Please help with this build: E/D "Demon of the Sand"

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Eh, you're flipping through GvG builds, so they don't really need a self heal. Those builds are meant to fight at the flagstand with a monk behind them.

Second, frenzy is good because it's fairly simple to cancel it with rush if you take damage (For PvP only).

Third, all three of those can perform a very nasty spike, and definitely outdamage your build.

Fourth, they all incorporate a snare/speed boost, so they'll be able to deal their damage much more consistently than your build.
I'll agree with you that the wiki rating system is useless, though, and that pretty much any fire build with echo/renewal/etc. is probably quite bad.

Those spikes have to be charged with a fairly high adrenaline cost first though. The one I posted has 2 ~120 damage attacks with a 3/4 cast and no aftercast, wouldn't that make a good spike? And you missed the 33% increased run speed on Flame Djinn's Haste.

I didn't think about the fact that you'd only have to keep frenzy up while you're not the target, but I'd think that'd make the damage pretty inconsistent.

Can anyone point me to some fire ele builds that actually are great? I could still use some examples so I can see what makes a good fire damage build.

I think as it is, the build can rush in with constant +33% speed, throw out ~240 damage immediately (~180 against warriors, ~120 against rangers), then keep up ~40DPS from ordinary attacks and an extra 20DPS from degen (~60 in total), and every 10 seconds they can throw out another instant ~240 easy. If that's accurate, it should be able to kill a 60AL target in ~6 seconds.
Sounds good on paper.. I need to try it out a lot more.

Basic Rodgorts spam.

Do you want good pve ele builds or good pvp ele builds.

Both would be nice, but I need PvP more.

Somehow I didn't notice until now that the build can use a shield, which I think it'd get more use out of than a focus most of the time. I can keep a focus too to switch to if I need it though.

alright you have equipment down for PvP! a sword and shield, now you just need a build.

That doesn't even make sense, why are you wasting your time making a bunch of pointless posts?

That's exactly what I have been doing! What do you think that whole post you quoted was about? That's HOW I found out that they use Frenzy.
I never said that build wasn't "subpar" either, I know it's not great. I threw that thing together in like 10 minutes, if it was finished, I'd be done with the thread now. I'm still posting here because I'm still trying to figure out how to improve it.

You just linked some of the finest builds for RA and TA out there...

Frenzy is a pvp warrior stable. Far better than flail or flurry. Of course most good warriors can cancel their stance in an instant.

Regen from mystic regen is an inferior healing stable for pvp, and being on the front lines will make you far more vulnerable to spikes and enchantment stripping. All those builds can somewhat survive without enchantments... Yours can't.

bonetti's defense? They'll just change targets or leave you to an ele.

Why would you pic a warrior or dervish profession if you can do what your doing now? Maybe because some professions are better at certain jobs than others? My mesmer doesn't try to summon a army of spirits, my dervish isn't the best archer. Your ele clearly is not the best front line fighter.

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He's not making useless posts, he is right. Your builds are horrible for PVP, they harm your team's chance of winning. Please be nice.

Who was that aimed at?

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I think I can fight off most of the "That build sucks and always will!" comments.

Let's look at the Shock Warrior: It has an average base damage of 17. The attacks in it's spike combo do +29, +38, and +20 damage along with a deep wound. That's 46, 55, and 37. 138 in total, 155 with Shock, 255 with DW.
Against 80AL - 41, 50, 32. 123/140/240
Against 100AL - 37, 46, 28. 111/128/228

If it did max base damage on every hit, that's 57, 66, 48. 171 in total, 188 with Shock, 288 with DW.
Against 80AL - 50, 59, 41. 150/167/267
Against 100AL - 43, 52, 34. 129/146/246

If EVERY hit was a critical, that's 85, 94, 76. 255 in total, 272 with Shock, 372 with DW.
Against 80AL - 71, 80, 62. 213/230/330
Against 100AL - 57, 66, 48. 171/188/288

All over the course of 4 seconds, usable once every 10 seconds, after 8 seconds the first time.

DPS - 17 (criticals make this much more complicated, but wiki claims that at roughly 12 mastery, you'll do around 21 DPS including them)

The spike from my E/W build:
127, 119. Total of 246, 305 with the sword attack (+59)
Against 80AL - 95, 89. 184/233
Against 100AL - 63, 59. 123/162

All over the course of 1.5 seconds, 2.5 with the sword attack, also usable every 10 seconds, immediately the first time but without the sword attack, and the non-sword part of the spike has the ability to hit multiple foes if it needs to.

DPS - 60



Between the two builds, mine has roughly 3 times more DPS between spikes, the spike itself is unleashed twice as fast as well as being able to be used an additional time right at the start of the fight.
The Axe build kicks my builds ass against really high AL targets when you include the deep wound, but the damage is actually slightly worse without it even against the high AL targets (of course the deep wound will always be there in the spike, but it's fairly easy to remove it after, negating the damage from it).
Against lower caster-type AL, my build totally beats the crap out of the damage from the axe build without the deep wound, and is still fairly better even with it.

The DPS of my build delivered between the spikes is hands down better than the axe build, by a pretty crazy amount.

My build has constant 86AL, an equal heal, and the ability to throw up Bonetti's defense before using the heal to negate the lower armor a decent portion of the time if you're going against a physical attacker.
The armor of the axe build is 116-126 vs physical, 96-106 vs elemental, or 116 vs both, and with Frenzy up, it's 60 vs physical and 40 vs elemental before modifiers (it's too complicated for me to figure that part out with Frenzy active).

The defense is better overall in the axe build than my build, but not by a drastic amount.

Utility-wise, the warrior gets a rez, +25% run speed, and a knockdown every 10 seconds.
Mine gets +33% run speed, which can be used to charge in initially. The warrior definitely wins out overall with utility.


So overall, mine has better damage, somewhat worse defense, and less utility.
The gap between the two builds doesn't seem significant to me. Since some parts are actually better, you could say that it's just a little more specialized than the warrior build. And this build isn't even finished, like I said, I threw it together in like 10 minutes.

Assuming 60AL.

And be aware that your scythe attacks will be at about 8-34 (and the 15% modifier) instead of the full amount, and have about 17.25 DPS instead; an Axe warrior at 14 weapon mastery would be doing around 23 DPS without Frenzy, and at 16 weapon mastery he would be doing around 26.66 DPS without Frenzy - that translates to approximately 34.5 DPS and 40 DPS, respectively, with Frenzy on. This is with no attack skills.

With 20.7~ average damage on your scythe, and assuming attack skills are recharging between spiking. Victorious Sweep has standard activation, while Mystic has 3/4 instead. Factoring that, over 16.25 seconds, you would be doing around 23.4 DPS.

For your spike...looking at your skills, the obvious spiking order would be Shockwave/Mystic/Victorious, or Victorious/Mystic. The total would be around 281.4 damage, over 3.25 seconds.

The Axe spike has Eviscerate-Executioner's-Agonizing, which at 14 weapon mastery would do around 165 without DW, and at 16 would do around 181, over 2.44 seconds under Frenzy (who wouldn't sanely do that?). That would be either around 265 or 281 over 2.44 seconds, if DW life loss is counted.

At 60 AL, you lose the pressure game horribly but have a slightly better spike.

When you go into 80 AL, it actually looks better for your build, since attack skills ignore armor, but still not good enough. The above DPS calculation at 16.25 seconds would become 20.7~ DPS instead, while the Axe warrior's, at 14 weapon mastery, would drop to around 16.6, and 16 would drop to 18.8, withotu Frenzy - with Frenzy, they're still at 24~ and 28.2 DPS respectively. So now you can actually outdamage an Axe warrior without an IAS.

Your spike at 80 AL would become 214~ damage, while the Axe at 14 mastery would have 137 damage without Deep Wound and 237 damage with, and the Axe at 16 mastery would have 155 damage without DW and 255 damage with.

At 100 AL, The DPS calculation would become 16.4 DPS over 16.25 seconds, and 14/16 Axe Mastery respectively would yield 1) 11.75 and 13.33, without Frenzy, and 2) 17.625 and 20~ with Frenzy. You still can't beat a Warrior with Frenzy.

Your spike at a 100 AL target would be 166.2 damage in total. At 14/16 weapon mastery, the Axe would spike for 1) 122/138 damage without DW, and 2) 222/238 with.

The warrior also does not need to recast his enchantments once every however long your enchantments last, and a Warrior isn't susceptible to caster hate, while the E/W is also affected by melee hate.

So no, your build is pretty subpar.



PS. Double damage is -40 AL.

EDIT: I was being a retard and posting wrong numbers early on, but they should be fixed now.

When someone has to post number calculations to defend a build without considering everything else in the team, then you know the build is going to fail.

But if you want to play the numbers game, assuming you use the fire sword thing for calculations, a target with half a brain switching to a +10 armor vs fire shield will greatly cut down your damage. It's extremely vulnerable to an RC as a heal since it removes burning+bleeding. The lack of deep wound makes it pretty bad when spiking down single 600ish health targets, which adds an extra 120 damage to the shock axe build. This build's c-space ability is also much weaker than a typical conjure shock warrior.

Your armor and speed boosts are also highly dependent on enchantments. With enchant removal pretty much everywhere in PvP, it destroys your armor/speed completely and turns it against you (in terms of damage or them gaining energy/health).

You're pretty much right on for utility. The shock axe is superior because it can rez and knock down targets, providing much greater pressure than raw DPS. It has a reliable speed boost that doesn't get stripped easily.

Conclusion? Your build does less damage, has much weaker spiking ability, has lower and more unreliable armor, and fails at utility.

P.S. Targets don't stand there to get beat on. Anyone with half a brain will kite and that's where knockdowns from bulls strike comes in.

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I should've listed the build I was talking about.
[skill]Star Burst[/skill] [skill]Barbarous Slice[/skill] [skill]Flame Djinn's Haste[/skill] [skill]Mark of Rodgort[/skill]--[skill]Flail[/skill]or[skill]Flurry[/skill]--[skill]Healing Signet[/skill] [skill]Bonetti's Defense[/skill] [skill]Conjure Flame[/skill]
You seemed to know which build I was talking about, Holy. But you're pretty confused on how it works.
None of the defense comes from actual enchantments, it all comes from the shield and the +10 while enchanted armor (which can be kept up by the easily reapplied Flame Djinn's Haste if Conjure Flame is stripped), and the damage is 36-43 per hit from the conjure (conjure warrior has 23-45 max), with an attack once every second from the attack speed boost, with an extra 20 from the -10 degeneration. And the only thing that'll stop the burning is hex removal, and in 15 seconds maximum, it can be reapplied.
Also, I'm pretty sure only an idiot would waste an enchantment removal on Flame Djinn's Haste on purpose, and even if they do, the reset is around half that of most enchant removers.
I haven't tested how much flurry reduces the dps by, but it shouldn't be a lot since it doesn't affect Conjure Flame.

If I removed Barbarous Slice I'd only lose 6 DPS, I could replace it with something like Savage Slash.

I /quit after I see flail/flurry. flurry kills your dps... And flail = they can run away. (condition removing is easy)

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