Does GW Need A New Loot System? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

LeetScythemaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

Dragonslayers of Ascalon

D/Mo

30 Sep 2007 at 02:02 - 1

I recently sent this e-mail to anet, ncsoft, guild wars, whatever you want to call it regarding the loot system. Please read it and post replies to let me know what you all think and maybe it will get something changed in the game.

I know I'm just going to receive an e-mail from you saying "drops are totally random" but I farmed the Domain of Fear today with an 8-man hench team and through that hour I only received like 10 drops and out of all the times I killed Flame of Fervor (at least 8 times), I only received 1(ONE!) drop. For a high-end end-game area like the Domains, I think players should be getting more than 10 or so drops every HOUR they play..that's just ridiculous. So I guess my question is, Is there any way the drop rate can be increased to better accommodate players? At this point, I feel like it is completely pointless to farm in the game because drop rates are so low and I know a lot of other players who feel the same way. Thank you for your time.

Again, thanks to everyone for checking this out and please leave posts with your thoughts!

dameros

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2006

New Zealand

Im Targeting The Ghostly (HeRo)

W/Mo

30 Sep 2007 at 02:46 - 2

You're not getting much loot because you have 7 henchman with you. Henchmen and heroes "steal" drops so you don't get them.

If you want more loot, do it solo or join a group of players.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

30 Sep 2007 at 03:04 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameros

You're not getting much loot because you have 7 henchman with you. Henchmen and heroes "steal" drops so you don't get them.

If you want more loot, do it solo or join a group of players.

If you're in a group of 8, the drops are the same. Henchies or real players - you get equal share regardless.

The "theft" that happens is just because drops aren't displayed.

Quote:

I feel like it is completely pointless to farm in the game because drop rates are so low and I know a lot of other players who feel the same way

Yes, the game discourages farming. Yes, farmers complain about it. The drops also differ between areas. So if you're going for quantity, find a different area.

If you're going for greens, think about it this way - how long does it take to get an epic drop in WoW? For you - not for entire party, where you need to participate on schedule over 6 months before you're assigned your share.

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

30 Sep 2007 at 03:05 - 4

Guild Wars's loot system is flawed because the concept of loot itself is flawed. The only "good" loot is one with a good skin; everything else sucks. Obviously, that's rarer than rare.

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

30 Sep 2007 at 03:07 - 5

I've always found those high end maps in Nightfall to be not very good sources of loot. Abaddon just doesn't pay his folk very well, it appears. Either he's stingy, or broke, or both.

Inniss

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Bendigo - Australia

Search For Gwen Foundation

E/Mo

30 Sep 2007 at 07:29 - 6

It'd be nice if we could see what the henchies were getting as a reassurance of the drop rates. Also a good excuse to throw the computer through the window when you see Gwen get that green or gold drop you really needed.

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

30 Sep 2007 at 07:36 - 7

If item mods were given more substance so that certain types were far more viable for certain playstyles, loot would be far more interesting.
Right now as Zinger said it's more about skins as there really aren't that many viable mods out of the slew available.
My mesmer main has been using the same FC staff with the same mods for every build he's every used since he's gotten it. There's just no incentive to change it unless I wanted a new skin.

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

30 Sep 2007 at 07:53 - 8

yeah, my ranger still uses the first max damage bow I ever got. I have acquired new bows because I like to collect weapons for my favorite characters, but that first bow works just as good as the new ones.

free_fall

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

30 Sep 2007 at 08:09 - 9

I must be on a roll because I got 7 greens this week - 3 Thurs, 2 Wed and 1 each Sun & Mon - and 3 last week iirc; this was with full party of H&H, though 2 came on runs with 1 other RP along.

I sometimes think it's karma in action - my reward for spending time helping random PUGs get thru difficult missions. Either that or maybe there is something to the speculation that doing missions resets your farming flags.

strcpy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

One of Many [ONE]

30 Sep 2007 at 08:24 - 10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

If you're in a group of 8, the drops are the same. Henchies or real players - you get equal share regardless.

No, you get roughly double. Anet has said many times and experience says so too. In fact, if you kill one at a time you will find that you get almost every drop (though it is arguable that you GPH doesn't change). Of course, you also have things that are exempt from loot scale.

I see your complaint all the time - here is a hint, if you want Anet to pay attention to your rant at the very least stay factual. This advice never seems to do any good, there are always "reasons" why people feel this is the correct way to go, however if you proposed changes aren't based on what is reality then they will mostly be ignored.

Anet knows what they did and complaining about a system that is grossly incorrect with offering a system that is one like they used before isn't going to get much attention - you are going to be lucky they read past the gross inaccuracies.

Not to mention that what you complain about not being able to do is *exactly* what they are trying to stop. It's like the people complaining that they can not leave any old Random Arena they want anymore - yea, that's the WHOLE POINT. So, at best you are ignored, at worst you are telling them they did exactly as planned. Yes, please, send more e-mails to them and start more threads on the forums about not being able to farm ungodly amounts of gold anymore and making the about the same as if you just played the game. That will get their attention (or maybe not).

Whirlwind

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Wolven Empire

D/

30 Sep 2007 at 09:19 - 11

Um where did a-net ever say anything about heroes and hench getting more drops then a normal player does. This has come up time and again and theres always people on both sides saying either -

A) You get more loot when in a group with 8 real people vs with 8 AI controlled.
or
B) Its exactly the same.

Its such a popular controversy, and i personally have NEVER seen any official response, and since search sucks, care to elaborate?

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

30 Sep 2007 at 09:27 - 12

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

No, you get roughly double. Anet has said many times and experience says so too. In fact, if you kill one at a time you will find that you get almost every drop (though it is arguable that you GPH doesn't change). Of course, you also have things that are exempt from loot scale....

links please, or it is all fiction.

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

30 Sep 2007 at 10:56 - 13

I'd like a link too strcpy.
I had no idea a player can get roughly double the drops by grouping with players rather than with henchmen. :O
I think drop rates are being messed with all the time. I'm not 100% sure though.
I remember some items dropping alot a while ago and now they are not dropping so often.
It was said that the farming code was taken out when loot scaling was implemented, so I'm thinking the team is adjusting drop rates on certain things/areas every update.

OP, if you think Domain of Fear isn't dropping enough loot for an hour's play you should put something in the official wiki. It might help. I remember when Destroyer Core drops went into the ether, we posted on the official wiki about it and it was adjusted in the next update.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

30 Sep 2007 at 12:03 - 14

Quote:

No, you get roughly double. Anet has said many times and experience says so too. In fact, if you kill one at a time you will find that you get almost every drop (though it is arguable that you GPH doesn't change). Of course, you also have things that are exempt from loot scale.

I'd like some further information on this as well.

My current interpretation:
1 player + 7 henchies = 1/8 of a chance of drop
1 player + 3 hero + 4 hench = 1/8 of a chance of drop
1 player + 7 players = 1/8 of a chance of drop
1 player (solo) = 1/4 of a chance of drop (yes, adjusted for party size, but "double" as mentioned before)

The experience shows that true solo farming (1 person in party at time of entering the instance) you get twice the drops that you would in a full party.

The original description was, that regardless of how you enter the instance, the drops would be scaled to that instance's party size, not your actual party size.

I believe this is what you're referring to with "double" the chance - which would be supported by some practical evidence.

But as long as you have a full party, the loot is scaled between 1/4 and 1/8 of a chance.

If a mob has 80% chance of a drop, then in a party of 8 (regardless of who), the chance that you get an item will be 10%. If you go into the instance alone (single party member), you chances for this drop are 20%.

Greens and other special items I believe are excluded from loot scaling.

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

30 Sep 2007 at 22:05 - 15

Quote:

The experience shows that true solo farming (1 person in party at time of entering the instance) you get twice the drops that you would in a full party.

It *feels* like more than that, though I can't empirically argue that it is. It IS worth noting that you get 100% of any gold that drops, rather than the usual 1/8 share.

LeetScythemaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

Dragonslayers of Ascalon

D/Mo

30 Sep 2007 at 22:10 - 16

Uhh, strcpy maybe you should read my post a little more thoruoughly. For one, the purpose of my post was not to farm "ungodly amounts of gold." All I'm saying is that for killing whatever it is, 3 mobs with 6 or so crits in it (18 or so crits)..and doing this multiple times in an hour should yield more than 10 crappy drops.

Even if you figure that you farm this area at a rate of 18 crits per 10 minutes (which is reasonable to me), you come up with 108 crits killed per hour. After dividing that by 8 (bc of 8 party members) you come up with an average of about 14 drops per hour. And, with each drop being, let's say worth 60 gold each, that comes out to..840 gold per hour!! Seems kind of low to me.

And on top of that, I kill a boss every single time I go out. And if you do the math for killing the boss, it comes out to about 1 drop per hour also, but my point is....IT'S A BOSS, they should drop more than 1 item every hour.

I also can't say I'm not fortunate, because I did get like 11 greens over the GW:EN weekend, but that even took a lot of time to get.

Oh, and everyone feel free to talk down to people who have ideas and speak their mind (kind of like strcpy) because we all know how cool those people are!

NoXiFy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

★☆٭Ńēŵ~ŶờЯК٭☆★

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/Me

30 Sep 2007 at 23:32 - 17

I have a similar problem, chest rewards. I swear to god, every time im with a full 8 man group, like 3 req.9 perfect ele swords drop, 4 onyx, and than i get... a req.13 inspiration magic staff. I seriously have merched over 40 of these gold mesmer stalve's since GW:EN came out. Thats ALL i get from chests. Ill screenshot it next time, cause seriously, it's like "Hex of Arenanet>you" is on me 24/7.

LeetScythemaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

Dragonslayers of Ascalon

D/Mo

30 Sep 2007 at 23:35 - 18

I have the same problem, but I always seem to get crappy purple drops from chests. To me, this is also ridiculous because the player pays 1500 at merch just to get a crappy usually high req purp.

Once you get the chest rank up, you do get better chance of keeping the lockpick, I'm at like 44% destroy rate right now...which isn't all that bad. I do seem to retain a lot more lockpicks now than I did at end-game Nightfall.

I also e-mailed anet about this and received an e-mail saying drops are random...no luck there

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

W/

30 Sep 2007 at 23:56 - 19

Ive done many many missions/quests/dungeons with both Hero/Hench teams and live players.

In the live player teams I always recieve more drops and of better quality.

I am absolutely certain that a party of live players does get better drops than Hench/Hero teams.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

01 Oct 2007 at 01:32 - 20

As trite as it may be, I can't help but point out that if you are playing Guild Wars for the loot, you are playing the wrong game.

Now if you were to say that Guild Wars needs a new reason to play, it would be an interesting claim and one I would be inclined to support.

LeetScythemaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

Dragonslayers of Ascalon

D/Mo

01 Oct 2007 at 01:58 - 21

Wow, assumptions are crazy. Why can't people just take what people say for what it is...don't read into things

. All I'm saying is a few more drops would be nice. Why? Extra money, duh

. I'm not asking for 50k drops per run so I can amass a fortune and hoard it all for myself and rub it in everyone's face. A few extra gold here and there would be nice and reasonable, that's all.

SerenitySilverstar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

01 Oct 2007 at 02:17 - 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

I see your complaint all the time - here is a hint, if you want Anet to pay attention to your rant at the very least stay factual. This advice never seems to do any good, there are always "reasons" why people feel this is the correct way to go, however if you proposed changes aren't based on what is reality then they will mostly be ignored.

Don't worry strcpy, you're not alone in the woods.

Guys, the new loot scaling was comprised as a measure to stop gold farmers and botters. You didn't like them then, you don't like them now. Sometimes a change to a system is not perfect, but it at least tones down the undesirables.

As with all changes in life, you make do.

LeetScythemaster

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

Dragonslayers of Ascalon

D/Mo

01 Oct 2007 at 02:30 - 23

I usually do and I don't let stuff bother me, but to not be rewarded for what you're doing doesn't seem fair. Yes, not everyone likes gold farmers and bots, but do something about them directly, don't make the whole game community suffer for their greed.

Masseur

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Southern California

R/Mo

01 Oct 2007 at 04:42 - 24

In those chests at the end of the dungeons I get Paragon stuff (since I don't do Paragon) or diamonds, yippie.....and 80%-90% purples on the locked chests anywhere in the game.....

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

01 Oct 2007 at 04:49 - 25

Get out of DoA and get to some dungeons... Wanna know why?

1) All easily H/Hed (after all, only good friends in GW are the ones that don't speak)

2) Crapload of experience (omigawh I need that so bad)

3) Sometimes a skill point in the quest reward! (I didn't believe it at first, but Anet is just overly generous)

4) A mere chance at some "[email protected] l3wT" (no wayz, that loot just gets the boot)

sythmoi

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

04 Oct 2007 at 13:04 - 26

Point of the matter is read through the posts, everyone is complaining about the drop rates..maybe time they listen.

I know that they try to make people play more = GRIND = loot scaling = less millionares, sorry I want to play a game not be part of their little real life fanticy world with 3.5mil players.

But again the one of the only FREE MMO games out there, they can do what they want..there will allways be people playing cus it is FREE.

Maybe it is time that they give us a walktrough of how to get 10k Gold Items and 10k chests, how about Lucky/Unlucky..oh just stick around for the next 5 years then you will have it.

The reason thay I started playingthe game was:
1. Free
2. it was a game

Reason why I still play sometimes
1. IRL friends

Reason for not playing
1. Im not a puppet, I dont need to be part of thier little fanticy world with 3.5mil people.

Screw the people for complaining about unfair play, go make your own 55.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

04 Oct 2007 at 13:08 - 27

I think it'd be interesting to get a system where someone who actually needs a drop (say warrior needing a green sword) then it'd go to him. I think it could be annoying to join a farming group or something, have your item drop, but only for someone else who goes to sell it for 50k.

Cobalt

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

04 Oct 2007 at 13:34 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by dameros

You're not getting much loot because you have 7 henchman with you. Henchmen and heroes "steal" drops so you don't get them.

If you want more loot, do it solo or join a group of players.

Loot as been jacked up this way from day one, if you go with 7 humans you get a lot more loot and gold than you do with 7 henches or combination of heroes and henches. I believe it was made this way intentionally as a deterrent to use all henches or hench and heroe teams.

Buster

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Elona

Clan Eternal Legion

D/W

04 Oct 2007 at 16:58 - 29

What we have now is what we will still have until GW2 is released. They aren't going to spend large amounts of time fixing everything in GW1 when their soloution to problems will be in GW2.

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

04 Oct 2007 at 17:55 - 30

Note the post from free_fall above, 7 Greens in one week. And he says, "my reward for spending time helping random PUGs get thru difficult missions."

Now I have been told two things which fall into the category of superstition since there is no official info from ANet.

1. Doing a mission now and then will improve your drops generally.

2. Doing PvP in Random Arena or any PvP area that strips off your heroes will also improve your drops.

It seems to work for me. Or is it placebo effect?

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

04 Oct 2007 at 18:21 - 31

When you talk about only getting 10 drops in an hour, are you talking about rare drops or normal drops?

I cant undertand why you only got 10 drops in total in an hour. I bounty hunt in GWEN all the time and I get alot more then 10 drops in an AI team of 8.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

04 Oct 2007 at 18:41 - 32

I'd like it if they took out the anti-farming code.

Because there is anti-farming code; if I do a farming run multiple times (solo, hard mode) the drops decrease in quantity and quality until I get only 1-2 pieces of common crafting materials and a white item every few runs... ArenaNet wants the rich players to stay rich and keep the other players from being able to farm themselves some cash.

korcan

noobalicious

Join Date: Jun 2006

04 Oct 2007 at 18:45 - 33

instead of killing stuff for the chance of a drop, go do some hard mode chest runs in nightfall. you will always come out on top in the long run. selling elite tombs and max mods you get from chests will net you a fortune, not to mention the occasional low req rare.

i dont play much anymore but im sure chest running is still profitable if you do enough of them.