Profession: Dervish/Ritualist
Name: Toshiro nuker? *shrug*
Type: PvE
Category: Tank/Nuker
Weapons: Suli's Scythe or similar (15^50, Zealous, Scythe +1 20%)
Armor: Survivor on all Sigs, Minor Scythe, Wind, and Myst, Minor Vitae, Sup Vigor
Attributes:
11 Channeling
11+1+1 Scythe Mastery
3+1 Wind Prayers
8+1 Mysticism
Skills Set
1: [wiki]Attacker's Insight[/wiki] (Wind Prayers) [next 2 attacks -9 energy]
2: [wiki]Chilling Victory[/wiki] (Scythe Mastery) [+18, 54 cold]
3: [wiki]Heart of Holy Flame[/wiki] (Mysticism) [42 holy, fire 3 secs]
4: [wiki]Farmer's Scythe[/wiki] (Scythe Mastery) [+18 dmg]
5: [wiki]Lyssa's Assault[/wiki] (Scythe Mastery) [+18 dmg, +11 energy]
6: [wiki]Avatar of Balthazar[/wiki] {Elite} (Mysticism) [58 secs]
7: [wiki]Eternal Aura[/wiki] (Sunspear) [88 holy]
8: [wiki]Ancestor's Rage[/wiki] (Channeling) [103 lightning]
Summary: This build was sort of a slow evolution based on my own needs from the traditional AoB build. At this point, the only skill still on the bar from that build is AoB.
Method of use: I will use numbers corresponding to the numbered list above, to save typing.
Prep: 6
Fight Entry: 1
Once in range, use 8 as often as the cooldown allows. 7 as soon as possible to reset 6, then while 7 and 1 are up, use 5 then 2 to restore energy. Then use 3, followed by 4. By then 7 will drop and reset 1-6, and you can again hit 1,5,2,3, then 4 (assuming grouped mobs), all the while hitting 8 for extra damage when its cooldown is up. With Zealous weap + using 1 to cast 5 free, you should almost never run out of energy (I've had whole groups constantly asking me to hold for energy sometimes because I forget and I was still ready to go), and the only thing that should slow you down is cooldowns and interrupts. Because you keep 3 up all the time by spamming it for damage, 5 will always give the energy gain, so even if you cannot get 1 for free use of 5, you can still gain energy from it.
Notes & Concerns:
The high health on this build combined with AoB makes it strong for tanking regardless of how useful the skills are given different fights, and AoE attacking of Dervishes help to pull things together for tanking and party AoE. Good for rushing into fights first to bundle. I've had times where I was tanking 10 things at once (2 bosses, 8 trash), and two healers have little problem keeping me up. This build also does impressive spike damage to crowds given the right situations, generating as much as 500+ damage to 3+ targets within the first volley of the skill combo. With a Zealous Scythe, it's no problem at all maintaining full 25 energy 90% of the time, especially with an enchantment healer (such as prot healers). I would imagine varying the scythe will have minimal impact.
Counters:
-Disenchants at the wrong moment (basically disenchanting 1 and 7 at the wrong time can slow you down, but hardly stops you)
-Interrupts (especially when using AoB again in a longer fight, or getting Eternal Aura up to reset AoB/etc)
-Blinds
Variants:
-Replace AoBalthazar with AoDwayna for extra tanking capacity, since Holy Flame adds holy damage anyways.
-Replace Lyssa's Assault with an enchant eater such as Twin Moon Sweep.
-Replace Farmer's Scythe with Mystic Sweep, Victorious Sweep, Zealous Sweep, or Ermite's Attack, depending on situation.
-Replace Ancestor's Rage with a Res for group assist, Wild Blow for stance breaking, or some other secondary profession skill for support.
-Replace Ancestor's Rage as stated and up Wind Prayers, then replace Heart of Holy Flame with Grenth's Fingers (gives cold damage, crippes, just a little variance for a little less damage).
Credit: Me as well as my guildie Xae, who helped me find certain skills such as Ancestor's Rage.
Thoughts on this build?
myukis
John Panda
[skill]Heart Of Fury[/skill]
[skill]Onslaught[/skill]
[skill]Onslaught[/skill]
myukis
That could also be a good variant, replace AoB with Onslaught, replace Ancestor's Rage with Heart of Fury. The only downsides are that you would lose the spike damage of Ancestor's Rage in certain situations as well as the armor from AoB. But upping wind would give you more attacks from Attacker's Insight, and the 33% attack might increase your overall damage in certain situations.
Oh and before this turns into a whole AoB is junk thread, understand that I'm talking in PvE only, and tanking is taken into account (which is acknowledged as the "only moderately useful thing" AoB has to offer by itself, the armor). Yeah, I could duplicate the rest of its ability (I already do duplicate the holy damage), but then I'd have to lose damage skills from swapping out buttons, and cast spells more often in combat to keep it up. But I'll acknowledge for the sake of avoiding the argument that there are downsides to just punking out and using AoB instead of trying to find a replacement.
And I suppose you could also replace AoB with AoMelandru for condition avoiding and extra hp for tanking, however the problem is that AoM costs 25 energy, which is the max pool with no morale boost in this build, meaning you'd use all your mana to cast it, and if you have penalty you can't cast it at all. This can be fixed by replacing some of those survivor insignias with radiants, or hp runes with attunement. Downside is you hurt your tanking capacity, and turn into a pure damager. Not tanking makes condition immunity a little less useful if you ask me.
Oh and before this turns into a whole AoB is junk thread, understand that I'm talking in PvE only, and tanking is taken into account (which is acknowledged as the "only moderately useful thing" AoB has to offer by itself, the armor). Yeah, I could duplicate the rest of its ability (I already do duplicate the holy damage), but then I'd have to lose damage skills from swapping out buttons, and cast spells more often in combat to keep it up. But I'll acknowledge for the sake of avoiding the argument that there are downsides to just punking out and using AoB instead of trying to find a replacement.
And I suppose you could also replace AoB with AoMelandru for condition avoiding and extra hp for tanking, however the problem is that AoM costs 25 energy, which is the max pool with no morale boost in this build, meaning you'd use all your mana to cast it, and if you have penalty you can't cast it at all. This can be fixed by replacing some of those survivor insignias with radiants, or hp runes with attunement. Downside is you hurt your tanking capacity, and turn into a pure damager. Not tanking makes condition immunity a little less useful if you ask me.
Marverick
Drop Channeling Magic, one or two hits from your Scythe will do as much damage as Ancestor's Rage without wasting attribute points. Have a Rit do the channeling.
Lack of [skill]Heart of Fury[/skill] in a damage build = failure.
Lack of [skill]Heart of Fury[/skill] in a damage build = failure.
jesh
Myukis.. you can easily swap to a +10-20 energy staff to cast Melandru.
I find Ancestor's Rage to be easily outshone by Splinter Weapon.
Try 15 Scythe, 10 Channeling and whatever's left in Mysticism, then use Splinter Weapon instead.
There's 3 reasons I take a Rt secondary. Death Pact Signet, Splinter Weapon, and that one skill that lets me get Razah really easy. The spirit replacer thingy.
Oh and Marverick is right.. IAS is mandatory in most damage builds.
I find Ancestor's Rage to be easily outshone by Splinter Weapon.
Try 15 Scythe, 10 Channeling and whatever's left in Mysticism, then use Splinter Weapon instead.
There's 3 reasons I take a Rt secondary. Death Pact Signet, Splinter Weapon, and that one skill that lets me get Razah really easy. The spirit replacer thingy.
Oh and Marverick is right.. IAS is mandatory in most damage builds.
Dean Harper
lose AoB, its worthless...
Str0b0
Drop Aob for AoL. Drop channeling and wind prayers for earth prayers. Pump earth to regain your tanking ability via earth prayers enchants. Lyssa can easily duplicate the damage output of Ancestors rage by the spikes. Energy will be buffed and your zealous scythe should keep you happy. Drop Heart of holy flame and replace it with Heart of fury, all the burning goodness with a 33% IAS boost which keeps the spikes coming from Lyssa at a faster rate. If you absolutely must have channeling then I would say use splinter weapon over ancestors rage.
myukis
Your suggestions remove holy damage completely from the build. It also completely nerfs the usefulness of Attacker's insight and its ability to give me big hitting melee attacks for free (one of which generates me mana). And the burning from Heart of Holy Flame, if this build is played right, never happens. You should spam HHF when its cooldown comes up to do the 42 holy damage, not wait for it to wear off for a couple seconds of burning. Admittedly the burning is a total of 42 damage, but so is the initial burst from HHF, and burning could be removed before it ends, or stacking with some other degen to where it is wasted degen. Also 42 every 15 seconds is better than 42 then 33 seconds later another 42. At best, it would be equal damage, so the only benefit is the lack of mana cost, which this build doesn't have a problem with.
Lyssa can also be done with this build for more damage in certain situations, you are correct on that one. However you lose the armor from AoB, and only gain energy you won't use.
Without losing much of the mana holding capacity of this build, you could swap AoB with either AoD (for healing/hex removal) or AoL (plus to damage on skill usage), and replace Ancestor's with Heart of Fury.
Additionally, if you're convinced that it's not worth using Rit for increased nuke, you could dump the channeling points into wind and get Mystic Twister for up to 3 targets of 100 cold damage. Personally any number is better than 3, and 3 more damage if nothing else, not to mention 66% of the cooldown and half the mana cost, meaning an overall 2x more damage per mana, and 1.5x more damage per time.
One final note... there's two reasons I keep all of the AoE nukes instead of going pure melee. Firstly, blinds nullify melee. I'd have to dump damage spells to give myself condition removal, or get Avatar of Melandru as suggested, which poses minor magic problems (tho admittedly not as bad as I expressed earlier, since I overlooked the +energy item possibility). Second reason though is that sometimes things just plain have high armor, spam block chance skills, or otherwise drag down melee damage in general. My response to that is keep flat nukes available as a backup.
Great suggestions coming in though, definitely giving me alot more variant ideas than I already had, and obviously alot of suggestions will come to replace AoB, and I welcome them.
Lyssa can also be done with this build for more damage in certain situations, you are correct on that one. However you lose the armor from AoB, and only gain energy you won't use.
Without losing much of the mana holding capacity of this build, you could swap AoB with either AoD (for healing/hex removal) or AoL (plus to damage on skill usage), and replace Ancestor's with Heart of Fury.
Additionally, if you're convinced that it's not worth using Rit for increased nuke, you could dump the channeling points into wind and get Mystic Twister for up to 3 targets of 100 cold damage. Personally any number is better than 3, and 3 more damage if nothing else, not to mention 66% of the cooldown and half the mana cost, meaning an overall 2x more damage per mana, and 1.5x more damage per time.
One final note... there's two reasons I keep all of the AoE nukes instead of going pure melee. Firstly, blinds nullify melee. I'd have to dump damage spells to give myself condition removal, or get Avatar of Melandru as suggested, which poses minor magic problems (tho admittedly not as bad as I expressed earlier, since I overlooked the +energy item possibility). Second reason though is that sometimes things just plain have high armor, spam block chance skills, or otherwise drag down melee damage in general. My response to that is keep flat nukes available as a backup.
Great suggestions coming in though, definitely giving me alot more variant ideas than I already had, and obviously alot of suggestions will come to replace AoB, and I welcome them.
myukis
Swapped AoB with AoL and Ancestor's Rage with Heart of Fury, then maxing Scythe/Mysticism. The result was the same and sometimes more overall damage, but I completely lost control of the fights, to where I was only tanking the one thing that was my current target, instead of most of the fight. After a while I finally engaged a larger group, and when I finally did get aggro I went down considerably easier... to where such a fight would normally be 50% or higher chance of me living through the beating to where I was almost guaranteed to go down.
But, altogether I'd say the damage was bumped up, provided I don't get blinds. Some of the fights seemed slower, but the ones that were faster were obviously faster. So definitely a build to consider when I don't have to tank. Thanks for the ideas, will keep testing the variants suggested.
But, altogether I'd say the damage was bumped up, provided I don't get blinds. Some of the fights seemed slower, but the ones that were faster were obviously faster. So definitely a build to consider when I don't have to tank. Thanks for the ideas, will keep testing the variants suggested.
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by myukis
Profession: Dervish/Ritualist
Name: Toshiro nuker? *shrug*
Type: PvE
Category: Tank/Nuker
Weapons: Suli's Scythe or similar (15^50, Zealous, Scythe +1 20%)
Armor: Survivor on all Sigs, Minor Scythe, Wind, and Myst, Minor Vitae, Sup Vigor
Attributes:
11 Channeling
11+1+1 Scythe Mastery
3+1 Wind Prayers
8+1 Mysticism
Skills Set
1: [wiki]Attacker's Insight[/wiki] (Wind Prayers) [next 2 attacks -9 energy]
2: [wiki]Chilling Victory[/wiki] (Scythe Mastery) [+18, 54 cold]
3: [wiki]Heart of Holy Flame[/wiki] (Mysticism) [42 holy, fire 3 secs]
4: [wiki]Farmer's Scythe[/wiki] (Scythe Mastery) [+18 dmg]
5: [wiki]Lyssa's Assault[/wiki] (Scythe Mastery) [+18 dmg, +11 energy]
6: [wiki]Avatar of Balthazar[/wiki] {Elite} (Mysticism) [58 secs]
7: [wiki]Eternal Aura[/wiki] (Sunspear) [88 holy]
8: [wiki]Ancestor's Rage[/wiki] (Channeling) [103 lightning]
Summary: This build was sort of a slow evolution based on my own needs from the traditional AoB build. At this point, the only skill still on the bar from that build is AoB.
Method of use: I will use numbers corresponding to the numbered list above, to save typing.
Prep: 6
Fight Entry: 1
Once in range, use 8 as often as the cooldown allows. 7 as soon as possible to reset 6, then while 7 and 1 are up, use 5 then 2 to restore energy. Then use 3, followed by 4. By then 7 will drop and reset 1-6, and you can again hit 1,5,2,3, then 4 (assuming grouped mobs), all the while hitting 8 for extra damage when its cooldown is up. With Zealous weap + using 1 to cast 5 free, you should almost never run out of energy (I've had whole groups constantly asking me to hold for energy sometimes because I forget and I was still ready to go), and the only thing that should slow you down is cooldowns and interrupts. Because you keep 3 up all the time by spamming it for damage, 5 will always give the energy gain, so even if you cannot get 1 for free use of 5, you can still gain energy from it.
Notes & Concerns:
The high health on this build combined with AoB makes it strong for tanking regardless of how useful the skills are given different fights, and AoE attacking of Dervishes help to pull things together for tanking and party AoE. Good for rushing into fights first to bundle. I've had times where I was tanking 10 things at once (2 bosses, 8 trash), and two healers have little problem keeping me up. This build also does impressive spike damage to crowds given the right situations, generating as much as 500+ damage to 3+ targets within the first volley of the skill combo. With a Zealous Scythe, it's no problem at all maintaining full 25 energy 90% of the time, especially with an enchantment healer (such as prot healers). I would imagine varying the scythe will have minimal impact.
Counters:
-Disenchants at the wrong moment (basically disenchanting 1 and 7 at the wrong time can slow you down, but hardly stops you)
-Interrupts (especially when using AoB again in a longer fight, or getting Eternal Aura up to reset AoB/etc)
-Blinds
Variants:
-Replace AoBalthazar with AoDwayna for extra tanking capacity, since Holy Flame adds holy damage anyways.
-Replace Lyssa's Assault with an enchant eater such as Twin Moon Sweep.
-Replace Farmer's Scythe with Mystic Sweep, Victorious Sweep, Zealous Sweep, or Ermite's Attack, depending on situation.
-Replace Ancestor's Rage with a Res for group assist, Wild Blow for stance breaking, or some other secondary profession skill for support.
-Replace Ancestor's Rage as stated and up Wind Prayers, then replace Heart of Holy Flame with Grenth's Fingers (gives cold damage, crippes, just a little variance for a little less damage).
Credit: Me as well as my guildie Xae, who helped me find certain skills such as Ancestor's Rage. A:nukers are actually fire eles with meteor shower
B:dervs are damage dealers not tanks
C:avatar of balthazar,lyssas assault and heart of holy flame?AoB sucks in general,but with heart of holy flame youve got holy dmg buffs twice...lyssas assault sucks in general
D:attackers insight sucks,dont touch it
E:enchants+20% for derv>scythe +1
Name: Toshiro nuker? *shrug*
Type: PvE
Category: Tank/Nuker
Weapons: Suli's Scythe or similar (15^50, Zealous, Scythe +1 20%)
Armor: Survivor on all Sigs, Minor Scythe, Wind, and Myst, Minor Vitae, Sup Vigor
Attributes:
11 Channeling
11+1+1 Scythe Mastery
3+1 Wind Prayers
8+1 Mysticism
Skills Set
1: [wiki]Attacker's Insight[/wiki] (Wind Prayers) [next 2 attacks -9 energy]
2: [wiki]Chilling Victory[/wiki] (Scythe Mastery) [+18, 54 cold]
3: [wiki]Heart of Holy Flame[/wiki] (Mysticism) [42 holy, fire 3 secs]
4: [wiki]Farmer's Scythe[/wiki] (Scythe Mastery) [+18 dmg]
5: [wiki]Lyssa's Assault[/wiki] (Scythe Mastery) [+18 dmg, +11 energy]
6: [wiki]Avatar of Balthazar[/wiki] {Elite} (Mysticism) [58 secs]
7: [wiki]Eternal Aura[/wiki] (Sunspear) [88 holy]
8: [wiki]Ancestor's Rage[/wiki] (Channeling) [103 lightning]
Summary: This build was sort of a slow evolution based on my own needs from the traditional AoB build. At this point, the only skill still on the bar from that build is AoB.
Method of use: I will use numbers corresponding to the numbered list above, to save typing.
Prep: 6
Fight Entry: 1
Once in range, use 8 as often as the cooldown allows. 7 as soon as possible to reset 6, then while 7 and 1 are up, use 5 then 2 to restore energy. Then use 3, followed by 4. By then 7 will drop and reset 1-6, and you can again hit 1,5,2,3, then 4 (assuming grouped mobs), all the while hitting 8 for extra damage when its cooldown is up. With Zealous weap + using 1 to cast 5 free, you should almost never run out of energy (I've had whole groups constantly asking me to hold for energy sometimes because I forget and I was still ready to go), and the only thing that should slow you down is cooldowns and interrupts. Because you keep 3 up all the time by spamming it for damage, 5 will always give the energy gain, so even if you cannot get 1 for free use of 5, you can still gain energy from it.
Notes & Concerns:
The high health on this build combined with AoB makes it strong for tanking regardless of how useful the skills are given different fights, and AoE attacking of Dervishes help to pull things together for tanking and party AoE. Good for rushing into fights first to bundle. I've had times where I was tanking 10 things at once (2 bosses, 8 trash), and two healers have little problem keeping me up. This build also does impressive spike damage to crowds given the right situations, generating as much as 500+ damage to 3+ targets within the first volley of the skill combo. With a Zealous Scythe, it's no problem at all maintaining full 25 energy 90% of the time, especially with an enchantment healer (such as prot healers). I would imagine varying the scythe will have minimal impact.
Counters:
-Disenchants at the wrong moment (basically disenchanting 1 and 7 at the wrong time can slow you down, but hardly stops you)
-Interrupts (especially when using AoB again in a longer fight, or getting Eternal Aura up to reset AoB/etc)
-Blinds
Variants:
-Replace AoBalthazar with AoDwayna for extra tanking capacity, since Holy Flame adds holy damage anyways.
-Replace Lyssa's Assault with an enchant eater such as Twin Moon Sweep.
-Replace Farmer's Scythe with Mystic Sweep, Victorious Sweep, Zealous Sweep, or Ermite's Attack, depending on situation.
-Replace Ancestor's Rage with a Res for group assist, Wild Blow for stance breaking, or some other secondary profession skill for support.
-Replace Ancestor's Rage as stated and up Wind Prayers, then replace Heart of Holy Flame with Grenth's Fingers (gives cold damage, crippes, just a little variance for a little less damage).
Credit: Me as well as my guildie Xae, who helped me find certain skills such as Ancestor's Rage. A:nukers are actually fire eles with meteor shower
B:dervs are damage dealers not tanks
C:avatar of balthazar,lyssas assault and heart of holy flame?AoB sucks in general,but with heart of holy flame youve got holy dmg buffs twice...lyssas assault sucks in general
D:attackers insight sucks,dont touch it
E:enchants+20% for derv>scythe +1
myukis
A: nuker, at least to the sense I've been led to believe with regards to GW, equates to DPS'er from other MMO's, as in anyone who does dps as their primary contribution
B: While warriors in general are better at tanking, they aren't the only ones capable of doing it.
C: Lyssa's generates mana and keeps it so I have enough to have ALL my skills on cooldown. HHF is to generate the 42 holy damage AoE, NOT for the holy damage buff. The only purpose it serves as an enchantment is so that something is up when I use Lyssa's for mana. And AoB, well we won't even get into that. It has its uses, and in general I understand that 95% of these boards think its total crap, purely because it's used so much.
D: Attacker's insight makes attacks free, which contributes to the overall generation of mana and the end result of having all skills on cooldown with plenty of mana available for when they come out.
E: If you followed the progression of the skills throughout the combo, you'd realize the only enchant that actually stays up intentionally is HHF, which as you said is worthless with AoB. I completely agree with you, and its only purpose to me is a nuke. That said, keeping it up longer is dumb, especially when I'm spamming it everytime the cooldown drops, which means I reapply it 15 seconds before its innate duration runs out. Attacker's and Ancestor's are both ate up quickly for their effects, and Eternal Aura you want to end quicker so you get the skill reset from it, so longer durations would be silly.
And this is how I reply to someone who doesn't pose a valid argument and just says everything sucks.
B: While warriors in general are better at tanking, they aren't the only ones capable of doing it.
C: Lyssa's generates mana and keeps it so I have enough to have ALL my skills on cooldown. HHF is to generate the 42 holy damage AoE, NOT for the holy damage buff. The only purpose it serves as an enchantment is so that something is up when I use Lyssa's for mana. And AoB, well we won't even get into that. It has its uses, and in general I understand that 95% of these boards think its total crap, purely because it's used so much.
D: Attacker's insight makes attacks free, which contributes to the overall generation of mana and the end result of having all skills on cooldown with plenty of mana available for when they come out.
E: If you followed the progression of the skills throughout the combo, you'd realize the only enchant that actually stays up intentionally is HHF, which as you said is worthless with AoB. I completely agree with you, and its only purpose to me is a nuke. That said, keeping it up longer is dumb, especially when I'm spamming it everytime the cooldown drops, which means I reapply it 15 seconds before its innate duration runs out. Attacker's and Ancestor's are both ate up quickly for their effects, and Eternal Aura you want to end quicker so you get the skill reset from it, so longer durations would be silly.
And this is how I reply to someone who doesn't pose a valid argument and just says everything sucks.
~ Dan ~
Quote:
Originally Posted by myukis
EDIT: also:
Quote: Originally Posted by myukis A: nuker, at least to the sense I've been led to believe with regards to GW, equates to DPS'er from other MMO's, as in anyone who does dps as their primary contributio A nuker in guildwars would be someone who "nukes" basically. Simple as. They lay down massive AoE damage to obliterate whoever is retarded enough to stand in it.. This is not a Dervish.
Quote: B: While warriors in general are better at tanking, they aren't the only ones capable of doing it. Although true, tanking is not needed in 95% of the game.
Quote:
Quote:
But there is no need. The whole point of Mysticism is your source of energy management by letting enchants end, rather than dedicate half your bar to it. If your not using it as your e-management, your doing something wrong.|
D: Attacker's insight makes attacks free, which contributes to the overall generation of mana and the end result of having all skills on cooldown with plenty of mana available for when they come out.
Seeing as you stated you don't let enchantments end, i'm not surprised you have energy management issues. If you are really want energy to spam attacks, use Zealous Vow. That skill is like the only good reason to invest in Wind Prayers. Quote:
Refer to it as Damage Dealer.
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And I'll concede that Zealous Vow is nice, but I'm getting use out of Attacker's Insight without investing a ton of points in wind (just the excess points actually), and it's an elite which means my only elite is just energy management. Using Zealous Vow in a different build that is based on wind may make more sense, but this build is something on its own.
Zealous Vow doesn't require much spec to get 3-4 energy return per hit. Hit 3 foes, thats 9-12 energy every 1.2 secs or so. Bingo! It's great for attack spamming builds, not just wind prayer based bars. Is it just me, or would an attack spamming build be labelled as "damage dealer"? Quote:
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