Norn/Asura/Ebon Vanguard/Dwarf title-skills not exactly ranger/paragon friendly.

Pericles

Pericles

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2007

[GoD]

R/

I am deeply offended in the way that the GWEN title-track skills are anti-ranger and anti-paragon. These ranged attackers do not benefit of practically all the title-skills, for example: what does a ranger or paragon do with the asuran skills?, we don't have the energy for it as we're not casters and on the other side we can't use the dwarf/norn and even most vanguard skills because we're not a Melee-class. For example, i'll never use:

'great dwarf armor', 'ear bite', 'brawling headbut', 'low blow', ' a club of a...', 'dodge this', 'sneak attack' etc. there's too much to be named.

So all i want is some ranger/paragon friendly skills like deft strike, winds, and ebon vanguard sniper support because the way it is now, there's absolutely no point in grinding those titles when you're a ranger, i mean for vanguard tilte: 'Rebell Yell' , wtf?? i wish A-net knew that only two classes in the entire game use adrenaline.

So what do you guys think? Try to put yourself into the place of a ranger or paragon and then judge.

I'll add some skillssuggestions in the future.

EternalTempest

EternalTempest

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

United States

Dark Side Ofthe Moon [DSM]

E/

Core vs Expansion jobs.

Primary support is meant in the campaign the Expansion they showed up in.
They just give new skill in latter campaigns.

The pve only skills seem generic to support off "type". Aka mage type characters or melee type characters. I can see the overlap with the melee/support based jobs.

traiur

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

Feathermoore Clan

R/Mo

There are plenty of PvE skills that buff rangers. I personally have found my new favorite skill combinations that rely on my pve skills.

Just look as the dmg increase skills or any suport skills. Rangers and paragons fall into the support category so look for skills that increase their potency with secondary effects (like signet of infection after you use sniper support for example)

X Ice Man X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

England

So do you not think that the Extra Energy, Extra Health, Extra Dmg and Life Steal, and the Minor Soul Reaping and Adrenaline doesn't help Rangers or Paragons?

I know your mostly talking skills, but you are getting benefits from the title its self. So it isn't totally Anti Paragon/Ranger, it doesn't reduce your range or anything bad.

Yichi

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

Great Dwarf Weapon + Barrage = Godly

zknifeh

zknifeh

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kamadan

Acolites of Anguish [aOa]

A/

actually "Dodge This" is a shout and it DOES work with bow attacks rather nicely
say u use it on savage shot > it deals +dmg and it doesnt get blocked!
"Im the strongest" works well too
u should try those Norn shouts out because they work with any type of weapon

GloryFox

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

Wow... Just Wow...

The entire Norn line IS Paragon friendly thats 12 kick butt skills mostly shouts that paragons can take advantage of. So I have no idea where you come off with a complaint about skills being unfriendly to the paragon.

Here are some skills that a ranger can make use of.

Deldrimor
Breath of the Great Dwarf - Chain it with TNTF or other party heals.
Light of Deldrimor - anyone can use this.
Black Powder Mine (TRAP) - only rangers use traps.

Ebon
Deft Strike (Ranged Attack) - Paragons and Rangers
Ebon Battle Standard - any
Signet of Infection - use with toxcidity, and any Ranger skills that bleeds.
Tryptophan Signet - use as a touch ranger
Weakness TRAP - Rangers use traps
Winds - (BUGED) but the theory is it benefits you for ranged battles.

Norn
"Dodge This!" - any attack including bows and spears
"Finish Him!" - use it at range, best overall PvE skill in the game IMO.
"I Am The Strongest!" - any attack, including bows and spears
"I Am Unstoppable!" - grants the Ranger extra armor
"You Are All Weaklings!" - weakness on your opponents is good
"You Move Like a Dwarf!" - allows the ranger to kill Bison, how is that bad?
A Touch of Guile - Use as a touch Ranger
Feel No Pain - No 3 second delay for regen, stacks with Troll

Asuran
Asuran Scan - extra damage good
Mental Block - Use as a touch Ranger
Pain Inverter - extra damage good
Technobabble - Daze and damage is excellent great as an interrupter.

Sorry but as you can see the Ranger and Paragon have very friendly skills for their classes. Not to be rude but your ability to select skills that work is very limited in your thinking.

Benster

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

Order of the Twilight Mist

R/

Try Asura Scan with Glass Arrow, Brutal Weapon, Triple Shot and Forked Arrow. Your ranger will be a total monster.

That one isn't even outside the box.

I basically play only with my Ranger, and I use a number of the skills quite frequently.

Sylvia Lockheart

Sylvia Lockheart

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Sep 2007

GA

Death Eaters

R/Me

Well, my favorite class is Ranger, and I've really loved some of the Norn skills I've gotten.

"You Move Like A Dwarf!" - Have to move a little closer, but this faster knock-down replaced my Distracting Shot for a while. Doesn't interrupt everything, but it was a nice change.

Feel No Pain - Who doesn't like extra health regen? Between this one and Troll Unguent, my main Ranger toon stays alive pretty nicely. I'm actually looking forward to increasing my Norn title to get +5 regen eventually.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

plasmasword

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

Barrage+ "I am the Strongest" not enough for you?

Exoudeous

Exoudeous

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Honor Warriors

E/

I don't think you are trying hard enough to see the value in the skills. You need to see how they work with your otehr skills.

I think you mostly dont see them because you are looking only for range attacks, which is your first mistake.

wilebill

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

"You Move Like a Dwarf" a knockdown with Cripple, Ebon Assassin Support knocks out a mob healer really quick. Light of Deldrimmor, never go into a dungeon without it! And lots of others limited only by your imagination and your time. Too many new toys to play with!

The Norn Elite Raven Blessing can turn you into a Berserking monster!

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pericles
tilte: 'Rebell Yell' , wtf?? i wish A-net knew that only two classes in the entire game use adrenaline.

So what do you guys think? Try to put yourself into the place of a ranger or paragon and then judge. Well, Anet does know, that paragons are one of the professions that uses adrenaline. They also use energy, so rebel yell is made for paragons.

I do put myself in paragon. I call it [email protected], since it's so absurdly overpowered it allows you to run through HM missions without a second's pause. And that's before GW:EN. After it, it's just pointless, they are just godly.

Rangers? Well... Every PUG is looking for rangers, mostly instead of nukers. That should say something.

lordpwn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

R/

Try using "I Am The Strongest!", Brutal Weapon and a straight damage-increasing preparation like Glass Arrows, then put Asuran Scan on your target and hit it with high-damage attacks like Sloth Hunter's Shot or Point Blank Shot.

Killed the Doppleganger in four hits (Normal Mode). Would probably take only 3 with Triple Shot.

samifly

samifly

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Girl Power [GP]

Mo/Me

The PvE skills from EoTN are not helpful to monks rather than anti ranger or paragon. I can see alot of uses for say the traps and shouts for those classes There are only like 2 or 3 spells that are remotely useful to a monk

SlippyJack

SlippyJack

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pericles
I am deeply offended in the way that the GWEN title-track skills are anti-ranger and anti-paragon. LMAO...Deeply offended huh?

holababe

holababe

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2006

Goon Squad [LLJK]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by samifly
The PvE skills from EoTN are not helpful to monks rather than anti ranger or paragon. I can see alot of uses for say the traps and shouts for those classes There are only like 2 or 3 spells that are remotely useful to a monk QFT

I haven't found more than a few that are useful. Breath Of The Great Dwarf is the most useful, then Light of Deldrimor.

Stuff like Ear Bite is useless for monks.

semantic

semantic

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by lordpwn
Try using "I Am The Strongest!", Brutal Weapon and a straight damage-increasing preparation like Glass Arrows, then put Asuran Scan on your target and hit it with high-damage attacks like Sloth Hunter's Shot or Point Blank Shot.

Killed the Doppleganger in four hits (Normal Mode). Would probably take only 3 with Triple Shot. Don't even need attack skills. Just fire up Lightning Reflexes and turn 'pew pew pew' into 'PEW PEW PEW'. Hit stuff for 70-80dmg with Needling Shot ffs.

AlienFromBeyond

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by holababe
Stuff like Ear Bite is useless for monks. Ear Bite is useless PERIOD though.

Spazzer

Spazzer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

USA

Team Asshat [Hat]

Mo/E

Monk's a little difficult for using the pve skills with, but that doesn't bother me much. It just means that only Pain Inverter and "Finish Him!" ever make it onto my bar.

bilateralrope

bilateralrope

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

New Zealand

Xen Of Onslaught (Xen of the Pacific division)

Quote:
Originally Posted by X Ice Man X
So do you not think that the Extra Energy, Extra Health, Extra Dmg and Life Steal, and the Minor Soul Reaping and Adrenaline doesn't help Rangers or Paragons?

I know your mostly talking skills, but you are getting benefits from the title its self. So it isn't totally Anti Paragon/Ranger, it doesn't reduce your range or anything bad.
The direct benefits are only useful in specific situations:
Norn/Asura - You need to be in their territory and above ground for them to be useful. And they aren't really needed in the areas where they work (HM might change this).
Dwarf - If your not fighting destroyers it becomes useless.
Ebon Vanguard - This could be useful if your doing HM Ascalon

Quote:
Originally Posted by samifly
The PvE skills from EoTN are not helpful to monks rather than anti ranger or paragon. I can see alot of uses for say the traps and shouts for those classes There are only like 2 or 3 spells that are remotely useful to a monk Which PvE only skills are useful to monks ?
- Seed Of Life has become useless after its duration got cut.
- Selfless Spirit would be useful if you can keep the aggro on your tank. But if you team can do that, you shouldn't have enough trouble healing him to warrant this.
- Air of Superiority. I tried it, the energy bonus wasn't reliable enough to be useful and my PvE builds don't have energy issues.
- Great Dwarf Armor I've yet to play around with, but it should be useful unless we hit the armor bonus cap.

And the Blessing skills, two of which you have to use in the main campaign, really hurts the party if a monk uses them because while they are active, your down a monk (so you need to find another player just to stick the skill on him).

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

I am amazed at the OP... I really can't understand the complaint.

As a Ranger myself... I find LOADS of the new skills to be fully awesome. Seriously, the new skills I now use regularly (depending on what's required) are just too many to mention. My Ranger is VASTLY more versatile than before... and that's saying something.

My Ranger can now bring more to a team at once than ever before: Buffs for myself and the party... more damage, conditions and debuff against enemies... all this without using a second profession, attribute points or an Elite slot when using the Norn/Deldrimor/Ebon/Asura skills. I actually feel overpowered!

I never imagined my ranger would ever be able to apply Knock-Downs, AoE Weakness, or Deep Wound... with no secondary profession, and armed with a bow O_o

Folken ~oOo~

Folken ~oOo~

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

France

DEBS

R/

Here is some help :

Deldrimor skills are friendly to every class.

Norn skills are friendly to the following classes :
- Warrior
- Parangon
- Ranger

Vanguard skills are friendly to the following classes :
- Warrior
- Elementalist
- Ranger
- Parangon

Asura skills are friendly to the following classes :
- Necromancer
- Elementalist
- Mesmer

I dont play either Assassin nor Dervish, so i dont want to make a mistake about those classes. I someone could say something for them, it would be helpfull.

Rhys

Rhys

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2005

MA

D/W

I use "I am the strongest!" on my ranger to great effect.

Div

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

Melee classes get a lot out of adren skills, the ele gets a lot out of energy skills, and the rest have good utility skills.

But if anything, I'd have to argue that monk gets the worst out of it. There aren't any skills you'd use as a monk besides something like "I am the strongest!" to prevent KDs.

Crom The Pale

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

W/

The asuran skills are great for monks. Being able to sumon an ally that you can heal and deals dmg not to mention lasts much longer than the Vanguard sin.

Being able to cast and move 25%faster? that's nice to have.

Dwarf armor and weapon spells are a good way of buffing your party with out having to put any points in protection or smiting.

"I am the Strongest" is a very cheap and easy way to make your wand deal some nice dmg while your not healing party members.

There are lots of combos that work, just be creative. Sorry no "heal party for 100hp cost 5e recharge 2sec skills"....guess youll have to live without

Nadia Roark

Nadia Roark

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

Tomb Refugees [ToRe]

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by holymasamune
But if anything, I'd have to argue that monk gets the worst out of it. There aren't any skills you'd use as a monk besides something like "I am the strongest!" to prevent KDs. ..Unless you're smiting. I've been running "You Move Like A Dwarf" basically since I got it and I'm convinced it's the best snare in the game (for PvE at least). Throw in Bane Sig and SoJ and I have three knockdowns on my bar. It almost reminds me of the gale lock days...

But yeah, as far as basic healing/prot goes, the pve skills aren't where its at. I suspect it may have something to do with anet knowing how boring and tedious it is to heal or prot in pve

snikerz

snikerz

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Rt/A

OP has a point, but with regards to professions primary attribute is the problem.

here are skills for each profession that benefit it's primary attribute.

Paragon:
"By Urals Hammer!" - Dwarf Title Track
"Don't Trip" - Dwarf Title Track
Notes:
As you can see these skills arn't the best, but these skills actially complement Leadership as it's party wide, also the shouts from the Norn line don't help Leadership in anyway, so 10 energy shout with no energy gain(not even 1 energy back) isn't a great choice to help paragons, besides you only have choice for one spot as you would be a fool to pass up the Sunspear "Theres nothing to Fear" & Luxon/Kurzick "Save yourselves" skills.

Ranger:

Club of a 1000 Bears - Norn Title Track
Sneak Attack - Ebon Vangard Title Track
Winds - Ebon Vangard Title Track
Deft Strike - Ebon Vangard Title Track
Notes:
So...We got 2 melee attacks, a spirit that's bugged and some useless ranged attack(if only it was +addition dmg)

Monk:
None
Notes:
As Spazzer said, the monk primary attribute doesn't benefit any GW:EN PvE skills, which leaves them to take other skills like Air of Superiority or the kickass skill Pain Inverter.


The rest of the professions work well with many of the PvE only skills so I didn't mention them.

So anyway back to what the OP has said the Ranger is gimped because it only has a +3 energy regen, so using skills that Expertise doesn't reduce the cost of, is going to hurt the Rangers energy pool, not even the PvE traps(Black Powder Mine/Weakness) which were exclusive to Rangers help reduce the cost, however "I'm the Strongest" is worth taking with barrage, or Screaming Shot + Signet of Infection.
I bet the old Expertise would help with many of the PvE GW:EN skills.

Riot Narita

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by snikerz
So anyway back to what the OP has said the Ranger is gimped because it only has a +3 energy regen, so using skills that Expertise doesn't reduce the cost of, is going to hurt the Rangers energy pool This has long been true for most of a Ranger's secondary profession skills...

However, Read the Wind + Prepared Shot... I never run out of energy... plenty to fuel the non-Ranger PvE skills, and secondary Profession skills. Recharge rates are the only limiting factor (use Essence of Celerity and you can spam skills like crazy, and still not run out of energy!)

Prepared Shot uses up your Elite slot for energy management... but the extra damage and utility you can get from the PvE skills more than makes up for that in my opinion.

Arutima

Arutima

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

Canada

R/

And, the funniest thing is that that the pve traps ignore expertise totally.

As a ranger, when i use asuran/deldrimor skills (hurray for great dwarf weapon) , i usually use marksman wager or preparation shot to mitigate the cost of the skills

Ruby Lightheart

Ruby Lightheart

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Clan of Elders

R/Mo

umm..i dunno what you are looking at but as one whom has a ranger and paragon..i find no trouble finsing pve skills in GWEN that work well with them. You need to take another look at those skills hun.

Great Dwarf Armor and Weapon work FANTASTIC with Rangers and Paragons as does SnowStorm..its ike having an ele skill without spending any points in ele attributes.

soon as i get back from taking the kids to school i will post a list of pve skills that work well with rangers and paragons

R!ghteous Ind!gnation

R!ghteous Ind!gnation

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MistressYichi
Great Dwarf Weapon + Barrage = Godly Agreed... doenst help the already highly nerfed paragon... but GDW + B/P = wow.

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

If you think that PVE skills are weak, you are not abusing them properly.

Most of them are better than elites. But not because of them being obviously powerfull, but because they are imba when combined with other skills (think reason why 100b is elite.).

Not to mention that they give access to off-class abilities. Its like having tertiary class. Anyone can have nuke nuke,KD without activation time which also snares and have ultra backfire (pain inverter) on his skillbart while still being whatever/whatever.

Phantom Gun

Phantom Gun

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

Minion Bombing in Elona

The Drunken Dragons [DRNK]

Rt/N

"I am the Strongest" is a great skill for both professions in my opinion. I spent a good amount of time in GW:EN as a Rt/P until I got to slavers' exile, then I switched to to Rt/R for that particular area. The main thing with this skill is it doesn't run out until you use up all of the attacks. So you can set it up long before you enter a fight and save your energy.

If you are low on energy, and don't want to just use regular attacks until you recharge, it helps you still maintain decent damage output without having to use any skills.

"Feel no pain" is another good skill. It's non enchantment cheap health regen which is all I use it for since I don't carry ale with me everywhere for the max health increase.

That's pretty much the main pve only skills I use. There were situations where other ones came in handy. Like "you move like a dwarf" on Bison. I didn't want to spirit spam, so that skill helped me out alot.

I don't want to get to carried away though with what skills I liked because I was a rit main and have more energy. However even with low energy I just wanted to say that I am the strongest is a great skill. Well, at least I think so. I'm 10k from rank 7 norn then i'll get 4 hp regen with feel no pain, and I think it was +18 dmg for 7 attacks with I am the strongest.

Voltar

Voltar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

My dog let's me crash at her place.

POB

R/

Oic. I thought you were talking about expertise bonus (which rangers don't get on black powder mine at least...haven't tried the touch stuff). I'm all over "I am the Strongest!" with needling. "You move like a dwarf!" is great, especially when used on an atual dwarf (I wish they'd reply, "I am one, STFU!"). I've gotten some use out of pain inverter and would use the crap outta Asuran scan if it wasn't a 2 second cast time.

foo

foo

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Scars Meadows [SMS]

N/

On my ranger:

Giant Stomp + minions + Pain Inverter =



spending 10 energy for BHA on a caster boss is great, but spending 10 energy for Pain Inverter on an aoe boss could be even better.

Woop Shotty

Woop Shotty

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ruthless Mafia [RM]

Mo/

i use the dwarf armor enchantment spell on my monk in glint's challenge

i'd go bonkers for a skill that made your damage armor ignoring. oh, i would. i would and i would again.

and then i would put on some devel horns and kick some PvE butt even morer.

that would be pretty nice. i think your ranger and paragon would /dance /dance like it's the revolution.

tastegw

tastegw

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2005

SoCal

E/

i wish i could use some of those skill over on the pvp side,

"finish him" is superb and one of my favorite new skills.
pain inverter is very nice vs those pesky aoe freaks.

but i must keep dreaming.