alright--
i need people's input here. what i do not want to see is someone telling me this post is crying or complaining, but rather--i am looking for constructive comments, tips, etc. to see if others are having just as hard of a time and what can be done to get past it.
it is looking near impossible to even get started in hardmode grothmar wardowns (or for that matter, who knows where else this may be happening) vs the charr. i have 8 ranks in agent displayed, at least some coherent plans put into my hero/hench builds, and enough sense not to just run into everything leeroy and smack at it (instead looking for the worst threat and taking it out first, then the rest, etc).
my h/h groups keep wiping just past the bridge and where the siege devourer is (after mounting). and nothing is dying except my party.
it is almost as if either the charr are way too overpowered, or the hench ball up in damage and don't heal or use their skills given to them. whatever it is, there needs to be a solution for h/h builds vs hardmode AI so our teams are not wiping on the first group...i mean this is just ridiculous---trying several upon several builds just to get past the first group...and not getting anywhere with it? i mean, geez, i can see this sort of behavior on boss groups, but wow...normal enemies...
anyone else having this type of problem? any helpful solutions? post here, it might make a difference for a lot of people attempting vanquishing in gw:en.
thanks ._.
i will update and contribute a mildly-ok build if it works before anyone has the chance to post :P
vanquishing in charr homelands
Graphik Desine
wetsparks
I can't wait to see how people come up to kill Molotov Rocktail (spelling?), the big devourer boss. He was an instant party wipe in normal mode, hard mode will be hell.
Bankai
I've had the same problem. I'm going to try it later on again. I think I'll take one full interrupter to put on the Flamecaller and a Pblock mesmer.
Seren!ty
I just tried Grothmar Wardowns, and I have only 1 word for it: Retarded.
This just isn't fun anymore, facing a group of 8 with 2 menders and 1 avenger = gg. No way you take that down, and might you drop one there's always the dominator with a 2s res chant.. fail.
This just isn't fun anymore, facing a group of 8 with 2 menders and 1 avenger = gg. No way you take that down, and might you drop one there's always the dominator with a 2s res chant.. fail.
crazybanshee
I vanquished Dalada Uplands last night (which is where molotov rocktail is located) it was pretty brutal. I got legendary vanquisher with h/h primarily so I know what I'm doing, and it was tough anyway. I got party wiped several times, but you know what... bring along consumables. I think doing some other areas when I didn't have consumables to remove dp was much harder. Not so much as a candy cane to my name.. try doing mineral springs with 60% dp on your entire party (the trick is to flag a monk hero back and not party wipe so you get sent back to town) Gwen is supposed to be much harder, and quite frankly was far too easy in normal mode. The hard mode difficulty is about what I'd expect, and when your party wipes a few times and is at 45% dp pop a consumable and keep going.
Shanaeri Rynale
Took 8 guildies and used 8 devourers (took 2 spare so 6 people in devourers and 2 monks). We simple left one guy at the portal while we ran to pick up a devourer. Took about 2.5 hours for all three zones. We got 30K reputation points to boot. Careful luring in the forest combined with shock and awe from the devourers made it great fun and easy to boot.
wilebill
OP, do not feel alone. Now, I did fine on Hard Mode in Drakkar Lake, Jaga Morraine, and Sparkfly Swamp. But the first group in Dalada Uplands wiped me. This looks doable, but it also looks way too much like work.
And is there anything to work for? My GWEN hard mode so far has produced truly rotten drops, behold they did indeed stink.
At the moment, I think Normal mode collects more title track points quicker and a bag of loot only slightly worse than GWEN hard mode loot.
And is there anything to work for? My GWEN hard mode so far has produced truly rotten drops, behold they did indeed stink.
At the moment, I think Normal mode collects more title track points quicker and a bag of loot only slightly worse than GWEN hard mode loot.
malko050987
I gave the zones a try just now, with a friend and heroes. Rushed through Dalada, killed the monk boss and rocktail (easy with pain inverter on rocktail, although I went and killed myself so he used up his first siege).
Sanctoth was ok at first, not very hard. Then we hit the grawl and wiped. And wiped again. And again. >.>
Doable with consumables and time, but frustrating
Sanctoth was ok at first, not very hard. Then we hit the grawl and wiped. And wiped again. And again. >.>
Doable with consumables and time, but frustrating
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale
Took 8 guildies and used 8 devourers (took 2 spare so 6 people in devourers and 2 monks). We simple left one guy at the portal while we ran to pick up a devourer. Took about 2.5 hours for all three zones. We got 30K reputation points to boot. Careful luring in the forest combined with shock and awe from the devourers made it great fun and easy to boot.
Now that's clever!
Kazamafury
We vanquished Dalada Uplands yesterday with 5 human players (we're r8-r7) and 3 heroes.
We did not run by far the best builds.
2 heroes were 2 aura of the lich MM's, sometimes had issues with them because of all the degen (mainly from the mantids). Once the minions were up, it was much much better to deal with the area because they would soak up the hex'es.
Another hero was your typical SS hero.
As for the players,
- I was running ZB prot, another ran typical LoD heal.
- One of us ran a really crappy monk build so we made him use the Devourer (btw the Devourer Boss didn't seem much of a problem for us, went down very fast, one of us may have brought Pain Inverter, not sure.)
- A typical splinter Barrage ranger.
- A R/A running Moebius Strike, I personally wasn't impressed by the build, but we decided to give the crappy monk the devourer.
Took about an hour to complete. The only consumables we used was Armor of Sanctity and a Powerstone (we made one bad pull and nearly got wiped).
Overall, definitely would have changed the 2 MMs around. Maybe give Sab's hero combination a try next time. I am thinking we would have been much better off. Remember to always go for the Prophet first, then Domination (it has a very quick Res Chant). Once both are down, they're basically just trying to stay alive and will no longer focus on their dmg output.
We did not run by far the best builds.
2 heroes were 2 aura of the lich MM's, sometimes had issues with them because of all the degen (mainly from the mantids). Once the minions were up, it was much much better to deal with the area because they would soak up the hex'es.
Another hero was your typical SS hero.
As for the players,
- I was running ZB prot, another ran typical LoD heal.
- One of us ran a really crappy monk build so we made him use the Devourer (btw the Devourer Boss didn't seem much of a problem for us, went down very fast, one of us may have brought Pain Inverter, not sure.)
- A typical splinter Barrage ranger.
- A R/A running Moebius Strike, I personally wasn't impressed by the build, but we decided to give the crappy monk the devourer.
Took about an hour to complete. The only consumables we used was Armor of Sanctity and a Powerstone (we made one bad pull and nearly got wiped).
Overall, definitely would have changed the 2 MMs around. Maybe give Sab's hero combination a try next time. I am thinking we would have been much better off. Remember to always go for the Prophet first, then Domination (it has a very quick Res Chant). Once both are down, they're basically just trying to stay alive and will no longer focus on their dmg output.
Hailfall
Sab's hero build is the way to go in HM in Eye..
The only thing that i have troubles with (even with that hero build) is the primary quest 'Assault on the Stronghold'.. thats a real pain..
The only thing that i have troubles with (even with that hero build) is the primary quest 'Assault on the Stronghold'.. thats a real pain..
sabriel warmonger
ummm can i ask what is sab's hero build?
Graphik Desine
sabriel:
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10202023
that is sab's hero build. i just checked it out. can't say it works yet on charr, as i have not tried it yet. BUT I WILL lol!
but i am glad to see i am not the only one having a horrific time. of course i don't wish horrific times on anyone else, just makes me feel better that it isn't me failing miserably at fail mode ._.
didn't realize vanquishing in gwen was supposed to be of extreme difficulty over vanquishing in the other 3 previous campaigns. not having problems with those... -_-
well thanks so far to those who have contributed to the frustration probs
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10202023
that is sab's hero build. i just checked it out. can't say it works yet on charr, as i have not tried it yet. BUT I WILL lol!
but i am glad to see i am not the only one having a horrific time. of course i don't wish horrific times on anyone else, just makes me feel better that it isn't me failing miserably at fail mode ._.
didn't realize vanquishing in gwen was supposed to be of extreme difficulty over vanquishing in the other 3 previous campaigns. not having problems with those... -_-
well thanks so far to those who have contributed to the frustration probs
Free Wind
Was farming points there today, vanguished this area 3 or 4 times.
Had no problems with this area. This is what I had:
MM (Horror, Fiend, Jagged, Blood of the master, Virulence, epidemic, SoLS, Dark Bond)
Norgy - E-Surge, Mistrast, Guilt, Power spike, Empaty, Shatter ench, Power Drain, rezz chant
Gwen - HeV, Mistrast, Guilt, Power spike, Shatter ench, Power Drain, Leech Signet , rezz chant
2 Hench Monks
Cynn
Herta
Myself as warrior (Tripple Chop, Cycle,Pain Inverter,Drunken Master)
Molotov Rocktail dies almost instantly with pain inverter slapped onto his ugly face
Had no problems with this area. This is what I had:
MM (Horror, Fiend, Jagged, Blood of the master, Virulence, epidemic, SoLS, Dark Bond)
Norgy - E-Surge, Mistrast, Guilt, Power spike, Empaty, Shatter ench, Power Drain, rezz chant
Gwen - HeV, Mistrast, Guilt, Power spike, Shatter ench, Power Drain, Leech Signet , rezz chant
2 Hench Monks
Cynn
Herta
Myself as warrior (Tripple Chop, Cycle,Pain Inverter,Drunken Master)
Molotov Rocktail dies almost instantly with pain inverter slapped onto his ugly face
Daldaen
I'm just curious how do you have Jagged Bones and Virulence, both elites, on your necro hero.
wolfwing
Heh well in NM, not sure if it will work in HM *was sort of 50/50 wether it would work* was I rush in with me in Siege tank *fighting rocktail* let him fire on me and then focus on me, have my hero's come running in and have them flagged to the base of rocktail and then just keep them basicly under him to try to avoid them getting nailed by the AOE.
Free Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daldaen
I'm just curious how do you have Jagged Bones and Virulence, both elites, on your necro hero.
I meant Animate Shambling Horror (sorry for the typo)
Marverick
Quote:
Originally Posted by wetsparks
I can't wait to see how people come up to kill Molotov Rocktail (spelling?), the big devourer boss. He was an instant party wipe in normal mode, hard mode will be hell.
Pain Inverter
You die, he dies
You die, he dies
Daldaen
Ah okay, that makes sense thought it might be that but had to check.
My Sweet Revenga
I wonder if bringing a pair of interrupters and frozen soil would work well against charr parties....
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabriel warmonger
Quote:
ummm can i ask what is sab's hero build?
Yes I can see this working with pain inverter against molotov rocktail. But you better make sure you're completely loaded up on minions and you get pain inverter on him first. Then when he sieges your entire party and all 10 minions, well that's 18x80=1440 damage right there. Pray that kills him cuz chances are that siege will wipe your party and the minions.
Yes I can see this working with pain inverter against molotov rocktail. But you better make sure you're completely loaded up on minions and you get pain inverter on him first. Then when he sieges your entire party and all 10 minions, well that's 18x80=1440 damage right there. Pray that kills him cuz chances are that siege will wipe your party and the minions.
Graphik Desine
lol...
update. i tried that hero build, and it works wonders in that area, definitely. i vanquished it, but that monk boss at the end nearly made me go insane. the build does not work all that well if your team has been dp'ed once and minion master killed off once during that last mob. once he or she (hero) is dead, you're pretty much screwed. and that is what happened to me
i had 2 necro heroes (wep or remedy, jagged), splinter/barrage ranger hero, myself on ss/pain inverter, cynn, talon, and 2 monks.
the splinter barrage was something i was trying, as she put it on the warrior, and never herself. but didn't seem all that wonderful, except for the fact that i had 3 interrupts on her. BUT she was the vip of the game, essentially, when the avenger's flesh of my flesh was interrupted over and over after the dominator fell.
every once in a while i had to go "cheap tactics" and put the devourer right in a bottleneck. the charr sometimes got stuck at it--which gave a lil bit of breathing room till the mob came back. not for long though, but enough to knock one down before the monks ran up to it to heal ._.
but i got thru it, that is the important part. patience and wacky tactics saved me here. oh and nearly half my stash of candy canes >< ><
good luck all who are still having problems. i wish you all the sanity too :O
update. i tried that hero build, and it works wonders in that area, definitely. i vanquished it, but that monk boss at the end nearly made me go insane. the build does not work all that well if your team has been dp'ed once and minion master killed off once during that last mob. once he or she (hero) is dead, you're pretty much screwed. and that is what happened to me
i had 2 necro heroes (wep or remedy, jagged), splinter/barrage ranger hero, myself on ss/pain inverter, cynn, talon, and 2 monks.
the splinter barrage was something i was trying, as she put it on the warrior, and never herself. but didn't seem all that wonderful, except for the fact that i had 3 interrupts on her. BUT she was the vip of the game, essentially, when the avenger's flesh of my flesh was interrupted over and over after the dominator fell.
every once in a while i had to go "cheap tactics" and put the devourer right in a bottleneck. the charr sometimes got stuck at it--which gave a lil bit of breathing room till the mob came back. not for long though, but enough to knock one down before the monks ran up to it to heal ._.
but i got thru it, that is the important part. patience and wacky tactics saved me here. oh and nearly half my stash of candy canes
good luck all who are still having problems. i wish you all the sanity too :O
Richardt
Me and guildie just Vanquished Sacnoth. Picked up two devourers and had no problems till we hit the forest. Party wipe a couple times-thankfully we both stocked up on CC's from the Snowman dungeon
Our heroes were:
Sab's three necro builds
HB monk
2 SF's.
I also H/H Grothmar and Dalada-Both times I was in Devourer. My heroes were (again) Sab's necros, and then I brought Mhenlo, Lina, Cynn and Herta. Only problem was Molotov-just flag out your heroes and hope for the best. He only got 6 of 'em dead near the end.
Hope that helps!
Our heroes were:
Sab's three necro builds
HB monk
2 SF's.
I also H/H Grothmar and Dalada-Both times I was in Devourer. My heroes were (again) Sab's necros, and then I brought Mhenlo, Lina, Cynn and Herta. Only problem was Molotov-just flag out your heroes and hope for the best. He only got 6 of 'em dead near the end.
Hope that helps!
Spazzer
Grothmar was retarded-hard from Longeye's. If you want to vanquish it, enter from the Dalada Uplands enterance.
So far I've vanquished Dalada and Grothmar. My build was 2 signet smite monks (me as a dual boon and a hero with mixed prot), a curses necro, a MM, Lina, Talon, Zoh, and Aidan. I did well until I entered the Charr fortress and met the charr monk boss. That group is pretty brutal and I came out of that fight 50 minutes later with everyone at 60dp except me (27 dp). The rest of the vanquish was relatively easy. If I could change anything, I would have given myself prot spirit and maybe had a 2nd BHA, even though I really think that 3rd prot monk helped.
It's too bad the rewards in the charr homelands don't match the effort.
So far I've vanquished Dalada and Grothmar. My build was 2 signet smite monks (me as a dual boon and a hero with mixed prot), a curses necro, a MM, Lina, Talon, Zoh, and Aidan. I did well until I entered the Charr fortress and met the charr monk boss. That group is pretty brutal and I came out of that fight 50 minutes later with everyone at 60dp except me (27 dp). The rest of the vanquish was relatively easy. If I could change anything, I would have given myself prot spirit and maybe had a 2nd BHA, even though I really think that 3rd prot monk helped.
It's too bad the rewards in the charr homelands don't match the effort.
Semyazas
Regarding Molotov Rocktail:
Dunno if it is just me, but suicidal tendencies aren't what i call the way to handle a boss. All you need to do is have a human player aggro him first and run up to him (remember how siege attacks fail, when u got too near to your enemy?). After this, he's just a normal warrior after all. A run skill might help, as well as "You move like a dwarf", but is not required.
As for the vanquishing stuff:
We used the same setup as for the Legendary Vanquisher, and it worked just fine.
2 human players (war and mes), MM, Sandstorm-Warder, SH, 2 LoD, 1 SoR-Prot.
1 or 2 wipes, when i over aggroed, but no trouble beside of that. Didn't even take too long compared too the asuran territories (Like 536 enemies Arbor Bay, lol).
Dunno if it is just me, but suicidal tendencies aren't what i call the way to handle a boss. All you need to do is have a human player aggro him first and run up to him (remember how siege attacks fail, when u got too near to your enemy?). After this, he's just a normal warrior after all. A run skill might help, as well as "You move like a dwarf", but is not required.
As for the vanquishing stuff:
We used the same setup as for the Legendary Vanquisher, and it worked just fine.
2 human players (war and mes), MM, Sandstorm-Warder, SH, 2 LoD, 1 SoR-Prot.
1 or 2 wipes, when i over aggroed, but no trouble beside of that. Didn't even take too long compared too the asuran territories (Like 536 enemies Arbor Bay, lol).
Red-Tide
Me and guildie (+6 heroes) did Dalada and Grothmar in about 2.5 hrs with little to no difficulties.
They key was 2 Dual attune Air spikers with blind and epidemic. Seekers (and every other melee) cant hit when blind. 2 Dual Atune blinders can blind and entire party in under 5 seconds.
As for Molotov - Pain Inverter FTW. We got it on him as we aggroed and he sieged once and was dead. It was that easy, we had Aegis and Battle standard of courage up so we took only partial damage from the siege attack which killed him instantly.
Im dreading the Asura areas, dinos are sickly overpowered.
If anyone wants the builds let me know and Ill post em.
They key was 2 Dual attune Air spikers with blind and epidemic. Seekers (and every other melee) cant hit when blind. 2 Dual Atune blinders can blind and entire party in under 5 seconds.
As for Molotov - Pain Inverter FTW. We got it on him as we aggroed and he sieged once and was dead. It was that easy, we had Aegis and Battle standard of courage up so we took only partial damage from the siege attack which killed him instantly.
Im dreading the Asura areas, dinos are sickly overpowered.
If anyone wants the builds let me know and Ill post em.
House Silvermoon
Frozen Soil > Charr res
DarklingKiller
To vanquish Dalada Uplands and Sacnoth Valley. I gathered 7 other allies (Two of which were monks) The eight of us went and grabbed Siege Devourers for each of us. Our monks got out of the Devourers and followed the group around LoDing us as we rampaged around crushing the Charr in our path.
The burning forest was incredibly easy with Siege Devourers as they have a high armor against elemental damage but you still need careful pulling or you may be ganked by incoming patrols.
The burning forest was incredibly easy with Siege Devourers as they have a high armor against elemental damage but you still need careful pulling or you may be ganked by incoming patrols.
Spazzer
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarklingKiller
To vanquish Dalada Uplands and Sacnoth Valley. I gathered 7 other allies (Two of which were monks) The eight of us went and grabbed Siege Devourers for each of us. Our monks got out of the Devourers and followed the group around LoDing us as we rampaged around crushing the Charr in our path.
The burning forest was incredibly easy with Siege Devourers as they have a high armor against elemental damage but you still need careful pulling or you may be ganked by incoming patrols. This is a good idea, and if anyone wants to include me in one of these runs while I'm online, you know my IGN. I'll happilly LOD while you do all the dirty work. :]
The burning forest was incredibly easy with Siege Devourers as they have a high armor against elemental damage but you still need careful pulling or you may be ganked by incoming patrols. This is a good idea, and if anyone wants to include me in one of these runs while I'm online, you know my IGN. I'll happilly LOD while you do all the dirty work. :]
T. Drake
Yeah Sab's hero build works fine.
I almost vanguished Grothmar Wardowns but failed at the monk boss. I'll give it another try and play as a Splinter Barrage Ranger, since the only real threat comes from the Charr elementalists meteor showers and thats easily interrupted. (played as a BHA ranger with epidemic, imo not that useful for this area though, because they remove it almost instantly no matter how many conditions you use to cover it)
I almost vanguished Grothmar Wardowns but failed at the monk boss. I'll give it another try and play as a Splinter Barrage Ranger, since the only real threat comes from the Charr elementalists meteor showers and thats easily interrupted. (played as a BHA ranger with epidemic, imo not that useful for this area though, because they remove it almost instantly no matter how many conditions you use to cover it)
Longasc
The point is that the charr homelands are a prime example of bad and dumbed down pve gameplay. just like wurms in the desolation.
You can kill the charr groups with heroes and henchmen, then it is REALLY friggin hard, with out without Frozen Soil.
You can do it with people and without siege devourers, then it is still hard.
But if you take the Devourer, just make sure it does not die, run away or bail out before it gets destroyed and you go through the areas like a knife through butter.
The more human players you get into devourers, the better. Then it becomes dumb. Some would say "fun", I say it is dumb and poor game design.
Give the Charr Apache choppers, Bazookas, anti-tank mines, whatever. Make these "mounts" which are REALLY FUN by themselves an integral part of the game, but not at the cost of such lopsided and silly level design.
You can kill the charr groups with heroes and henchmen, then it is REALLY friggin hard, with out without Frozen Soil.
You can do it with people and without siege devourers, then it is still hard.
But if you take the Devourer, just make sure it does not die, run away or bail out before it gets destroyed and you go through the areas like a knife through butter.
The more human players you get into devourers, the better. Then it becomes dumb. Some would say "fun", I say it is dumb and poor game design.
Give the Charr Apache choppers, Bazookas, anti-tank mines, whatever. Make these "mounts" which are REALLY FUN by themselves an integral part of the game, but not at the cost of such lopsided and silly level design.
Jecht Scye
I had two other guildies do Sacnoth Valley with me. We had one get in a seige devourer and tank all of the damage while I spread the hexes. It got someone difficult at times, but we never needed to use one of my powerstones.
Graphik Desine
Quote:
Originally Posted by Longasc
The point is that the charr homelands are a prime example of bad and dumbed down pve gameplay. just like wurms in the desolation.
You can kill the charr groups with heroes and henchmen, then it is REALLY friggin hard, with out without Frozen Soil.
You can do it with people and without siege devourers, then it is still hard.
But if you take the Devourer, just make sure it does not die, run away or bail out before it gets destroyed and you go through the areas like a knife through butter.
The more human players you get into devourers, the better. Then it becomes dumb. Some would say "fun", I say it is dumb and poor game design.
Give the Charr Apache choppers, Bazookas, anti-tank mines, whatever. Make these "mounts" which are REALLY FUN by themselves an integral part of the game, but not at the cost of such lopsided and silly level design. true, but you are sort of missing the point. there are several upon several people who play with just heroes and hench (for whatever reasons) and can only grab one devourer. one devourer just won't cut it, therefore charr zones become extremely hard. when i h/h, i tried inside and out of the devourer, and i am better off out of it. especially with my skillbar (ss/pain invert). but that may work for others...
You can kill the charr groups with heroes and henchmen, then it is REALLY friggin hard, with out without Frozen Soil.
You can do it with people and without siege devourers, then it is still hard.
But if you take the Devourer, just make sure it does not die, run away or bail out before it gets destroyed and you go through the areas like a knife through butter.
The more human players you get into devourers, the better. Then it becomes dumb. Some would say "fun", I say it is dumb and poor game design.
Give the Charr Apache choppers, Bazookas, anti-tank mines, whatever. Make these "mounts" which are REALLY FUN by themselves an integral part of the game, but not at the cost of such lopsided and silly level design. true, but you are sort of missing the point. there are several upon several people who play with just heroes and hench (for whatever reasons) and can only grab one devourer. one devourer just won't cut it, therefore charr zones become extremely hard. when i h/h, i tried inside and out of the devourer, and i am better off out of it. especially with my skillbar (ss/pain invert). but that may work for others...
Nighthawkeye
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hailfall
Sab's hero build is the way to go in HM in Eye..
The only thing that i have troubles with (even with that hero build) is the primary quest 'Assault on the Stronghold'.. thats a real pain.. I agree. I've finished vanqing all areas but Sacnoth with Sab's nec build team or variations, and was doing Sacnoth when I found I couldn't get past the gates. So I had to do the Vanguard missions and got stumped at this one.
But, after trying several alternatives, I took the advice in GW Wiki and dropped the SS nec for a monk on which I substituted ZB for Mark of Protection and finished it with h/h (MM, N/Rit healer, Monk, Mhenlo, Herta, Zho, and Eve - I am a Sin/Mes, carrying Ebon Battle Std of Courage, PwrSpike, and Pain Inverter).
I varried the advice in the wiki a bit by letting the Charr allies deal with the right Devourer while my team secured the left one, set it on left gate and flagged my team in front of it. Then moved over to help the Charr secure the Rt Devourer and, once done, set it on the Rt Gate.
At that point, flagged the monk away, then unflagged him so he could follow the Saurus who was coming down the trail to the gate, targetted the Saurus and forced the monk to cast MoP on the Saurus a few times. The rest of the team, flagged back at the L Devourer, took care of the spawning Charr trios just fine, allowing me to direct traffic with the monk and the Saurus, and ocassionally jumping in to help out on the left and right.
After the Saurus takes down the gate, killed the remaining Charr melee spawn, who by then had quit spawning, then took out the remaining Seekers around the gate from the ground with the ranged casters and Zho, and me casting Pain Inverter and PwrSpike, and then just entered the gate and took out the rest of the Hierophant's squads with usual HM tactics (but flagged everyone back of the stairs near the front gate after the destroyers spawned [you have to advance to a bit beyond the top of the stairs for them to do that] while the destroyers chewed up many of the charr, then proceeded to mop up the rest).
MoP was the key. I had tried lots of different heal or prot spells (because I didn't have MoP skill), going as a monk secondary myself and putting them on one of the nec heros, all without success. Finally, in frustration, bit the bullet and just capped the skill in the Frozen Wasteland, put in on the monk and ... bob's your uncle. /dance
The only thing that i have troubles with (even with that hero build) is the primary quest 'Assault on the Stronghold'.. thats a real pain.. I agree. I've finished vanqing all areas but Sacnoth with Sab's nec build team or variations, and was doing Sacnoth when I found I couldn't get past the gates. So I had to do the Vanguard missions and got stumped at this one.
But, after trying several alternatives, I took the advice in GW Wiki and dropped the SS nec for a monk on which I substituted ZB for Mark of Protection and finished it with h/h (MM, N/Rit healer, Monk, Mhenlo, Herta, Zho, and Eve - I am a Sin/Mes, carrying Ebon Battle Std of Courage, PwrSpike, and Pain Inverter).
I varried the advice in the wiki a bit by letting the Charr allies deal with the right Devourer while my team secured the left one, set it on left gate and flagged my team in front of it. Then moved over to help the Charr secure the Rt Devourer and, once done, set it on the Rt Gate.
At that point, flagged the monk away, then unflagged him so he could follow the Saurus who was coming down the trail to the gate, targetted the Saurus and forced the monk to cast MoP on the Saurus a few times. The rest of the team, flagged back at the L Devourer, took care of the spawning Charr trios just fine, allowing me to direct traffic with the monk and the Saurus, and ocassionally jumping in to help out on the left and right.
After the Saurus takes down the gate, killed the remaining Charr melee spawn, who by then had quit spawning, then took out the remaining Seekers around the gate from the ground with the ranged casters and Zho, and me casting Pain Inverter and PwrSpike, and then just entered the gate and took out the rest of the Hierophant's squads with usual HM tactics (but flagged everyone back of the stairs near the front gate after the destroyers spawned [you have to advance to a bit beyond the top of the stairs for them to do that] while the destroyers chewed up many of the charr, then proceeded to mop up the rest).
MoP was the key. I had tried lots of different heal or prot spells (because I didn't have MoP skill), going as a monk secondary myself and putting them on one of the nec heros, all without success. Finally, in frustration, bit the bullet and just capped the skill in the Frozen Wasteland, put in on the monk and ... bob's your uncle. /dance
apocalypse_xx
I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet~One word~Consumables. I used my usual H/H team that I achieved Legendary Vanquisher with, MM, SS and power block Mes, the 2 hench monks, myself being a monk, although I do little healing as I micro my heroes alot. I believe they can be vanquished no problem without consumables, but why not, they are relatively cheap and speed the entire process up so much. All areas vanquished with no trouble, unless I over agroed here and there, but that happens. Oh yeah, sometimes I went Ursan and still we flew through the areas no problems, I like the change from monking to killing stuff sometimes
Gigashadow
I initially ran into the same problem vanquishing Grothmar (across the bridge). I've vanquished everything else in EoTN now except for Dalala Uplands and Sacnoth, and Grothmar has been the only area which has given me any sort of trouble to date. I used Sab's build for everything, on rare occasions switching out the curse necro for a BHA ranger.
Anyway, I was getting fed up wiping across the bridge in Grothmar, so I decided to cheese it and switch to using Ursan Blessing and one consumable (that gave all party members more health for 30 minutes). Then it turned out to be quite easy, and I steamrolled through all the Charr parts of the zone before the consumable ran out. The rest of the zone was trivial.
With Ursan you can keep the healers and others locked down pretty easily with the AOE bear stun, and the damage output is also very high. Just use the run buff to get in there ahead of your team so that you get the initial agro, and you can sit in the middle of the entire group and AOE stun to your heart's content. You will have a high enough health total to not be in any real danger.
Anyway, I was getting fed up wiping across the bridge in Grothmar, so I decided to cheese it and switch to using Ursan Blessing and one consumable (that gave all party members more health for 30 minutes). Then it turned out to be quite easy, and I steamrolled through all the Charr parts of the zone before the consumable ran out. The rest of the zone was trivial.
With Ursan you can keep the healers and others locked down pretty easily with the AOE bear stun, and the damage output is also very high. Just use the run buff to get in there ahead of your team so that you get the initial agro, and you can sit in the middle of the entire group and AOE stun to your heart's content. You will have a high enough health total to not be in any real danger.
Andilator
... after i vanquished all areas in GW:EN with heroes and hench i was stuck on "Grothmar Wardowns" too.
well after several different team setups i had success with this:
Monk (myself) - WoH, Etheral, Cure Hex, Dismiss Cond, HP, PS, Ebon Battle Standard of Courage, Great Dwarf Weapon; Ebon r6, Deldrimor r10
Ritu Hero - Offering Spirit, Ancestors Rage, Spirit Rift, Essence Strike, Bloodsong, Flesh of my Flesh, BR, Splinter
Ele Hero - Glyph Lesser, Deep Freeze, Shard Storm, Ice Spikes, Glowing Ice, Maelstrom, Ward Harm, Water Att
Ranger Hero - Barrage, Savage, Disrupting, Leech Sig, Frozen, Ether Sig, Hex Eater Sig, Revealed Hex
+ Henchmen: Lina, Mhenlo, Herta, Zho
i wondered how easy it was with this team build - Great Dwarf Wep on the Barrage Ranger was just nice, + Splinter and all that wards helped alot, i only used the siege devourer + for the boss mob in the fort, using essence consumable for the whole area helps alot - time was 1:54 for the area
hope this helping some of you, who wants to vanquish Grothmar with H+H
well after several different team setups i had success with this:
Monk (myself) - WoH, Etheral, Cure Hex, Dismiss Cond, HP, PS, Ebon Battle Standard of Courage, Great Dwarf Weapon; Ebon r6, Deldrimor r10
Ritu Hero - Offering Spirit, Ancestors Rage, Spirit Rift, Essence Strike, Bloodsong, Flesh of my Flesh, BR, Splinter
Ele Hero - Glyph Lesser, Deep Freeze, Shard Storm, Ice Spikes, Glowing Ice, Maelstrom, Ward Harm, Water Att
Ranger Hero - Barrage, Savage, Disrupting, Leech Sig, Frozen, Ether Sig, Hex Eater Sig, Revealed Hex
+ Henchmen: Lina, Mhenlo, Herta, Zho
i wondered how easy it was with this team build - Great Dwarf Wep on the Barrage Ranger was just nice, + Splinter and all that wards helped alot, i only used the siege devourer + for the boss mob in the fort, using essence consumable for the whole area helps alot - time was 1:54 for the area
hope this helping some of you, who wants to vanquish Grothmar with H+H
tmakinen
There is a simple loophole for vanquishing Grothmar Wardowns without having to bother with the boss mob. If you do Against the Charr in hard mode (which itself is pretty trivial, takes 15 minutes max if you ignore all the optional objectives and make a beeline to the boss), you will end up in a vanquishable instance with an empty fort
lungshen
I have got Master of the north already couple months ago, while I admitted used the 8 devourers trick to vanquish all 3 charr zones. However there is a another way to vanquish these 3 zones without using devourers.
I had the toughest time just to get through the charr zones to get to the dungeons in HM (the 2 dungeons in HM I did last are the ones in sacnoth valley for obvious reasons). The dungoen that is on the south west of the sacnoth is full of charrs. I had a group of 5 guildies going with me, as you guessed, we couldn't even get pass the first group of Charrs!! due to their exploding arrows and the ability to rez quick. Then it got me thinking, WTF we did wrong and start re-examing our skills and figure out why it is designed that way.
Then it hit me>>>Remember the mission Blood Washes Blood where you have to infiltrate charr camp and kill those charrs? we didn't have trouble completing that mission in HM killing the same types of foes, but having a huge tough time in the charr explorable and dungeons, why??
The answer is this >> Ursan Blessing. Ursan Blessing is THE skill that is designed to kill group of charrs very effectively, especially in HM. Charrs don't like to move around much and they usually have a good formation >healers/caster in back, meelees in front. Ursan strike can spike any of their healers/caster down very quick while Ursan rage Knocks them down on the ground to keep them from self heal. Espeically warriors who can put sentinels insiginias, use signet of stamina/endure pain to boost your HP to around 1000 with cakes/pies/candy apples, these helps tremendously to counter their spike. Also, don't forget to stick a stonefist insignia so you can knock them down for a good 3 seconds.
Long story short:
3 ursans, 1 MM hero, 1 spawning rit hero, 1 restore hero, 1 monk hero. We ran through Grothmar/Sacnoth in less than 15 mins (HM), and finished the HM dungeon that is in the south west of the sacnoth in less than 30 mins. (It was like 12 minutes on first level, 10 mins on second level, and 7 minutes on 3rd level) and no deaths.
The same team setup should be able to vanquish all charr lands with ease.
Some may argue that Ursan is lame and dumbing down the game, well, at least the way I look at it, it is designed to take out the charrs ( think Blood Washes Blood mission)
Go ahead and try it.
I had the toughest time just to get through the charr zones to get to the dungeons in HM (the 2 dungeons in HM I did last are the ones in sacnoth valley for obvious reasons). The dungoen that is on the south west of the sacnoth is full of charrs. I had a group of 5 guildies going with me, as you guessed, we couldn't even get pass the first group of Charrs!! due to their exploding arrows and the ability to rez quick. Then it got me thinking, WTF we did wrong and start re-examing our skills and figure out why it is designed that way.
Then it hit me>>>Remember the mission Blood Washes Blood where you have to infiltrate charr camp and kill those charrs? we didn't have trouble completing that mission in HM killing the same types of foes, but having a huge tough time in the charr explorable and dungeons, why??
The answer is this >> Ursan Blessing. Ursan Blessing is THE skill that is designed to kill group of charrs very effectively, especially in HM. Charrs don't like to move around much and they usually have a good formation >healers/caster in back, meelees in front. Ursan strike can spike any of their healers/caster down very quick while Ursan rage Knocks them down on the ground to keep them from self heal. Espeically warriors who can put sentinels insiginias, use signet of stamina/endure pain to boost your HP to around 1000 with cakes/pies/candy apples, these helps tremendously to counter their spike. Also, don't forget to stick a stonefist insignia so you can knock them down for a good 3 seconds.
Long story short:
3 ursans, 1 MM hero, 1 spawning rit hero, 1 restore hero, 1 monk hero. We ran through Grothmar/Sacnoth in less than 15 mins (HM), and finished the HM dungeon that is in the south west of the sacnoth in less than 30 mins. (It was like 12 minutes on first level, 10 mins on second level, and 7 minutes on 3rd level) and no deaths.
The same team setup should be able to vanquish all charr lands with ease.
Some may argue that Ursan is lame and dumbing down the game, well, at least the way I look at it, it is designed to take out the charrs ( think Blood Washes Blood mission)
Go ahead and try it.