Anyone know of a good build for a balanced fire ele?
"balanced" for me is like atleast 1 cheap spammer dmge spell, 2 aoe spell, 1 heal skill, 1 defensive skill, and maybe some sort of energy conserve skill.
I'm thinking along the lines of:
Flare (the spammer)
Double Dragon (good dmge aoe, and easy to cap)
Aura of resotration (the ele main heal skill)
Rez (just in case)
well that leaves alot of space left,
so any suggestions on a good balanced fire ele build? one with decent survivablilty and good dps?
balanced fire ele?
terminus123
Dr Strangelove
Well.... 3 of the 4 skills you mention there are really bad.
There's no need for a spammy spell in any build. Most spells that actually do something have a short enough recharge that you can spend all your time on them, instead of wasting time with junk like flare.
Double dragon is terrible. It has an insanely long recharge, small AoE, long aftercast, and requires you to be in meleee range - which is a bad plan. Compare [skill]double dragon[/skill], an elite, to [skill]flame burst[/skill] a non elite. Flame burst isn't very good, and it vastly outclasses double dragon in every way.
Aura of restoration is sort of a self-defeating skill. If you're taking significant damage, you should be kiting. If you're kiting, you're not casting. If you're not casting, AoR does nothing. See the problem?
If you post which campaigns you have, I can be a little more helpful build-wise.
There's no need for a spammy spell in any build. Most spells that actually do something have a short enough recharge that you can spend all your time on them, instead of wasting time with junk like flare.
Double dragon is terrible. It has an insanely long recharge, small AoE, long aftercast, and requires you to be in meleee range - which is a bad plan. Compare [skill]double dragon[/skill], an elite, to [skill]flame burst[/skill] a non elite. Flame burst isn't very good, and it vastly outclasses double dragon in every way.
Aura of restoration is sort of a self-defeating skill. If you're taking significant damage, you should be kiting. If you're kiting, you're not casting. If you're not casting, AoR does nothing. See the problem?
If you post which campaigns you have, I can be a little more helpful build-wise.
kahmal_oakenshield
I have on my fire ele (for PvE): fire attune, aura of resto, fireball (my spam skill), mark of rodgort, rodgort's invocation (my 1 aoe), searing heat (2nd aoe), glowing gaze (energy management after setting something on fire) & liquid flame.
Works great, except against destroyers since they're fire immune. I'd swap Searing for Savannah if I had it.
Works great, except against destroyers since they're fire immune. I'd swap Searing for Savannah if I had it.
schaapie
As ele you should not concern about an heal skill (my opninion) if you take some good hero monks or hench monks with you. I play ele really the builds that work great and that are fire are searing flames and savannah heat builds.
Stormlord Alex
The most 'balanced' Fire ele you could ever possibly run is a Mind Blaster.
You can pump out good damage with Rodgort's Invocation, Mind Blast and Fireball, and do... well... just about anything with Mind Blast and whatever support spells you want - Wards, Aegis, Convert Hexes, Heal Party, Blinding Flash... etc, etc.
[skill]mind blast[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill]--some PvE skill, possibly Breath of the Great Dwarf--[skill]ward against foes[/skill][skill]ward against melee[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]
... was what I was running, last I checked.
You can pump out good damage with Rodgort's Invocation, Mind Blast and Fireball, and do... well... just about anything with Mind Blast and whatever support spells you want - Wards, Aegis, Convert Hexes, Heal Party, Blinding Flash... etc, etc.
[skill]mind blast[/skill][skill]rodgort's invocation[/skill][skill]fireball[/skill]--some PvE skill, possibly Breath of the Great Dwarf--[skill]ward against foes[/skill][skill]ward against melee[/skill][skill]fire attunement[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill]
... was what I was running, last I checked.
Tab
Alex speaks the truth.
Sir Pandra Pierva
I would disagree with people not using aura of resto.
I have had many time where that has saved me more than anything else. But my thing is it shouldn't be the thing you rely on to live then you got a problem.
I have had many time where that has saved me more than anything else. But my thing is it shouldn't be the thing you rely on to live then you got a problem.
kahmal_oakenshield
I rarely use aura with heros or hench. I do use it often with PUG groups because I can't rely on the healers and they're usually busy healing the tank. It has a long enchantment time and is quick to cast which is nice. Even if I have good monks with me, having aura on means they don't have to worry about healing me if I catch the attention of a ranger or similar ranged attacker. And it covers the attune.
I could ditch mark but with attune on, mark/gaze brings my energy up from very low to decent in a couple shots. Then I can cast fireball and hit anything with gaze and gain energy as needed. Tada, practically full energy by the end of the fight. Plus, lighting everything on fire is just fun to do.
Also, I don't use wards because typically in a decent party of 8, mobs just dont last long enough to be really affected by conditions
I could ditch mark but with attune on, mark/gaze brings my energy up from very low to decent in a couple shots. Then I can cast fireball and hit anything with gaze and gain energy as needed. Tada, practically full energy by the end of the fight. Plus, lighting everything on fire is just fun to do.
Also, I don't use wards because typically in a decent party of 8, mobs just dont last long enough to be really affected by conditions
Dr Strangelove
Alex's build is pretty much the best general build for a PvE ele. It's got infinite energy, more damage than SF, and a ton of space for utility. Use it.
As for Kahmal's build, it needs to be more like alex's.
As for aura, if it saved your life, you should have been running the hell away. If you really need a self heal, as in AB or somesuch, mystic regen is better than anything else you could put there.
As for Kahmal's build, it needs to be more like alex's.
As for aura, if it saved your life, you should have been running the hell away. If you really need a self heal, as in AB or somesuch, mystic regen is better than anything else you could put there.
Moloch Vein
A couple of things to consider.
Mystic Regeneration requires /D and 8 in Earth.
Of course if you're close to death you should be kiting. Well, at least you should be kiting in 98% of all cases. However what AoR does is add some welcome healing to the ele making him more resilient and postponing the "close-to-death" situation.
I don't agree that AoR is a terrible skill. It's a quick cast, an excellent recharge, an insane duration and let's take a look at what it really does:
Assume that you go into battle by casting AoR and that the battle lasts for one minute.
Assume further that you are not bringing any energy management skills (which is insane and of course skewing the argument against my point. If the elementalist in question is running at least Fire Attunement and GoLE the result will be far, far improved).
Assume that you are, without any energy management skills, spending as much energy as you naturally regenerate.
Finally assume you are running a "pure" focused ele build with 12 <insert elemental attribute> and 12 <energy storage> with a +1 ES rune.
Your natural energy regeneration in one minute is 60*4/3=80
You will heal yourself for 80*3.67~293HP in 60 seconds. That's an extremely conservative calculation. Close to 300HP for 10e is a pretty good deal.
Mystic Regeneration requires /D and 8 in Earth.
Of course if you're close to death you should be kiting. Well, at least you should be kiting in 98% of all cases. However what AoR does is add some welcome healing to the ele making him more resilient and postponing the "close-to-death" situation.
I don't agree that AoR is a terrible skill. It's a quick cast, an excellent recharge, an insane duration and let's take a look at what it really does:
Assume that you go into battle by casting AoR and that the battle lasts for one minute.
Assume further that you are not bringing any energy management skills (which is insane and of course skewing the argument against my point. If the elementalist in question is running at least Fire Attunement and GoLE the result will be far, far improved).
Assume that you are, without any energy management skills, spending as much energy as you naturally regenerate.
Finally assume you are running a "pure" focused ele build with 12 <insert elemental attribute> and 12 <energy storage> with a +1 ES rune.
Your natural energy regeneration in one minute is 60*4/3=80
You will heal yourself for 80*3.67~293HP in 60 seconds. That's an extremely conservative calculation. Close to 300HP for 10e is a pretty good deal.
Dr Strangelove
On paper, it's awesome. However, in practice, not so much.
1) If you're taking damage, you are not casting, you are running away like a good little squishy
2) LoD already mops up the little bits of damage you take.
3) You are not constantly casting for a minute.
It does have some value as a cover enchantment so your precious attunement won't get stripped. However, there are very few situations where you need your secondary for something other than /D, and need a self heal. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is retard SF heroes who don't kite well. Even then, their bar is too crowded to waste space on something that amounts to around 2 pips of regen.
1) If you're taking damage, you are not casting, you are running away like a good little squishy
2) LoD already mops up the little bits of damage you take.
3) You are not constantly casting for a minute.
It does have some value as a cover enchantment so your precious attunement won't get stripped. However, there are very few situations where you need your secondary for something other than /D, and need a self heal. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head is retard SF heroes who don't kite well. Even then, their bar is too crowded to waste space on something that amounts to around 2 pips of regen.
terminus123
o lol nvr thought you needed to be in melee range to use double dragon, well then I'll probably get mind blast on mind burn then
Moloch Vein
I guess it's a matter of preference, but... sure, you're not casting constantly for a minute, but eating up a minute's worth of passive e-regen doesn't exactly require casting constantly
More likely during the course of the fight you'll go through your energy stack, run the glyphs, run the attunements, end up spending loads more than I projected and getting healed for loads more as well.
I never saw a monk crying about not getting to cast LoD as often as he wanted.
More likely during the course of the fight you'll go through your energy stack, run the glyphs, run the attunements, end up spending loads more than I projected and getting healed for loads more as well.
I never saw a monk crying about not getting to cast LoD as often as he wanted.
Ensign
The healing from Aura of Restoration usually doesn't do anything and it rarely matters. If you're not using it to cover enchants it's a complete waste.
Sir Pandra Pierva
Meh it's a great cover enchant and also doubles with a little healing, what more could anyone ask for. I say it wins
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
The healing from Aura of Restoration usually doesn't do anything and it rarely matters. If you're not using it to cover enchants it's a complete waste.
On the other hand I do not see many elementalists using only Aura of Restoration as an enchantment.
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva
what more could anyone ask for. I say it wins
A cover enchant that does something?
[skill]flame djinn's haste[/skill]
[skill]mystic regeneration[/skill]
come to mind off the top of my head.
[skill]flame djinn's haste[/skill]
[skill]mystic regeneration[/skill]
come to mind off the top of my head.
HawkofStorms
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
The healing from Aura of Restoration usually doesn't do anything and it rarely matters. If you're not using it to cover enchants it's a complete waste.
And that is where its value lies. Aura of Restoration is good because its a good cover enchant. It is in energy storage so if you only want to spec in 2 lines, you can. And the healing is minimal, but in certain parts of the game with lots of AoE pressure/degen the healing can help your monks and rts a bit. But mostly, its a good cover enchant that requires no attribute investment to be effective.
Sir Pandra Pierva
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
A cover enchant that does something?
[skill]flame djinn's haste[/skill]
[skill]mystic regeneration[/skill]
come to mind off the top of my head. You win. Still I like to use aura of resto cause that little bit of healing makes me last that much longer, and that much longer can allow me to kill, this is if I am not dervish secondary.
[skill]flame djinn's haste[/skill]
[skill]mystic regeneration[/skill]
come to mind off the top of my head. You win. Still I like to use aura of resto cause that little bit of healing makes me last that much longer, and that much longer can allow me to kill, this is if I am not dervish secondary.
Thom Bangalter
If I want to last a little bit longer, I stop letting the monster wail on me instead of standing there like a moron.
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter
If I want to last a little bit longer, I stop letting the monster wail on me instead of standing there like a moron.
LULZ U CANT TANK
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
And that is where its value lies. Aura of Restoration is good because its a good cover enchant. It is in energy storage so if you only want to spec in 2 lines, you can. And the healing is minimal, but in certain parts of the game with lots of AoE pressure/degen the healing can help your monks and rts a bit. But mostly, its a good cover enchant that requires no attribute investment to be effective.
Flame djinns > AoR. It's in fire, so you can spec into earth for wards without caring about losing some ES. The healing is pretty much worthless on AoR (especially if you have LoD monks), and flame djinns helps deal damage when someone's wailing on you + it lets you escape to prevent further damage. It's a good cover enchant that's perfectly in line with your attribute, giving you more ability to mix and match attributes rather than going pure fire+ES.
SeraCombi
i tried the build that stormlord alex posted...and i'm having e-management issues.
i have earth at 12 for max benefits of the wards...
max fire at 16, and (with a rune) my energy storage is thus at 4.
it seems that many of the times i use mind blast the foe has more energy than me, thus i'm not getting the energy back.
im using a fast-cast wand/off hand combo instead of my +20e staff. maybe that's it.
i have earth at 12 for max benefits of the wards...
max fire at 16, and (with a rune) my energy storage is thus at 4.
it seems that many of the times i use mind blast the foe has more energy than me, thus i'm not getting the energy back.
im using a fast-cast wand/off hand combo instead of my +20e staff. maybe that's it.
Tab
...
Surely it doesn't require that great a leap of thought to realise you need more estorage for it to work?
Surely it doesn't require that great a leap of thought to realise you need more estorage for it to work?
glountz
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeraCombi
i tried the build that stormlord alex posted...and i'm having e-management issues.
i have earth at 12 for max benefits of the wards...
max fire at 16, and (with a rune) my energy storage is thus at 4.
it seems that many of the times i use mind blast the foe has more energy than me, thus i'm not getting the energy back.
im using a fast-cast wand/off hand combo instead of my +20e staff. maybe that's it. Yeah you've an issue ^^
Try these attributes :
11+1+1 Fire 10+1 Earth 10+1 Energy storage
i have earth at 12 for max benefits of the wards...
max fire at 16, and (with a rune) my energy storage is thus at 4.
it seems that many of the times i use mind blast the foe has more energy than me, thus i'm not getting the energy back.
im using a fast-cast wand/off hand combo instead of my +20e staff. maybe that's it. Yeah you've an issue ^^
Try these attributes :
11+1+1 Fire 10+1 Earth 10+1 Energy storage
SeraCombi
thx i'll try that way
Tab
12+1+2 Fire (9e breakpoint on Mind Blast)
10+1 Earth
8+1 Ene
Would probably be better.
10+1 Earth
8+1 Ene
Would probably be better.
jaeharys targaryen
9 e break point is that important, tab?
Tab
When it's triggering every 3 seconds, it adds up.
Moloch Vein
Is 9 ES enough? Are we talking PvP or PvE?
Tab
Generally with 9ES + a fire offhand, you'll have around 70 max energy, which should be enough, assuming you don't try to Mind Blast eles.
starrlamia
The build I use for my ele works really well, and never runs out of energy, you can of course substitute most spells if you want but I find it works really well.
flare
liquid flame
breath of fire
immolate
energy blast
fire storm
ether prism
flesh of my flesh
my attributes: fire 12+3+1, energy storage 11+1 and the rest in resto for flesh of my flesh.
Works good for me as a generic PVE build, of course you can fine tune it and change skills to work in certain areas. Never runs out of energy and you can spam several of the skills while others are recharging.
flare
liquid flame
breath of fire
immolate
energy blast
fire storm
ether prism
flesh of my flesh
my attributes: fire 12+3+1, energy storage 11+1 and the rest in resto for flesh of my flesh.
Works good for me as a generic PVE build, of course you can fine tune it and change skills to work in certain areas. Never runs out of energy and you can spam several of the skills while others are recharging.
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by starrlamia
flare
liquid flame
breath of fire
immolate
energy blast
fire storm
ether prism
flesh of my flesh That's... pretty bad. I wouldn't recommend anyone else run that.
I don't feel like quoting the 10 posts I'm talking about, so lern2scrollup.
-Mind blast builds are one of the few spots where you should probably run a sup rune. 16 spec allows you to get 10e back, as opposed to 8e at 14 spec. Subtract out the 5e for casting the spell, and it's the difference between gaining 3 energy per cast and 5 energy per cast, a 66% improvement. Admittedly, it's also wise to bring along a spare helm to switch to if you get DP.
-Running around 70-75 energy is enough that it will trigger on just about anything you feel like. If you need to use it on an ele by a twist of fate, bring a +30e/-2 regen set.
-Wards are just one of the things you can run. Personally, I tend to run /mo with aegis and extinguish. In AB, I tend to run /D for mystic regeneration and occasionally mirage cloak. The idea is that you have an assload of energy to spend on utility, don't feel limited to elementalist spells only.
liquid flame
breath of fire
immolate
energy blast
fire storm
ether prism
flesh of my flesh That's... pretty bad. I wouldn't recommend anyone else run that.
I don't feel like quoting the 10 posts I'm talking about, so lern2scrollup.
-Mind blast builds are one of the few spots where you should probably run a sup rune. 16 spec allows you to get 10e back, as opposed to 8e at 14 spec. Subtract out the 5e for casting the spell, and it's the difference between gaining 3 energy per cast and 5 energy per cast, a 66% improvement. Admittedly, it's also wise to bring along a spare helm to switch to if you get DP.
-Running around 70-75 energy is enough that it will trigger on just about anything you feel like. If you need to use it on an ele by a twist of fate, bring a +30e/-2 regen set.
-Wards are just one of the things you can run. Personally, I tend to run /mo with aegis and extinguish. In AB, I tend to run /D for mystic regeneration and occasionally mirage cloak. The idea is that you have an assload of energy to spend on utility, don't feel limited to elementalist spells only.
Tab
Ether Prism Flare spam ftw.
starrlamia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
That's... pretty bad. I wouldn't recommend anyone else run that.
. Hey it works for me, and it works well, it's a build I can run in almost anything.
To each their own though.
. Hey it works for me, and it works well, it's a build I can run in almost anything.
To each their own though.
kahmal_oakenshield
Quote:
Originally Posted by starrlamia
To each their own though.
Ain't that the truth. People don't seem to realize that what works great for one person blows ass for another. My points are in fire and ES only. My skills are fire and es only. So, I don't bring a rez (screw em!) and AoR works well for me. I think I get something like 320%. With Rodgorts used very often, it adds up well. I don't use it to tank. I don't use it to avoid kiting. I use it typically when I catch the attention of a ranger and he's gotten a couple shots off on me. With 371 health, a couple shots puts me close to 1/3 health. With AoR on, I don't have to hope that a monk will notice before I get hit. I just have to kite away until the npc isn't paying attention, then cast as much as I can as fast as I can. Would I die without it? Um, no. Does it allow me to get a few casts in while under ranged fire instead of having to run right off the bat? Yep. Does it take the pressure off of my healer teammates a little? I like to think so.
And mind blast is a great spell, but only early in the battle. I start with I think 90 energy and end most fights with maybe 30. Having a spell I can only use for half the battle is no good to me. I'm biased against any skill that has a condition attached to it to get max use out of it. That's why I use Liquid Flame instead. Good damage and it's extra effect happens most of the time. I can see why others use it and like it, but like I said, I'm biased against all skills that have a requirement to fufill. I think I've been playing M:TG too long.
And mind blast is a great spell, but only early in the battle. I start with I think 90 energy and end most fights with maybe 30. Having a spell I can only use for half the battle is no good to me. I'm biased against any skill that has a condition attached to it to get max use out of it. That's why I use Liquid Flame instead. Good damage and it's extra effect happens most of the time. I can see why others use it and like it, but like I said, I'm biased against all skills that have a requirement to fufill. I think I've been playing M:TG too long.
starrlamia
See I think what a lot of people dont realize is that it isnt fun to just go and find a cookie cutter build that another person has built and use it. I think one of the best parts of the game is expirimenting with builds and skills and finding what you like and what works for how you want to play.
Hell if you want to use AoR then use it, I dont because it doesnt help how I have my guy set up. There are so many infinite ways to play a char in this game. The only time I look for builds is to set up heroes in classes I havent played, and to get ideas on how I can tweak mine. I never would just use a build taken from another player. Boring.
The only time I use energy blast is with ether prism, you are right that it doesnt make sense otherwise. I just cast ether prism and energy blast right after to get full effect.
Hell if you want to use AoR then use it, I dont because it doesnt help how I have my guy set up. There are so many infinite ways to play a char in this game. The only time I look for builds is to set up heroes in classes I havent played, and to get ideas on how I can tweak mine. I never would just use a build taken from another player. Boring.
The only time I use energy blast is with ether prism, you are right that it doesnt make sense otherwise. I just cast ether prism and energy blast right after to get full effect.
Seveneyes
Quote:
Originally Posted by starrlamia
See I think what a lot of people dont realize is that it isnt fun to just go and find a cookie cutter build that another person has built and use it. I think one of the best parts of the game is expirimenting with builds and skills and finding what you like and what works for how you want to play.
Hell if you want to use AoR then use it, I dont because it doesnt help how I have my guy set up. There are so many infinite ways to play a char in this game. The only time I look for builds is to set up heroes in classes I havent played, and to get ideas on how I can tweak mine. I never would just use a build taken from another player. Boring.
The only time I use energy blast is with ether prism, you are right that it doesnt make sense otherwise. I just cast ether prism and energy blast right after to get full effect. The most accurate post in this topic!!
I only use build guides to influence the build I decide to make. Despite this my ele build is built around studying all the skills and basically trying them out.
In my opinion the best elite skill is savannah heat... which can be used to devasting effects combined with searing heat and/or rodgorts.
mind blast is good, but its only so much better than glowing gaze (really only with small damage and 6 secs recharge). But glowing gaze works perfectly with imolation.
The aim of fire is always to cause as much damage as poss to an 'area'. And because of this I think its more important to have an area damage elite over an energy management one.
To topic starter:
But this is all my opinion. Take it or leave it, the important thing is to have a build your happy with
Hell if you want to use AoR then use it, I dont because it doesnt help how I have my guy set up. There are so many infinite ways to play a char in this game. The only time I look for builds is to set up heroes in classes I havent played, and to get ideas on how I can tweak mine. I never would just use a build taken from another player. Boring.
The only time I use energy blast is with ether prism, you are right that it doesnt make sense otherwise. I just cast ether prism and energy blast right after to get full effect. The most accurate post in this topic!!
I only use build guides to influence the build I decide to make. Despite this my ele build is built around studying all the skills and basically trying them out.
In my opinion the best elite skill is savannah heat... which can be used to devasting effects combined with searing heat and/or rodgorts.
mind blast is good, but its only so much better than glowing gaze (really only with small damage and 6 secs recharge). But glowing gaze works perfectly with imolation.
The aim of fire is always to cause as much damage as poss to an 'area'. And because of this I think its more important to have an area damage elite over an energy management one.
To topic starter:
But this is all my opinion. Take it or leave it, the important thing is to have a build your happy with
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by starrlamia
I never would just use a build taken from another player. Boring.
Then why are you posting your builds on an forum for other players to use?
starrlamia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Then why are you posting your builds on an forum for other players to use?
The same reason I read these forums and other people's builds, to get an idea of what other people are running, and their opinions, which may give me ideas on how to edit/fine tune etc builds I already use.