A discussion, LoD and WoH

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

16 Oct 2007 at 21:47 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets

Dear OP,
You are bad at Guild Wars. Please stop trying to claim otherwise.

qft. not just PvP, PvE to. you come across as quite the idiot.

Quote: Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT And you can flame all you want, but it doesn't make you right. correct! facts and information make me correct! what a surprise!

Quote: Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT This one is a gooder. Not only did he try to flame, but he also did it while making laughable assumptions.
I don't pug, son. then how can you say that there is no demand for prot in PvE... hypocrite

Quote: Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT Then please enlighten me as to some sort of nuking monk build. Because, you know, how am I wasting a party slot when I am the monk? If your team dosn't need healing and you are going along as a healer, then yes, you are wasting a spot in the team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT

And I don't call having 45/60 energy the entire time, "wasting". Maybe you do, but you don't seem entirely right as it is, or as you think you are. are you farmiliar with the term "overhealing"? i dont think you are. if you use a skill to give an ally a heal they dont need, you are wasting energy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT

In fact, this entire thread has turned from a discussion on LoD and WoH, as I intended, to a hatefest/flamefest of prot vs. healing monk builds are all about skills and attributes, if you can't understand that you are even worse at guild wars than I thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT

not a major concern in PvE because, last I recall, MONSTERS DON'T CALL STRATS AND GENERALLY SUCK. Monsters are really not as bad as you think. play less presearing and more high-end pve before you pretend you know what your talking about.

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

17 Oct 2007 at 01:35 - 42

Keep the flames out please.

BLOODGOAT

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

long a

Mo/

17 Oct 2007 at 03:26 - 43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

qft. not just PvP, PvE to. you come across as quite the idiot.

That's nice, but you haven't actually played with me, so kindly be quiet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

then how can you say that there is no demand for prot in PvE... hypocrite

Just because I don't heed "GLF" spam doesn't mean I don't read it. I always see "GLF HEALER", I never see "GLF PROT".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

If your team dosn't need healing and you are going along as a healer, then yes, you are wasting a spot in the team.

I repeat, show me this seemingly secretive super nuker monk build that I should be using as I obviously don't need to heal. Or I could just keep using my healing prayers since I'd be even more useless if I didn't carry one skill.

Quote: Originally Posted by Coloneh are you farmiliar with the term "overhealing"? i dont think you are. if you use a skill to give an ally a heal they dont need, you are wasting energy. Are you familiar with the term flaming? I don't think you are. I specifically said not to and that this was a discussion on which any person as a healing monk prefers, not a battle between LoD vs. WoH, Heal vs. Prot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

builds are all about skills and attributes, if you can't understand that you are even worse at guild wars than I thought. That's amusing. Maybe I'll dump all my points from healing prayers into smiting prayers, change my secondary to Warrior, and run a full prot build WITH frenzy AND mending!!1!
M I DOIN IT RITE?!1?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Monsters are really not as bad as you think. play less presearing and more high-end pve before you pretend you know what your talking about. M'kay. I'm pretty sure they are, because I slaughter them (and not just in pre). However, for the sake of, I'm just going to throw this in:

"600 LF SMITE HM FOW" * 1000
SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM

LightningHell

(????????????)???

Join Date: Aug 2005

Hong Kong

Guildless

Mo/

17 Oct 2007 at 04:26 - 44

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT

If the team could've functioned without your healing, maybe they're better off with another damage character. If you're dead weight, you might as well be kicked for another damage character.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT

Are you familiar with the term flaming? I don't think you are. I specifically said not to and that this was a discussion on which any person as a healing monk prefers, not a battle between LoD vs. WoH, Heal vs. Prot. The problem lies in WoH functioning better in a full heal build, and LoD being better in a hybrid healing/prot build, so you really can't have a discussion of these two skills without a discussion of monking in healing or protection as a whole.

Melody Cross

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Alliance of Anguish [aOa]

Mo/

17 Oct 2007 at 05:25 - 45

Nah. LoD is great in a pure healing build. Arcane Mimic HBoon from another monk=1 skill alleviates all pressure.

Of course, thats for HM with a 3-monk lazy backline

WoH is not a good elite to bring. Thats...pretty much it. In 4v4 areas, run the ZB/ You'll save energy over time and be providing your team with prot and healing. In 8v8, you want LoD for catching an off-tank strike. A meteor that gets loose, something. The best tank in the game won't hold agro perfectly, and thats why most people run 2-monk backlines in the first place: to deal with what gets loose and starts hammering squishies.

If the argument for WoH is that its smarter for a monk to bring with a "good" team, then its a /failure of an argument. In a perfect agro situation, a decent monk can keep the tank alive and healthy with SoA and PS. If you get a "perfect agro" every time from your tank, then running heavy healing is not what he needs; you need to help him tank. Prots help him tank.

But its 1 time in a hundred that you'll see a perfect agro from a good tank (1 in 10 from the really great ones). Things break loose, damage dealers charge too early, the tank takes a hard hit and you have to run in and keep him up.

That is why LoD is prefferable to most other monks over WoH. In perfect situations, you dont need a spike heal. In non-perfect agro situations, you don't WANT a spike heal. You want an efficient team heal so the casters don't wipe.

Coloneh, stop flaming BLOODGOAT. And BLOODGOAT, stop beating this dead horse. You do come off sounding a little silly being so persistent...

BTW: most PuGs that are spamming "GLF HEALER" are not looking for a monk. they're looking for anything that will make red bars go up. Rit, paragon, D/Mo or monk. They don't care. Avoid them; they like to wipe and blame backlines.

GGs

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

17 Oct 2007 at 06:11 - 46

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT

Just because I don't heed "GLF" spam doesn't mean I don't read it. I always see "GLF HEALER", I never see "GLF PROT".

like i said, PuGs are stupid. i thought we had this down?

Quote: Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT I repeat, show me this seemingly secretive super nuker monk build that I should be using as I obviously don't need to heal. Or I could just keep using my healing prayers since I'd be even more useless if I didn't carry one skill.

You are the only one who thinks there is a nuking monking build. what i told you to do was go run in circles around the merchant or something so the team can get a character that adds damage, because you are not doing anything, maybe you could go smiting?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT Are you familiar with the term flaming? I don't think you are. I specifically said not to and that this was a discussion on which any person as a healing monk prefers, not a battle between LoD vs. WoH, Heal vs. Prot. I was not trying to insult you. I apologize if you took offense. I was trying to educate you on being a better monk. Im sorry

Quote: Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT

That's amusing. Maybe I'll dump all my points from healing prayers into smiting prayers, change my secondary to Warrior, and run a full prot build WITH frenzy AND mending!!1!
M I DOIN IT RITE?!1? honestly, this makes no sense at all. I said you need to establish the purpose and attributes of a build before you can say which skill is better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLOODGOAT

M'kay. I'm pretty sure they are, because I slaughter them (and not just in pre). However, for the sake of, I'm just going to throw this in:

"600 LF SMITE HM FOW" * 1000
SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM do some dungons, maybe some Urgoz/deep, maybe even Fow/Uw. please note that running an invincimonk farming build is an entirely different thing from running a monk, don't compare the two please.

Captain Robo

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

I've had it with guilds.

E/Me

17 Oct 2007 at 06:16 - 47

Quote:

do some dungons, maybe some Urgoz/deep, maybe even Fow/Uw. please note that running an invincimonk farming build is an entirely different thing from running a monk, don't compare the two please. If you can clear an area using a single monk, much less, a botting program, the game is not sufficiently hard for eight people working together.

A while back, I remember someone who found a way to three-man Urgoz's Warren. No PVE in Guildwars is difficult if you know what you're doing. If you disagree, I challenge your eight person team to try and take on Rebel Rising. How's that for high end PVE?

Div

I like yumy food!

Join Date: Jan 2006

Where I can eat yumy food

Dead Alley [dR]

Mo/R

17 Oct 2007 at 07:43 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Robo

If you disagree, I challenge your eight person team to try and take on Rebel Rising. How's that for high end PVE? Maybe if 7 out of 8 players on rawr err7, the mending wammos have a chance

BLOODGOAT

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

long a

Mo/

17 Oct 2007 at 15:33 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

If the team could've functioned without your healing, maybe they're better off with another damage character. If you're dead weight, you might as well be kicked for another damage character.

But my heroes can't function without me, can they? They need someone to lead them. And if I, as I have stated numerous times, am a primary monk, despite whether or not my team in fact needs healing (which in my experience only the henchmen do, because they're terrible), what else am I to do? Spam Banish and Bane Signet after turning myself into some sort of smiting nuker?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightningHell

The problem lies in WoH functioning better in a full heal build, and LoD being better in a hybrid healing/prot build, so you really can't have a discussion of these two skills without a discussion of monking in healing or protection as a whole. Oh hey, look at me, I have a full healing build. w00t
Quote: Originally Posted by Coloneh You are the only one who thinks there is a nuking monking build. what i told you to do was go run in circles around the merchant or something so the team can get a character that adds damage, because you are not doing anything, maybe you could go smiting? No, actually, I don't think there is a nuking monk build. Your sarcasm card needs to be upgraded.
You're saying I'm wasting a team slot when my team doesn't need healing, so I should just leave and do something else. Yeah, that's nice except... heroes don't care if I contribute to the success of a mission or quest. The only thing they need is someone to lead them, which I do. And as a primary monk, there are only so many things I can do, and outputting massive amounts of damage to help drop foes even quicker doesn't happen to be one of them.
Sure, I could run a semi-bad smiting build and, as I just mentioned, spam Banish and Bane Signet, but I already have 2 nukes and a semi-bad "nuke" *cough*Cynn*cough*.
Quote: Originally Posted by Coloneh

I was not trying to insult you. I apologize if you took offense. I was trying to educate you on being a better monk. Im sorry LoL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

honestly, this makes no sense at all. I said you need to establish the purpose and attributes of a build before you can say which skill is better. "Your sarcasm card needs to be upgraded."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Melody Cross

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Alliance of Anguish [aOa]

Mo/

17 Oct 2007 at 16:18 - 50

Not to burst any bubbles, but there actually are some solid Monk AoE pressure builds. Glyph of Renewal and PBAoE smites can get rather nasty in the right hands. One of the reasons why smite ball was popular for a while was the armor ignoring aspect of the damage. I wouldn't recommend running Balth Aura on the build, but I've had some PvE success in Shards with a ZF support smiter using Glyph and some PBAoE. Outside Orr, I run pure utility builds because its more efficient for me to run them. But for people who suck at utility backlines, or players who just want a change of pace, thinking outside the box has certain rewards.

Just goes to show, you can really run anything. Whther its efficient and worth using or not is the matter of debate.

But the discussion is about LoD and WoH. I don't understand where the smite warz came from in this thread, but when taking either skill into account, I wouldn't run either of them on a smite build...

@BLOODGOAT: for someone who wanted to keep the flames out of your thread, you sure do seem to revel in the attention Coloneh is granting you. That sarcastic slant at LightningHell for posting a coutnerpoint--a couple of quite valid counerpoints--makes me doubly suspicious. Frankly, I smell troll...

Edit: no, 5-manning FoW--even HM--is not as pressure intense as backlining for an 8 man team. The 8-man balanced team is the focus of the discussion, not the exploit farms (and who uses WoH or LoD in those?).
GGs

Nkah Sennyt

Awaken from hiatus.

Join Date: Apr 2006

Riding the spiral.

No Fun Allowed [Vdya]

17 Oct 2007 at 19:32 - 51

Starting a thread to argue about stuff is dumb.