Survivor, and why I think it's wrong for GW

I really, really hate the survivor title. It's not that I can't do it, it's that it isn't fun.

One of the things Guild Wars aimed to do was make the penalty for death as small and temporary as possible. This was one of the reasons I originally liked the game so much, because I had the freedom to do what I wanted, try new things, and not have to worry about whether I died and lost six hours of progess, which can happen in other games.

The survivor title undoes all of that. Survivor makes it so that your first death carries the hefty penalty "You can never earn the Survivor title". That seems really harsh for a game where dying wasn't supposed to be a burden, and it can cause enormous amounts of time to be lost if the point of a character was to earn that title.

It doesn't help that my first characters can't earn the title either, since they're the ones I like best.

Survivor also creates a disconnect between PvP and PvE. I have a character who has never died, but I can't take her into PvP because I don't want her to die. The only reason I care about dying at all is the Survivor title. If there were no Survivor title, I could play with her in PvP without any worry about regretting the decision. I can't even try PvP because a single death means I can't keep accumulating experience.

I've heard from other people that "Survivor is just another title for the people who want it", but trying to get the title is stressful and not fun. The fact that three seconds of lag can waste 100+ hours of gameplay doesn't help it any.

I don't think it's practical to remove the Survivor title from Guild Wars, but I do sincerely hope it is not included in Guild Wars 2. No other title makes me want to avoid playing the game, and since that's what the Survivor title does, I just want it gone. It's not fun to think "Oh, I want to play my Survivor... but my lag is kinda bad right now, let's play a different game instead".

not really sure about this...i've achieved legendary survivor or my 1st paragon and now on my 2nd because i quite enjoyed it!

it makes you play the game differently. rather then being a meat shield for your party you have to think more conservatively about your actions...kinda like vanquishing harder areas...you can't just drop dead like in NM it costs you!

it isn't that its a bad title it should just be left alone either by those who are opposed to it or just left alone for those who enjoy it (like me) to work on as they feel like it!

(*famous words describing Sir-Robin*)

so now because I have achieved leg.survivor I can play my r3 para while I have lag and play my r2 para while not afflicted by lag!

oO and BTW you can get leg.survivor in 16hours if you are mo/x or x/mo...14hours if you are a dervish!

I suffered long ago with you OP about the titles and stuff, now I just let it go and things got better and I can concentrate on the game much more. If you feel that the title is a terrible burden, then it might not be for you.

I disagree. Yes it creates a discontinuity between pvp and pve, you do have the option to make a pvp-only character. Although my attempts at gaining survivor have been ruined by lag (most recent one lagged out in a mission, when everything fixed itself, we had a party wipe).

Survivor title = play when you're too bored to do anything else. There are other titles and other things to do that are a lot less stressful. Although, there ARE certain builds that make getting the survivor title a joke.

It's for people who want to do it. What do you care if it's not in line with the relative leniency GW gives to death; some people want to make it harder for themselves. They sure as heck aren't removing a title this late in the game...really wish people would stop making threads about things that are never going to change.

To be honest, you whine because you are jealous over others that got the survivor title.
Because you can't manage to get yourself to get it.
So instead of taking your free choice and do something else, you whine on a forum about it?!?
Who cares what GW aimed for, it's a e-peen title and not the entire game!

The problem isn't survivor, the problem is that it can lose all progress without hope of restarting progress. You can always delete the character, but that isn't a very cost-effecient solution.

I don't mind the title so long as the title is COMPLETELY ERASED if they die even after having obtained it. Because someone who dies isn't a survivor. (That's the reason people used for arguing against second chances at survivor and it's the reason I'm using here.)

I don't agree.
Title is giving for getting xxxxx amount of exp without dying.
But what I find odd is that if you are going for the r1 of the title and die, the counter doesn't get a reset so you can try again.
If I should make such a title for a game, I would take the choice to let each rank require xxxxxx amount of exp.
Example could be (I'm using some random number who are not related to real exp)
r1 = 100exp without dying
r2=500exp without dying
r3=1000exp without dying
If you start to go for r1 and die, the survivor exp counter will be reset, so you can try again.
If you got r1 and go for r2 and die, the survivor exp counter will be reset to r1, so you can try again.
The same for r3.

This can't be done for GW1 since it will be unfair against people who got the title.
But it might be a good option for GW2.

The only change to the survivor title I'd like to see is it permanently displayed by characters going for it, so we don't have to find out someone is going for survivor when they drop from a mission rather than die and screw it up for the rest.

Survivor is a joke title when they added tomes, and didnt fix the ferry to docks. Max armor and every skill in the game at lvl 2, this does not make a challege. Plus there are tons of gimmicks that have made this title a snap to farm. I believeone of two things need to be done, either remove the title when character dies (he not a survivor anymore), or open it up for everyone by some means. Either add a means to wipe death count and XP and be at lvl 1 to attempt it again, make the title account wide, or just make make it soon u only need to farm the fation between deaths. Currently it is broken that old characters do not have access to this title, and also currently r6 KoaBD .
PS, made a survivor paragon, easy as heck to get survivor, just get to lutsgardis and ur set.

No, maybe you're not understanding it. The title isn't meant to be a "disadvantage" if you die. It's supposed to be a reward for the clever that can manage it. Not getting it doesn't make you disadvantaged or anything of the sort.

So, level restriction on tomes, armor sets, runes, insignias, max mods and weapons will help on making getting the title less of a joke?
I think it should be implemented into GW2 if so.

I think as well, making something that shows others if a character has zero deaths, is a real good idea.
At least this prevent the big surprise a party might get, if a survivor wannabe joins a mission and logs out at the first hard looking encounter.

And with a reset upon dead even casual players should be able to gain the title sooner or later.
But then again, there should be some way to show if a player got it the hard way straight from level one compared to the player that got it from level 20.
So that is a question about doing it in a way that is fair towards both players, so you don't have either of those complaining about the title on a forum.

Survivor it's not a real GW.

It's only about luck.
Thanks to Stars of Transference and tomes, a character can have a Survivor build since level 2. Luck with connecton is the only thing a player needs to get it.

No purpose, counterproductive
It's not a gold sink. Gives no benefits. It's not related to any 'achievement' action. Just kills. It's like one of the grind titles, but with no reason to grind othe than getting exp.
Some players may leave missions or areas if they are going for the title, bothering other players.

Really easy for nex characters, impossible for Devoted characters.
Can be done quickly just by questing if you have factions. And even much faster and easier if you sinple make the Drunken boxing Dungeon.
Just some captures in a 2xExp weekend, and done.

So... it's time for this title to be rethinked, reworked and revamped to make it a GW title.

Thread #999999 on this.

Stop the whining, stop the complaining, cut your crying.

It's not stressful.

<----No sympathy, it's really not that hard to get.

I have to side with Snow Bunny.

Currently PuGing Survivor in Tyria on my Mesmer, haven't had a single drama. Play smart, Think fast and Avoid mobs.

Oh and if you stop playing a game simply because of one little title ... then you should really get a reality check.

The title is working as intended, so doubtful ANet will change anything about it. The only criterion for getting this title is making it to ~1337 xp without dying. ANet didn't specify how that experience was to be earned.

I have five Legendary Survivors. Not one of them resorted to FFF or Jade Brotherhood farming or any other gimmick. Just play the game and don't be an idiot while doing so. My most recent project even managed to complete three other titles before reaching LS, including Tyrian Grandmaster Cartographer.

This is entirely absurd, and you know it. Check the mirror...your jealousy is showing.

Clearly whomever you've had to endure is not a viable Survivor candidate. No one who is serious about this title joins a pug. Ever.

I have survivor on my ranger and was going to go for legendary but decided to play Guild Wars instead. I might even remake him some time since he hasn't gotten very far, but only if I'm really bored. It's certainly not jealousy. Legendary Survivor is simple to obtain with enough grind put into it.

By doing survivor title easier would only result in characters having both Legendary Defender of Ascalon and survivor. The current state is enough, you can't have both and if you want one of them, create a new one or re-roll one of your older character. Don't change it.

You missed the point completely. There is no grind involved unless you do it intentionally to take shortcuts. I prefer to accumulate experience by completing quests and following the mission sequences. It doesn't get stale or repetitious like running Lutgardis five hundred times or whatever other ridiculous means of farming that have been suggested.

If you are more concerned with having the title than reaching it, then perhaps this particular one is not meant for you.

If you achieve LS through normal game play the chances are that the title is far from useless since the process of getting it has made you a better player at both tactics and strategy. When NF came out I decided to meet the challenge with a paragon. She did not use tomes or taxi to docks (sub-20 is the easiest part anyway and if you cheat there it will only come back and bite you later), H+H'd the three different campaigns and was about halfway through each when hitting LS (never had to teleport out of a fight either). After that she's been everywhere including DoA and she still keeps surviving

The Survivor Title is the only thing in the game that makes experience points after level 20 count for something. So please keep the Survivor title in the game. It makes the quest rewards better.

Erasing the title after someone dies is absurd, but allowing characters who never had a chance at it to attain it is not?

I have one survivor, my ritualist. I had a ranger that got to just shy of 1.2 million XP before a lag-caused death in Sunjiang District (yes, I made it through Arborstone and Boreas, with henchies, and no deaths.)

The main peoblem with this title is the way that it's set up, that a single failure makes you permanently unable to get it. My favorite posting on the subject was one that mentioned 1,337,500 XP + 1 death = legendary survivor. 1 death + 1,337,500 XP = nothing. It IS ridiculous that this title, along with LdoA, are the only 2 you can fail to get and then never get again. And LDoA, if you fail a death-levelling run somehow, you can still go back and keep at it until you achieve the title. Survivor is the only title, in all of GW, that you can FAIL to get, which is the problem. I'm with those who recommend that survivor simply be reset to 0, or to the last point if you already have ranks in it, upon death.

Will this cheapen the title? No. Once someone has the first rank of survivor, they are ALREADY 20. That's the easy part otf the title, and quite honestly, it is the part that anyone can do on a new character. The higher ranks of survivor are very time-consuming, but the agrument that "a level 20 character would have no trouble with the title" simply doesn't hold water: any level 1 survivor is already level 20 and prbably has max armor. It has been pointed out that older characters, the ones who never had a chance at survivor to begin with, would have a HARDER time getting it, because they would not be able to rely on quests or missions for easy XP: those qquests and missions were probably done long ago.

Is it fair to those who got the title the hard way? No. But then again, I don't think that the Jade Brotherhood farm is fair to those people either, and yet it has been going on for months and months. I think at this point, the damage is done, and the title should be available to anyone who is willing to put the effort into it with a character, not just those who are willing to recreate a character. I'll be honest, if I were to recreate any of my old characters, I would immediately set them up to farm the Jade brotherhood. Why not, since getting the title any other way is risky, and losign it means losing it forever?

And as for jealousy? Well, the jade Brotherhood farm is fairly well-known. Anyone can do it and have a legendary survivor in a very short amount of time. I haven't done it personally, because I think that it wouldn't be worth it to me, personally, to "earn" the title that way. but if i were able to earn the title, legitimately, on older characters, I absolutely would do what I could to do so. Which is more fair?

I just wished they would allow it for those of us who have our main characters befor they even had survivor but than again If they did that they would need to give glad points to everyone who used to rule RA before Glad title. /roar for 58 wins in a row with no glad point HEHEHEHE

You want me to re-roll a character with 4000 hours put into him because I can't get something that didn't exist when i started him?

I'm aint saying that you should do it but that's the only option you have today. Cause what happens if anet changes the current state of survivor title; making it possible for old and new characters to obtain it? We would have another title (Legendary Defender of Ascalon) to argu about why "we can't have it - because it didn't exist when I created my character"

So the buttom line is; if they change survivor, they have to change LDoA. Making them less valued and cheaped.

I'm in the same seat like you, I've a main character that I've invested more than 1500 hours. The only thing that keeps me going are titles and it has crossed my mind doing a re-roll so right now, I'm just concentrating on account based titles.

I also disagree. Survivor may not be "fun" as you put it, which is reasonable, but all of us trying to achieve it see it as another personal challenge, nothing more.

The people at ArenaNet said, "Lets not give huge rewards for staying alive that would give one player and edge of another. Rather, lets make a title which will be just for the sake of reputation. It's harmless and it won't give anyone an unfair advantage."

It's perfectly true. The only difference is that people have turned 'Getting survivor title' INTO something which a player must have to have an edge, even if because of reputation that you have an edge. I personally don't see anything wrong with it. If the only reason I'm not on par with a player with 5 characters with legendary survivor, it's because he plays better than me and not because the little text field saved under his name in the Guild Wars server say he has survivor title. In fact, it's an easily likely scenario that I would be better than that person in playing skill. The title only means if you're willing to grind for it, you have something to show for it.

If you don't want to grind for it, you've lost nothing that would give them an edge over you except perhaps experience.

Whenever ArenNet comes out with a new title, the entire population of guild wars players is divided into three parts: Those which spend hours obtaining it, those which whine about it existing (more than half of which because they cannot obtain it themselves), and then there are those who couldn't give a rat's ass about owning a title that would cause them to grind and not enjoy the game. Try joining the third group every once in a while. It's not so bad on this side.

I've accumulated 300+ hours of lost progress due to death and subsequent character deletion. Then there is the Dwayna-only-knows quantity of platinum wasted on armor and skills each time. But you will never see me complain about changing the title. I try and retry until I get it right. You know why? I want it more than you, and I'm willing to work for it.

Why not? Other people did, including myself. Perhaps you should've made this decision when Factions was released; you'd have lost significantly less time. Stop trying to bend the rules just because you missed an opportunity.

I'm willing to bet that most players raging about this title only want it for the +1 to GWAMM. You don't need it. There are plenty of others that are much easier, and a few are even buyable. Go for those.

This post is godly. Why deprive other people of the choice to work on a harmless reputation title just because you don't enjoy it? Since I fall into the first group of players (grind sucker that I am), you won't find any sympathy here for the whiners either .

for the uninitated, legendary survivor may seem harder than it really is. out of my 10 characters, 9 have legendary survivor. my oldest character doesn't have it because i didn't know about it back then. and frankly, i don't really care.

of all maxed titles, this one is by far the fastest to get depending on how you do it. i usually take a bit longer since i like to actually play the game.

i have 9 legendary survivor. i have used pugs while going for the title. and somehow if anything goes wrong, i'm the one who bails out the whole group.

eg, i did ring of fire in a pug last night on my surviving ranger; we even got the bonus. everyone else kept dying while i and my heroes had to continually rebirth everyone.

Let's make a suggestion so that you can get legendary survivor after gathering 5 exp, that'd satisfy the OP.