You're worthless

I believe they will get it right this time for GW2 as it is unforunate for us in GW.

Idealism < Common sense.

Greater work = Greater reward
Less work = Less reward

Again, you are reiterating communism.
I have no argument. Common sense is part of the innate and universal caldera of knowledge, the "gifts of birth". I'm simply appealing to the rational thinking that's probably stowed away somewhere in you covered by deceits, lies, and misinformation.

I'm just so curious as to whom these values belong to- why are destroyer weps the only things that matter? Do you simply mean by game logic, i.e. they are the most 'elite' thing because you can display them in HoM? If you don't find them entertaining, and a large part of the player base doesn't either, then why do they obliterate the meaning of every other possession? I think they look pretty stupid, so I'm not going to fuss over them. Other people really like them. Good for them.

I'm trying to discover why the game is completely unenjoyable without something that the game or the market defines as desirable.... Your point about wanting a sickle makes sense, but this point seems arbitrary.

I'm not picking a side here but that's wrong. In the real world smarter work, not greater pays off. There are many people that work very hard for minimum wage whereas some guy that's gets lucky or plays it smart makes a ton of money.

Agreed stupid people not crafting the dwarven axe in eotn because "IT ISNT A GOLD ITEM"...

HOLD ON!! When did this thread switch from QQ'ing about bad drops to the merits/problems with communism?!?! I MEAN GROW UP please... it seems that this thread has gotten just a little bit off track.

Anyways, you have over 3500 hours of play time... YOU ARE NOT A CASUAL GAMER. Please do not try and hide behind the "casual" status to claim that the game is biased against you. I am not even over 1000 hours and I like to think that I am more than casual. I have had about the same luck with drops as you have (which is to say... nada) and I simply go out and play more until I get the money that I need to buy the things that I want. I still have Droks armour on my main char. I have all three campaigns and EotN, and more than enough to purchase a set of 15k armour for myself, but I do not because I like to hoarde money Again, functionality is for the casual gamer, rare skins are for the hardcore gamer.

I also disagree with the thoery that to farm is to be hardcore. When people say this, they are going from one extreme (casual) to the other (hardcore), with nothing in between. Farming is done for many reasons. Some people do it for money, and some do it for a challenge, and some do it because it is fun. The person who farms 20 minutes a day will never be a hardcore player in my eyes. If you detest farming and wouldn't be caught dead doing it, then rare skin weapons are not for you!

Also, as to the whole communism thing, to make a communitic MMO would be ummm, shall we say silly? Seriously, if we all had pheonixes, full obsidian armour, req 7 15^50 crystallines and Mini Pandas, would it really be that special? Communism is stated as the ideal society, but it always falls to human greed, and human greed is evident in spades in online games ( it wouldnt be fun to simply go through the story lines over and over again imho.) So I suggest that if what you are looking for is a game where you will never have to go the extra mile to get that leet-juice weapon, try Titan Quest, there is no shortage of gold in that game. For me, the staying power for GW (and all other RPG's for that mater) come from the thought of making your character(s) the best that they can be.

CALE

P.S. for anyone enjoying the political side of this thread, I suggest Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand. Great book about Objectivism/Egoism

You forget to mention (although my own economic ideals linger somewhere between the American fixed economy and lassez-faire) that this is a computer game. Where not everything applies. Where there are rules and limits to exchange.

And do you not deny, that someone should get what someone earns.

at least u got a green 5000 hrs over 8 months and no greens only ectos :P

Video Game: An electronic or computerized game played by manipulating images on a video display or television screen.

Fitz... I have an idea. Join reality. You seem to live in a fantasy world, and play in what you want to be reality. You quoted me in your response, but failed to read what I had written. You also say you don't care about 'coolness', but you want specific looks for you characters. It may not be cool to other people, but you want those items because it is cool to you.

I think its GOOD that you want specific looks for your characters. I don't care one bit about WHY you want those looks. However, you want those looks handed to you, and although you may not agree with it, there is a reason those looks are not easy to get.

Greater, in the sense of more productive, and more meaningful, not more amount (not calculated in hours, etc, but rather meaning).

Yeah right. I wish things still sold like that. The market ain't what it used to be buddy.


Oh and without quoting your whole rant about Robber Barons and Social Darwinism I would like to say one thing. The only reason Social Darwinism doesn't work is because we as human beings have eliminated the process of natural selection from our day to day lives. There was a time when people like you who are apparently unwilling to work for what they want were allowed to just sit without working until they starved to death. Unfortunately we "progressed" to the point where we coddled the weak and the deviant and said,"Poor baby,it's not your fault you can't function so we'll take care of you." Which is a humane but ultimately stupid way to go about things since it will eventually lead to the downfall of homo sapiens sapiens as a species. We'll continue to breed in weakness until eventually we're little more than ass scratching chimpanzees who play video games and still want stuff given to us for nothing.

This Game is like real life,you want Leet stuff you have to work for it.....
This thread this bores me I AM Out...

Wow, after all the changes ANet has made over the last few months, making max, gold, once rare skins, inscribable and so incredibly common and easy to get that 99% of all GW items are virtually worthless, and making damned near every skin available as a collector or green item with every possible combination of mods, there are STILL people crying that they want MORE handed to them for little to no effort. It never friggin end with some people. Almost everything in this game is so close to free it’s ridiculous, you people were given everything you wanted, at the expense of a large group of people who have lost a considerable amount of what they considered fun about this game, and you STILL WANT MORE. Amazing!

If it was a case that people playing in Hard Mode were able to get items that were better stats or higher armour then there may be a point to the OP.

However seeing as the game is designed to allow everyone to get to level 20 quickly, everyone have the same armour stats for their profession quickly, and everyone to have access to same stat weapons pretty early in the game, how can anyone complain that the casual player is hard done by?

Rare drops are rare, and expensive, however they have the same stats as any other weapon, and sometimes are not even maxed out. Elite armour is no different to any other armour. The only difference between these items and the common oes is a pretty skin, sometimes, and the difficuty in getting them.

They don;t affect gameplay however, so why whine about the inabilty to get them? I play hard mode and normal and i really dont notice a difference in the loot when I'm out with H/H. I usually end up witht the same monetary value, abliet sometimes gettign the odd gold and chests are better.

Only the solo farmer will notice a massive diference.

The simple fact that many people such as the OP need to realize is that the system is not perfect and there is no perfect RPG system. The OP wants items that suit how he thinks his character should look, but those items are in high demand, or are rare, so they cost gold, and he doesn't want to put in the time to get them himself or get the gold. Well yes, they could change the system, so every item was available from collectors, but then you're screwing over the other half of the population by removing any incentive to play after you beat a campaign. What would people do if they beat the game, and were handed every item they could possibly want with minimal effort? Would there be any real goals? What would the people who do play more then the casual gamer do? Farming for items is out, trying to obtain elite armor is out, farming for gold is out, all because all those things would be able to be done easily in a small amount of time in order to appease the casual players who want everything.

The system as it is is a great compromise and better solutiuon to the problems other games face. In other RPGs, the more time you put in, the better the items you get, and the easier the game becomes for you because of the increasing quality of the armor or items, which means casual players cannot accomplish alot of the game content because it is too hard to do without high quality items (For example, try Raiding or Pvping in WoW with white gear or stuff you buy from shops, you're at a huge disadvantage). GW compromises by making it so anyone, regardless of the amount of time you play can obtain the same functional level of equipment. For the people who do have more time to play and are more determined, there are rare skins and eye candy but in the end, everyone is on the same level. There is no real gap between casual and hardcore gamers because they're all capable of the same thing, the only differences are cosmetic, and even those cosmetic effects can be obtained with luck.

In the end though, complaining that hardcore gamers have an advantage and that you should have access to everything is just petty and childish. Its like complaining that the lottery is unfair because people who spend more time and money playing have better chances then people who spend minimal time or money. Get over it, that is simply how life is, there is no fair solution where everyone is happy.

I don't see any problem with HM having better rare drops than NM. However, I want the freaking loot scaling lifted. Its the stupid thing that make PvE boring to death.

Loot has always been a problem in GW since you can get equal quality items in pretty much any colour.
I have a winged shield, def 16, inscribable, req 8 tactics....it's blue.

Greens are now so cheap (mostly thanks to solo farming as they rarely drop for you in party set up) that it's not worth it anymore to get your gold and mod it since the "rare'' skins are plentyful and mods relatively expensive.

A forgotten sword costs 10k...+30hp for a sword costs at least that.

But the point of the game makers was that everybody, including the most casual players can get a sword that is req9, 20/20, +30hp max damage and that is the case.
Finish NF or factions or GWEN and you can pick one ....whether it's the sword, bow or whatever.
Anybody can get max defence armour. But to get some of the items you need to invest more time into it.
I would think that is a pretty good set up. The whole idea is that casual players are not at a statistical disadvantage due to equipment and this is how it is.
You want a perfect item? You need 10k or less these days. With some quests and mission rewards that is a very achievable goal for casual gamers.

Beyond that it is unfair to whine about people who got something for some efforts that you did not put in.

You don't sound sophisticated at all. You sound artificial, like you're speaking in an unnecessary stilted way to try to put yourself above everyone else. Don't pat yourself on the back so hard, you may break your spine.

No, the game does not owe you anything. You said you've played for 3,686 hours and haven't been able to buy armor you "like?"... that begs the question, just what the hell have you been doing all that time? Assuming you've been playing for exactly two years, that's over one-fifth of that time! You can make so many hundreds of platinum in that length of time just by playing the game. I want to call you lazy, but I cannot possibly imagine what you could've been doing instead in such a long time that has apparently earned you so little money.

GW is for casual players as well as for those not-so-casual.

Don't make assumptions about how and why HM/Elite players are supposed to be playing hard mode. Some play for the challenge, some play for the thrill, many play for the drops. I have played GW for many hours, I am comfortable with HM, I don't consider myself an Elite player, that's just a snob term. Am I holding elite weapons? yes!! All the hours I have put in the game have resulted in some very nice drops.

if it's stupid.... why are you doing it???? Why put yourself through such torture to achieve a cyber title which basically is some little pixels on your screen spelling a couple of words?

who punished you??? Is somebody there forcing you to turn your computer on, open GW, play this game, go after stupid titles, and they punish you because you don't want to click on HM? My advise is, when they are not looking, close the game and try something else.

Fitz,

You are not a casual player - you have roughly twice the amount of play time I do logged in, and I have some achievements to my name, and probably 12x the gold.

Stop with the casual player garbage, the politico-social theory, and stop with this "ANet is killing us."

There's enough people running around with EotN high end crap so that you should know:

People aren't having that difficult of a time making money.

Its a sad trueth but today people want everything faster and easier than people used to. The world has changed, and the video game world is racing to catch up.

In the good old days(ie before sorrows furnace update) I could go week's between seeing a single Crystaline sword for sale at any price. Now I could probably WTB in 3 or 4 cities and get one with ease.

It used to be players went MONTHS without finding a gold drop or a max weapon in Tyria, now I get one every time I log on.

Granted that GW:EN and Prophicies are now where equal in scale, that being said however in the same length of time that GW:EN has been out I would guess that fewer than 100 Crystiline swords or max gold Fellblades had been found in prophicies. Yet there was not a massive rush to the forums from people demanding that they increase thier drop rates.

Now people wish to log in, kill one or two mobs and get a max perfect gold item, sell it for some crays 100K + XX ectos or ambraces and then sit in a town and preen over how good a player they are.

Yes this game is meant to be about skill rather than time spent, but time will never be completely removed from the game without completely destroying the value of playing it. Anyone can aquire max weapons and armor within a very short period of time after they create a new char, but if you want a rare or expensive item you will have to be patient.

Guild Wars is the most casual player friendly it has ever been, yet people still moan?!

Back in the day it could take months for a person to get a gold, now they drop in abundance, and with inscription slots!

There was no green items...
There was only FoW/UW to farm
Max armor at the end of the game, not the beginning..
No heroes

People have it easy these days, try going back 2 years and playing then.

Exactly what Malice said. I played back during the days of the beta. Had a terrible computer back then that couldn't quite keep it going, but I stuck it through with hench and played the game because I loved it. It was much harder to make cash back then and even the rare materials were more expensive.

Now the prices of everything has dropped and I'm sitting with 200k in my bank through "casual play". I've never been on hard mode either. That's right. Simply playing through the game on a few characters has netted me 200k in two weeks. A few golds here that I sold to the MERCHANT for 300 gold. A few runes here: MERCHANT again. Real players? I don't trade with them.

I remember playing a game where I had everything handed to me. I was done in a day.

I agree with OP. I keep on seeing these super-rare weapons for sale for exhorbitant prices, and I can't afford them. Why shouldn't I have a Kanaxai miniature? I mean, I've been playing this game for 2 and a half years and I've only been able to buy one set of Obsidian armor! I think my characters should start with Obsidian armor! I think we should all get Crystalline swords and Platinum staves right from the go, and then when we beat the game, we get ... uh ...

Well, that's beside the point. What we're arguing is that everything should be available to everyone. Maybe we could just have a command to do it, similar to /bonus. That way, everybody could have every rare skin in the game! How awesome would that be?

Everything is available to everybody,

the simple fact of the matter here is that its a lottery as to what you will get,

If everyone ran about witht the rare item that you want so badly then it woudln't be rare would it?

I remember a certain Gold mini coming out areound new year in the land of Cantha, when that mini was aquired through preents it was worth a small fortune. Then the final event occured, and everyone got the mini, and in fact managed to get multiples of it in some cases, I, myself, ended up with 5.

Whats it worth now? 2K if you are lucky,
Does anyone try and sell it anymore? not really
Is it on display all the time in towns? Nah

Give rares to everyone and the same thing will happen. Quite simply the economy will crash and burn.

So how many want to see a mini Panda drop from chest? Maybe yo will get a few saying it would be cool. Drop them for a year from chests and then see the price of the mini drop to nothing, and everyone not give a damn if you have one or not. Will you feel like you have got a nice little surprise with your panda when you have one? Not on your nelly. Why? Because the majority have one or could get one if they wanted to.

I got my first platinum longbow over a year ago, and i was extatic coz it was my first rare skin, i sold it for 70k and was extatic because it was a huge amount of money to me. I have had 3 more drop and now couldn't care less and couldnt sell them either. I don't want to feel this way about any rare item, making them easily aquirable simply makes no sense to me

I find complaints like these hilarious. People only want fancy things that are hard to get, and then complain because they're hard to get, and the whole time they don't actually need any of them because they are functionally identical to items available to everyone.

I love this game.

I wonder if other game designers have noted that you don't actually have to make elite items even marginally more powerful than their common brethren in order to have people busting their humps for them?

Too bad. You made yourself look like an idiot in your last thread because you were complaining about the dumbest shit.

No one cares, not many are sympathetic, and really,

WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR 12 HOURS IF YOU CAN ONLY AFFORD COLLECTOR WEAPONS?!

Exactly. People who say they only want a sword for its looks THEN complain because it's a max, fully moddable blue and not a gold really confuse me.

I've debated responding to this thread since it started - it's been a struggle because the issue that's really bugging me is the bullshit on both sides.

Firstly, I'm staggered that a player who has 10 toons and owns Nightfall has, apparently, *not* found a very obvious method of kitting them with plenty of r9 golds and acquired a heap of cash in the process (hint: treasures).

On the other hand, acting as though a player who finds themselves poorly kitted with a dull collector weapon and a couple of elemental mods, is a whiner for being disappointed, is equally irritating. Call me old fashioned, but I think players have a right to feel rewarded for progression in a game and their tools should be upgraded by default, rather than luck - and that is *NOT* always the case with Guild Wars, given the lottery of drops and reliance on the economy, that we face.

Jongo, my recently deleted ranger, reached the ring of fire islands in Prophecies, without ever getting a gold bow drop more interesting than a plain "Longbow" and he never received anything as useful as a zealous, vampiric or even a wretched sundering mod. Even come Nightfall, I still had to rely on the treasure/triple gold weekend farming of multiple characters to get a reasonable range of kit for any particular character.

I've nothing against uber rare items, but seeing the blandest of skins dropping in high end areas and never receiving a reasonable complement of "appropriate" items for a toon (presumably to encourage trade) was a major failing of early Guild Wars and still isn't entirely fixed.

I have done a lot of Hard Mode missions and vanquishes with my guild.
It's not like the perfect golds are suddenly raining down when you enter Hard Mode. Chances of getting a gold are indeed higher as in Normal Mode and the mods might be better, but that's about it.
In all those runs I have seen maybe 2 or 3 drops (for others) that I would consider good.
The rest were either merch or salvage items.
I kept some as hero items, but those are not perfect.

I also still play a decent amount of normal mode and drops there have not changed since the introduction of HM/loot scaling.
On my quest for Leg. Carto. I found several gold weapons, about the same quality average Hard Mode would give.
Because I was killing less foes than in a vanquish the drop rates are not totally comparable, but for me they seemed fair and in line with earlier NM experiences (from the time there was no HM).

Are people punished for playing Normal Mode?
Or rewarded for playing Hard Mode?
Well, that last one might be true, but most of that reward is gold drops which have better merchant value than white.
The occassional tome might drop, which saves 1K when you need a skill you already unlocked. However, you could also get the skill at the trainer, it would cost you more. Or buy a tome, regulars are about 500g (so you save 500g).

The items that would be in range of 100K+50 ecto would be either rare or hard to get.
Rare => lucky drop or bargain buy
Hard to get => farming gemstones for hours or buying them (would still cost a lot of gold) for torment weapons.

It's fairly simple. With rare items, you always have a market where the seller determines the price. This has nothing to do with Hard Mode/loot scaling and a lot with the droprate of those items.
With Hard Mode/loot scaling, for a lot of items the droprate increased, lowering their price already.

With the hard to get, you have to invest time.
If you don't want to invest that time, you need to buy that time from someone else.
Why would I sell a gemstone to you for 10K when it takes me about 1 hour to farm one on average and I can farm 20K somewhere else?
Add rarity to this and you know why those items are expensive.

In the end, for the NM 'casual player' as buyer on the market things got better, not worse with HM/loot scaling.
From income farming perspective things did not get better (lootscaling), but that was not the argument here.

All golds are purely vanity items, not one of them is needed to enhance your characters ability, they are entirely wanted for form over function and there is no argument against this in the slightest.

I suggest you review your rather bitter opinion on this matter, I can promise you you're IG experience will benefit greatly.

Played less then 1500 hours.
Got plenty of rare drops, 4 elite sets etc.
So I don't really see the OP's problem...

Well its 50/50 on being casual friendly.

Sorry for all those it appears that they had such a hard time back then as the vast majority I knew back then we NEVER had a problem with gold items or gold coins. The ones that only had a real problem was the ones that logged on for about an hour every once in awhile.

Greens werent even needed then and hey aren't needed now.
Sorry but there was way more than FoW/UW to farm.
Max armor was actually closer to 3/4 of the way through the game then the end.
Didnt need heros either henchies usually did fairly well, except everyones favorite tanking monk hench. I miss the days of alesia monking lol

But it still wasnt as bad as you guys make it to be. Hell I bought req 8 15^50 weapon for 7k in 2 months from the start of the game. wasnt a skin most people liked but it wasnt outrageous as lots claim of prices being rediculous either. As most people who actually played an RPG before would know if you didnt put in any effort you wont get anything. You know of that funny rumor where if you go out you kill something it dropped something. Gee I'd never thought rumors like would work on 90% of any RPG's lol.

The only difference in today as in 2 years go is the drop rate in ecto and shards.I do remember when it dropped better back 2 years ago than it does today.When I am in a 3 to 4 man team I never get drop and we can be down there for an hour.

Real casual gamers wouldn't give a flying hoot about any of these things. They'd be all willing to just drop the game and move onto another one. IMO

Except for my ascended armors, everything I own in Guild Wars is a product of luck. My 15^50 Storm bow was gotten from a chest in UW the first time I entered. My 15^50 Azure bow was again, a product of luck from a chest. Even my mini (longhair yeti... Melandru I love saying that...) was a winning from a competition. The ascended armors are just the outcome of me strolling along through the game, singing my happy tune, and picking up everything that drops. I'm probably not a casual player anymore, as I spend most of my time in hard mode, clearing out these nasty monster infestations. I am definitely not worthless, and I have farmed UW two times in my entire account history... during the free god realm event, and the time when I got my bow. Granted, I only focus on one character, but hey? You could do the same, and if you were so casual, why would you care about getting 10 characters to endgame?

So because you do not like looking at greens, no matter the stats, and because you want high end skins versus what's offered to you at collectors, and because you do not want to gather 15 plat to go get any non elite armor, you say that you're entitled to have items that fit the look you want exactly?

Pure bullshivism. The collectors may not have every style you want, but if you think you're entitled to the nicer armors and the better skins of weapons for the same price as the collectors, then you need to wake up. You should be glad the collectors are there. Weapons with those sort of stats should cost a lot more than 250 gold and 50 wood IMO.

With a higher challenge, a higher reward is not only justified, it is implied. I wouldn't go out into Hard Mode if it didn't offer better rewards. They say the want a challenge because with a challenge COMES greater rewards than an area that is not challenging. I shouldn't have to ask for level 26 mobs to drop better things then level 16 mobs. It's a bit implied, don't you think?


Straight up bull crap.

You have access to hundreds of skills in this game. Over 1000 in fact. There are many that reducde damage greatly, heal you when you're damaged, and even prevent it at all. Learn to use them. Nothing is that hard that you cannot hope to do it at all.

Has no chance against what? There's no big race here to beat out everyone else, especially the ones who gain an unfair advantage. The only race you're running against others is the vain one in your head. And not only hackers and botters have FoW armor. Plenty of honest players make a very well earned and very large salary, with which they easily compare to the botters.

And since when do you agree to accept game mechanics or not? They're there, whether you like it or not. They're out of your control. Luck is a part of everything in this game, just as the casual player can be lucky and move up, or be unlucky and stay down. It's not a theory. Luck of the draw on drops, mission completion, and all game mechanics is fact. Like it or not.


Worst one yet. Most greens are ugly, useless, or both? While a majority of greens may not have the PERFECT skin and the PERFECT stats, there are many that do. I suggest you look some up on wiki. A lot of greens come with the same stats as perfect golds do, at about 1/10 the price. And for that, you expect them to have the greatest skins of all time? Yeah, great logic there. "I want a cheap weapon that works perfect and looks 1337". Stop whining. Greens are indeed very useful weapons. As for the skin, if you want the reward, then go work for it. Don't complain that you have to lift your finger to get nice looking things.


And where do you get the idea that they don't want you farming these areas?

You're saying that you want mountains of gold and gold drops instead of blues and whites, for farming an area that is not hard at all, while getting beneficial SS and LB points?

Wrong. Why should you be rewarded in that manner for that? Especially while recieving other rewards. That's not a challenge it all. Maybe the worst whine ever. "I want an easy farming area that gives me nice things while giving me nice points". Idiot.





This is not a thread, it is a whine. The whole package is one big complaining mass. "I have to work to get things... bohoo. And I don't want to use things with the same stats that are cheaper because they are ugly! And I want everything handed to me! I shouldn't have to grind or work to be rewarded!"

If you don't like work, then you don't reap the rewards. End of story. Worthless whining. I hope you get blues and whites for the rest of your pathetic career.

You know what the title of this thread wants to make me do? /wrists

You know what the Hall of Monuments makes me want to do? I'll give you a hint, it's the same thing this thread title makes me want to do.

NO! That is a player tha enjoys playing Railroad Tyccon or other economy simulations, where the major point is to earn money.

For a 14 year old maybe, but there are players that think something is fancy because it looks fancy, no matter how rare it is.