Please close this thread.
Lately I've been running this build in alliance battles:
[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]way of the assassin[/skill][skill]critical eye[/skill][skill]Critical defenses[/skill][skill]assassin's remedy[/skill][skill]way of perfection[/skill][skill]way of the master[/skill]
Critical Strikes 12+3+1
Shadow Arts 5+1
Scythe Mastery 9
Earth Prayers 8
I designed this to be a tank to absorb a substantial amount of damage, while dealing out an average amount of damage to its targets, and never running out of energy. With running this, I have had a number of successes including:
Surviving a knockdown warrior, damage assassin, dervish, burning elementalist, and ss necro all at once. This may or may not have been luck, but it happened nonetheless for a minute or two.
Surviving in the opponent's res shrine for the majority of the match against at least 2 mms and many other people who were ressing there.
Easily defeating touch rangers. (this one is important to me)
Granted, in most cases, it takes me a while to actually kill an opponent, but my goal with this build is to keep as many opponents/npcs occupied as to allow the rest of my team to cap shrines. Another use for it, is dealing out consistent damage to soft targets to wear away at them.
Weaknesses I have found so far, are enchantment stripping, high damage anti-melee casters, high damage eles, very heavy degeneration, heavy conditioning, unblockable attacks.
What I'm looking for, is any ideas or improvements you have to either increase the effectiveness or damage output of this build without severely dampening the survival abilities of it. That, and any comments you have.
Also, this isn't necessarily just for AB, but it was designed specifically for that.
EDIT: Shoot, I posted in the wrong forum I think, if someone could move this thread, that'd be great.
A/D Tank thoughts
Adamant
glountz
Tanks are baed.
Yanman.be
I lol'ed irl!
SotiCoto
...... Great.
I can achieve even greater survival with just three skills:
[skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill]
So.... how much damage do you do with your awesome survivability?
^_^
[ Subtext: Assassins are supposed to Assassinate things. ]
I can achieve even greater survival with just three skills:
[skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill]
So.... how much damage do you do with your awesome survivability?
^_^
[ Subtext: Assassins are supposed to Assassinate things. ]
Fluffy Butt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamant
[skill]Victorious Sweep[/skill][skill]Mystic Regeneration[/skill][skill]way of the assassin[/skill][skill]critical eye[/skill][skill]Critical defenses[/skill][skill]assassin's remedy[/skill][skill]way of perfection[/skill][skill]way of the master[/skill]
Critical Strikes 12+3+1
Shadow Arts 5+1
Scythe Mastery 9
Earth Prayers 8
I designed this to be a tank to absorb a substantial amount of damage, while dealing out an average amount of damage to its targets, and never running out of energy. With running this, I have had a number of successes including:
Surviving a knockdown warrior, damage assassin, dervish, burning elementalist, and ss necro all at once. This may or may not have been luck, but it happened nonetheless for a minute or two.
Quote: Originally Posted by Adamant Surviving in the opponent's res shrine for the majority of the match against at least 2 mms and many other people who were ressing there. Be honest, were you mobbing?
Quote: Originally Posted by Adamant Easily defeating touch rangers. (this one is important to me) Ok, was it 1vs1 or 2vs1 or was it a noob toucher? I don't think you 1vs1'ed it and easily? I find that EXTREMELY (like flying pigs with no catapults) hard to believe.
Quote:
Granted, in most cases, it takes me a while to actually kill an opponent, but my goal with this build is to keep as many opponents/npcs occupied as to allow the rest of my team to cap shrines. Another use for it, is dealing out consistent damage to soft targets to wear away at them.
Ummm, keeping NPC's occpied? Thats almost impossible.
EDIT: You don't be a target for NPC a FYI it doesn't really matter if your the target or not. Unless you have great defence which in this build, you do!
EDIT: You don't be a target for NPC a FYI it doesn't really matter if your the target or not. Unless you have great defence which in this build, you do!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Adamant
Weaknesses I have found so far, are enchantment stripping, high damage anti-melee casters, high damage eles, very heavy degeneration, heavy conditioning, unblockable attacks.
What I'm looking for, is any ideas or improvements you have to either increase the effectiveness or damage output of this build without severely dampening the survival abilities of it. That, and any comments you have. Also, this isn't necessarily just for AB, but it was designed specifically for that. EDIT: Shoot, I posted in the wrong forum I think, if someone could move this thread, that'd be great. See this forum http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10204347 I think I know where your going with this which is a good idea. AB build... talk MORE about PvE instead of AB. EDIT: I TAKE EVERYTHING BACK (unless you haven't read my last post, which I said this build was fine, wasn't even good) This build is good, BUT, it lacks spiking damage (as in spiking I mean kill faster than heal) here is some pictures. Against Master of Axes http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3798/gw026ob9.jpg Took me about a minute and 1/2 to kill, but I killed him. Against Master of Hammers http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/2171/gw027zo7.jpg Took me about 40 seconds to kill him Against Master of E-Denial http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/8283/gw028zi1.jpg Took me about 35 seconds to kill him. Against Master of Interrupts http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/9924/gw029rt6.jpg Took me about 40 seconds to kill. Against Master of Hexes http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/4708/gw030ba8.jpg Took me about 30 seconds to kill. P.S. Give or take 10 seconds to kill, no timer  This is a build for the books (not record books) but its worth writing down and trying. PvP is good, PvE is better. A scale of 1-10 I'd give a 8 (toucher gets a 10, SF (Searing Flames) ele gets a 7) I judge hard to. God job, it reminds me of my build http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10204347 People said, hey, this won't work. (Like I judge yours before I tried it  ) my build works and so does yours, GOOD JOB! Just one more comment, add pictures of you killing masters, it helps to show what your build is good and bad at. (I stayed away from Master of Lighting due this is a Tanker build)
Fluffy Butt
Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
...... Great.
I can achieve even greater survival with just three skills: [skill]Deadly Paradox[/skill][skill]Arcane Echo[/skill][skill]Shadow Form[/skill] So.... how much damage do you do with your awesome survivability? [ Subtext: Assassins are supposed to Assassinate things. ] This is for PvE, I don't think this would work as well as it does in AB. Plus it does good damage output and provides great defence to. True assassins are suppose to assassinate things, think outside the box and you may find something
Coloneh
I want damage! this has none.
I want survivability! this actually has very little. no damage reduction/armor boosts = failed tank. you wont always be fighting melee creatures, and if you are then blinding flash is a better counter than a dedicated tank that deals almost no DPS. fail back to the drawing board sorry segnisletum
Must have been one bad touch ranger. Don't see how you would hit it if they bothered to put up a stance.
Always liked vow of strength over way of sin when using scythes, more so since way of the master. Also would allow you to drop attack skill for ias. Come to think of it though, none are available so scratch that.
Yanman.be
tanks + ab or any form of pvp = fail.
SotiCoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanman.be
tanks + ab or any form of pvp = fail.
QFT.
Tanks are for dealing with dim-witted AI mobs who can be rounded up into a nice little cluster for the nukers to obliterate. Humans are more prone to running around like headless chickens or making a beeline for their favourite bugbear.... AND they can also see when they're not doing a shred of damage to you and give up. Besides.... Reaper's Sweep? Totally unnecessary. Take Mystic Sweep or something if you have that many enchants. It has a faster attack speed and is quite spammable besides.
Bobby2
Enchantment strip juicyness. I don't get Dervs
Zanpakutou
Why are so many people obbsesed with 'tanking assasins' thats not their job... Dealing High dps to single targets, shutting down casters and owning in general is the assasins job. Assasins trying to tank in pvp no matter which build they use results in a pissed off team.
Adamant
Thank you all for such un-constructive criticism. You've made your point, you don't like it.
[Self-Esteem -10] Seeing as this is doomed to ridicule, please close this thread.
MercenaryK
I agree with people stating that tank + AB = fail. A warrior should never intend to tank in an AB; you need to think of the mind set change; you're not against level 20+ monsters, but level 20 characters who are more fragile and not as hard hitting as those monsters.
Thus tanking isn't necessary in AB; however some survivability does help. To make this better in PvE try taking out Critical Eye and replace it with Critical Agility, or with another attack skill; Critical Eye provides a small +% to crit, while being a skill unstrippable, the +% crit from Critical Mastery, Way of the Assassin, and Scythe Mastery should be sufficient critical %. For PvP I'd take another attack skill in replace of Critical Eye and Way of Perfection; you have Mystic Regeneration with +3 regen, and you have 3 enchants (Mystic Regeneration, Assassin's Remedy, Critical Defense) so that's +9 regen. That's plenty of heal for AB. So another attack skill or two to help with triggering Assassin's Remedy in case of condition spamming, and to help with a spike. My five cents worth.
Fluffy Butt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamant
Thank you all for such un-constructive criticism. You've made your point, you don't like it.
[Self-Esteem -10] Seeing as this is doomed to ridicule, please close this thread. Its a great build, not super great build, but its good in my book. I "highly" suggest this for PvE. PvP its "Ok." Read the posts to see the OK) Don't judge a book by its cover, it may change the way you think. I tested it if you haven't read my last reply and I got pictures. I bet out of the 10+ posts on 2 (or 1) people have tried it (including me) Don't say anything about something you know nothing about. ~N.M.A. In other words, don't judge it till you try it. 
zknifeh
imo is is a pve only bar...
takes me about 10 secs tops to kill master of axes (if he heals himself between my attack chains) like you said youself fluffy, assassins should assassinate things with this build u cant even kill master of healing or master of enchanting... which means if there is a monk in ab, you will never kill him and he will just laugh at you imo good defence = a strong offence and i try to use my offence to the fullest
Draginvry
Interesting build, with one severe weakness.
SHATTER BAIT. I mean, seriously. Your only true "healing" skill, if you could even call it that, relies on you having enchantments. Furthermore, all of your skills rely on enchantments in one form or another. In fact, there is only ONE skill that doesn't need enchantments at all. Two skills, if you count Critical Eye, which doesn't really do a whole lot by itself. I mean, I can see how this can be usefull against nubs with having some awesome health leeching and condition removal. But the fact remains that a single regular assassin build with [skill]expunge enchantments[/skill] would tear you out of the water in seconds. Unless I miss my guess, this build is only usefull in PvP if the opposing players are too ignorant to bring strips, and stupid enough to keep wailing on you. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Fluffy Butt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Draginvry
Interesting build, with one severe weakness.
SHATTER BAIT. I mean, seriously. Your only true "healing" skill, if you could even call it that, relies on you having enchantments. Furthermore, all of your skills rely on enchantments in one form or another. In fact, there is only ONE skill that doesn't need enchantments at all. Two skills, if you count Critical Eye, which doesn't really do a whole lot by itself. I mean, I can see how this can be usefull against nubs with having some awesome health leeching and condition removal. I agree, this build was posted in PvE section, and should be a PvE build instead of PvP, THATS "Not" a bad thing. This build is good in PvE as I tested it, PvP as I tested it, is fine, not good nor bad. You get your enchantments removed, I fine it easier to keep mysitic regen up front becuase of short recharge. P.S. Expung Enchantments sucks, I doubt any sin attacking would have that. Went I AB with this build its Ok, I prefer Toucher any day 
Sir Pandra Pierva
This looks oddly like my I was bored a/d scythe sin.
It's a fun concept but it doesn't always work for me but it's funny to kill people with a sin with a scythe.
[DE]
Assassins aren't tanks.
Dervishes aren't tanks. Non-tank + Non-tank = ?
BlackSephir
Well, I've learned that minus and minus give plus.
Xetelian
Maybe I'm missing something, but why take that elite instead of way of the master?
Why take way of perfection instead of the the dervish equivalent +5 hp gained per each enchantment max of ?25? per hit instead of per crit. Not dieing really quick in pvp is essential of course, but its not simply being a tank, its about being about able to kill them before they kill you.
iridescentfyre
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamant
Thank you all for such un-constructive criticism. You've made your point, you don't like it.
[Self-Esteem -10] Seeing as this is doomed to ridicule, please close this thread. Oh come on, either stand by your build or accept some criticism on it. Don't hide behind moderators! No one has said anything that severe.. this thread is still light-years from being a flame war. Besides, it doesn't have Mending, that's a plus. ^^ But yeah.. don't be a tank in PvP. Its unnecessary and counterproductive and eats up your skill bar. Your ability to stay alive at one shrine for 10 minutes doesn't win an Alliance Battle. Self-sufficiency is great to have, just don't overdo it. You're going to die a lot in AB's, just accept it and be ready to recover and move quickly. Am I A Good Sin
Yay time for a bit of posting fun
. When I'm bored I play an A/D. Here's what I use: Zealous sweep Radiant Scythe ( something like that ) Reapers Sweep ( E ) Victorious sweep ( 5 energy cost. heal when you have more health than them. ) Way of the Master Critical defences Mystic regen Optional ( condition removal, Speed up, res, etc ) That's for fun anyways. Or a sig spiker. Still works even with the nerf. You need more damage in your build which has been stated multiple times. And a final thing for all you people out there not helping at all: GET OUT OF THREADS THAT YOU AREN'T HELPING WITH. IF ALL YOU HAVE TO SAY IS THIS IS CRAP OR I WOULD NEVER USE THIS THEN LEAVE!!! DON'T EVEN POST IT! That's all. Nookies
Well, not good enough as a tank, but still. I like the idea
with Mystic Regen. and Way of the Assassin. *gonna experiment abit right away* ^^ longhornrob
Quote:
Originally Posted by iridescentfyre
Oh come on, either stand by your build or accept some criticism on it. Don't hide behind moderators! No one has said anything that severe.. this thread is still light-years from being a flame war.
Besides, it doesn't have Mending, that's a plus. ^^ But yeah.. don't be a tank in PvP. Its unnecessary and counterproductive and eats up your skill bar. Your ability to stay alive at one shrine for 10 minutes doesn't win an Alliance Battle. Self-sufficiency is great to have, just don't overdo it. You're going to die a lot in AB's, just accept it and be ready to recover and move quickly. Uh, sadly, it actually DOES win Alliance Battles. If you run right into a group of 5 or 6, most likely the will NOT leave until you are dead. If you can catch them away from a shrine, you can give your side an incredible advantage in numbers. Sure, most people SHOULDN'T stay occupied with a tank, but of course so many do. Most ABers will not run away from something that can damage them. I mean, most pets and minions get killed off after their master is already dead.
iridescentfyre
Quote:
Originally Posted by longhornrob
Uh, sadly, it actually DOES win Alliance Battles. If you run right into a group of 5 or 6, most likely the will NOT leave until you are dead. If you can catch them away from a shrine, you can give your side an incredible advantage in numbers. Sure, most people SHOULDN'T stay occupied with a tank, but of course so many do. Most ABers will not run away from something that can damage them. I mean, most pets and minions get killed off after their master is already dead.
Okay fair enough, tanks win Alliance Battles when the enemy is that stupid. I guess--more out of principal than anything else--I like to avoid builds that require the enemy to be that stupid in order to be successful.
longhornrob
Quote:
Originally Posted by iridescentfyre
Okay fair enough, tanks win Alliance Battles when the enemy is that stupid. I guess--more out of principal than anything else--I like to avoid builds that require the enemy to be that stupid in order to be successful.
You gotta go with what works, I guess. But I agree, I wouldn't play as a Tera Tank or a Toucher either.
Coloneh
touchers actually take down targets. tera tanks can be alright if players by a smart player, never battle, just cap shrines and tank the NPCs so your group can kill.
Quaker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamant
Thank you all for such un-constructive criticism. You've made your point, you don't like it.
[Self-Esteem -10] Seeing as this is doomed to ridicule, please close this thread. Lol! I coulda warned you. Don't take it personally, must of these kids can only rattle off meaningless stuff like "Assassins don't tank." (Assassins, like every other class, do whatever the hell they want!)This reminds me of the time a friend of mine, wanting to do the Tombs, set up her assassin(A/R) as a B/P. It was very difficult to get people to join the group, but it worked just fine - better than some.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker
Lol! I coulda warned you.
Don't take it personally, must of these kids can only rattle off meaningless stuff like "Assassins don't tank." (Assassins, like every other class, do whatever the hell they want!)
please go home. we are here giving you advice. if you can't take criticism go back to first grade.
BlackSephir
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaker
Lol! I coulda warned you.
Don't take it personally, must of these kids can only rattle off meaningless stuff like "Assassins don't tank." (Assassins, like every other class, do whatever the hell they want!)
So? You can probably even turn a monk into a tank but why? Assas have one of the largest if not the largest dps in the game and you want to tank?Go make a wammo with healing hands and dolyak sig.
Jaigoda
A 'sin can tank about as well as a warrior by using Nightstalker's (or Blessed, but you should be attacking anyway, so...) Insignias and using 3-4 skills: Critical Agility, Critical Defenses, Way of Perfection, and Mystic Regeneration; You really don't need CD or MR, but I included them in case you really wanted to be the primary tank (a bad idea that will also stress your attribute points, but still; CD works well if you have a free slot and a little extra energy). This leaves at least half of your bar open, as well as your elite slot. Moebius Blossom, anybody?
Oh, and I just remembered, my Moebius Blossom build using CA and WoP with CStrike and CEye was a secondary tank in Hell's Precipice, meaning I didn't actively tank, but I held my own when I had a Titan or two on me. Also, the monk didn't heal very well....
Yanman.be
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaigoda
Oh, and I just remembered, my Moebius Blossom build using CA and WoP with CStrike and CEye was a secondary tank in Hell's Precipice, meaning I didn't actively tank, but I held my own when I had a Titan or two on me. Also, the monk didn't heal very well....
Now this is a testimony we should all base our future thoughts on.
Jaigoda
Yanman, it's very difficult to detect sarcasm in written form. Were you joking on this one, or no?
Yanman.be
All of my posts are sarcastic, so...Yeah, it's a joke. What you were able to do once, a long long time ago, doesn't really matter. What I accomplished however, is a great resource of knowledge.
Jaigoda
Aha, I'm new here, so I wouldn't have known.. But actually, it was a month or two ago, so ha. But I do have to admit that Hell's is pretty easy nowadays if you can get a good non-PuG group (guildy's, friends, etc.). Of course, if you're being sarcastic... You're saying that what I was able to do recently actually matters, and what you have accomplished is worthless?
 Hmm...
Sir Pandra Pierva
Sarcasm lol
Also I did make a monk tank for ab once when I was bored. Sadly it worked all too well..............Also sins can tank but they designed to spike why people keep trying to make them tank is sometimes beyond me.
Jaigoda
Because they can tank just as well as other melee professions, at least in PvE... Critical Agility FTW, best tank skill in the game! (/slight sarcasm)
Bobby2
Critical Agility FTW, best tank skill in the game! [/no sarcasm at all]
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