Shadow Refuge vs. Feigned Neutrality

Bowstring Badass

Bowstring Badass

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...

Purple Lingerie - :D

Well now that Shadow Refuge got a buff what will be more used?

I have been a fan of Shadow Refuge forever. But thats just me. It has a great recharge time but lacks an armor boost but won't wear off if you attack before it ends. Feigned Neutrality has an alright recharge (better with deadly paradox) but gives an armor boost and ends if you attack.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

Still gonna stick with Restful Breeze.
Don't have to waste attributes in Shadow still

Bowstring Badass

Bowstring Badass

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...

Purple Lingerie - :D

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Still gonna stick with Restful Breeze.
Don't have to waste attributes in Shadow still Screw you and restful breeze man lol.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

.. I win, ooohhh yeah... gogo Restful

Teh [prefession]-zorz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

wisconsin

Spiders Lair Kurz [SpL]

W/A

Feigned is basically a SoR :P

noocoo

noocoo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

I don't like the 1 sec cast time of shadow refuge, so I still stick my neutrality

BlackSephir

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

Shadow Refuge is like Healing Breeze i.e. crappy.
Shadow Refuge won't save you when you're at 100hp and there's a Lightning Hammer coming to your head.
On the other hand, Feigned will save you in this situation thanks to +80 armor.
Generally, regen as the only source of self-heal is rather meh

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Shadow Refuge is like Healing Breeze i.e. crappy.
Shadow Refuge won't save you when you're at 100hp and there's a Lightning Hammer coming to your head.
On the other hand, Feigned will save you in this situation thanks to +80 armor.
Generally, regen as the only source of self-heal is rather meh GFT

try way of perfection.

moko

moko

??uo??o??

Join Date: May 2006

i think shadow refuge is alright in some situations (shadow walk > dash, precast shadow, cast shadow when you're out of range, same with aod, etc)

feigned is more of an emergency skill when you got lots of stuff on you and need to negate the damage with +80 AL.

Azrayel

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

Knights of the Void

rather skip both the skills and use the dervish heal mystic regen, but if I had to choose one I would go with shadow refuge since it has a quicker recharge than feigned. Either way if you have to use either of these skills in a battle whether it be in PvE or PvP about 75% of the time you'll be eating dirt anyway..

R E Z E R

R E Z E R

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

Grenths Executioners [Reap]

N/

Refuge when you need constant self healing. Neutrility when you need armor + heal Vs dmg inducers. Done. >> Restful when A/Mo.

Dodo The Extinct

Dodo The Extinct

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Me/Rt

Quote:
Well now that Shadow Refuge got a buff what will be more used?

I have been a fan of Shadow Refuge forever. But thats just me. It has a great recharge time but lacks an armor boost but won't wear off if you attack before it ends. Feigned Neutrality has an alright recharge (better with deadly paradox) but gives an armor boost and ends if you attack. I agree. Feigned Neutrality is a good skill....but I don't want my only defensive skill to have a 25 second recharge

Teh [prefession]-zorz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

wisconsin

Spiders Lair Kurz [SpL]

W/A

please remind me, in pve how much does the 25sec. recharge matter.

jesh

jesh

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

San Diego, CA

Penguin Village

Mo/

None. =)

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

FN is more suited to what an assassin theoretically should be doing. Hit and Run. FN is a fantastic skill for this. Not only that, it is a safety button. If the shite hits the fan, use this skill and you can usually make it out without dying.

However, SR is better at mid-battle healing and healing minor damage. It is also great at countering degeneration.

SR is good at buying you time to finish what you are doing.
FN is good when things start going sour.

Both have their uses. I would only consider SR as a self-heal, FN is just an "oh crap" button.

Performance Pudding

Performance Pudding

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

post ascalon

Over The [Wall]

W/

first off to the sins that run in spike then run away i say ure noobs :P
second ya constant spike not gona tell it with refuge and way of prefection makes a sin fairly sturdy.

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Performance Pudding
first off to the sins that run in spike then run away i say ure noobs :P
second ya constant spike not gona tell it with refuge and way of prefection makes a sin fairly sturdy. first part: hahahaahahahahahaa..... wow

second part: learn to type, i have no idea what that says

ShadowsRequiem

ShadowsRequiem

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Inde is Smoking [Hawt] *ToA*

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
first part: hahahaahahahahahaa..... wow

second part: learn to type, i have no idea what that says Don't make fun of the mentally challenged.

LaserLight

LaserLight

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

La La Land

[NOVA]

A/

For most PvE purposes, Shadow Refuge works better as a spot healer and a degen counter skill, which should be what you need. In AB and other more disorganized PvP, I still go with Shadow Refuge, mostly as a degen counter and a method of keeping yourself going between battles. Mostly because for Feigned neutrality to be effective there, it needs a second skill as well (Deadly Paradox) and also requires that you reduce your offense to harsh language and/or directed farting. In high-level, organized PvP, I can't see Shadow Refuge being worth a skill slot, but the same rules apply for FN then: needs a second skill slot to be worth your time, doesn't let you attack.

Honestly, your choice, but me, myself, and I? I take Refuge.

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

Let's do some math.

SR @ 12 SM

Prebuff: 18 health per second, at 4 seconds: 72 health. Attack bonus: 68 health. Total: 140.
Recap: For 5 energy, you can potentially heal yourself for 140 points within 4-5 seconds every 8 seconds.

Postbuff: 18 health per second, at 6 seconds : 108 health. Attack bonus: 68 health. Total: 176.
Recap: For 5 energy, you can potentially heal yourself for 140 points within 6-7 seconds every 8 seconds.


Personally, if I want a heal, I want it here, I want it now, I want it to stay. SR now heals for more, but it's slower, and can be a downside ( shatter enchantment etc. ) It's better for fighting degen now, true, but the little spike heal of 68 health comes later, and could be fatal. I rather have that 68 health sooner, than getting 36 health over 2 seconds. That could be fatal.

Flame me.

Bobby2

Bobby2

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2007

Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards

[MaSS]

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanman.be
Flame me. Nope. I agree.

But maybe my vision is skewed because I'm not running a self-heal at all at the moment. Restful Breeze did not allow me to press the attack, Shadow Refuge offered too small a bonus to be viable (AB context again, but just quickly passing the Monk shrine means a +145 spike heal. Go figure ) so I swapped it out for a prep skill, which has proven INFINITELY more useful so far. So where I stand now:

Self-heals ain't worth it. People change their opinions based on their experience.

[skill]Leaping Mantis Sting[/skill][skill]Exhausting Assault[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Horns of the Ox[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Rend Enchantments[/skill][skill]Dash[/skill]...[skill]Shadow Walk[/skill] or [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

@ haters: yes I actually did myself 294 damage with RE once (at 3 Curses). Let's just say I love that spell to death.

Prof Of Black

Prof Of Black

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

@ Sensation Black

Death is Energy [DIE] ~ Raining fame alliance

I'm just going for 14+ dags, 13 crit.

No need for shadow for me.

~Prof.

Coloneh

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

dont need that much daggers

You can't see me

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

I agree. I have over 40 PvP Assasin Builds saved. I think maybe.... five of them have self heals?

The only place I bring a heal is in AB, when you've finished your kill, and your poisoned or bleeding, and low on health, mending touch comes in handy.

Shadow Refuge does not heal well overall. The 6 seconds aren't enough to do too much. The Feigned Nuetrality skill has way too long a recharge, but the armor buff is nice. But overall, the points in shadow arts aren't worth it.

I think Mending Touch is the best Assasin heal because of the small amount of points required, the low energy cost, the low energy cost, and the condition removal, which is often what seems to kill me.

Diddy bow

Diddy bow

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

Jawsome!!!!!!!!!!!

looking for one :p

A/D

Sr is ok in some builds, like in pvp if your attacking all the time. In 8v8 you dont really need a self heal, but in RA or W/E it tend to take SR over FN because it favors attacking rather than running away but is still an... alright choice if you run away anyhow (just switch to a wand for the bonus :P). FN is still ofc very usful, just a bit more situational.

Dodo The Extinct

Dodo The Extinct

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Me/Rt

Quote:
please remind me, in pve how much does the 25sec. recharge matter.
Please remind me when some1 said this thread is only about PvE.

O_o

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct
Please remind me when some1 said this thread is only about PvE.

O_o
The Campfire (257 Viewing)
PvE Builds and Discussion
Share your strategies, experience and tips here for builds and groups for PvE.

Dodo The Extinct

Dodo The Extinct

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Me/Rt

Quote:
The Campfire (257 Viewing)
PvE Builds and Discussion
Share your strategies, experience and tips here for builds and groups for PvE.
Is it just me or are the 2 threads above my last one about RA and AB? The Campfire is used for stuff other than PvE as well. That definition doesn't have much meaning anymore

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodo The Extinct
Is it just me or are the 2 threads above my last one about RA and AB? The Campfire is used for stuff other than PvE as well. That definition doesn't have much meaning anymore You asked a question, I answered it.

Yanman.be

Yanman.be

Banned

Join Date: Dec 2005

Belgium

[ROSE]

A/

I post pvp builds in here as well because you cannot post solo builds in TA/HA/GvG...y'know.

Longasc

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

The cast time kills it. Plus the aftercast. And if you can afford it and are A/mo, restful breeze is indeed better.

Jetdoc

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanman.be
Let's do some math.

SR @ 12 SM

Prebuff: 18 health per second, at 4 seconds: 72 health. Attack bonus: 68 health. Total: 140.
Recap: For 5 energy, you can potentially heal yourself for 140 points within 4-5 seconds every 8 seconds.

Postbuff: 18 health per second, at 6 seconds : 108 health. Attack bonus: 68 health. Total: 176.
Recap: For 5 energy, you can potentially heal yourself for 140 points within 6-7 seconds every 8 seconds. The only piece you are missing in your analysis is the 33% decrease in energy required under the new Shadow Refuge.

Sqube

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Behind you...

A/

Wait... what? 33% decrease in energy required?

If you're talking about the decrease in energy required versus health restored over time, you may have a valid point. However, that doesn't help you when the monkey starts flinging poo at the fan. If that's not what you're talking about, I'd love an explanation.