A New Account-based PvE Title System

I posted this in the middle of the large thread regarding making more (grind) titles account based, and thought it deserved its own thread (it is a suggestion), since I was one of the few who offered a reasonable suggestion in the entire thread other than, "make them all account based without requirements," and, "leave them alone." I also expanded on the description. One final note, at least one character will still have to grind these titles to max, I'm not suggesting they give them away to any and all new/old players.

Make the following titles account based:

• Drunkard
• Treasure Hunter
• Wisdom
• Sweet Tooth
• Sunspear
• Lightbringer
• Asura
• Deldrimor
• Ebon Vanguard
• Norn

The following titles will have no limitation on at any level and within any progress of a(n) campaign/expansion that each character will have access to:

• Drunkard
• Treasure Hunter
• Wisdom
• Sweet Tooth

For the remaining titles, (Sunspear, Lightbringer, Asura, Deldrimor, Ebon Vanguard, Norn) you have restricted access to them until you perform certain tasks involving character level and storyline advancement per-character.

Here is an example of the character level requirement restriction, regarding an account having Rank 10 in Sunspear:
Level 1-5: Sunspear Master Sergeant (2)
Level 6-10: First Spear (4)
Level 11-15: Sunspear Commander (6)
Level 16-19: Sunspear Castellan (8)
Level 20: Legendary Spearmarshal (10)

The storyline advancement requirement is a little more in-depth that the level requirement per character. The Sunspear Title is already linked to quest progression via the requirements to continue the story line. What I am suggesting for the other titles is something similar: giving access to a Title that has already been raised up on the account via quest completion per character. This will help keep the "lore" to the storyline; because as we can probably all agree on, a character who has never met the Norn should not instantly have Slayer of All (10) before they even visit Eye of the North, but a player who has already earned Slayer of All by repeating multiple quests multiple times shouldn't have to do this across 7 possible characters.

Here is an example of a storyline advancement requirement, regarding an account having Rank 10 in Asuran:
The Knowledgeable Asura: Not Too Dopey (2)
(Two of) Lab Space, Finding Gadd, and/or A Little Help: Not Too Boring (4)
Finding the Bloodstone and The Elusive Golemancer: Not Too Grumpy (6)
Genius Operated Living Enchanted Manifestation: Not Too Lazy (8)
A Time for Heroes (Completing the campaign/expansion): Not Too Shabby (10)

I find that requiring some sort of limitation to accessing the PvE Titles will quell some of the arguments opposing the expansion of Account-based titles, since it doesn't allow Level 1 characters to run around as a Holy Lightbringer (not that it mattered who has what title, but for the sake of argument). These Titles do not necessarily show skill, but mostly time/gold spent, which Guild Wars was advertised not to reward. I just want simpler access to bonuses these Titles offer across an account, when one of my characters has already earned/grind(ground?)/paid for them. And before stating an argument against this, remember, this isn't an argument on how many characters you should be playing. Players were given 8 slots, with options to buy more, what they do with them is their choice, players with only 1 PvE character are obviously not going to support this anyway, though. Also remember, you will still have to acquire these titles by completing quests, vanquishing zones, and turning in books.

Update: It has been suggested that maxing these titles will be "too easy" now that you have 2-8 characters contributing towards the title. I now offer another suggestion to counter this:
Make the Sunspear, Lightbringer, Asura, Deldrimor, Ebon Vanguard, and Norn titles scale to how many PvE characters you have. Heres some examples:
2 PvE characters: 1x higher cap (the same as the titles are now)
4 PvE characters: 1.5x higher cap
6 PvE characters: 2x higher cap
8 PvE characters: 2.5x higher cap
I don't want to encourage Areanet to make these Titles more of a grind than they already are, so I kept the multiples low. But if I had my 8 characters contributing towards these Titles, I personally wouldn't mind higher caps on them. The other 4 titles already have ridiculously high requirements to max, so I left them out. This would also reduce the "time lost" for players who had already maxed titles on more than one or two characters.

NOTE: I wouldn't have a problem with any of these titles if they didn't have drastic effects on PvE skills and lockpicks. This isn't about unlocking Armor crafters. The fact that I am forced to grind for hours on end to have each of my 8 characters be the best possible is the reason I quit FFXI, and I never expected it from Guild Wars. When I first started Prophecies with my Warrior, Monk, Elementalist, and Necromancer, I expected once I hit max level, bought my 1.5k armor, and got a collectors weapon for my characters, everything past that would be purely vanity alone, and my characters would be based on my skill, not the hours I am able to dedicate to repeating my actions hundredfold.

And I ask mods to not close/combine this with the "Make all grind-based titles account based" thread. These are two different suggestions to the same problem.

I like it, makes sense and shows big "GTFO" to people who say that lvl 5 warrior with holy lightbringer doesn't make sense and yet lvl 5 warrior savior of the Kurzicks makes sense

So... /signed

/signed

definitelly for the Treasure Hunter & Wisdom titles - would save me at least some reloggig just to ID gold loots...

/signed
nice idea linking them to quests/lvls

/unsigned... stop making game easier as it already is.

making the game easier? lol wut?

anyway, /signed

Mirko what he's suggesting doesn't necessarily make it easier. Ok, so people don't have to grind to R whatever Asura/Dwarf/Norn etc, that's a good thing. The idea he has for implementing it is good and balanced

And then the titles he has suggested not putting any limits on also make sense. Having wisdom and treasure hunter as single character only never made any sense to me when it affects salvage chance. It leaves the option of either id'ing, chest opening and salvaging on only one character, and getting a lot better, or just spreading it out as you play and having reduced chances of successful chest openings. I know I'd rather ALL of my characters had a good chance, as with the things combined, rather than the reduced chances I have currently available.

The title system as it is does seem to penalise those who chose to make and work on multiple characters, despite the fact that we're encouraged to do so by getting character slots with the campaigns and the ability to buy char slots. This is a fair way to provide access to the titles to everyone, and a more beneficial way to level them up

Fine with me.

/signed to this more detailed idea

Nice work, CHunterX

Not necessarily easier, just less consumed with repeating grind.
EDIT: Redirected quote.

/not signed

Gaile said that titles was in the game, because people "ASKED" it, and now, everyone wants to make it easier.
Guildwars was made to play campaign, then leave the game, wait until next campaign, come back game.
But people whined they want more in the game, so Anet gave it to them, and now, there are whines all over again.

So make a choice, and not first the one thing and then the other thing. Why do you think there werent any titles in the first game?

My opinion is, let the titles stay, or remove them completely!
But stop whining wth "I want not do anything for a title"

>.<

/signed
probably, it will make game much easier, but like the idea.

I tried to improve on the "much easier" argument with an update in the original post.
Did you even read the original post?

Replace "easier" with "less grindy and boring" and you might be on something there.

YEah i read the original and that was even worse than this one

But stil, delete all titles or keep them as they are now =/

Then dont do titles? No-one force you to get the titles you know, its what the people want, if Anet modify titles NOW, you will get alot of fight, then 1/2 of the people leave GuildWars for good.
Because they have like 2/3/4 character with all the grind titles, and they need money slinks and grind titles are money slinks xD

Like:
Drunkard
Treasure Hunter
Wisdom
Sweet Tooth

These titles are the biggest money slinks ingame, so why would Anet make them Account bassed? The more of them you want on different charater, how less money you have.


Lightbringer/Sunspears etc aren't that hard to get ... (and yes i know what i'm saying)

And personaly i like grinding <33 (yes i have a life and i play 1 à 2 hours a day)

Very good compromise to the either or squabble presently going on elsewhere.

Signed in triplicate

# Drunkard
# Treasure Hunter
# Wisdom
# Sweet Tooth

Agreed for those. The others not so sure. /signed

No one forces you to do the extra-attribute quests either, but if you don't, your character is weaker than everyone else that has done them, regardless of your playing skill. There is little difference in having a max PvE title and doing the attribute quests, besides the massive amount of time the former takes. Without them, your character will be weaker than everyone else, regardless of your playing skill. When it comes down to it, if you had two players equally skilled at playing a Mesmer, both had all skills unlocked, but one had Rank 5 and the other Rank 10 in Asuran, and you required Pain Inverter, you are going to chose the latter simply because they grind more, not that they are better. Is it the Rank 5's fault that they can't dedicate a hours to max these titles by doing repetitive actions?
With the updated original post, you'd see that having 2/3/4/8 characters with the grind titles would have their points combined, and a new cap for the Titles. Virtually no one outside of the players who have maxed Drunkard and Sweet-tooth on two characters will be losing any time spent, besides possibly the odd number'd players (3,5,7), since the cap raises only every 2 PvE characters. Again, I must suggest you read the original post again
Guild Wars wasn't advertised as a grind game. If you like grinding for max stats, there was much better games to chose from, but now that Areanet has flip-flopped on their view of the game, I can't say that is true anymore.

In response to this:
I post my idea from the "other" thread
which also got ignored and merged due to unoriginality =P

Which is why I would suggest my thread not get merged, and instead, the other thread closed. The other thread is out of control as it is, suggestions are becoming lost and ignored in the pages of the flames going back and forth between a few, myself included. People who have honest suggestions like you and I should be able to express them outside of a 14-page flamefest. I'm not saying that I've been warned my thread would become merged, but I could see a mod quickly skimming this thread and tossing it into the other thread.

/signed.

I really don't like getting a gold drop and not being able to ID it for missing another ID for the wisdom title. likewise, I don't like seeing the treasure hunter title only being applicable to one character.

note: Wisdom title is not a gold sink as you can't buy golds from traders. it only moves money between players, not sinking it.

having the treasure hunter title account based would most likely sink more gold in lockpicks for the casual player as people would be more inclined to buy them for any character they are playing and not just the one. I know when I'm playing any character other than my main I think twice before buying a lockpick.

I agree that confining titles to one character is passively forcing people to play just one or two characters instead of enjoying all professions to their fullest.

I would also support the option of an endgame NPC for each campaign to be able to purchase the knowledge (max titles) of another one of your characters, ie. making max titles an unlock of the title at the NPC. paying an endgame NPC 5k to be able to view a map (max cartography title) for example makes sense. In the same style, an elite skills NPC upon completing the skill hunter title could sell elite skills for 5k to your other characters.

anyways, I'm going offtopic. yeah, account based titles. I want

well what do you think of the idea??? good bad??, lol cos if you think its reasonable put it in the opening ^^, cos you know what happens to those ideas that get left behind....

The idea is sort of their with the update in the OP, but with my idea, its not an option you can go and chose. An option idea would be nice, but players would just switch on the 4x while grinding one character, then when they were done, expand it back to the account based system, after getting the 4x bonus. That is, if I am reading your suggestion right. If the other thread gets closed, try making your own thread explaining the idea in detail, so it won't get merged again.

signed, a good idea, more is not to say about it

/not signed for laziness. grind it like you say

The Guild Wars community is constantly changing with new players joining and old players leaving, you cant tell people to stop changing their minds when a lot of the people that want this didnt have any part in getting title into the game in the first place and im sure a lot of the players that made the titles happen are long gone by now.

As for my opinion, I have no problem with the way the titles are now but maybe a couple new account based titles wouldnt hurt just to ease the grind for those that have managed to do what most only do on one account.

/signed, sick of stashing unid gold/keys when i play another char

the idea is to "play the game" and each time i see a chest, i "cant open it with that char" ^^ So it's forcing people to chestrun

And here is my post from that other thread:

funny how we are saying almost the exact same thing, and my post says more than just "make them all account based without requirements," or, "leave them alone."

Not really, my response in this thread would be the same thing as in the other thread, which is why i just copied it over. It's the same topic as the other thread, just a few different suggestions to the "system" to handle it. But overall this thread should be in that one as each post should give different suggestions or simply agree or disagree.

/signed

Very good suggestion. GW is rewarding and almost forcing you to play one char only because of the many benefits given by many and high title tracks on the same char, which is a step backward.

The suggestion needs some more things that need to be taken in regard: Will low level chars be able to contribute points to sunspear title if you are already rank 8 and would have to do hard mode to get further points e.g.?


It is probably too late for GW1, but I have a suggestion for GW2, too:
Remove titles based on stupid consumption or activities like
... the luck title, mainly gained through afk standing in rings, but having effect on your lockpicks and thus gameplay.
... drunkard and sweet tooth. Seriously, find better ways to make money sinks than such primitive ones. Or should I play the concerned parent card and write NCSoft that ANet promotes drinking...^^
... and make all titles where it is possible account based. For some it is hardly possible or just impossible, like cartographer, but for most it is.



chunterx's suggestion makes perfect sense for the "Wisdom" and "Treasure Hunter" title track. You know, you find a gold, put it in storage, log to your treasure hunter char, identify, salvage, sell, log back to your other char ... all that crap would not be necessary anymore.

Lets take two tasks. One is repeating task x 100 times. The other is repeating task x 100'000'000 times. Yes the second one will take a lot longer than the first, but because they are using the same base task the only difference in difficulty is that in the second one its much harder to keep border at bay.

So don't confuse difficulty with the time required.

Did we say we wanted character based grinding titles ?

The please explain how the Lucky/Unlucky titles being account based makes any sense. Or are you just saying that ANET should be lazy ?

Yes, ideas other than my basic one should probably be separated out into other threads to prevent them becoming lost.

Currently the other thread has settled down to just a few people being active, with the odd person coming in to bring up a point that has already been mentioned. So I'd prefer both threads were kept separate and open.

How does having to repeat an identical task several times for a stat boost make any sense gameplay wise ?

And is my response to your post. A response which you haven't answered.

As for my thoughts on this:
- The variable cap and effect limiter could prove too difficult for ANET to implement. However that isn't my call to make.
- I can expect people to complain about the cap jumping up when they create a new character and their existing ones have a lower rank than previously. You will also be discouraging people from making characters just to get mini-pets. Personally I don't care about this point beyond making you aware of it.
- Due to the variable break-points the server will have to keep track of the number way above the max level, otherwise deleting a character to remake it might lose you points in the track. Unless ANET is using a weird format for the numbers, this won't be an issue.

/signed

signed Make all titles account based.

You still have to do the work to get the title. What does it really matter if it is on one character or another. It was done on the account by ONE PERSON.

Agreed only for Drunkard, Treasure Hunter, Wisdom and Sweet tooth.

Thinking about others, will add more input later.

bilateralrope:

If you want it, work for it, so I've been told now this is my answers, work for it.

Work... in a computer game that's supposed be fun.
Nice going.

Why don't you tell that to the people who told me that I am being lazy for not being able to uncover 1.7% of my map to gain the Granmaster Carthography title.

that was some months ago, i have 1.7% uncovered territory, now I still have 1.3% uncovered, I work at it everyday.

So, basically, when I ask for help its laziness, when someone else come up with idea when they have all the title for one character, now they want to apply that to the rest of their characters, ya-right.

yah, don't ask me to use texmod READ THE USER'S AGREEMENT. NO REVERSE ENGINEERING OF PROGRAM.

Not a bad way of implementing the account based title system, but for coding purposes it'd probably be easier just to have everything kick in at level 20 - it's not like the title really matters that badly for <20 (except for the Sunspear rank requirements for quests, but that's rather minor)

Only problem is:

I have a whole bunch of pve characters. I only play one of them (used to be more but now there's too many campaigns and too much faction grind per character to upkeep them all) and use the others as mules.

This would be unfair to those who use characters as mules..

TBH, I think you should just have the same faction values as before, only make one time faction bonuses one time per account rather than per character.

/Definately signed.

This suggestion sums up everything I have ever thought about the titles. People should have to do some work for them, otherwise there's no point. But, it makes little sense to make people do it eight times when the games original purpose was vehemently against the time/skill concept.

And by the way; I never asked for titles, I never saw anyone asking for them, and I certainly didn't have any say in their implementation.

Account based titles are the more intelligent way to go. Only if anet did it from the beging it would have been fine. I guess they didn't for see title grinding for a year per character then adding in 4 new proffession making it like 10 years of work...
Now titles only bother me becuase they actually made them useful, lucky, treasure, wisdom etc. You have a character with high titles but now your doing your other 8 characters through campaigns only to not get any benefit from the titles you earned sux.

/signed for anet to rework titles into an account based system of sorts.

I hope you are trolling.

Well, I was just going on what opponents of the unlock-all for account-based were rambling about. I'm fine with level 1's running around with Holy Lightbringer, because it doesn't really matter what title they have in my opinion, because I don't see them as displaying skill. Others apparently do see it as skill, and it would be a problem for them, so I offered a simple solution.
Well, if you never plan on playing your mules again, throwing their gear into the remaining spots of your characters and then shifting the items onto PvP-character mules could be an option. But if, as you say, the reason you don't play those mule characters anymore is in-fact "faction grind per character" being difficult to upkeep, then this solution on the whole may make you able to play those characters again, resulting in this not actually being a problem for you.
Also, completing EN or NF again on two more times on two different characters would probably be enough for you to counter the multiples. But if you can find a better way to make the titles "less easy" to max, without adding heavy grinding, feel free to make a suggestion in this thread, or even make another thread. Areanet needs to hear more voices on this issue, but I stand firm on my suggestion at the moment.

Edited by Celestial Beaver: Posts Merged. Please use the Edit button instead of Double Posting.

/notsigned for continuity.

I hate grind, but if you take into account the actual function of these titles...to show how much stuff that character has done. One character eats alot of sweets...how does that make another character a sweettooth? Same with drunkard. if one character does all this stuff...that makes THAT CHARACTER good at doing that thing...such as wisdom and treasure hunter.

If one character goes out and kills millions of beasties for ss/lb/GWEN rep points, why should some nub character from Shing Jea or Pre-searing have that same reputation right off the bat? The Norn have never heard of Pre-Sear Pete or Shing Jea Sally...why should they have rep?

/yawn
If my Ele nuker pwnz ab and gets 56746784647456568468 and 1337 faction why should my lvl 1 assa get the title that my Ele got?
You think someone from Zu Heltzer has heard about him?
Lulz