. |
i said *camped* the guy
we are talking major clickfest camping not once every few minutes but as fast as you can sustained clickfest.
he was out of stock until i happened to be the lucky clicker that goy a price and the ruby than he was out of stock for 8 minutes straight until i got lucky again.
4 hours apart as an experiment for 15 minutes straight resulted in 1 ruby/0 rubys/2 rubys/1 ruby/0 rubys.
anybody checking at random several times a session probably would have gotten an OOS every time
i sent a PM to a mod at that time as well as mentioning it here
so it did happen
few sellers lots of would be buyers it adds up
Martin Alvito
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
if they are out that is the starting point
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This price should have moved in the event that people were actually selling to the trader. It did not.
These prices DID move in your rubies case, as well as for other phenomena such as the runes during the trader reset. I am aware of the necessity for hardcore clickfest under circumstances of scarce supply; however, the lack of price movement suggests that your scenario was not operative here.
I conclude that Onyx was not active at the trader.
KANE OG
Anyone that believes anet can't set a fixed price on anything at the merchant/materials trader, etc. is an idiot.
KANE
KANE
Tarus From Taros
I don't really think this is debatable, Martin is right. If this was simply due to mass amount's of people selling at 250g and buying right away there would be people on here noting that there was a steady incline when available via text or SS, there wouldn't have been that dramatic of a price jump in such a short amount of time.
I'm not saying that Supply and demand doesn't exist for trader prices, it's just part of the equation (albeit a large part). Arenanet can change the value of the NPC's anyway they like.
I don't see how changing the prices of an item or even Anet adding some to the market via traders would require an update. I think it's very possible for them to do that without us needing an update of the dat.
I'm not saying that Supply and demand doesn't exist for trader prices, it's just part of the equation (albeit a large part). Arenanet can change the value of the NPC's anyway they like.
I don't see how changing the prices of an item or even Anet adding some to the market via traders would require an update. I think it's very possible for them to do that without us needing an update of the dat.
Croco Clouds
No stock for now, maybe i'll try later
Shantel Span
Whats crazy is, I bought one of those from the Rare Material trader several months before the release of EotN...and at that time the trader was wanting to buy it back for me for a couple k, not 250g.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10072012
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10072012
Foe
aww how cute..they think its player ran economy. Sry im troll now i think
stiffler
Last night I saw 1 at the trader for 9.5k, it sold before I got the chance to buy it.
Longasc
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Originally Posted by Tarus From Taros
I don't really think this is debatable, Martin is right. If this was simply due to mass amount's of people selling at 250g and buying right away there would be people on here noting that there was a steady incline when available via text or SS, there wouldn't have been that dramatic of a price jump in such a short amount of time.
I'm not saying that Supply and demand doesn't exist for trader prices, it's just part of the equation (albeit a large part). Arenanet can change the value of the NPC's anyway they like. I don't see how changing the prices of an item or even Anet adding some to the market via traders would require an update. I think it's very possible for them to do that without us needing an update of the dat. |
I think they did this smart. They were waiting for the players to set an acceptable average price and introduced the item with a slightly higher trader price at the material trader.
VinnyRidira
I sold 2 last night, the first at 8.5 and the second at 8. I cannot complain at the 16.5k and this allowed me to get the rest of my necro's kurzick armour.
Mordakai
Has the price gone up since then?
stiffler
I mostly see WTB's @ 10k atm, I see some WTS' @ 12k though.
Government Flu
Does someone know why after you request a quote it reads "No stock available at this time, sorry for the inconvenience" and then the material itself disappears from the rare trader list until you log back in?
HawkofStorms
Because Government, the supply for this item is low (not many are selling to the trader, most sell to players for more money). When you try to buy it, somebody else has beaten you to it. Remember that there are ~200k players on GW at any given time.
And good grief @ the OP. This is NORMAL. Want examples? Fine... this has happened before with the introcudtion of the following items:
FoW Scrolls
Deep Scrolls
UW Scrolls
Urgoz Scrolls
Diamonds
White Dye
Brown Dye
ALL Insignias
Sigils
And I'm pretty sure I've left something out. /end conspiracy theory. Learn about the game history before posting your own thoery. And maybe study some economics.
And good grief @ the OP. This is NORMAL. Want examples? Fine... this has happened before with the introcudtion of the following items:
FoW Scrolls
Deep Scrolls
UW Scrolls
Urgoz Scrolls
Diamonds
White Dye
Brown Dye
ALL Insignias
Sigils
And I'm pretty sure I've left something out. /end conspiracy theory. Learn about the game history before posting your own thoery. And maybe study some economics.
lakatz
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Originally Posted by Loviatar
...he was out of stock until i happened to be the lucky clicker that goy a price and the ruby than he was out of stock for 8 minutes straight until i got lucky again...
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And I've watched the quote go up right in the middle of buying a bulk of something. A "supply and demand algorithm"?
Martin...
There're 'timers' built into events. Haven't you ever been in the games at Shea Jing when the clock strikes midnight, and the games suddenly stop and some of the NPC disappear? I have.
warren_kn
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Originally Posted by lakatz
I first noticed this phenomenon with dye right after an event where a dyable mask was distributed. I don't remember what color, but it was missing from the window when I started buying, then it reappeared, then it showed out of stock and then was availabe, etc.
And I've watched the quote go up right in the middle of buying a bulk of something. A "supply and demand algorithm"? Martin... There're 'timers' built into events. Haven't you ever been in the games at Shea Jing when the clock strikes midnight, and the games suddenly stop and some of the NPC disappear? I have. |