Alright, since the addition of the GW:EN heroes I've been thinking of various ways to create a synergy team of all N for general use. I've also seen some attempts to do this on the board, some of which have been reportedly very successful.
So, I've put together a multitude of builds that when combined is supposed to create a working team machine. It's designed to easily combat most enemies in most environments.
I have done a fair bit of testing these builds in 4- to 8-man areas. Nolani Academy was vanquished very easily with no deaths, but that's not a hard mission. A four man team was also enough to kill most of the enemies in Frozen Forest - a vanquish might have been possible but I stopped at 100 to get back to the drawing board.
The different hero builds I've designed are these:
N/Rt WoR Healer
Role: Uses a basic N/Rt WoR healing build to function as the main healer of the team
Soul Reaping: 12+1+x
Restoration Magic: 12
Weapon of Remedy - Mend Body And Soul - Spirit Light - Spirit Transfer - Recuperation - Recovery - Life - Death Pact Signet
N/Rt WoQ Communer
Role: This is the Ritual Lord for the team; with Ritual Lord unable for non-Rt primaries Weapon of Quickening is used instead
Soul Reaping: 12+1+x
Communing: 12
Weapon of Quickening - Armor of Unfeeling - Signet of Lost Souls - Shelter - Union - Displacement - Earthbind - Death Pact Signet
N/E Warder
Role: This is the Earth elementalist for the team; it uses many high-cost spell, none of which cause exhaustion, to protect the team and disable foes
Soul Reaping: 12+1+x
Earth Magic: 12
Unsteady Ground - Eruption - Ash Blast - Ward Against Elements - Ward of Stability - Ward against Melee - Glyph of Elemental Power - Signet of Lost Souls
N/Mo SS
Role: Spiteful Spirit curser, Enfeebler, Hex removal
Curses: 12+1+x
Soul Reaping: 10+1
Protection Prayers: 8
Spiteful Spirit - Insidious Parasite - Enfeebling Blood - Signet of Lost Souls -
Convert Hexes - Reverse Hex - Protective Spirit - Vengeance
N/Mo MB/Infuser
Role: The team Minion Bomber which provides the energy from the team with short-lasting Bone Minions, spreads poison and/or disease, and is able to double as a poor man's healer with redirection of minion HP via Infuse Health
Death Magic: 12+1+x
Soul Reaping: 12+1
Healing Prayers: 3
Jagged Bones - Animate Bone Minions - Death Nova - Taste of Pain - Taste of Death - Signet of Lost Souls - Infuse Health - Vengeance
N/Mo SoR Protect Necro
Role: Functions as the prot monk for this team
Soul Reaping: 12+1+x
Protection Prayers: 12
Shield of Regeneration - Spirit Bond - Shield of Absorption - Aegis - Protective Spirit - Convert Hexes - Signet of Lost Souls - Vengeance
N/Mo Corrupted Barber
Role: Hex, Enchant removal, Hex removal
Curses: 12+1+x
Soul Reaping: 10+1
Protection Prayers: 8
Corrupt Enchantment - Rip Enchantment - Barbs - Mark of Pain - Signet of Lost Souls - Protective Spirit - Reverse Hex - Vengeance
Notes:
Vengeance is a very effective spell for this team. While its use can get annoying, it creates deaths for no DP cost which is used to fuel the energy machine, and it is the ultimate combat resurrection skill. This makes the team resilient under fire and able to regroup and fight back even after a near wipe.
The player builds to complement this team could be any, though of course using N primary will be more effective.
I tested the 8-man build with the Warder, SoR, Corrupter, WoR, MB and WoQ. I played SV and Chthon played Power Block necromancer. The result was fairly encouraging.
To prove the validity of the team build;
The hero team requires very little micromanagement. In general it's about summoning the Communing spirits and placing the wards manually if you have a tough fight on your hands, but this is only rarely necessary.
For the 4-man areas I've usually gone with myself as any hexer build, one more hexer (generally the SS build), WoR and a slightly modified SoR including Bone Minions.
To make myself clear, I'm not by any means suggesting this is a novel or original idea. Additionally I do not suggest my builds can't be improved. I'm simply showing how it can be done and posting this thread as an anchor to start discussion.
For your convenience I've uploaded the maximum of five builds in this post.
Kindly, Moloch
The pop word is "Synergy"
Moloch Vein
Moloch Vein
These are the final builds used and conceived. One note that Chthon made was that Xinrae's Weapon (or Defiant Was Xinrae) might be a good elite for the Communer. This hasn't been tested but might be a viable idea when fighting mobs that produce rapid spikes, for example, the Roaring Ethers and Ruby Djinns in Hidden City. Another viable elite would be Soul Twisting.
Also, no, there are zero interrupts in these hero builds. If interruption becomes necessary a Psychic Distraction necromancer can be added to the mix; I will maybe post a working build of that later if there is interest. The problem with the N/Rt and N/Mo lines is a lack of viable interrupt skills.
Another note is that the Earth warder has no attunement spell. This might seem insane but I left it out to see if the SR engine would be enough, and it was. No attunement was needed.
Also, no, there are zero interrupts in these hero builds. If interruption becomes necessary a Psychic Distraction necromancer can be added to the mix; I will maybe post a working build of that later if there is interest. The problem with the N/Rt and N/Mo lines is a lack of viable interrupt skills.
Another note is that the Earth warder has no attunement spell. This might seem insane but I left it out to see if the SR engine would be enough, and it was. No attunement was needed.
Chthon
I might add that the powerblock build was pure junk (hitting SF, in hard mode, with cross-Atlantic ping just doesn't work too well), so that was closer to a 7-man vanquish.
And yes, the warder was just rolling in energy, despite the high cost spells.
I'm still not sure what to think about the minion-powered infuser. Olias seemed really tentative with it, and he would occasionally infuse minions, but he did pull off a couple of very timely saves in the face of roaring ether spikes.
All in all, it was a heck of a good time.
And yes, the warder was just rolling in energy, despite the high cost spells.
I'm still not sure what to think about the minion-powered infuser. Olias seemed really tentative with it, and he would occasionally infuse minions, but he did pull off a couple of very timely saves in the face of roaring ether spikes.
All in all, it was a heck of a good time.
Mickey
This is awesome. I have been thinking about an all necro team for a little bit now. Do you think it will work on Gyala HM?
Moloch Vein
Given that most of the foes in that mission are physical and the team carries loads of anti-physical measures (weakness, blind, knockdown versus attacks, three different party wide blocks etc), I'd say it should be possible. However that's of course not tested. Simply choose which builds to bring.
It's possible the MB can be improved. Infuse Health just seemed like a neat idea, and I can't remember Olias actually committing suicide with it, but clearly infusing minions isn't a good idea. I doubt he'd done that if he had Blood of the Master, which he hasn't for two reasons: 1, with JB it's hardly necessary since the point of the minions is to die, and 2, when I wrote the build I forgot to give it to him!
Best of luck.
It's possible the MB can be improved. Infuse Health just seemed like a neat idea, and I can't remember Olias actually committing suicide with it, but clearly infusing minions isn't a good idea. I doubt he'd done that if he had Blood of the Master, which he hasn't for two reasons: 1, with JB it's hardly necessary since the point of the minions is to die, and 2, when I wrote the build I forgot to give it to him!
Best of luck.
Kaida the Heartless
I think the pop word is "Soul Reaping".
Not a bad build, but how about a few screenshots of elementalist heavy areas on hard mode to remove my skepticism? Also, about how long did this run take?
Not a bad build, but how about a few screenshots of elementalist heavy areas on hard mode to remove my skepticism? Also, about how long did this run take?
Moloch Vein
It was a standard vanquish; didn't take especially long or short time. There were a couple of wipes that were pretty easily worked off. I didn't check the time afterwards (simply forgot) but I'd guess around 2 hours? Maybe Chthon knows better, I tend to forget about time.
Hidden City was chosen as testing area because many of the enemies had pretty decent spike capabilities (as you know the Ruby carry SF and the Ethers provide quite a nice E-surge spike.)
However this is certainly not the last time I will use this team idea, so how about you choose an area?
Hidden City was chosen as testing area because many of the enemies had pretty decent spike capabilities (as you know the Ruby carry SF and the Ethers provide quite a nice E-surge spike.)
However this is certainly not the last time I will use this team idea, so how about you choose an area?
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
Not a bad build, but how about a few screenshots of elementalist heavy areas on hard mode to remove my skepticism? Also, about how long did this run take?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
It was a standard vanquish; didn't take especially long or short time. There were a couple of wipes that were pretty easily worked off. I didn't check the time afterwards (simply forgot) but I'd guess around 2 hours? Maybe Chthon knows better, I tend to forget about time.
I wasn't paying much attention either. Must have been pretty quick since we never really bogged down. I think the Ether Boss was the only place where we fell out of a "kill and move on, kill and move on" rhythm. Even though the derv boss wiped us once, we took out more than half his group on the first pass and waltzed on through the second time.
One thing that may have slowed us down was vengeance. More than a couple of times we ended up having to wait between battles to get a death pact signet rez on someone whom the heroes insisted on vengeancing instead. (Chthon: "OK that mob's dead; time to move out." <Falls down dead from vengeance expiring> "Vengeeeeeaaaaance!!" <Olias thinks its funny and reapplies vengeance>)
Kaida the Heartless
Well, considering that 4 of your six heroes use soul reaping, maxed, with the attribute of another class, maxed, I'd say the pop word is, in fact, soul reaping. Stop giving anet more reason to nerf it :P
The build looks fun, at the least. I personally enjoy hexes so it works out. I usually throw in mark of rodgort with two searing flames eles just for the damage.
Moloch Vein
Used this to complete FoW NM without much problems.
Complete time was around 4 1/2 hours with a 1/2 hour break and a lot of running around the map finding the quests. One N/Rt WoR Healer (Human) One N/Rt SLW Healer One N/Me Psychic Distraction One N/Mo OoU MM (Human) One N/Mo SoR Protection One N/E Unsteady Ground warder One N/Mo SS One N/Mo SoJ Smiter (Scourge Healing/Scourge Enchantment) No special problems were encountered pertaining to the team build and the area could definitely have been cleared faster if we'd had a clue about what we were doing.
bungusmaximus
ROFL awesome. N/everything works wonders. I sometimes use a N/Rt channeler that's actually better then a Rt/N channeler. SR is broken in a lovely way.
The pop word is Ownage :P ragamuffin
nice idea and good builds, have you given spirit light weapon a try? i use it in some HM missions
spirit light weapon - spirit transfer - mend body and soul - sprit light - protective was koalai - blood ritual - flesh of my flesh if you ever try this build let me know if you think it works well since you make a good Rt  your opinion is valued
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by ragamuffin
nice idea and good builds, have you given spirit light weapon a try? i use it in some HM missions
spirit light weapon - spirit transfer - mend body and soul - sprit light - protective was koalai - blood ritual - flesh of my flesh if you ever try this build let me know if you think it works well since you make a good Rt your opinion is valued
One of the heroes was using SLW for the FoW trip.
ragamuffin
oh lol didnt notice
Moloch Vein
The SLW is good for a constant-healing effect. WoR is good for spike heals, which is something hero AI is pretty terrible at.
Of course, the weapons cancel each other, which can present a problem. I didn't feel it that way this time around, though. Preservation might've been decent on the hero N/Rt, but I just hate static spirits with in-the-area effect at the hands of a hero. Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Of course, the weapons cancel each other, which can present a problem. I didn't feel it that way this time around, though.
I think the problem was minimized by (1) the fact that WoR does its thing and ends fast, before SLW gets a chance to overwrite it, and (2) the fact that a human being was controlling WoR, who knew enough not to overwrite SLW unless the target was in immediate danger.
Moloch Vein
I would like to note that there has been an update to Rejuvenation. Before, it would heal allies at full health and die within seconds of being placed. This made it extremely poor as a healing option but pretty good for SR benefits. Now it will only affect allies at non-max health which makes it far better - it still dies pretty fast, but it's actually useful.
Moloch Vein
I am bumping this topic for a friend, will soon add more information, project is ongoing.
Crassus Praetor
It seems to me that the heros dont use Armour of Unfeeling I havent tested it much but that's just because I havent found a good use for the WoQ hero
Also I'd like to see your PD N/Me build if you'd care to post that sometime 
Moloch Vein
Some of these builds are slightly outmoded because of the spirit/SR nerf. The combination of lower Shelter/etc life, burning and no energy from spirits has in particular hit the WoQ communer very hard.
When I get home I'm going to post a couple of more builds here. All won't be very useful but most will be quite fun and at least half-viable.
Moloch Vein
Alright, I've been quite lazy with this thread and with GW in general for a week or so. These are the promised builds.
N/Rt DwX Anti-Spellcasting Tank Role: This is a support character suitable for bringing into HM PvE areas where you're facing spiking casters. Examples are Hells Precipice versus the Sparks, Hidden City of Ahdashim and more. The DwX character is sent to tank the casting mobs and disable their spells. This character is preferrable to the WoQ build in almost all cases, it's simply a better build. Attributes can be switched a little; Communing need not be 12, Restoration can be higher, Soul Reaping can also be higher (but 10 should be enough.) More Restoration spells can be added as desired to the general template if you want to make the character more "general-purpose". Soul Reaping: 8+1+1 Communing: 12 Restoration Magic: 10 Defiant Was Xinrae - Vital Weapon - Wielder's Boon - Mending Grip - Shelter - Union - Displacement - Death Pact Signet N/Me Psychic Distraction Necromancer Role: Caster-based interrupt machine for PvE. Most of the time preferably replaced by a ranger but included as promised. Does pack some tools with limited additional PvE utility from the Domination line. Soul Reaping: 12+1+1 Domination Magic: 12 Psychic Distraction - Empathy - Diversion - Arcane Thievery - Arcane Larceny - Cry Of Frustration - Shatter Hex - Signet Of Lost Souls Xylia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
N/Mo MB/Infuser
Role: The team Minion Bomber which provides the energy from the team with short-lasting Bone Minions, spreads poison and/or disease, and is able to double as a poor man's healer with redirection of minion HP via Infuse Health Death Magic: 12+1+x Soul Reaping: 12+1 Healing Prayers: 3 Jagged Bones - Animate Bone Minions - Death Nova - Taste of Pain - Taste of Death - Signet of Lost Souls - Infuse Health - Vengeance I like the idea of using infuse + taste of death with the minion bomber (although I usually run aegis and prot spirit on mine). I wonder if you couldn't buff healing prayers some and replace jagged bones with [wiki]Glimmer of Light[/wiki] or [wiki]Word of Healing[/wiki], and possibly drop taste of pain for another heal spell. The N/Rt provides almost enough healing for the party in most areas - with that additional buff, you might be able to drop any other healing you're bringing and focus more on damage. Bargamer
I agree, SR is sooo broken, LOL
Never thought I'd see the Necro-MB concept with Infuse Health, as similar as it is to Flesh/Flesh. You put a lot of thought into this.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xylia
I like the idea of using infuse + taste of death with the minion bomber (although I usually run aegis and prot spirit on mine). I wonder if you couldn't buff healing prayers some and replace jagged bones with [wiki]Glimmer of Light[/wiki] or [wiki]Word of Healing[/wiki], and possibly drop taste of pain for another heal spell. The N/Rt provides almost enough healing for the party in most areas - with that additional buff, you might be able to drop any other healing you're bringing and focus more on damage.
Taste of Pain is weak. I've removed it from the MB bar and never use it. I usually run an N/Me MB build on Olias (interrupt-centered). Slapping some prot or heal on the MB is fairly standard routine especially for 4-men areas.
Moloch Vein
Actually the idea of throwing heavy healing on the MB (more than just the Infuse) would be pretty attractive. I'll see what I can produce when I get home.
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