A lot of the Nightfall Missions are really badly designed.
I consider Moddok's Crevice to be one of the worst. Firstly of all Dunkoro's hints are not seen by all party members at the same time. This is patently obvious when running on Team Speak. The upshot of this is confusion in the party of players. Why does there have to be two runners, when 1 would have been difficult enough. Why must we go through the tedium of the first part, to fail over and over again with the damn runners.
When other master's are relatively simple to achieve, this one is really painful and I wonder if it could be done using heroes and henchman.
Which mission deserves the prize for the worst design?
VinnyRidira
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by VinnyRidira
Why does there have to be two runners, when 1 would have been difficult enough.
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... tbh, I liked the fact you actually had to do something to get Master's at Moddok.
I don't like a fair number of Prophecies missions.. they're just long and boring, with the same mobs over and over again... the Maguuma missions are all very much like this.
btw...Moddok is very much possible with heroes and hench. You just need to set up yourself and heroes with snare skills - Shadow Prison, cripshot, Mind Freeze, Water Trident, Bull's Strike.
The fighting in the mission is piss easy, so you can happily bring builds specifically for the runners.
trielementz
i personally dislike nundu bay. pretty much forces you to get a group so to disable the boss's immunity. and that place is always deserted.
bungusmaximus
The final mission of nightfall is really horrible, it mainly depends on how good your luck is with the torment claw spawns, and winning because of luck instead of skill is baaaad.
VinnyRidira
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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
The final mission of nightfall is really horrible, it mainly depends on how good your luck is with the torment claw spawns, and winning because of luck instead of skill is baaaad.
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The last time I did the Gate of Madness we missed Masters because we killed Shiro off just before we got the last shrine activated. The assassin was just a little bit too efficient, lol.
Edge Martinez
I haven't seen a mission yet that was badly designed. They're all doable for the most part with h/h, but a human group makes things much easier. I'd say bad 'design' might be the time required for some of the missions as the game has progressed since Prophecies, but that is just time.
bungusmaximus
Badly designed doesn't necessarily mean hard, something can be badly designed for being too easy as well, or for being just annoying, like PUGing jungle missions in prophecies and searching your butt off because someone liked to make a maze of the mission map ^^.
FelixCarter
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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
The final mission of nightfall is really horrible, it mainly depends on how good your luck is with the torment claw spawns, and winning because of luck instead of skill is baaaad.
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I think it was very... "end game boss-ish" (if that made any sense)
But, back to the topic. Worst mission in my oppinion?
I want to list quite a few Factions missions... But I'll just say "any timed mission".
I don't like having to rush through things.
zwei2stein
Divinity Coast used to be pain since most of time bonus is all about being lucky with spawns.
Esan
Vizunah Square and Unwaking Waters. Depending on a random other team is just a lot of meh. The former still has a tonne of pathing and AI glitches. The latter is very confusingly presented. Why can't ArenaNet simply state the interruption mechanics for Kuunavang's skills instead of leaving it to the players to blindly grope in the darkness? I mean, it's not like we can actually run controlled experiments here.
Second worst is Mouth of Torment. For a pivotal mission in the game, Varesh really is a pushover. Especially in HM, where she will pull herself to you.
The only other mission that is actually badly designed, instead of being merely poorly implemented, is Augury Rock. Fighting your double sounds really neat until you spend 5 seconds thinking about it, and it becomes clear that this mission cannot but suck. Is it any wonder that all builds for this mission are one-shot gimmick builds? To be fair, I think ArenaNet have redeemed themselves marvellously with Polymock.
Second worst is Mouth of Torment. For a pivotal mission in the game, Varesh really is a pushover. Especially in HM, where she will pull herself to you.
The only other mission that is actually badly designed, instead of being merely poorly implemented, is Augury Rock. Fighting your double sounds really neat until you spend 5 seconds thinking about it, and it becomes clear that this mission cannot but suck. Is it any wonder that all builds for this mission are one-shot gimmick builds? To be fair, I think ArenaNet have redeemed themselves marvellously with Polymock.
Karia Mirniman
Mundu Bay.
This is when I stopped enjoying nightfalls challenges. 100s of hours gaining skill (Tyria etc) to be told, 'Harbingers can only be damaged if you pour water on them'.
From then on everything was chessy.
This is when I stopped enjoying nightfalls challenges. 100s of hours gaining skill (Tyria etc) to be told, 'Harbingers can only be damaged if you pour water on them'.
From then on everything was chessy.
Riot Narita
Dunes of Despair, bonus, in Hard Mode.
I tried that SO many times, and have still never managed it with any build or team without resorting to the Traversal-Suicide-Rebirth trick... and even that can take many attempts until you get an enemy spawned over the wall.
I tried that SO many times, and have still never managed it with any build or team without resorting to the Traversal-Suicide-Rebirth trick... and even that can take many attempts until you get an enemy spawned over the wall.
Meat Axe
Most of the missions already mentioned I have no problem with. Moddock Crevice is easy if you take enough snare skills. Vizunah Square and Unwaking Waters are annoying because of the two party thing, but it's easy enough to just do them at a time when there is no one else there, and if you get a party full of henches, these missions are incredibly easy (not saying it's hard with PUGs. Just sometimes you will get those idiots who don't actually know how to play). And I quite like the maze-like missions in Prophecies.
I think the worst mission is Minister Cho's Estate. It's incredibly easy. You're guaranteed masters. But you have to wait for the two boring NPCs. I've always hated missions and quests where the NPC leads instead of just following you as you make your way through.
I think the worst mission is Minister Cho's Estate. It's incredibly easy. You're guaranteed masters. But you have to wait for the two boring NPCs. I've always hated missions and quests where the NPC leads instead of just following you as you make your way through.
Edge Martinez
Ah... just thought of some bad missions. Anything that requires a hero to complete. I always feel that this effectively leaves someone out.
Shanaeri Rynale
There is no bad mission now, they have all been made very easy over time. THK was made a lot easier, but now the times between mobs seem too long. Bring back old THK 
Malice Black
We done THK last night..and wow..boring.
We actually ran outside the keep to kill the Mursaat. You could 4 man THK now. THK was never hard to begin with, so why the serious nerf?
Worst designed? Elona Reach
So much wasted space there.
We actually ran outside the keep to kill the Mursaat. You could 4 man THK now. THK was never hard to begin with, so why the serious nerf?
Worst designed? Elona Reach
So much wasted space there.
Iorek Valr
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Originally Posted by trielementz
i personally dislike nundu bay. pretty much forces you to get a group so to disable the boss's immunity. and that place is always deserted.
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Just don't take the water at the start, go outside, kill all the close mobs.
Go back, take water, kill the trickle of enemies that come.
Walk round side, pull group kill bonus harbinger, go inside fort, kill group and 2nd bonus harbinger, go under fort, pull group, kill final harbinger.
Win.
MM heroes are awesome in that mission.
-Loki-
THK ever since Arenanet killed it because of all the difficulty whining. Now you can snooze through it.
Aera
Vizunah Square. It's awful that you depend on what the other team brings, which is usually a huge amount of henchmen and they RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing suck so bad, espcially in hardmode that one is just hell.
Luckily I don't really PvE anymore.
Luckily I don't really PvE anymore.
Kusandaa
I think it's a tie between Vizunah Square and Jennur's Horde for me. Vizunah because Togo and Mehnlo get stuck every.single.time. Every. I came to a point where yesterday (did it on my paragon) I didn't take heroes and stayed with Togo/Mehnlo to make sure they would move. And even there, it took more time than usual... and eventually cost us masters reward.
I seriously hate Jennur's Horde. Probably because I had to do it so often to get masters reward on my necro... which is the only that has done it - and the only one that will access to it. I mean, it's doable, I've done it. But wow, the design really sucks; harbingers and infinite margonite spawn that make you move every 2 minutes, sometimes in the middle of another mob.
I seriously hate Jennur's Horde. Probably because I had to do it so often to get masters reward on my necro... which is the only that has done it - and the only one that will access to it. I mean, it's doable, I've done it. But wow, the design really sucks; harbingers and infinite margonite spawn that make you move every 2 minutes, sometimes in the middle of another mob.
Keithark
Another vote for the last mission in Nightfall...It is not hard at all, just boring and takes too long. If there is endgame armor and weps and stuff the mission should be a quick one like in EOTN and Factions..I did like the cutscene at the end though
EternalTempest
I vote Moddok's Crevice -> Runner do pose a challenge but is doable. My main grip is the getting the "hints" late or after the fact. The triggers for the hint windows is really bad.
I find Viz Square is easy with 2 mm's, and the other team is all henchmen. In fact it's rather rare to have a human team on the other side any more.
I find Viz Square is easy with 2 mm's, and the other team is all henchmen. In fact it's rather rare to have a human team on the other side any more.
moko
i think the 2 team idea was a bad design;
- Vizunah Square
also missions that are dependant on luck;
- Divinity Coast
missions you can run through;
- Elona Reach
missions that were nearly impossible for a solo player due to you having to carry stuff;
- Jennurs Horde
missions that contained BOSSES FROM OTHER CHAPTERS WTF????
- Gate of Madness (Pain? i dunno..)
well i guess that's it, i kinda liked the rest. can't say they were actually hard, but just annoying due to their dumb concept.
- Vizunah Square
also missions that are dependant on luck;
- Divinity Coast
missions you can run through;
- Elona Reach
missions that were nearly impossible for a solo player due to you having to carry stuff;
- Jennurs Horde
missions that contained BOSSES FROM OTHER CHAPTERS WTF????
- Gate of Madness (Pain? i dunno..)
well i guess that's it, i kinda liked the rest. can't say they were actually hard, but just annoying due to their dumb concept.
lyra_song
Id have to agree on moddok's crevice.
The hints are so vague... -.o
And by the time the hints pop up, you already passed the area.
The hints are so vague... -.o
And by the time the hints pop up, you already passed the area.
cthulhu reborn
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Originally Posted by -Loki-
THK ever since Arenanet killed it because of all the difficulty whining. Now you can snooze through it.
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Moddock is annoying because you don't always have players available so you need actual players to do it, but with 2 rangers it is still dead easy. Cripple and poison. Cripple slows em and poison makes em stop and use signet to clear poison....which costs them time. Just keep at it and they are dead in no time.
It's just that some missions require you to take more players to get masters and beyond that it depends on what you call bad design.
Some missions are a joke compared to others.
I personally think killing Abaddon at the end of NF is the lamest mission. Just because you run in circles doing the same thing 5 times to kill him...It was just an anti-climax.
pamelf
The Wilds!!! Oh GOD I HATE THAT MISSION. I always get lost....
Unlucky
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Originally Posted by pamelf
The Wilds!!! Oh GOD I HATE THAT MISSION. I always get lost....
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Vinraith
Vizunah and Unwaking are far too dependent on a hypothetical team that never turns up (so you end up with 12 henchmen, or 8 if you've got a friend along). Echovald and Gyala are the only two normal missions in the game that I've seen that just can't be solo'd, at least not for masters.
I like most of the NF missions, they tend to make more sense and give you a sense of being part of a larger operation, which the Proph and Factions missions never did. The junundu get old fast, though.
I like most of the NF missions, they tend to make more sense and give you a sense of being part of a larger operation, which the Proph and Factions missions never did. The junundu get old fast, though.
HawkofStorms
NF - Dzagnor Bastalon I hate that mission. So hard to H/H it. You basically need two MMs.
Factions - Tankaki Temple Togo and Mhenlo have a tendancy to rush into certain areas (especially near the ranger and sin boss) making it impossible to pull at those parts. There are also lots of chokepoints where heros and hench get to stand in breath of fire without moving (again, stuck there because Togo and Mhenlo are also there).
Prophecies - Iron Mines. Don't know why, but this one used to always give me trouble. I can do it now no problem, but even so, its still really long.
Factions - Tankaki Temple Togo and Mhenlo have a tendancy to rush into certain areas (especially near the ranger and sin boss) making it impossible to pull at those parts. There are also lots of chokepoints where heros and hench get to stand in breath of fire without moving (again, stuck there because Togo and Mhenlo are also there).
Prophecies - Iron Mines. Don't know why, but this one used to always give me trouble. I can do it now no problem, but even so, its still really long.
Dr Strangelove
I hate all the "protect the retard NPC" missions in proph. If rurik would just follow me instead of charging headlong into 3 mobs, I'd be so much happier.
combatchuck
I never cared for Divinity Coast. However, the one that tends to throw me into a rage is Vizunah. Actually, pretty much all of Factions makes me want to bomb the entire state of Washington.
Bryant Again
They all weren't too bad for me. Pogahn Passage used to be as annoying as shit until they buffed the NPC you had to protect.
Moddok Crevice wasn't too bad. I just cap'd "You're All Alone" so I was giving it a PvE test run (generally a bad idea. I was bored).
Moddok Crevice wasn't too bad. I just cap'd "You're All Alone" so I was giving it a PvE test run (generally a bad idea. I was bored).
ForgeWhelp
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
I hate all the "protect the retard NPC" missions in proph. If rurik would just follow me instead of charging headlong into 3 mobs, I'd be so much happier.
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{IceFire}
Divinity Coast
4 times to get the bonus >.<
4 times to get the bonus >.<
Kashrlyyk
Funny that the worst designed mission hasn´t been mentioned yet: Minister Chos Estate.
Being forced to wait every few steps, is just the worst design decision, they could make.
Being forced to wait every few steps, is just the worst design decision, they could make.
EternalTempest
I remember reading a thread about how when designing Gwen, they put a sign in the office stating "When you make a Fed Ex Quest, Abbadon kills a puppy". This was to create variety of quests in EOTN. And I'm very happy with EOTN variety and no one has pointed out any EOTN missions.
This also includes NPC you have to take with you don't die or they self-resurrect themselves. In fact I've only found 1 "fed ex" like mission in all of EOTN so far. It's the one where that White Mantle has you go fetch and bring back (carry) a tome.
I've have the opposite experienced with dual group factions missions, I want henchmen group... more then average they do better.
This also includes NPC you have to take with you don't die or they self-resurrect themselves. In fact I've only found 1 "fed ex" like mission in all of EOTN so far. It's the one where that White Mantle has you go fetch and bring back (carry) a tome.
I've have the opposite experienced with dual group factions missions, I want henchmen group... more then average they do better.
Razz Thom
Any in any game that says "So and so must survive"
Hyper Cutter
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
Echovald and Gyala are the only two normal missions in the game that I've seen that just can't be solo'd, at least not for masters.
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Originally Posted by Razz Thom
Any in any game that says "So and so must survive"
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Chthon
Grand Prize: Eternal Grove. A mission that requires a split. Pre-heroes, you needed a full team of 8 to do this one. Of course, a full team of 8 was hard to come by because no one ever came back to this one once it was finished, least of all monks, and half the population was over doing Gayla Hatchery instead. Things were even worse because you had so little flexibility in your two teams of four. "Assn LFG"? Good luck. Even now, you still can't H+H the darned thing without dragging along a friend.
Second Place: Maddock Crevice is a royal pain. Getting H+H to snare two targets borders on impossible. Far, far too many times I've locked a hero's target on "their" runner, only to find them snaring the runner I just snared while "their" runner goes free off into the pile of insects, where all hope of getting the H+H on target again is totally lost.
Third Place: Unwaking Waters. First you are severely limited in party composition, as melee characters are nearly useless. Second you are completely at the mercy of whatever idiot children happen to join from the other side -- which is almost inevitably a single W/Mo or Asn with the worst possible hench selection available.
Fourth Place: Vizunah Sq. The other mission where you are completely at the mercy of whatever you get from the other team -- which, again, is inevitably the worst of the worst. Made even harder by the (a) NPC pathing errors that can cause a complete fail, and (b) the fact that the all-hench squad on the opposite side is barely up to the challenge.
Second Place: Maddock Crevice is a royal pain. Getting H+H to snare two targets borders on impossible. Far, far too many times I've locked a hero's target on "their" runner, only to find them snaring the runner I just snared while "their" runner goes free off into the pile of insects, where all hope of getting the H+H on target again is totally lost.
Third Place: Unwaking Waters. First you are severely limited in party composition, as melee characters are nearly useless. Second you are completely at the mercy of whatever idiot children happen to join from the other side -- which is almost inevitably a single W/Mo or Asn with the worst possible hench selection available.
Fourth Place: Vizunah Sq. The other mission where you are completely at the mercy of whatever you get from the other team -- which, again, is inevitably the worst of the worst. Made even harder by the (a) NPC pathing errors that can cause a complete fail, and (b) the fact that the all-hench squad on the opposite side is barely up to the challenge.
Mavrik
I hate Heart Of The Shiver Peaks