Your thoughts about GW2 Professions

That's actually the reason why race-system in most MMOs is crappy.
Let's say in GW 2 I'd like to make an Elementalist. Now, Asura have + energy (I made this up) but I simply don't like how they look.
So either have weaker character or bear with looking at something you don't like.
Only humans in GW 1 is a major con for me.

When I was gathering information about GW2, I came to the conclusion that the focus would be on the Pve content rather then pvp, it would be very similar to WoW.
Witch brings me to the skills and class difference between guildwars and wow. If u have played both game u notice a huge difference in the skills in guildwars and WoW.
For example:

When they make GW2 i hope they keep the versatility of the skill system that was used in GW1. I mean, u can do so many different things with the same class, for example an elementalist in guildwars can do very different things with all the different spells. Sadly enough are fire magic spells the most commonly used in pve (nukers), this is very understandable because of the large number of Aoe spells in fire magic. U don’t see a lot of eles using the other attributes like water, air in pve. The other 3 attributes are more used in the pvp arenas.
But in Wow, u don’t even have a choice, the only thing u can do is play nuker, even if u go Ice magic, its still Aoe damge mixed with a bit slowdown. And the same goes for all the other classes, except for maybe the druid, that can spec in different “attributes” and can choose more or less what he wants to do. My point is, classes in WoW are bound to a very specific task with makes playing that class very boring very fast…
Warrior = tank (spec in dmg, but these type of warriors are not so wanted later in the game)
Mage = nuker (crowd control)
Priest = heal
Druid = depends
Rogue = crowd control
Hunter = nuker (more focused on single targets)
I fear that GW2 will have professions that will function in a very similar way because of the focus on Pve, created for only one objective (nuke, tank, heal,…)

In Wow u have less spelles but u have different levels of the same spell, u have: fireball level 1 ,2, 3, 4,… every time the level increases the mana cost increases as well of course.
This why of skill level increase is chosen, because leveling main thing in Wow. A level 60 mage that casts a level 1 fire ball will be about as strong as a level 1 fireball casted by a level 5 mage (lvl 60 has higher stats so I can imagin it will be a bit stronger). The only difference is that the lvl 60 mage has level 20 fireball unlocked that will do more dmg of course
While in guildwars u have one kind of fireball that increases in strength if u put more attribute points in fire magic.
I hope we keep the way attribute points work and the large number of different spells that we have available, and not copies of the same spell with higher level.

As for the diffrend races, that doesnt have to be a big problem...
check the racial traits on this site, u notice that the benefits every race have are very limeted:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Racial_Traits

It'd be nice if every race could be any class but they all had natural strengths and weaknesses. For instance, a human warrior would have more energy or agility whereas a charr warrior would have more brute strength and almost no energy. Things like that.

I disagree with natural weaknesses. I like the idea of races having natural strengths, though. Also, special abilities unique to their race, which work like Primary Attributes. I was thinking along the lines of:

Charr - Higher armor (can wear heavier armor, natural hide), faster spell casting, increased adrenaline gain. Special Ability - Pack Hunting (faster attack and cast speed when near/adjacent to allies)

Norn - Higher health, Increased damage (spells and attacks). Special Ability - Transformations (bear, wolf, raven, etc.)

Asura - Higher energy regen, cheaper skills (expertise, but for all skills). Special Ability - Engineering (Ability to create golems, gates, etc.)

Sylvari - Natural health regen, naturally shortens conditions. Special Ability - probably controlling plantlife, possibly the ability to go into a cocoon for massive armor and healing, with the drawback of being unable to attack/activate skills, etc.

Humans - Slightly higher health and energy (Norns would have higher health, obviously). Special Ability - can use secondary attributes as primaries (full power w/runes, etc).

So, yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Basically, no matter which race you chose, it could work for any class, it would just work differently. Fast casting? Charr. Want to spam spells? Asura. More damage? Norn. General survivability? Sylvari. Want versatility? Human.

Yes, this kind of thing is also something I have in my mind ..the classical RO System is imo the best Character Evolution System, a MMORPG can have, it gives the players a very wide structure of professions, where the player can choose his path part by part, but on that Ill come later with a next post.

Want to mention: Vampires are NO profession, Vampire is a RACE


Summoners are all in, for Undeads (Necromancer), for Ghosts (Ritualist), for Spirits (Ranger) and for Demons/Souls (Animamancer)

Guns will not exist in GW2, to futuristic...maybe Crossbows but that was it and Crossbows are somethign for Rangers/Rogues

been discussed already but SS and DD are one step away from making them (explosives), Luxons use siege Cannons, and Kurzicks have some kind of mega beam lazer thingie. Seeing as GW2 will take place generations in the future, barring some disastrous technological backslide most races should have access to some kind of chemically/magically accelerated portable weaponry.

in fact i would be surprised if they were not already making some attempts at flight by then. War(and the threat of) makes technology advance in leaps and bounds you know.

The list above I made there is only 1 Kind, of how so much Professions can be handled, when you don't want take in so much the good RO System into it and when it should look more like GW's System.

When we would create in GW2 a real well thought out Profession Career System, then everyone would start GW2 first as "no profession".
The Player would start as some sort of "Novice", a normal townsman/woman, which starts as disciple by a Profession Master NPC to learn his/her 1st profession. (Core Profession)

Those Core professions would look like than this:

Warrior
Mage
Thief
Merchant
Archer
Akolyth

This are the 6 absolute most Core Classes, you can imagine, nothing else is more "core", then those 6.

Now, the player could increase in his/her Career by reaching a certail Base Level and by reaching a certain Profession Level

Say for example both levels need to be 10, before the player can rise from his Core Class to an advanced form.

The Warrior for exampple would have now the possibility to choose either the way of the Knight, the Legionaire, the Dualist or the Guardian for example.

When you reach then now for example base/prof level 50, then you receive with your Charactrer the possibility to increase your Carrer level to a Master Class

The Knight could for example now specialize more in a kind of which Knight you want to be > Order Knight, Crusader, Dark Knight
the Legionaire would become a Soldier or more an Army Leader , the Dualist could improve to an Gladiator and so on

There ,the very much kinds of Classes would be all bound on the Core CLass and the player just improves only his Character and rises in his Characters Career over time, with having the possibility, which path of your Career you want to choose.

In Regard of which path you have chosen ,your character receives than naturally different Skills, different Armors, different Weapons and Weapon Types, also different new additional Attributes to the Core Attributes.

I played RO for years, before i changed to GW and I can ever only praise its simple, very easy to understand Character Evolution System, which allows to have lots of different Classes in a game like a Surprise Egg boxed in a 3 in 1 box. A System, that enables the player really to create a class, that you really want to be, because the system will have every imaginable possible Profession as "Career" in it and the player just needs only to create a character and has to choose the right paths of character evolution to become the profession, you want to be.


Some career examples:

Core > Advanced > Master > Elite
Warrior > Knight > Crusader > Paladin
Akolyth > Monk > War Monk > Zaishen Monk (in regard of Shaolin XD)
Mage > Sorcerer(Mesmer) > Wizard > High Wizard
Akolyth > Priest > High Priest > Prophet
Archer > Poacher > Hunter > Sniper
Archer > Scout > Vanguard > Ranger
Thief > Rogue > Grave Robber > Relic Hunter
Thief > Ninja > Shinobi > Assasine
Warrior > Guardian > Samurai > Shogun (Sensei)
Mage > Shaman > Necromancer > Warlock
Mage > Ritualist > Medium > Astralist
Mage > Scholar > Elder > Sage
Merchant > Alchemist > Druid > Creator
Merchant > Blacksmith > Whitesmith > Runesmith
Merchant > Fortune Teller > Visionary > Oracle
Thief > Dancer > Gypsy > Dervish
Thief > Pirate > Corsair > Captain
Warrior > Knight > Dragon Knight > Dragoon
Mage > Animamancer > Demonologist > Occultist
Merchant > Musician > Bard > Minstrel
Warrior > Knight > Order Knight > Guild Lord
Warrior > Knight > Dark Knight > Death Knight
Warrior > Fighter > Dualist > Gladiator
Warrior > Soldier > Legionaire > Army Leader
Merchant > Inventor > Engineer > Mechanist
Thief > Clown > Jester > Harlequin
Thief > Spy > Saboteur > Stalker
Warrior > Executioner > Berserker > War Master
Mage > Cleric > Templar > Saint
Mage > Puppeteer > Doll Master > Psion
Mage > Arcanist > Glyphologist > Runologist

You see, with a career System like this, theres a profession in it for everyones's taste and they all can base on those 6 Core Classes


PS: Luxon's Siege Cannons are nothing special futuristic, they even look like Cannons from the Middle Age, but Gun Weapons are far too futuristic versus those Siege Weapons, which work with old technology and can only be used with those huge turtles
http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/5/58/Siege_Turtle.jpg
Look at the pickture, how those cannons are bound to the turtles !! with WOOD, only the Cannon itself is out of Iron and the thing shoots with Gun Power, which is in those Barrels ...
Theoretical and for realism, there should be 1 Luxon on that turtle, who puts ever new powder in the cannon, so that the whole thing works ...

Kurzicks have a fantasy weapon, that has nothing to do with technology ,neither with realism.
Do you knw, what technology it needs, to create the small things, that are needed to create a Hand Gun (Pistol), thats imo still far to futuristic ...
GW startet at a inspired from the european Middle Age, at a similar year of 1200+
GW2 plays now 150-250 years later, which means to the similar middle age, that we would be then in the year 1350-1450 ... that are 250 to 150 years still far away from the years, when Guns got invented, so we would theoretically need a GW3 before the game reaches a time age, where Guns could be implemented, when we would take the time age of GW serious and would ignore the fantasy parts of the game, which let it more look like a FF Clone, when Anet makes so further ...

fact= Luxons and Kurzicks have cannons. they shoot each other with them.
so what its made out of wood or it needs no ammo...ITS ON A GIANT TURTLE!
(magical wood and teleporting ammo whatever)


yes i do know what level of tech you need for a handgun, i never said handgun i said "portable". considering the advantages of living in a magical world AND using tech at the same time its not far fetched to think some clever person(read: dwarf) would come up with a musket/blunderbuss style weapon.

im not proposing Glocks and FN2000 style weapons here....in our real history cannons were about since round 1200 and muskets about 1400.

dude they should be thinking about hot air or drake balloons, using wurms to build tunnels and canals (combined with a little explosive knowhow) The SS built a GIANT mining robot powered by Djins!, and the Assuran.. well a few of them get together and basically create Magical AI Combat Robots!

rifles? handguns? peanuts!

not everything that combines magic/fantasy and tech has to be FF...its LIMITLESS.

Crossbows would be nice. (The old kind.)

With a revamped 3-D interactive world (swimming, jumping, etc) it would make sense that Guild Wars would have flying as well.

Maybe.

I don't play WoW, but some of these seem broken:

Can only dwarves find treasure?

And what's with the Draenei?

Gift of the Naaru
Activate to heal your target for 35 + 15 per Level over 15 sec - 40 yd range - 1.5 sec cast - 3 min cooldown. (At level 1 it heals 50 health, and 1085 at level 70)
Heroic Presence
Increases chance to hit by 1% for you and all party members within 30 yards. (Warriors, Paladins, and Hunters)
Inspiring Presence
Increases chance to hit with spells by 1% for you and all party members within 30 yards. (Priests, Mages, and Shaman)
Gemcutting
5 point skill bonus to Jewelcrafting (note, this also raises the cap by 5 at each level of jewelcrafting).

Is that as powerful as it sounds? Is this a case of "power-creep" (ie, with each expansion, the Classes get more and more powerful. Death Knight comes to mind...)

Also, I noticed that some races get bonuses for particular classes. The problem with this, as noted before, it discourages creativity, and people will only make Night Elf Rogues or Gnome Engineers.

Jeepers, just read the Blood Elf. Why would a caster play any other race?

Yep. I was blood elf during the beta over there, and there is no better class for casters... IMHO. the thing was by the time I grinded up my character in beta I really had no interest in playing another race from scratch. lol Thats one thingI have to give to Anet with GW1. It was equally balanced no one class was a whole lot better then another per say. And in all reality the playing style didnt change a whole lot between classes either... so you could go from one to the other seamlessly for the most part.
Hopefully they will maintain that in GW2. but we will see.

Who is to say they secondaries profs the only reason for that was for unlocking skills as you really never had to play your secondary?It is far to early to speculate but if you consider the HoM there might be some similiarites.

I'd like to see no heavy-healer profession anymore: they put too many restrictions on group formations, because in 99% of the cases they impose themselves as the only indispensible profession.

Please, no more "GLF healer (till the end of days)"!

....what? is it a question?

"are secondary professions are the only reason that make unlocking skills worthwhile seeing as people never really play as their secondary?"

or a statement? what does HOM have to do with it? are you referring to toon based titles and the focalisation on single toons?

If its a question then, "maybe, but people play as their secondary all the time. Unlocking skills is fun and yes titles has made playing other chars less worthwhile BUT it was the case before as well seeing as skills are non transferable". It costs a LOT of gold and time to get all the skills (and now titles...)

As a side note enabling toons to use secondary profession runes would go a long way towards promoting "true" secondary professions.
I think the only argument against that was the fact that people would refrain from investing in other classes seeing as their main char could do it nearly as well (barring primary attribute perks). However that argument is no longer valid since the introduction of toon based titles has resulted in the same effect.

could you try to be clearer next time please.

Phoenix Tears: Handguns first appeared in Europe in the 1300s. It took several centuries for them to be made accurate and reliable enough to take over the battlefield, but their first appearance wasn't long after cannons were made. It doesn't exactly take a genius to come up with the idea of trying scaling down siege technology to a portable form, after all...

I'm not convinced that wouldn't result in certain races and classes being combined. Just right off the bat, there's nothing in there for an Asura using adrenal skills (of course, the typical Asura would probably eschew such classes anyway so that specific case isn't really that much of a problem, but it illustrates the point).

I'd rather see the skills of a particular profession be made available as, essentially, another attribute rank with skills attached to it. We've already got the title tracks to illustrate what might be in the Asuran, Norn and human (Ebon, Sunspear, Kurz/Lux) 'attribute', while we have at least one possibility for the Charr in the "Gloat" monster skill. Basically, instead of providing some hard benefits, each race gives a few skills that may either enhance their profession, or fill some gap in their profession's capabilities.

For example, an Asuran Mesmer (-equivalent) may react to enemies getting too close by summoning bodyguards, a human might drop a Battle Standard of Courage, while a Norn might simply respond to transforming into a bear and ripping them apart. None of them have anything that directly makes them a better Mesmer - but they may have different options available for when being a Mesmer isn't working so well. Or they could just ignore their racial abilities and focus on being a better Mesmer, with the race just being a question of story and cosmetics.

I just want to make a Asura Assasin/Dervish for no other reason than it would be fun. Assuming races have differing abilities, professions should not be limited to match those race abilities. There are always going to be those misfits in a society that pick up a profession that don't actually fit their natural talents. Besides, it's a game. My Asura Assassin/Derivish sounds like *fun* to me.

Oh I agree with this entirely. That's why I suggest a fighter monk/cleric, who focuses more on dealing damage and less on the heal/prot aspect. Add to that, every class having multiple decent self-heals, and a handful of assisting heal/prots that can apply to other targets. That way, no one depends on the monk for healing, and the monk only aids in battle, instead of becoming the most important class in the team. Honestly, balance should be more focused on the use and perceptions of all the classes, rather than the details of skill vs. skill.

Well, true, and it was just an example. However, I thought about martial classes with the Asura - they use an Expertise-like system. Rangers are renown for being able to play any secondary as a primary for that reason alone. Cheaper energy-based attack skills would be truly awesome, and if there were no "expertise" other than the Asura ability, they could do some interesting builds based around that, potentially making them more formidable warriors and rangers than other races.

The idea is that each race could offer something unique and powerful in its own right, while attempting to remain balanced. GW does this already, except the Primary Attribute acts as this basic premise. The primary class you choose now determines your appearance (model and armors) as it would with races, and it determines what your specialty is with the primary attribute. With a race system, you simply remove the primary attribute from the class, and apply it to the race - the rest remains the same. I think it could work and wouldn't be too hard to balance; or at least not much harder than it is now.

If they were to introduce races to the GW1 game mechanics, it'll probably be an attribute line, which has a passive effect, like some primary attribute lines.

Also has a number of racial skills, and maybe a race faction, which gives it an effect like a Lightbringer.

(monks are overpowered, there ive said it)

Rather than the primary attribute being tied to class or race (if we are going to keep this in the traditional RPG style) would it not be better to simply link it to Fallout style "perks" and choose it at character development?

that way everyone wins.

Well, that would be ideal for character development, and probably how I'd do it if I were making an MMO from the ground up. But then I wouldn't introduce playable races that are drastically different, either. For a more realistic factor (let's face it, drastically different species will have drastically different natural abilities), and to keep a sense of balance with that realism, this might be a better way to do it.