You're worthless

You can't be a casual player and have leetsauce gear at the same time. It may have been true before Nightfall came out but not anymore. Its basically come down to if you want it, you have to work your ass off to get it.

This is so not true. In fact, it's the exact opposite.

1st point: Ever since Prophecy, new characters get more money (and more stuff for free! Look at Nightfall, with free bags, kits and even a min. vigor rune!)

2nd point: Prices on armor has gone down. Ancient is 10k, and all GWEN armor is 10k.

3rd Point: Green prices have crashed. Even the Mallyx Greens from Nightfall have been duped in GWEN. Speaking of GWEN, what about all those rare items dropping now? From mobs.

I just can't see how anyone can argue GW has gotten more Elite. With each Chapter, it's gotten easier and easier for the casual player to get leet stuff.

I think maybe the premise of the thread rests on a lot of assumptions about 'how the other half live' which are possibly unfounded. OP you seem to attribute a lot of motivation to 'elite' players- how do you know they think they are awesome and are holding others to ransom? 100k + e prices partly happen because people have had the game for 2 years and can afford to pay that for something they want (even casual players, if they play a few hours every week for over 100 weeks?), not because some evil conspiracy of 'elite' players decided to go out and target 'casual' players and make their lives a misery.

Isn't it conceivable that the players you denote as 'elite' are just enjoying the game on their own level, and that it's the beauty of Guild Wars that you can enjoy it as a casual or a hardcore devotee? You complain that the casual gamer can't get the good drops (which I thoroughly disagree with, unless you're talking HoH chest drops or Torment weapons- everything else is do-able), but if there was no hardmode and no rewards for putting a lot of time into the game then 'hardcore' gamers would have a valid complaint that there wasn't much to seek out in the game, nothing to aim for. I was under the impression that that's what the crazy title races in GWEN were for- more aims. Guild wars is a better game if it has something for both parties.

Basically, I think it's wrong to spit 'elite gamer' and attribute bad motivations to these people. They're not all FoW warriors who yell 'nub' at you in the streets of Kaineng. An elite gamer could be a person in a great family guild who bands together, groups with real people thus improving everyone's experience, contributes to the community and just happens to have the hours in their lives, and love of Guild Wars, to dedicate to the game. I know the most 'elite' gamer out of my friends, with the most maxed titles, desirable equipment, sets of FoW and filled storage accounts is just looking for her own kicks in the game, not to disadvantage the poor little casuals.

So..... consider your attitude towards the 'elite', and if you want the rewards of the hardcore, get prepared to go hardcore, as you've already demonstrated the will to do with your pursuit of LDoA. The game is infinitely playable without doing so- enjoy it.

(Edit: And in agreement with lots of other posters- you never had it so good, pesky kids! Stuff is cheaper all the time.)

Re-reading the OP, I have to wonder what "elite" stuff we're talking about here...

And to back up Kahlindra, most "leet" players I know are very generous!

The way I see it, equipment is more about functionality than vanity. Strictly speaking, nobody needs a fancy weapon or a fancy set of armor, considering that you can get equipment that does exactly the same thing for a very modest amount of gold (or if you go to collectors, no gold at all).

Though I do agree that some of the high end items being sold off ingame by other players are somewhat overpriced. My guild runs a different trade system - if one of us finds an item (high end or otherwise) that someone else in the guild would be interested in, it's traded for ingame assistance instead of for gold. A high-end item like an elemental sword might be worth help in vanquishing an area or two, or helping to get Masters for a tough mission.

Also, and this is only my opinion, I think that some of the cheaper options for max equipment are the most attractive. For example, the Katana craftable at Kaineng Center is a beautiful sword; both simple and elegant in design, complements many of the local armor arts beautifully, and you don't see it being used that often. And the cost of it doesn't break the bank.

A video game is not just about what you see, it's about how you play as well. It doesn't matter that your character is equipped with the rarest equipment if you have difficulty organising your skills effectively; that applies to all games, and not just this one.

This is a good and well-expressed counter-point to the OP's complaint that you have to RP with the vision of your character you have in your mind etc. If you just think crystallines and elementals are attractive, you've been influenced by hype and the market. If you're really looking at it through the eyes of characterization, I doubt these would be the weapons you chose.

the point of this thread makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. so the op wants "good" looking items but can't afford them, despite the fact that they are functionally equivalent to collector items (or end-game greens)? *sigh*

anyone remember when the mini-pig first came out? it was a really rare mini-pet because it only came out of those little bags. everyone wanted a mini-pig. prices were astronomical. then the celestial pig came and basically gave everyone in attendance multiple mini-pigs. prices dropped, and no one wanted them anymore. so what's the lesson here? people want rare items because it makes them feel special. when the item is no longer rare, people don't want them anymore because everyone else has one.

in this instance, whining will only fall on deaf ears. personally i only use free weapons (collector or end-game green) or anything else i might find. i would never buy a 100k+x ecto item because i care more about function over form.

Ah, the population of Guild Wars today. No, I'm not talking about your chances of having a solution, no, I'm just going back to when Prophecies was the only campaign. No one was that picky. This mentality that just because a weapon isn't max, or isn't gold or green, has been brought on by the other campaigns. And the other campaigns brought on a new wave of players with a different way of thinking: if it isn't perfect, it isn't worth it.

God, how I miss the "old" days.

One thing I really like about GW is that all the benefits that come from being 'hardcore' (other than elite skills), are cosmetic.

A casual player can get a decent character on casual time - as I mentioned in my last post, the point at which I have max stat gear is early. After that, all the rares, high cost items, and so on that come from being harcore are simply cosmetic - they make you look better.

As a mostly casual (I recently started farming elite skills, so I'm not casual there) player, I have zero problem with that.

That skill matters more than time, in some ways, is also important here. Time will increase skill (I can attest to this personally. ), but time without skill will not make you better than skill without time.
- For PvP players, the game is still all about skill (in my opinion), rather than time. They all start with the same max gear, and all that time will let them do is look better PvPing each other. Skill on the other hand, will let an ugly toon beat a pretty one any day.

@OP

Keep 5 of every monster drop from a region and you can get great max items dirt cheap (almost free). Max Stat armor only cost 1.5p.

Runes may cost you small sum but by the time of going through a campaign, or doing dungeon dives in EOTN should be able to afford any rune you need.

Now when it comes to EOTN HoM unlocks - You have to do a lot of work to do get most of the unlocks and for multiple character.. it's not for the casual player.

Try again. I have total: 3,686 hours play in GW. In the last 4 months I show an average 12.575 hrs/day (1,509/120 days). I have put max armor that by and large I do not like on almost all of my characters (One in Pre working on LDoA). I have put collectors weapons I do not care for on my characters.

Evidently you cannot, because you are wrong. This is an FRG, MMO style. Saying, "You could certainly have this fantasy if you buy on-line gold for it," is not acceptable. And the reward system, the restricted reward system with the plethora of gold sinks, in GW says exactly that.

I do not give a rats ass about looking cool. I want to establish the persona that is appropriate for the character I an expressing for my entertainment. I think some of what is supposed to be fantastic in game belongs back in the Art Decco drug testing facility where it was generated. However, do not get me wrong - there are nice pieces of artwork throughout the game that make the other for the most part ignorable, and a great deal that is simply there. I do not observe art from a "cool, that will get me laid" or "wow, that is sexy" perspective. And I do not Ever bother to look for things in trade because If someone had the audacity to tell me they wanted 100k + 50 ectos for something I would tell them to use it as toilet paper and hope you get hemrhoids. Therefore, I simply will not bother because those wipes exist.

Sorry, here you can only be incorrect. The entire function of a Video game is to be visual, to look decent. If this were not the case then the only video game that would have ever been invented would have been Pong and we would never have advanced as far as Frogger.

No one should Ever allow themselves to be so controlled by others as to think their life should be defined in "coolness" by the cost of something. Your life is defined and only defined by the mode of its expression. When anyone lets others tell them that rarity or fashion is supposed to make what best expresses them unaffordable or unattainable in their lives then they should immediately take up any means that will allow them to change their world. (Where I live right now in a farming community of 326, 20 miles from the nearest grocery, we are having to fight tooth and nail for the right of land owners to own chickens on their own property. And the problem comes from some allowing others to define country life as unprogressive and dirty. A law outlawing others lives and way they would express their life is no different than saying someone is not allowed personal expression because you want to control their fashion, and someone wants to call me communist.)

Do people play for a second rate fantasy to mock second rate lives? Why is one supposed to leave the real world of "you can't touch this" just to enter a fantasy world of "you can't touch this either"? And saying that people who are in Nightfallen Jahai (Normal Mode) playing casually (or because they are handicapped to some degree as I do know of people with MS or who are deaf that play) are some how worth-less than those superior/elite persons in HM and therefore deserve worth-less drops in gold and status is inappropriate. You don't put people in a wheel chair in the same Olympics, but they are not excluded from the same recognition of effort - or told they have to make do with collector's wheels.

Consider me a professional casual - all I have is spare time. I do not play to be elite. I don't really give a damn about what the rest of you think of me or I wouldn't be straight up front with you in the forums. I would be nice, sweet, and coy. Being elite is about worrying about other people's size at the urinal and I don't have that kind of issue in my life.

This assumes we are not playing a video game with visual implications. Role playing requires the appearance. I find it ironic that the Ascolonian Air Staff skin is found max on a green weapon in Bahdza and no where in all of Prophecies. Nor can you get that skin in any kind of max modifiable variation anywhere; this in spite of the story line that Ascalonian mages are renowned for their air magic.

So, anyone can get a tome drop - HM or not - and that kind of access to skills does not affect one's play... And one armor in Nightfall does not cost over 260k? Then there is the extreme expense of keys for chests (no I do not bother to buy keys - I'm not fooled by that gold sink either). Titles are not a part of playing the game to fill in the HoM? (Never any expense involved in those - afterall, the dwarves are just wandering the countryside handing out ale.) It doesn't cost anything ever to go into FoW to do quests, because we do not place players into castes of elite and the "others".

I have done HM in various places. Even have a few cleared for fun at this point. I certainly wouldn't recommend solo farming say the Skyway in HM - maybe bond farming, but not solo.

• The expectation that one is doing it for the reward instead of for the satisfaction.
• The expectation of getting items one can sell at extreme prices because others cannot get them.

Both of these points are based on a form of immodesty that is innappropriate and corrupt. It is like modern medicine in America today - a practice based on prescribing medical procedures and medicines for the kick-backs a doctor gets from the corporations instead of for the health and welfare and best performance of their oath. It destroys the game in the same way that the other inflates and destroys American healthcare.

In Neverwinter Nights, when I want to create and play a certain character I create and play that certain character. I generate the level, make the specific magic items, and play the role I write out to play. When you assume this is about my comparison of my self against someone else, you are wrong. As I said above, I do not have the peeking at the urinal problem that many players in this game seem to have. I have played both HM and NM and have too much to do in game to bother with farming in HM. Which is the only thing HM can be for. It certainly is not for fresh characters.

Also, to assume that the only reason I want to see better drops in game is for myself would be incorrect. The entire game is a manifestation of grind aimed at keeping players so busy with non-sense that they can either play the game or grind for the other stuff - but never both. Unless ofcourse you are myopically fixed on one character and one class only and then complain because, with 9 other classes to learn and characters to fully develop, you have nothing to do.

Like already stated by previous posts you are perfectly effective with just the max armor and collector/green weapons. If you want good stuff you need to play and get better at the game. They are called "elite/rare" skins for a reason. If you belive everyone should be the same then great. But it will never happen. Some people have been playing longer and are more expierenced and have the money for elite stuuf. I'm a casual player who has never scammed anyone. I have 3 chacters with 15k armor and the money to buy elite skins if I wanted them. I have played a little over a year and have beaten all the "Elite" areas. Just take your time if you really want to be an expert player with money and vanity items then just keep playing. I'm not suggesting that your communist for wanting everyone to be equal, but there will always be someone better than you. It's not because the scam, e-bay items, or have no lives they just get the game better than you. If you think the only way for someone to be better than you is to cheat then your are very self centerd. And if you really want to look cool then just mod your game so you have cooler weapons/armors. No one else will care and youll be happy looking badass. Just play and join a helpful guild. You need to practice anything to become good at it.
/rant over

Wow if that is true and you are complaining about not getting money, get out of pre or something. I play 1-3 hours a day 4-5 days a week and average around 50K a week. (I spend maybe 5 total hours a week farming) you play alot of time to be complaining about being broke and not having elite gear.

You prob need to goto the farming forum and hit PvXwiki for some new builds.

In 1509 hours, I have never seen a max fiery gladius. That is ok. I don't really want one - just thought it would be a lark for my P/W when he would go to lower end areas to play around. In 1509 hours, I have never seen a max sickle (the real sickle skin) to put on my Derv whose name means "Singing Sickle-King" in an old Central Asian dialect. I never found a max gold scythe for him - tho I was given one by a neighbor. In days to weeks of farming the Skyway, I never found a max cockatrice staff one - and none that I would use. I never found a max Celestial Sword that was useable. And ofcourse now, if it is not a Destroyer weapon then it means nothing. And there isn't a single Destroyer weapon I find entertaining for any reason other than to put it in the HoM and then hope I can throw it away so I can have space in my inventory. I have trapsed through the fire islands repeatedly and I have never seen a single Magmas shield drop once, never seen a max Jade Horn Bow - not that it would matter since the stats would be horrid and unchangeable. I have just mapped all of South Shivers and the Fire Islands with my ranger and gotten nothing.

There is No Such Thing as a vanity item. There will Never Be Such a Thing.

I am well aware of this.
I do not think the only way for someone to play better than I do is to cheat. I do know that the only reason the extreme prices are so prevalent in the game is because GW has promoted cheating through restriction of drops and exploits they failed to bother with in a timely manner for the last two plus years.

I have well over 3k hours in game. It is not about looking "cool" which is for sheeple. It is about looking right for my character. Modding is for comp wizzes and people richer than I am. And it does nothing for the game. A modded collector sword from outside of Elona's Reach (which is a sword I like btw) is useless and has no value because of HoM.

I hate farming. I loathe and detest farming. I should not be forced to farm to obtain the things I want playing the game. I have farmed. I bought max armor for all my characters not in Pre (the one working LDoA, which I also detest working on and loathe those that insist it never be changed to something enjoyable because they suffered through it without the brains to seek for something better). I bought supers of vigor for all of my max armors ( and amazingly - with no one else on the account, no one else having access to my computer, etc. most of those have magically disappeared. - which of course I can't prove and ANet wouldnt give a damn if I could.)

Communism, much?

Your entire argument is flawed. This is a video game and is defined loosely as such, as the term is not taken literally but rather figuratively.

To spare you the long post: if you want hardcore items, then play hardcore. If you don't want it, then don't. If you want to sound sophisticated, let me speak in your language.

In manifestation of human competence, capitalism and capitlization of inherent and innate specifications have endured over centuries, and for this has culminated in modern societal mainstream theories, specificially application of concepts, that have in turn brought upon the emphasis and meaning to effort as per time. Rather than the equally poverished communists, or the lopsided pyramid of distribution displayed by the god-kings of ere, efficiency has grown with increasing force, and the value of productivity has grown. What this has resulted in, therefore, is the choice, as among a palette of options, for individuals to choose from, to, as to quote a writer in the American industrial age, "rise and fall on merit", or in this case, win and lose on personal preference. It is an impossibility to revert to the masses - even modern international governments are showing signs of weakness - and therefore individuality has chugged forward in strength, and it is upon your decision to pump the coal or stay behind.

Hard mode is for casual gamers! True, some hard mode areas are harder than others, but it is possible to find hard mode areas that are easy to do. Start on the easier ones and work your way up!

I think the OP is looking for Diablo 2. If you don't get what you want at the end of the day, go make it . Fitz, you play WAAAAAYY more than I ever could, and I have storage full of awesome skins with perfect mods. I will even sell them cheap, if you'd like, no 100k plus e. Nothing more than 5k. And I got them all maxing out LB/SS or playing through EotN. I do not "farm" for drops or gold. I do title hunt, but I'm lucky if I can get 2 or three hours twice a week.

I know this is hard to do, but have you considered that you might not be thinking correctly about this? A lot of people keep making communism remarks. It's not very friendly, but it is an accurate description of your requests. If no one agrees with you, and ANet and NCSoft or attempting to make a game that pleases their users, who do you think they will cater to? Just some thoughts. I hope you find a game that pleases you on all fronts. They are meant for entertainment, after all.

PS. There are definitely vanity items. Note the spectacles on my avatar.

They never were. You could never get a "OMGWTFBBQHOTSAUCE" item outside ascalon before HM. They were all non-max damage from what I've seen over my time playing.

Kick the communist out of guildwars.

/not sarcasm.

1 Run through an elite mission will get you ample zodiacs. There ya go.

My political position is so much more complicated than the elementary text book crap you quote as to leave it behind. The age of the Robber Barrons fell to the 4th political realignment for a reason - it rellied too heavily on simplistic ideas of the march of history to the drum of Social Darwinism. That is the underpinning of and flaw of your entire argument. Social Darwinism fails because effectiveness is rarely passed from generation to generation in a meaningful form, and the efficiencies established in the lore of one generation are useless to the emergencies of the next.

I do not sound "sophisticated" because I am a liar. I express what immediately comes to mind, and only that which is natural to my experience. You do not see false colored thinking in my penmanship.

You are historically inaccurate to say that capitalism and capitalization have endured over the centuries, for together in their present form they are young only. And in previous occurences, separate from one another while other venues ruled or policies of religion and state altered, they have not existed in their current form. But as to the idea the effort and time are one and the same you should look to the origin of money in the West Coast of Africa. Where people originated currency as a way of appeasing that part of another's time/soul that went into an object during its making. For their word for time and soul is the same. And they treat religiously the ideal that one's effort/labor imparts into the product a portion of one's time/soul. And so the receiver of that product must make a payment/sacrifice to it in order to avoid being cursed.

The problem for impoverishment in the second world nations is one of perception of obligation. Any system will work if the people in it will make it work. The military system is a communistic system by nature, and one that is dictatorial. Community over emphasized leads to the quelling of individual initiative. It must be the obligation of the individuals to counter-balance that in their own daily effort, because the systemic energy is once sided. The West, and specifically my nation - the United States, has emphasized individuality and anti-community rhetoric to the point of nearly decimating all community and creating a base anti-society society (hence the Libertarian Movement as its fullest expression). Only by making up the difference, and people working at being neighbors, in neighborhoods, in the social structures which are inate to our species, can that imbalance be dealt with and energies not arise which will result in the end of my nation. That one should put forth effort to attain merrit is not new, and in fact is a common characteristic shared by our cousins Pan trog. We have not questioned that merit be a factor in attainment, but that those who seek extra-ordinary risk for the sake of extra-ordinary risk then undermine the value of their action by seeking rewards setting themselves apart from - and superior in soul to, their fellows. If the action is not suficient to the merit then bribery does not make it justified.