So most of you experienced monk players say Reversal of Fortune is a great spell. No doubt about it, but definitely not for beginners. It's difficult to cast on an ally since you can almost never tell when they are gonna be attacked, and when they do, it will ,more than likely, not be much.
I would really like to use this spell, but i almost never cast it at the right moment. How do you guys deal with that?
Reversal of Fortune
horseradish
Kaida the Heartless
Reversal of Fortune works best when cast on casters (60 AL = more healed).
In order to predict attacks, use it on characters that are already under attack, or observe the battle field and track enemy movements towards your teammates.
Also note that RoF is only semi-effective in normal mode, but saves lives in hard mode.
Hope I helped! :]
In order to predict attacks, use it on characters that are already under attack, or observe the battle field and track enemy movements towards your teammates.
Also note that RoF is only semi-effective in normal mode, but saves lives in hard mode.
Hope I helped! :]
Shendaar
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
It's difficult to cast on an ally since you can almost never tell when they are gonna be attacked
Hmmm. Look up instead of staring at the health bars and it should be pretty easy to figure out.
OI-812
It seems pretty simple to me. Watch the life bars. If someone starts taking damage, throw RoF on them. Monster/enemy player attacks again, triggers RoF. Whenever you see someone's life bar go down in chunks, little or big, put RoF on them. You use it pretty much the same way you use a heal.
combatchuck
Think of it as kind of a supplement to the bigger protection spells like Prot Spirit and Spirit Bond. If you run into a barrager, you can only cast one PS before the next barrage comes, so you PS one caster and ROF another one.
ayame ftw
Rof is usually my first line of defense (response) , before i use a slower protection spell like: Shield of absorption or guardian.
Im also having problems with pre-proting
Im also having problems with pre-proting
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by OI-812
Watch the life bars.
Good monks watch the playing field and see who is taking (or will be taking) the most damage, and put a prot like RoF on them. Watching life bars is a sure way to fail, as the target my no longer be under attack by the time you cast RoF, and it'll be obvious by where the enemies/monsters are.
Son Of The Axe
the tard above speaks truth, use RoF as a first response spell, its main purpose is to give the monk time to think and thats what makes the spell leetsauce.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
since you can almost never tell when they are gonna be attacked
...
How do you guys deal with that? Stop failing at monking is a start. Unglue your eyes from the red bars, and watch the battle instead. If you see a pair of trees and an idiot running towards a target, them mebbe you oughtta think about casting a spell.
...
How do you guys deal with that? Stop failing at monking is a start. Unglue your eyes from the red bars, and watch the battle instead. If you see a pair of trees and an idiot running towards a target, them mebbe you oughtta think about casting a spell.
Age
It is best to look at the map and most importantly your radar that where I look most of the time as I can see who is where and where is who.This is very good if the maps is in bad lighting being very dark and you can't see where most of your team is.I do look at the map from say 90degree angle or top view.
When using RoF is just like using PoS or SB or SoA.It is best to throw it on before the attack but most likely when the attack is happening it will then negate the damage and heal for some as well unlike say Orisons it just repairs the damage taken.I would advise you to practice somewhere where it isn't to hard lower lvl that yourself.
When using RoF is just like using PoS or SB or SoA.It is best to throw it on before the attack but most likely when the attack is happening it will then negate the damage and heal for some as well unlike say Orisons it just repairs the damage taken.I would advise you to practice somewhere where it isn't to hard lower lvl that yourself.
Dr Strangelove
RoF is your knee jerk response, buying you a second or so to throw a more decisive prot on someone.
Tab
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
So most of you experienced monk players say Reversal of Fortune is a great spell. No doubt about it, but definitely not for beginners. It's difficult to cast on an ally since you can almost never tell when they are gonna be attacked, and when they do, it will ,more than likely, not be much.
I would really like to use this spell, but i almost never cast it at the right moment. How do you guys deal with that? Fail.
You watch the battlefield and preprot.
I would really like to use this spell, but i almost never cast it at the right moment. How do you guys deal with that? Fail.
You watch the battlefield and preprot.
horseradish
thanks for the info.
But to Stormlord Alex & ibreaktoilets, i just asked a question. No need to be bitchy.
But to Stormlord Alex & ibreaktoilets, i just asked a question. No need to be bitchy.
Tab
Bitching is what I do.
horseradish
LMAO
wow
how sad
wow
how sad
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
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Originally Posted by Son Of The Axe
the tard above speaks truth
Tab
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
LMAO
wow how sad LMAO wow o w8. whoru.
arcady
I keep 2 to 3 5 energy spells in my bar that I just spam out constantly in a fight on anyone who's mixing it up - the health bars in the party window have arrows on them that are often predictive of where someone is headed, plus if they take one hit they are likely to take more if the other side is doing its job. If the other side isn't doing its job, it won't matter - a monk on my side isn't even needed anyway.
 At the start of a fight, I spam out all my 5 cost spells on one ally each - going for the ones that are doing the initial pulling - the warrior / dervishes, and the ones I know will get spiked early - the mesmers. Because if they aren't trying to kill my mesmer I know it will be a short fight in my favor. Nothing says havoc like a mesmer coming at you, so if you have one of your own, protect it well. When I'm playing an offensive character I -always- target mesmers first. Next I prot the elementalists, they tend to get spiked on by everyone fool enough to ignore the mesmer. After that I go for myself / any other monk on my side. I prot myself last because if my team is doing its job the enemy hasn't been able to come after me yet, but I know it wants to, and eventually the linemen are going to fail, and I'm the quarterback... (if I have my football analogy right, I don't watch the sport... )My openeing move in a fight, if I have time, and if the other side's Mesmer doesn't stop me, or if the go-go-go warrio hasn't been stringing pulls together so closely that it hasn't even recharged yet, is almost always Aegis. After that I do all of the above.
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcady
I keep 2 to 3 5 energy spells in my bar that I just spam out constantly in a fight on anyone who's mixing it up - the health bars in the party window have arrows on them that are often predictive of where someone is headed, plus if they take one hit they are likely to take more if the other side is doing its job. If the other side isn't doing its job, it won't matter - a monk on my side isn't even needed anyway.
At the start of a fight, I spam out all my 5 cost spells on one ally each - going for the ones that are doing the initial pulling - the warrior / dervishes, and the ones I know will get spiked early - the mesmers. Because if they aren't trying to kill my mesmer I know it will be a short fight in my favor. Nothing says havoc like a mesmer coming at you, so if you have one of your own, protect it well. When I'm playing an offensive character I -always- target mesmers first. Next I prot the elementalists, they tend to get spiked on by everyone fool enough to ignore the mesmer. After that I go for myself / any other monk on my side. I prot myself last because if my team is doing its job the enemy hasn't been able to come after me yet, but I know it wants to, and eventually the linemen are going to fail, and I'm the quarterback... (if I have my football analogy right, I don't watch the sport... )My openeing move in a fight, if I have time, and if the other side's Mesmer doesn't stop me, or if the go-go-go warrio hasn't been stringing pulls together so closely that it hasn't even recharged yet, is almost always Aegis. After that I do all of the above. That's exactly what I did when I was a bad monk. Sure, doing that may let you get as good as a top 500 monk, but it'll never make you any better. Amalek
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcady
if they take one hit they are likely to take more if the other side is doing its job. If the other side isn't doing its job, it won't matter - a monk on my side isn't even needed anyway.
This is true, only bad players half/fake spike or draw prot to pressure enemy monks.
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amalek
This is true, only bad players half/fake spike or draw prot to pressure enemy monks.
Or maybe the target just got hit by a critical spear of lightning.
And I thought only good players know how to fake spike. Bad players train a target with SoD on it. It's up to the OP what advice he wants to listen to. If the OP just wants to play "casual PvP" then spamming RoF is fine. But any monk who knows what they're talking about will tell you to stop sucking by spamming RoF and watching the playing field for better protting.
horseradish
alright great info.
what about RoF in PvE? i rarely see a monk bring this skill there.
Age
Because most PvE monks use healing prayers look at the what Sup Healing is going for.It is great in used in PvE being a PvE protect Monk I get a lot of credit.
horseradish
yeah seriously...
imho, no monk should be a pure healer unless there's a proto monk in the group. I play factions alot, so cleaning up the conditions and hexes goes a long way.
Coloneh
monks should never be pure healing. who cares if theres a prot in the group? both should be hybrid.
Div
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
monks should never be pure healing. who cares if theres a prot in the group? both should be hybrid.
Very true.
Though I run an LoD bar for PvE, it has it's nice mix of prot skills...something like RoF Dwayna's kiss Cure hex Dismiss condition (or GoLE) Prot spirit LoD Aegis SoA
arcady
Interesting.
I always build my monks as either pure prot or pure heal. When I H+H and on my monk, I always make the Hero a pure heal build. When I'm not on my monk, I will bring a prot hero if I only bring one monk, or one of each prot or heal if I bring two. That allows me to focus on their builds - maximizing the skillbars and the runes I put on them.
arcady
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amalek
This is true, only bad players half/fake spike or draw prot to pressure enemy monks.
Ok, that's a strategy that can sometimes work, but... split attention is just that - split. Generally, as long as you have 1 pip of health, you're still dealing damage, unless a mesmer (or the like) has flipped your off-switch. the more you split your attention the longer it takes you to take down targets. So if you're going to do it, you'd better be sure you can get away with it - be sure you can afford the extra time it will cost you to achieve victory.
Exceptions exist, but I assume when monking that in general they're going to try and kill / shutdown the members of my team, as fast as they can, not just poke them with sharp sticks in a round robin game.  If the scenario starts to play out otherwise, the most important advice I'd give is to know how to switch tactics. Don't get locked into any one strategy - be it mine or the person I am responding to.
horseradish
i don't normally like two hybrid monks.
one proto monk and a hybrid or resto rit is good enough imo.
JoeKnowMo
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
i don't normally like two hybrid monks.
one proto monk and a hybrid or resto rit is good enough imo. You'd do well to listen to the pros about hybrid monks in pve. An Aegis chain will prevent a bucketload of damage against physical enemies.Pre-protting will also reduce a ton of damage. You can run masamune's build below on one monk and variation of it (skill listed after "/") on the other monk. RoF Dwayna's kiss Cure hex/Sig of Rejuv Dismiss condition (or GoLE) Prot spirit/Spirit Bond LoD/WoH Aegis SoA/Shielding Hands Having hybrid monks also helps when one monk is the target of Backfire, Soul Leech, etc. or is being trained by the monsters. The standard pve mentality of monks speccing purely for prot or healing is a poor practice and often results in subpar skills making the skillbar (think Healing Breeze and its ugly cousins). I'm not a pro but I learned a long time ago that (high-level) pvp'ers know what's up. You're better off listening to them than other pve'ers.
horseradish
ah so hybrid monks is for split tactics and so the group will survive if one monk is shut down. The group wonn't have all their eggs in one basket..or...something i dunno
I've heard of Aegis chains. they seem like fun. I have seen full proto monks in high lvl GvG matches sporting RC and such, and the only skills not from Protection Prayers, on some skill bars, are Divine Spirit and Deny Hexes. I've also read an article that PS and SB should not be in the same build. I take it separating the spells are much like hybrid monking. They seem similar, but are they are used for different purposes?
Dodo The Extinct
RoF is kinda overrated, but it is a great skill. I don't think it is godly, but it is a good skill. It is what Orison should be like.
RoF a good "Omg!" skill. You use it when some1 is getting killed fast, when you should probably use a skill that is more appropriate for the kind of damage they are taking. That being said, it still heals for a good amount, has a good recharge, and roxxors 
Bowstring Badass
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo
An Aegis chain will prevent a bucketload of damage against physical enemies. lol? Aegis blows now to hard to use in pve now with a bunch of moronic pugs.
Ben-A-BoO
Slightly off topic but still one of the most important lessons of this thread:
The visuals of the game are not only eye-candy! ~ Player movement in general is easily observed - important for melee spikes - ~ Skills have distinct "emotes" and especially incoming spikes are much more easier to predict - Rt spike and shiny balls were a good lesson there back in the days - ~ In addition: turn up your volume - example: diversion and the godly esc button - These simple but good advices by the above guru fellows should make your RoF a bit more effective ... in pve and pvp Good luck monking! Timebandit Amalek
Quote:
Originally Posted by arcady
Ok, that's a strategy that can sometimes work, but... split attention is just that - split. Generally, as long as you have 1 pip of health, you're still dealing damage, unless a mesmer (or the like) has flipped your off-switch. the more you split your attention the longer it takes you to take down targets. So if you're going to do it, you'd better be sure you can get away with it - be sure you can afford the extra time it will cost you to achieve victory.
The idea behind it isn't to equally damage everyone, the idea is, for example, have your wars converge on a target, perhaps one war shocks, the monk SoD's the target, you have a 5s (assuming no HSR) window to converge and spike another target without SoD. It's the same as that long discussion on Team Quitter about orbing soft targets when not spiking - it can often draw a prot spirit or a spirit bond from unattentive or bad monks, and greatly increase the pressure your team outputs. If you constantly create a bunch of threats that may or may not be real threats, and the opponents react to them all, they burn a ton of energy and efficiency. Not many guilds half or fake spike anymore, but it used to be common.
arcady
Nod. I see where you're coming at. I'm just thinking that one reason it might not be so common anymore is that if you have the time to get away with so much, it might be a sign that the other side has such weak strategy that you don't need to get away with so much. By contrast, it can also mean that the other side is -so good- that you are forced to take a long time to get anywhere against them, which opens up a different set of strategy tools.
In PvE on the other hand, the AI is a bit more predictable. And once you've faced a certain kind of critter, at least until the next patch you can come in knowing whether or not it will pull tricks like this. I will also agree that the visuals are more than eye-candy. And keep your monk on the move based upon what you see around you. In a hard choice between the party bar and the screen, I go for the bar - but if I can pay attention to both I will. A final note, watching the bar is a way to help avoid getting tricked by the splitting tactic above - if you use your bar watching properly. I don't kick into attention when the bar shows small hits, only when it shows big hits or continuous hits. When I watch the screen I can get 'psyched out' in ways that the bar doesn't do for me. When I look at the bar I pay attention to a couple of factors: Is that red lower than it should be? Is there positive regen going on? Is there degen going on, that outpaces the positive? Is it something that I can -and- should deal with now or later - based on my energy management? That last one is very fuzzy and takes experience. You have to get a feel over time for when to 'waste energy' on a high energy prot, and when to spam a low energy quickie. RoF is great because I can put it out there at a very low cost to me for what it does for my team. Not the best spell, but great in the cost-benefit analysis that comes into play on the 'fuzzy' one above. But good monking, for me at least, involves both the party bar and the screen, although I still favor the bar over the screen if circumstance has reached a point where I can only use one. Actually, I also have to factor the radar into that too - I glance at the radar often to see if somebody who was not in my screen line of sight is getting to a spot I want them to be in - red or blue dot. But obviously, on limited time, you have to learn to make quick calls over which one to glance at next with the least amount of 'cost' to you from not having used that split second to glance at one of the other three.
Dodo The Extinct
Being a good monk involves alot of multitasking. Casting Veil and ending it on someone while you remove a condition at the same time and begin to pre-kite against a Warrior.
....thats why I don't monk anymore
JoeKnowMo
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
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Quote: I have seen full proto monks in high lvl GvG matches sporting RC and such, and the only skills not from Protection Prayers, on some skill bars, are Divine Spirit and Deny Hexes. They usually have Gift as the lone Healing Prayers spell.
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Dismiss Condition is another decent heal that often makes their bars.|
Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass
lol? Aegis blows now to hard to use in pve now with a bunch of moronic pugs.
You should be able to manage staying within earshot of everybody at the beginning of a battle at the very least.
horseradish
Backfire is easy to get rid of though. I never monk without at least one hex and condition removal. In PvE, where communication is lacking, i try to keep everyone clean as best i can. If i'm in a competent group, then i'll ask them to ping pesky hexes.
Gift of Health...yeah i've seen it on proto monks before. Albeit, not all of them, but they usually have Zealous Benediction and/or a healing skill from Divine Favor like Signet of Devotion. ah, so much to learn about monks. good thing i love this game. 
JoeKnowMo
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Gift of Health...yeah i've seen it on proto monks before. Albeit, not all of them, but they usually have Zealous Benediction and/or a healing skill from Divine Favor like Signet of Devotion.
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ah, so much to learn about monks. good thing i love this game.
Yep. I learn a lot from watching observer mode and reading what pvp monks say. Monking (for me) is awfully challenging in pve and low-level pvp, so I have much respect for the high-level pvp monks.
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