Rainbow Phoenix discussion (Title idea included)

Allright let me start off by saying I'm starting this topic here due to the GWO forums being too filled with flamewars and people not even listening, and me being optimistic that the guru forums can provide a bit better.

Now I'm hoping a logical discussion on the matter of the rainbow phoenix and it's current requirements can be had here, with pros and cons from all sides/ input from the community, and lack of random flame wars and "omg u want stuff free noob" posts

I'll start by linking a topic on GWO for those who visit there and would like a look at how badly it turned out there: http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...d.php?t=463909

Ok now let me try to explain why me and many other players feel that the rainbow phoenix IS special and DOES need to be earned, yet is a very bad choice for a reward for People Know Me title (ok not technically a reward, but since it's required it's practically a reward)

Now without getting into actual numbers, since noone but ANET would have them anyways, let's look at it this way: A small portion of all gw players are ranger/X or X/Ranger, now a small portion of that actively play beastmaster rangers, a smaller portion still have the People Know Me title or higher, a fraction of those have GW:EN, yet another fraction of those are actually willing to part with their current pet for the rainbow phoenix.

What does this mean? It means this reward does not benefit hardly anyone, the % of people who could get and actually use the rainbow phoenix is insanely small. We all know it's "special" but who is honestly going to put Charm Animal on their skillbar just to bring a pet along to show off in 99% of cases? As I've heard it said, this is sorta like rewarding a customized bow for maxing out 10 titles on 1 character, it is a very specific reward for something any class combo could get.

Now the point is not to say the Rainbow Phoenix should not be earned, or that there should not be a reward for People Know Me (though honestly displaying a title called that should be reward enough in my personal opinion).
I as well as others out there believe that a ranger pet is just simply the wrong reward for this, and should fall in place with something actually related to a pet-using ranger.

Here is a very basic concept that needs tweaking, admittedly, but would make more logical sense.

Create a new title track, for the purpose of this example we'll call this the Tamer title track. The Tamer title track would be sorta like Sunspear but for dedicated beastmasters and work as follows. For every level your pet(s) gain, you gain 1 point towards the title, and when you trade in a pet, you gain X amount of bonus points towards the title track IF the pet is level 20 when traded in (more on this very shortly).

The max rank could be Legendary Tamer for example, and the # of points required to max the track out, or even for each rank of it or # of ranks in the title track needs work, and could require a fair bit of effort to satisfy the grindhappy people out there. Now to explain the bonus points...

The reasoning behind bonus points would be that you'd give enough bonus points to stop people from just taming a level 5 pet, getting it to 10, then turning it in (more effort into leveling each pet). The reasoning behind the points being gained on leveling is so you dont just tame a level 20 pet and auto gain 20 points. now this still leaves one slight problem which I shall now fix. Trading in pets that start at level 15 or higher would not count towards bonus points, to prevent repeated taming of black moa.

Perhaps you could make the bonus points equal to the amount of levels you gained with that pet, for example you tame a level 5 pet, get it to 20, and trade it in, you'd get 15 + 15 points, you get a level 15 elder wolf or whatever in shiverpeaks, level it to 20 and trade it in, you gain 5 + 5 points.

I'd love to see some more ideas from the community on rewards for titles, ways to fix the current rainbow phoenix arguements, etc.

*note this also solves the problem of rangers just death-leveling to get points as well*

/neither signed nor notsigned

I agree with your logic, this is not the right reward for that rank. However, I don't appreciate the situation enough to say whether I agree with your solution.

I don't think this is the right track to have a phoenix on. And it is starting to tick me off being that I have played since prophecies release and have yet to max out a single title.

I didnt even bother reading the post, PKM is easily attainable. If you even play the game remotely often you should have this title on a pve character.

Well, Unless your like some people and have 6 level 20 charachters, and play them all just as much as eachother.

I have People Know Me, but what you said, sir, is pretty misleading. PKM may be "easy" to get in the sense that there are plenty of titles you can max for it, but consider how long it can take to max those titles...consider how much there is to do in Guild Wars, how potentially costly it can be (eg Sweet Tooth, Skill Hunter), and people enjoy playing different professions...for those people who work, or have to do things outside of the game and maybe only get 3-5 hours in the evening to play, gaining People Know Me does take a long time.

I'm confused why the phoenix is a randon gift for PKM, but I don't think it should be removed in favour of something else. Time for my Ele to go E/R and play Beastmaster. Please don't tell me off for that

Hmm ... PKM is neither hard nor expensive. Titles that you can max with little effort and zero gold are:

Lightbringer
Sunspear
Protector (3 titles)
Cartographer (4 titles)

After completing the above you have 9 maxed titles and certainly enough gold to max one of the skill hunter titles and there you have your PKM.

IVI is not expensive either if you go the Guardian/Vanquish way but a bit more demanding, after that you'll really have to start burning money to make some progress.

I would have liked it if each rank on the KoaBD track unlocked a different celestial pet: deer for KoaBD, wolf for PKM, tiger for IVI, phoenix for IHMLBB ... (dragon for GWAMM? ) and to satisfy the PvP side, an alternative way to unlock those would've been through the hero title track, corresponding with fame emotes.

I'm now using the combo "charm animal+spitefull spirit" instead of "arcane echo + spitefull spirit". The damage is slightly less satisfying, but it looks great on the screen.

Ah you're using it on a N/R...I'm E/R..I'm thinking Thunderclap + Bestial Mauling? LOL

A way to make pets useful to anybody who's not a beastmaster:

* pack mentality brings synergy: you can easily fit 4 Charm Animals and one Revive Animal into a H+H team - do not take Comfort Animal
* pets give monsters something else to gnaw than your party
* pets are a good source of corpses, especially in places that naturally lack those
* giving Olias Death Nova wrings one additional bit of usefulness out of your pets
* after raising minions revive pets, lather, rinse, repeat

There's a humorous side in getting monsters stomped by a suicidal flock of flamingoes, as well

I tend to agree with the OP. GW rewards players who spend all of their time on only one char. perhaps have the pheonix appear based on the number of maxed titles on your account instead?

The only single problem I see about the phoenix is that you cannot add it to the monument.

Allrighty, now while it is true you could use the pets as fodder/death nova/minion stuff, hardly anyone would do that anyways. Minions are quite easy enough to get going without "wasting" a skill slot on charm animal (and it's hard for me to say wasting considering pet ranger is the only ranger I play, I love pets).

As for my title track idea, I'd like to reiterate that it was a basic example not 100% thought out for anyone curious, and the point is that the reward should match the title track.

Right now it's a vanity item that can only appeal to a tiny tiny %, yet there's one flaw with the vanity item aspect too, you cannot have a ranger pet in town. Most anyone looking to show off would do so in town where people are at. I'm not saying people don't show off outside of town at all, but once again, a tiny tiny % of people do this, most of us are too busy actually playing the game to do that outside of town.

I for one want the rainbow phoenix to be just as hard to obtain, in terms of effort put into getting one, yet the concept of my title track would allow the people who actually want it and are dedicated to using ranger pets to be able to get one, and if you just want it to show off there's still crazy grinding to be done for a title track you can wear.

The real arguement could very well be that some people want thier title track to say one thing instead of another when displayed. For example a person would rather have People Know Me displayed with a rainbow phoenix at thier side over having something like Legendary Tamer in the same situation.

Now back to the vanity items in town and KoaBD title track, this title track is very obviously meant to attract attention, and can obviously be displayed in town. Even the names of the ranks of this title are references to a movie about a guy who likes attention. Now wouldn't a more fair reward for something like that, something any build/profession could use equally well yet still be a vanity item, be the Chaos Gloves from GW:EN or something of the sort?

Once again I've seen many people say I'm just wanting the phoenix for free with no work, and that is far from the truth. What my title track lacks is hard numbers but the basic idea is that it would require much effort in it as well, including maxing out the title, not just hitting rank 2 in it or something.

The only thing really missing is the hard numbers for each rank and how many ranks total this track would have. Yes I am a beastmaster ranger and yes I do want a rainbow phoenix, and no this doesn't limit the phoenix to rangers only anymore than it already is since as it is now it still requires you to go R/X or X/R to tame one.

Thanks to all who have taken the time to read my postings and who have contributed to this topic (on either side of the arguement) without breaking out into flaming.

*A note, it was brought up to me that a dedicated beastmater ranger would not want to get rid of their current pet to work on this title track, regardless of the rainbow phoenix reward. To compensate for that let's say hypothetically that this title track were added, and that pets were made to still gain exp after 20 as we do (sans skill point gains they cant use)

Instead of gaining skill points, every "level" beyond 20 would reward more points to the title track, so those rangers who simply wish to work towards the goal of maxing that title track out but who do not want the rainbow phoenix nor any other pet could still do so.

I think the real issue is not the bird exactly, but it's indictive of a growing problem that can be stopped right now before any potential harm is done, that problem being that titles are becoming more than just for display, and giving rewards that make no logical sense for those actual title tracks. If anet replaced the phoenix now with a plain warthog and the warthogs with the phoenix, I'd make the same arguement.

I present you with. http://youtube.com/watch?v=znXGchXre_A

Well it is what is. I'm pretty much a dedicated beastmaster (B/P) Although I play other builds, pet builds are definitely my favorite. And, like you say, I am attached to my stalker, Muffin. No other pet has been anywhere near a temptation to trade in my Muffin. I've always hooked up any other pets I like with my heroes rather than trade in my Muffin... until the absolutely beautiful Rainbow Phoenix turned up in my Hall of Monuments. Uggghhh.... arrggghhhh.... gaagghhhh... I have to make a decision?



Well I won't give up my Muffin now, but eventually... not until GW2 is released hopefully... I will make a decision. In the meantime I will enjoy her whenever I go to my H0M.

I was thinking maby the rainbow phoenix should'nt be for PKM. Since it is the HOM I think you should be able to get it for getting 30 different things shown on the monument(the ones at the honor,valor and resilience should count as 1 point and The minipets 1 point for every 2 and hero's and pets should be 1 point for every 2 shown).

All in all I think it should be a prize for filling up your Hall alot rather then filling up just the honor section.

I love the looks of the Rainbow Phoenix but since I'm E/D I don't really have an use for it. I can't afford to switch to E/R because ranger has insufficient synergy with my primary profession and a pet would take too much precious space on my skill bar.

Hm, I've got an idea, what about allowing the rank 2 KoaBD characters to get a Rainbow Phoenix or a customized miniature Rainbow Phoenix?

[QUOTE=Hyper.nl]I love the looks of the Rainbow Phoenix but since I'm E/D I don't really have an use for it. I can't afford to switch to E/R because ranger has insufficient synergy with my primary profession and a pet would take too much precious space on my skill bar./QUOTE] You can change your secondary profession as much as you want. That's why almost all of my characters have their own pet, even though most aren't secondary Rangers.

[QUOTE=Curse You]Sure, but what use has it to have a charmed pet when you haven't equipped it?? ;-)

You must be new here...

I'd have no problem if the criteria for obtaining it were account-wide. This way, it's such a waste, that until now, I didn't even know Rainbow Phoenix exists.

And since the character I got stuck with for titles is monk, this matters to me as little as last year's snow.

RIP "Skill over time spent".

personally, I'd like to see the requirements changed. Instead of having to max 10 title tracks, instead, make it so, you have to beat prophecies, factions, nightfall, and eye of the north, obtain a imperial Phoenix as your pet from Factions, and maybe have a new mob a celestial phoenix (similar to the one you deal with in the factions mission reaching to the stars or whatever).

And that Celestial Phoenix would give you a quest, dunno, make it long, but not overly difficult, from there, after you complete it, the Rainbow Phoenix would appear in HoM and you'd have to get rid of the imperial phoenix to charm it and what not.

Also about the quest idea, make it so , it spans all campigns. But don't make it a elite quest, or anything.

Better yet, make the quest require the imperial phoenix of course, it would be given by a celestial phoenix like i stated, but make it an ascention quest for the imperial phoenix to become a rainbow phoenix. That way, you still need to level your imperial phoneix to 20, beat all campigns, and do the quest given out by the celestial phoenix.

I think that would be fair enough for a pet that A. doesn't go into towns. B. only shows up outside with that specific skill. and C. It still requires a good amount of work.

I'll be honest, i don't want to max out title tracks, i don't have the luxary of time to do it in.

As someone else said, make it so people know me, gives a miniature rainbow phoenix to display in towns, that would be better.

"little effort". that's hilarious. Not everyone is 15 and plays videogames all day. I'd like to see how many hours you have to dump into all that. Some people have jobs.

If you want to say that the Phoenix should be for 1337 ppl, who spend hours running around maps & killing monsters to get titles, fine. But don't insult people's intelligence by saying it requires "little effort". 50+ hours of gameplay is not "little effort".

Agreed. Just because it's easy for some, doesn't mean it's easy for all. Some people play this game for hours upon hours in a single sitting (myself). But others have JOBS and others have responsibilities to take care of instead of playing a game all day. On another note it took me about 50 hours to get Legendary Survivor so I'm pretty sure it would take much longer than that to get all the titles mentioned. They may not cost anything, but they're very time consuming.

Also. What if they were to just make the Rainbow Phoenix a pet that would follow you around no matter what? And it could still attack and such, but unless you tamed it, it would only attack in PvE? That way non-rangers would still be able to be proud of it.

Or saying that a buncha people who happen to have PKM are 15 and play all day. I'm a 22-year-old married student, and I've got PKM on my main char. I did play a lot when I didn't have classes this summer .

However, I got the phoenix on my necromancer (my main) and I use it . I play N/R b/p for ToPK groups and I really like it. Sure a more... useful reward would have been nice, but I'm not complaining with the Rainbow Phoenix either; it's nice.

How about just letting you give the phoenix to a hero? That way (theoretically) everyone can use it.

The first tier, "Kind of a Big Deal" sounds reasonable to me. Hardcore PvE players aren't losing their Rainbow Pheonix, and Casual PvE players aren't overwhelmed with having to max 10 titles. Some may say you're losing the rarity of it, but, glorification usually occurs only in towns and outpost where you can't see a pet.

Granted, 5 titles max still require effort from the person. If it's "easy" for you to obtain, you may be leaning more towards hardcore than casual, IMO, not that there's anything wrong with either way of playing.

Anywho, this would be a change I'm really rooting for, so let's keep this thread productive and leave the bashing on age groups/playing time/life habits/etc. at the Temple of Balthazar American District 1...

If your skills weren't disabled for forever when the pet dies, I'd actually use it. It's not like 1-2 slots on your skillbar is that vital in most PvE anyways :P

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword I didnt even bother reading the post

Then please refrain from commenting on it.

...I wonder when people stop caring about reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally little things like this.

It's a reward, you have to earn it, don't want to? Your loss. That's how it goes really.

Making things easier to get is not nice, just look at the gladiator title track...

Mmm-hmm ... I'm 40, married with kids and in a reasonably well-paid job. Getting PKM as I suggested might well take up to 200 hours of in-game time, but when you spread that over a course of a year it's far from playing all day round. I never said that you are supposed to get it overnight, and when compared to some real life tasks as writing a Ph.D., building your own house, or indeed raising three children (all at the same time, BTW), then it's a negligible effort that one can do just for the fun of it.

I wish I got 3-5 hours in the evening to play Guild Wars (or any game).

But this thread isn't really about wanting or not wanting the Pheonix, it's discussing the fact that getting a tameable animal at KoaBD rank 2 is only properly usable by a few professions. Now, getting such a reward is nice, but perhaps it should be a more appropriate reward?

For instance, I might want a Rainbow Phoenix on my beastmaster. He currently has no maxed titles. My Ele is the only character I am prepared to title grind on. So...how useful is a tameable pet likely to be for her?

One solution to this problem would be to allow heroes to be able to tame the phoenix, so that characters who don't want to be R/X or X/R can make use of it. Another solution would be to have a different reward depending on the Primary profession of the character with the title. Perhaps an alternative solution would be to do as Some Guru Named Kai suggests, and have the phoenix available at Rank 1 of KoaBD, which means it's more readily obtainable across multiple characters. Personally I wouldn't be in favour of the latter, like the OP, I think it should be there for people who have put a little more effort into gaining the title, but perhaps the "reward" for such an act should be re-considered.

Well there are things I should be doing, I just choose to ignore them.

*puts his hand up*

Im an ele/ranger at the minute and I got my rainbow pheonix to 20 a few weeks ago and I love it. I know eles arent great with pets, but I love it.

I like taking it into FA and having ppl go "Oooooo".

I agree a pet isnt a 100% usefull reward, but what else could they give us for being PKM? Not alot!

Maybe add more pets for higher ranks in th KOABD title.