curse necs pwn destroyers?
blkhawk153
ive been wondering what is the most effective hero build to fight destroyers. someone told me that curse necros are very effective. is this true? if it is, what hexes are best to use?
Coloneh
Newsflash! curses necros pwn EVERYTHING! if they have a team good enough to get their spells off.
there are a few really powerful hexes:
[skill]spiteful spirit[/skill] this skill is just plain amazing.
[skill]barbs[/skill] the more physical damage on your team the more damage it does
[skill]mark of pain[/skill] same story as barbs.
[skill]Defile Enchantments[/skill]/[skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill]sweet AoE goodness
[skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill]this can return a surprising amount of health.
[skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill]never leave home without a cover hex.
[skill]Price of Failure[/skill] prety good damge
[skill]Spinal Shivers[/skill]nasty bosses wiping your party? not anymore. energy heavy though
[skill]Hexer's Vigor[/skill] if you need a heal
[skill]spoil victor[/skill]shhh i know its blood. it still pwns tough enemys.
there are a few really powerful hexes:
[skill]spiteful spirit[/skill] this skill is just plain amazing.
[skill]barbs[/skill] the more physical damage on your team the more damage it does
[skill]mark of pain[/skill] same story as barbs.
[skill]Defile Enchantments[/skill]/[skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill]sweet AoE goodness
[skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill]this can return a surprising amount of health.
[skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill]never leave home without a cover hex.
[skill]Price of Failure[/skill] prety good damge
[skill]Spinal Shivers[/skill]nasty bosses wiping your party? not anymore. energy heavy though
[skill]Hexer's Vigor[/skill] if you need a heal
[skill]spoil victor[/skill]shhh i know its blood. it still pwns tough enemys.
Str0b0
Yeah pretty much what Coloneh said but with one addition for GWEN that is super helpful and I run in all my curse builds now. [skill]enfeebling blood[/skill]
AoE Weakness works wonders when the enemy levels are well above 20.
Oh and [skill]spiteful spirit[/skill] + [skill]reckless haste[/skill] + [skill]price of failure[/skill] = massive damage in a surprisingly short time.
AoE Weakness works wonders when the enemy levels are well above 20.
Oh and [skill]spiteful spirit[/skill] + [skill]reckless haste[/skill] + [skill]price of failure[/skill] = massive damage in a surprisingly short time.
CHUIU
The best combination for SS + Reckless is Arcane Echo. Toss on reckless and then echo ss onto to enemies and the damage gets spread around fast and evenly. Price of Failure is bad to use because it causes the enemy to die faster, it would be alright if you used it on a 3rd enemy though.
Mark of pain scatters aggro, I don't suggest using it. If you do need a cover hex, you can toss on reckless after SS. I have problems getting all the skills I want in my bar without having to worry about an extra spell just for a cover hex.
And instead of Spinal its always better to bring an interrupt ranger (with broad head and 1-3 separate interrupts - Zho is a god) or a mesmer. Unless you actually need to interrupt skills and not spells (ie: Kanaxai).
Mark of pain scatters aggro, I don't suggest using it. If you do need a cover hex, you can toss on reckless after SS. I have problems getting all the skills I want in my bar without having to worry about an extra spell just for a cover hex.
And instead of Spinal its always better to bring an interrupt ranger (with broad head and 1-3 separate interrupts - Zho is a god) or a mesmer. Unless you actually need to interrupt skills and not spells (ie: Kanaxai).
boogerboy72
zingers dual mm's+barbs=so many 16's popping up. That skill is unreal with mm's.
My skill bar consists of necrosis, SoS, ss, enfeebleing blood, desc. enchantments, insidious and SoLS i do very well in places with lots of corpses with those builds. curses pwn everything
My skill bar consists of necrosis, SoS, ss, enfeebleing blood, desc. enchantments, insidious and SoLS i do very well in places with lots of corpses with those builds. curses pwn everything
blkhawk153
hm...intriguing
Snow Bunny
I've found the perfect 3 hero build for my play style and it's wonderful.
But in terms of SS necros.
I use two of them, specced to 14 curse, 10 Sr, and 8 Resto magic, N/Rt.
They both pack price of failure, ss, and vengeful weapon. Works so well.
Coupled with a water ele packing maelstrom and Blurred vision and I haven't actually had a teammate die against destroyers yet.
But in terms of SS necros.
I use two of them, specced to 14 curse, 10 Sr, and 8 Resto magic, N/Rt.
They both pack price of failure, ss, and vengeful weapon. Works so well.
Coupled with a water ele packing maelstrom and Blurred vision and I haven't actually had a teammate die against destroyers yet.
Str0b0
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHUIU
The best combination for SS + Reckless is Arcane Echo. Toss on reckless and then echo ss onto to enemies and the damage gets spread around fast and evenly. Price of Failure is bad to use because it causes the enemy to die faster, it would be alright if you used it on a 3rd enemy though.
Echo + SS is pointless with the right equipment. The recharge is not unmangeable and basically all you do is put a 15e skill in your bar that isn't going to be directly adding to your damage output. With a HRT mod on my curses staff I'm able to spread SS around just as effectively as an echo SS build can without killing my energy with that unnecessary expenditure for the echo spell. Perhaps I'm just ignorant but I thought the whole point was to make the enemies die fast, as fast as possible so they can't kill you. I'd rather have more direct damage than a limited copy of a skill I already have in my bar. MoP causes about the same scatter as SS now BTW. That update is ages old. People kept whining about it so they finally made SS cause the scatter effect as well.
boogerboy72
ss dosnt cause a scatter,
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Str0b0
Echo + SS is pointless with the right equipment. The recharge is not unmangeable and basically all you do is put a 15e skill in your bar that isn't going to be directly adding to your damage output. With a HRT mod on my curses staff I'm able to spread SS around just as effectively as an echo SS build can without killing my energy with that unnecessary expenditure for the echo spell.
Precasting Arcane Echo about 10 seconds before engaging the enemy solves much of the energy problem. The SS attack chain will drain your energy bar but after all you are a necromancer and energy while fighting huge mobs should be a pretty insignificant problem.
Coloneh
echo SS is nice, so is SQ SS. but echo SS offers huge energy managment in the form of Auspicious incantation on the echoed SS with no downside.
noocoo
I like to use [skill]Defile Defence[/skill] to own those ranger destroyer.
Rennis the White
Suffering and Shadow of Fear are great for larger groups just slap them on and then use enfeebling blood. After that Feast of Corruption when necessary and you just slay a large group.
Painbringer
My favorite AOE dmg setup for my Necro
[skill]Feast of Corruption[/skill][skill]Defile Enchantments[/skill][skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill][skill]Suffering[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Alkar's Alchemical Acid[/skill] (not a curse but works well)
[skill]Feast of Corruption[/skill][skill]Defile Enchantments[/skill][skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill][skill]Suffering[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Alkar's Alchemical Acid[/skill] (not a curse but works well)
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by boogerboy72
ss dosnt cause a scatter,
It does if there are over 3 melee being affected by it
SS doesn't cause scatter on ranged units though
SS doesn't cause scatter on ranged units though
Thom Bangalter
I don't, and probably never will, understand why people need echo ss. just using SS on cycle is good enough, especially since reckless haste exists and the recharge is so short, not to mention how good multiple curse necros are in pve.
I also don't know why you'd waste a slot on a cover hex in pve, unless you know specifically that there's going to be hex removal.
I also don't know why you'd waste a slot on a cover hex in pve, unless you know specifically that there's going to be hex removal.
Str0b0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
I don't, and probably never will, understand why people need echo ss. just using SS on cycle is good enough, especially since reckless haste exists and the recharge is so short, not to mention how good multiple curse necros are in pve.
I also don't know why you'd waste a slot on a cover hex in pve, unless you know specifically that there's going to be hex removal. That's what I'm saying. It's not that echo is a burden on my energy pool but I feel like the 15e cost is a waste when it doesn't actually do any damage itself. I'd rather take another 10 or 15e skill that I can cast and it will cause damage.
I also don't know why you'd waste a slot on a cover hex in pve, unless you know specifically that there's going to be hex removal. That's what I'm saying. It's not that echo is a burden on my energy pool but I feel like the 15e cost is a waste when it doesn't actually do any damage itself. I'd rather take another 10 or 15e skill that I can cast and it will cause damage.
Moloch Vein
The other 10 or 15e skill won't cause as much damage as the echoed elite will.
Reckless Haste exists but don't forget you need to cast it *twice* to cover one use of SS. It's been nerfed more or less into oblivion - a 15e adjacent-AoE spell causing a higher miss rate for 12 seconds. Reckless will also not increase the damage output in hard mode.
First of all 10 seconds isn't exactly a short recharge time. Second, if you can choose, do you prefer killing fast or killing slow? Third, you forget that Arcane Echo isn't just utility for SS but for your entire bar, almost whatever spells you bring.
Reckless Haste exists but don't forget you need to cast it *twice* to cover one use of SS. It's been nerfed more or less into oblivion - a 15e adjacent-AoE spell causing a higher miss rate for 12 seconds. Reckless will also not increase the damage output in hard mode.
First of all 10 seconds isn't exactly a short recharge time. Second, if you can choose, do you prefer killing fast or killing slow? Third, you forget that Arcane Echo isn't just utility for SS but for your entire bar, almost whatever spells you bring.
boogerboy72
the only reason i dont use use echo ss in pve is that the way my builds are, i rarely ever have enemies grouped together enough to make use of it. Right now im running
[skill]Necrosis[/skill]
[skill]Barbs[/skill]
[skill]spiteful spirit[/skill]
[skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill]
[skill]Defile Enchantments[/skill]
[skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill]
[skill]Pain inverter[/skill]
[skill]Signet of lost souls[/skill]
this build works very well for me in pve with zingers heros,
if anyone has some suggestions for changing it please let me know,
[skill]Necrosis[/skill]
[skill]Barbs[/skill]
[skill]spiteful spirit[/skill]
[skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill]
[skill]Defile Enchantments[/skill]
[skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill]
[skill]Pain inverter[/skill]
[skill]Signet of lost souls[/skill]
this build works very well for me in pve with zingers heros,
if anyone has some suggestions for changing it please let me know,
Moloch Vein
The only times I don't want to run arcane with SS or SV is when for some reason I can't go /Me, usually because I need a resurrection spell.
I wouldn't bother with Defile Ench or its cousin in general PvE usage; too slow, too long recharge, damage sucks, better to spend that slot on another utility.
I wouldn't bother with Defile Ench or its cousin in general PvE usage; too slow, too long recharge, damage sucks, better to spend that slot on another utility.
Str0b0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
The other 10 or 15e skill won't cause as much damage as the echoed elite will.
Reckless Haste exists but don't forget you need to cast it *twice* to cover one use of SS. It's been nerfed more or less into oblivion - a 15e adjacent-AoE spell causing a higher miss rate for 12 seconds. Reckless will also not increase the damage output in hard mode.
First of all 10 seconds isn't exactly a short recharge time. Second, if you can choose, do you prefer killing fast or killing slow? Third, you forget that Arcane Echo isn't just utility for SS but for your entire bar, almost whatever spells you bring. I'm sorry arcane echo just seems pointless to me. Reckless haste is pointless in HM,except for running PoF, because they already have an attack and movement speed buff. Very rarely do I actually have to wait for the entire 10 second recharge. More often than not the HRT mod kicks in and it's only a 5 second recharge. I prefer to use Price of Failure in place of echo just because I can spread it around about as effectively as I can spread SS around because the HRT mod helps so much. Then with all the missing they are doing and SS triggering prior to the skill actually going off you're looking at pretty much the same damage output. Try it sometime. With the right mods on your staff or wand and focus whichever you prefer it's possible to run without arcane echo.
Reckless Haste exists but don't forget you need to cast it *twice* to cover one use of SS. It's been nerfed more or less into oblivion - a 15e adjacent-AoE spell causing a higher miss rate for 12 seconds. Reckless will also not increase the damage output in hard mode.
First of all 10 seconds isn't exactly a short recharge time. Second, if you can choose, do you prefer killing fast or killing slow? Third, you forget that Arcane Echo isn't just utility for SS but for your entire bar, almost whatever spells you bring. I'm sorry arcane echo just seems pointless to me. Reckless haste is pointless in HM,except for running PoF, because they already have an attack and movement speed buff. Very rarely do I actually have to wait for the entire 10 second recharge. More often than not the HRT mod kicks in and it's only a 5 second recharge. I prefer to use Price of Failure in place of echo just because I can spread it around about as effectively as I can spread SS around because the HRT mod helps so much. Then with all the missing they are doing and SS triggering prior to the skill actually going off you're looking at pretty much the same damage output. Try it sometime. With the right mods on your staff or wand and focus whichever you prefer it's possible to run without arcane echo.
Thom Bangalter
The problem with running ss/echo is that you go n/me instead of n/e.
Moloch Vein
It's completely pointless to go N/E instead of N/Me for SS or SV in PvE.
Even with two HSR mods the chance of halving skill recharge time isn't 40%.
Price of Failure is a hopeless spell for general PvE usage in an SS build. The recharge is 20 seconds, the cast time and cost same as SS, and introduces a measly 25% miss chance on a single target with a conditional damage on it that doesn't even beat SS by much.
_Of course_ you can run SS without Arcane. All I'm saying is running SS with Arcane increases your damage output, your killing speed and your value to the team by enough that I find it wise never to leave home without it, unless I need to go /Mo or /Rt.
Even with two HSR mods the chance of halving skill recharge time isn't 40%.
Price of Failure is a hopeless spell for general PvE usage in an SS build. The recharge is 20 seconds, the cast time and cost same as SS, and introduces a measly 25% miss chance on a single target with a conditional damage on it that doesn't even beat SS by much.
_Of course_ you can run SS without Arcane. All I'm saying is running SS with Arcane increases your damage output, your killing speed and your value to the team by enough that I find it wise never to leave home without it, unless I need to go /Mo or /Rt.
Longasc
I usually run
1. SS
2. Reckless Haste
3. Mark of Pain
4. Enfeebling Blood
5. Desecrate Enchantments
6. Barbs
7. Signet of Lost Souls
8. Necrosis
No Rez for me. I carry Death Pact Signets on my Rangers/Paragons and MM that are usually my Heroes.
I usually go for teams full of physical attackers, ideally ranged. I use a dual 20/20 Curses Focus/Wand and a +60 +5^50 Soul Reaping Staff and have 2 headgears, Sup+Minor Curses.
I see no need to echo SS either, and Reckless Haste is a great AoE Hex that helps vs all kinds of physical attackers. If you do not want it, get Insidious Parasite instead of it. I still prefer Reckless Haste.
1. SS
2. Reckless Haste
3. Mark of Pain
4. Enfeebling Blood
5. Desecrate Enchantments
6. Barbs
7. Signet of Lost Souls
8. Necrosis
No Rez for me. I carry Death Pact Signets on my Rangers/Paragons and MM that are usually my Heroes.
I usually go for teams full of physical attackers, ideally ranged. I use a dual 20/20 Curses Focus/Wand and a +60 +5^50 Soul Reaping Staff and have 2 headgears, Sup+Minor Curses.
I see no need to echo SS either, and Reckless Haste is a great AoE Hex that helps vs all kinds of physical attackers. If you do not want it, get Insidious Parasite instead of it. I still prefer Reckless Haste.
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Str0b0
I'm sorry arcane echo just seems pointless to me. Reckless haste is pointless in HM,except for running PoF, because they already have an attack and movement speed buff. Very rarely do I actually have to wait for the entire 10 second recharge. More often than not the HRT mod kicks in and it's only a 5 second recharge. I prefer to use Price of Failure in place of echo just because I can spread it around about as effectively as I can spread SS around because the HRT mod helps so much. Then with all the missing they are doing and SS triggering prior to the skill actually going off you're looking at pretty much the same damage output. Try it sometime. With the right mods on your staff or wand and focus whichever you prefer it's possible to run without arcane echo.
I'm sorry but an AoE 50% miss chance is pointless?
Stormlord Alex
eep, don't post late at night... EDIT
Moloch Vein
The AoE range on Reckless Haste is very small and the duration is short.
netniwk
curses is indeed verry Ftw,i run a three necro team(me+2H). I play the SS(the Ai cant handle this verry well) olias is the MM, and master of whispers spikes with icy veins and putrid bile.Needles to say,we rush through anything.
FalconDance
Mali just degen Curses the foe to death with up to -16 (if that's possible, that is, since that's the total possible with the skills she pops off). It's a Rinse and Repeat usually for the next one until they're all gone.
Str0b0
Well you can post -16 degen on a foe but it only works with -10 at a time. Now those extra degen pips do count against any regen applied. So if you had -16 total and they had a +6 heal they would still be suffering from -10 degen.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Even with two HSR mods the chance of halving skill recharge time isn't 40%.
your right. its 36% with a 4% chance of fourth recharge time.
CHUIU
Quote:
Originally Posted by Str0b0
Echo + SS is pointless with the right equipment. The recharge is not unmangeable and basically all you do is put a 15e skill in your bar that isn't going to be directly adding to your damage output. With a HRT mod on my curses staff I'm able to spread SS around just as effectively as an echo SS build can without killing my energy with that unnecessary expenditure for the echo spell. Perhaps I'm just ignorant but I thought the whole point was to make the enemies die fast, as fast as possible so they can't kill you. I'd rather have more direct damage than a limited copy of a skill I already have in my bar. MoP causes about the same scatter as SS now BTW. That update is ages old. People kept whining about it so they finally made SS cause the scatter effect as well.
Right, well groups of enemies die in the time that the first SS recharges so I'm pretty sure echo'ing it would be far more efficient than relying on a 20% or 2 20% recharge items to make it recharge faster. It seems whatever group setup you're using doesn't kill things as fast so I guess your method works for what you're doing.
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
your right. its 36% with a 4% chance of fourth recharge time.
Can't break half recharge. So in the end, it's still 40% chance to halve recharge.
Str0b0
Well not exactly. Think of it this way. The game rolls a 10 sided die every time you cast a spell for each instance of HSR and every time the die comes up 1 or 2 the spell recharges in half the time. They don't stack. If you had 2 20% HSR mods then the game would roll that die 2 times. Each roll would still have that base chance you just have 2 opportunities to get the half skill recharge.
I know how the HSR works. My point is that I honestly only rarely get the chance to use my echoed SS. Most of the time the team has decimated the enemy group to the point that spreading it would be pointless so more often than not it is a wasted skill slot. I prefer to put something else in there instead, usually PoF and just stack on one target at a time as the targeting focus of the party shifts. For this sort of play style a single HSR mod works just fine and the damage output is more than sufficient. A majority of groups just pick the most threatening target first, call it then C or Tab as necessary to acquire a new target to call so my build and play style functions quite well in your average group. The only time I Echo SS is in the Deep where the enemies are more numerous and don't tend to die as quickly. then the echoed SS actually gets used effectively.
I know how the HSR works. My point is that I honestly only rarely get the chance to use my echoed SS. Most of the time the team has decimated the enemy group to the point that spreading it would be pointless so more often than not it is a wasted skill slot. I prefer to put something else in there instead, usually PoF and just stack on one target at a time as the targeting focus of the party shifts. For this sort of play style a single HSR mod works just fine and the damage output is more than sufficient. A majority of groups just pick the most threatening target first, call it then C or Tab as necessary to acquire a new target to call so my build and play style functions quite well in your average group. The only time I Echo SS is in the Deep where the enemies are more numerous and don't tend to die as quickly. then the echoed SS actually gets used effectively.
Moloch Vein
The chance to get any lowering of recharge time with a 20/20 set is 36% and not 40%.
I believe they call it "mathematics".
I believe they call it "mathematics".
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
The chance to get any lowering of recharge time with a 20/20 set is 36% and not 40%.
I believe they call it "mathematics". You're forgetting the quarter (both chances trigger) recharge, which can't break the 50% recharge limit imposed by ArenaNet. Saying 36% is correct is assuming that the 4% of quarter recharge (which subsequently becomes only a half due to a hard limit) is IGNORED.
It's not ignored, so your "mathematics" is flawed.
I believe they call it "mathematics". You're forgetting the quarter (both chances trigger) recharge, which can't break the 50% recharge limit imposed by ArenaNet. Saying 36% is correct is assuming that the 4% of quarter recharge (which subsequently becomes only a half due to a hard limit) is IGNORED.
It's not ignored, so your "mathematics" is flawed.
Longasc
Kale, not sure about your mathematics.
4% on a quarter recharge (0.2*0.2, both mods trigger)
32% on half recharge (0.8*0.2+0.2*0.8, one mod triggers)
64% on no faster recharge (0.8*0.8, no mod triggers)
The chance is 32% for half recharge, 4% for quarter recharge.
As there is no quarter recharge possible due to the 50% recharge limit that ANet introduced, it becomes 36%.
-- Plz go back to the topic! --
4% on a quarter recharge (0.2*0.2, both mods trigger)
32% on half recharge (0.8*0.2+0.2*0.8, one mod triggers)
64% on no faster recharge (0.8*0.8, no mod triggers)
The chance is 32% for half recharge, 4% for quarter recharge.
As there is no quarter recharge possible due to the 50% recharge limit that ANet introduced, it becomes 36%.
-- Plz go back to the topic! --
Coloneh
when was this half recharge update? i never saw any evidence, and i know back when i played my ss heavily i got quarter recharge plenty of times.
Longasc
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_updates/20060713
13. July 2006.
Fairly hard to find, most players still do not know that armor buffs no longer stack above 24. And nobody can blame them for that, it is mentioned nowhere.
13. July 2006.
Fairly hard to find, most players still do not know that armor buffs no longer stack above 24. And nobody can blame them for that, it is mentioned nowhere.
Kale Ironfist
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longasc
Kale, not sure about your mathematics.
4% on a quarter recharge (0.2*0.2, both mods trigger)
32% on half recharge (0.8*0.2+0.2*0.8, one mod triggers)
64% on no faster recharge (0.8*0.8, no mod triggers)
The chance is 32% for half recharge, 4% for quarter recharge.
As there is no quarter recharge possible due to the 50% recharge limit that ANet introduced, it becomes 36%.
-- Plz go back to the topic! --
I was reading Coloneh's post wrong, my bad.
4% on a quarter recharge (0.2*0.2, both mods trigger)
32% on half recharge (0.8*0.2+0.2*0.8, one mod triggers)
64% on no faster recharge (0.8*0.8, no mod triggers)
The chance is 32% for half recharge, 4% for quarter recharge.
As there is no quarter recharge possible due to the 50% recharge limit that ANet introduced, it becomes 36%.
-- Plz go back to the topic! --
I was reading Coloneh's post wrong, my bad.