Any Help would be greatly appreciated,
tinncann1
Help with mobeius build =/
Tinncann1
Hello ppl, ive been tryin to figure out a good spikin build which uses mobeius strike =/, and the best I could come up with is the Leaping Mantis ---- Exhausting ---- Impale ---- death blossom ---- mobeius combo, which is not really all that gr8. so could someone plz help me figure out a good mobeius build?? I have only factions and proph.
Any Help would be greatly appreciated,
tinncann1
Any Help would be greatly appreciated,
tinncann1
Stormlord Alex
Moebius isn't for spiking - there's your problem right there.
It's for keeping up pressure on a target by looping MS/DB for high, armour-ignoring damage.
If you wanna spike, Factions-only, then Aura of Displacement is a stronger bet.
AoD --> Golden Pheonix Strike --> Horns of the Ox --> Falling spider --> Twisting Fangs or somesuch is more spikey.
It's for keeping up pressure on a target by looping MS/DB for high, armour-ignoring damage.
If you wanna spike, Factions-only, then Aura of Displacement is a stronger bet.
AoD --> Golden Pheonix Strike --> Horns of the Ox --> Falling spider --> Twisting Fangs or somesuch is more spikey.
azizul1975
[skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill][skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Horns of the Ox[/skill][skill]Falling spider[/skill][skill]Twisting Fangs[/skill]
...for more clear picture on what he said
...for more clear picture on what he said
azizul1975
but i used this on zenmai
[skill]Sharpen Daggers[/skill][skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Critical Strike[/skill]
[skill]Sharpen Daggers[/skill][skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Critical Strike[/skill]
Tinncann1
Umm, I always thought mobeius was one of the spikin skills, , I guess I was wrong =/., o well, I still love mobeius, I think it is one of the coolest skills
, I guess I was wrong =/., o well, I still love mobeius, I think it is one of the coolest skills
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinncann1
I still love mobeius, I think it is one of the coolest skills
It is. For general PvE, it's a very strong skill as well (I'd go so far as to say even the strongest elite), allowing a 'sin to do constant, high DPS, with armour-ignoring AoE splash.
Far better than some of the trash you could bring... *cough flashing blades cough*
It is. For general PvE, it's a very strong skill as well (I'd go so far as to say even the strongest elite), allowing a 'sin to do constant, high DPS, with armour-ignoring AoE splash.Far better than some of the trash you could bring... *cough flashing blades cough*
Tinncann1
Umm so, back to the mobeius, wat lead would u recommend or no lead at all? im seriously getting tired of leapin mantis..
Ace2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
It is. For general PvE, it's a very strong skill as well (I'd go so far as to say even the strongest elite), allowing a 'sin to do constant, high DPS, with armour-ignoring AoE splash.
Far better than some of the trash you could bring... *cough flashing blades cough* The way you say that makes it sound like you're talking about Mobeius..but I assume you mean Death Blossom? (What kind of damage is it that's armor ignoring? it doesn't specificaly say on the skill what the damage type is, just that it does added damage)
Far better than some of the trash you could bring... *cough flashing blades cough* The way you say that makes it sound like you're talking about Mobeius..but I assume you mean Death Blossom? (What kind of damage is it that's armor ignoring? it doesn't specificaly say on the skill what the damage type is, just that it does added damage)
Paddatoochie
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinncann1
Umm so, back to the mobeius, wat lead would u recommend or no lead at all? im seriously getting tired of leapin mantis..
You could use the other interupting lead attack that has 5 cost and 10 recharge, disrupting stab or something.
Stormlord Alex
Leaping Mantis is decent enough, actually, it actually does summat (Cripple iz gud).
natural sugar
[skill]Unsuspecting Strike[/skill]
is what I use as my lead.
is what I use as my lead.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace2001
The way you say that makes it sound like you're talking about Mobeius..but I assume you mean Death Blossom? (What kind of damage is it that's armor ignoring? it doesn't specificaly say on the skill what the damage type is, just that it does added damage)
Well, I'm on about Moebius/Blossom looping as a whole, which is... kinda the point of the build 
And... armour ignoring - the +dmg from attack skills ignores armour, as well as the area effect damage from Blossom.
And... armour ignoring - the +dmg from attack skills ignores armour, as well as the area effect damage from Blossom.
Dean Harper
If you take this build:
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/...Blossom_Farmer
you dont need a lead
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:A/...Blossom_Farmer
you dont need a lead
Bobby2
Run Horns of the Ox as well for 'infinite' Knockdown spam which goes a long way in PvP. Doesn't make much sense in PvE though, as the enemy clutter together so often. On top of that several monsters cannot be KD'd.
Proph has [skill]Flurry[/skill]. You have no NF, so no Critical Agility for you. Flurry makes for a faster kill, if nothing else.
Proph has [skill]Flurry[/skill]. You have no NF, so no Critical Agility for you. Flurry makes for a faster kill, if nothing else.
Jaigoda
Flurry is absolutely pointless, unless you have a damage buff like Conjure [element] or Order of the Vampire. You do 4 attacks in one loop with a 33% IAS; Moebius, 2 hits from DBlossom, and an autoattack. Each attack is reduced by 25%, which means that's 4 times 25%, or 100%. without the IAS, you're doing 3 attacks of 100%. So basically, you're doing 0 more damage than you would without it.
Sqube
If you're confident (and I mean really confident) in the healers that you have, you can use Moebius to give you access to a bunch of different dual attacks.
So your bar would look something like the below (assuming PvE, of course):
1. Critical Agility
2. Golden Phoenix Strike
3. Moebius Strike {E}
4. Dual
5. Dual
6. Dual
7. Dual
8. Rez
I don't really see what kind of situation exists where you would be alive and/or in a position to rez, but I feel so weird not having one on the bar that I had to put it there.
Again, if you really, really trust your healers, you can run a build like that which has all kinds of stuff. Critical Strike for energy, Death Blossom for pressure, Nine Tail Strike, Horns of the Ox to loop knockdowns, Twisting Fangs for the deep wound.
I've run that build with healers I trusted. It was fun. Obviously, getting Moebius diverted will ruin your day, but just about any build involving Moebius can be harmed by diverting it.
I'm sure a bunch of people are going to come along and tell me I'm an idiot for suggesting this, but it's fun to play.
Jaigoda: Flurry isn't pointless because the 25% reduction in damage only applies to base damage. That means that, assuming you got a crit, which does 20 damage against 60AL if memory serves, you would lose... 4 damage. However, as I'm sure you know, we do our wrecking from the +damage in our skills. While you might argue that there are better alternatives, I hardly think Flurry is pointless. Also, seriously: there's a world beyond MS-DB spam. You might not believe it, but it's true.
So your bar would look something like the below (assuming PvE, of course):
1. Critical Agility
2. Golden Phoenix Strike
3. Moebius Strike {E}
4. Dual
5. Dual
6. Dual
7. Dual
8. Rez
I don't really see what kind of situation exists where you would be alive and/or in a position to rez, but I feel so weird not having one on the bar that I had to put it there.
Again, if you really, really trust your healers, you can run a build like that which has all kinds of stuff. Critical Strike for energy, Death Blossom for pressure, Nine Tail Strike, Horns of the Ox to loop knockdowns, Twisting Fangs for the deep wound.
I've run that build with healers I trusted. It was fun. Obviously, getting Moebius diverted will ruin your day, but just about any build involving Moebius can be harmed by diverting it.
I'm sure a bunch of people are going to come along and tell me I'm an idiot for suggesting this, but it's fun to play.
Jaigoda: Flurry isn't pointless because the 25% reduction in damage only applies to base damage. That means that, assuming you got a crit, which does 20 damage against 60AL if memory serves, you would lose... 4 damage. However, as I'm sure you know, we do our wrecking from the +damage in our skills. While you might argue that there are better alternatives, I hardly think Flurry is pointless. Also, seriously: there's a world beyond MS-DB spam. You might not believe it, but it's true.
Yanman.be
Jaigoda, your IAS rant is really pointless.
Utaku
For PvE, often Golden Phenix's or leap mantis 8s recharge is too long when you're going from target to target. Moebius can recharge it, but it's conditional and pve target die so fast that sometimes you can't hit them with moebius at the right time.
I like this chain in PvE, because it's fast reloading and has some utility (breaking stances, which is nice on kournan territory)
[skill]golden fox strike[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]moebius strike[/skill] + critical agility
Edit: you don't have nightfall, so maybe [skill]jagged strike[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]moebius strike[/skill][skill]flurry[/skill]
I like this chain in PvE, because it's fast reloading and has some utility (breaking stances, which is nice on kournan territory)
[skill]golden fox strike[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]moebius strike[/skill] + critical agility
Edit: you don't have nightfall, so maybe [skill]jagged strike[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]moebius strike[/skill][skill]flurry[/skill]
BlackSephir
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaigoda
Flurry is absolutely pointless, unless you have a damage buff like Conjure [element] or Order of the Vampire. You do 4 attacks in one loop with a 33% IAS; Moebius, 2 hits from DBlossom, and an autoattack. Each attack is reduced by 25%, which means that's 4 times 25%, or 100%. without the IAS, you're doing 3 attacks of 100%. So basically, you're doing 0 more damage than you would without it.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Flurry
Flurry only reduces base attack damage, not skill bonus damage.
Flurry only reduces base attack damage, not skill bonus damage.
SotiCoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utaku
For PvE, often Golden Phenix's or leap mantis 8s recharge is too long when you're going from target to target....
...I like this chain in PvE, because it's fast reloading So you exchange Golden Phoenix Strike with 8s Recharge... for Golden Fox Strike with 8s Recharge... and comment on one being too long to recharge and the other being fast recharge?
Funny.
While the unblockable stance removal is very nice... some people like to use that extra skill slot for something more practical (or in my case: Dash, to compensate for lack of snare) and get to the Moebius faster at the same time.
After a while you begin to realise something:
If the enemy is super-squishy, go GPS > Critical > Moebius > DB.
If the enemy is tougher, go GPS > DB > Moebius > Critical.
The key is to have the enemy under 50% health but still alive when Moebius hits, and is quite achievable when you're used to it.
...I like this chain in PvE, because it's fast reloading So you exchange Golden Phoenix Strike with 8s Recharge... for Golden Fox Strike with 8s Recharge... and comment on one being too long to recharge and the other being fast recharge?
Funny.
While the unblockable stance removal is very nice... some people like to use that extra skill slot for something more practical (or in my case: Dash, to compensate for lack of snare) and get to the Moebius faster at the same time.
After a while you begin to realise something:
If the enemy is super-squishy, go GPS > Critical > Moebius > DB.
If the enemy is tougher, go GPS > DB > Moebius > Critical.
The key is to have the enemy under 50% health but still alive when Moebius hits, and is quite achievable when you're used to it.
BlackSephir
Golden Fox is 4s
SotiCoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSephir
Golden Fox is 4s
.... Ok.
I never use it and was reading off the icon.
My mistake.
But still.... is GPS that much slower than using Lead > Offhand... and worth taking up a skill slot that could be used for something else?
I never use it and was reading off the icon.
My mistake.
But still.... is GPS that much slower than using Lead > Offhand... and worth taking up a skill slot that could be used for something else?
Utaku
Well, it makes me cry inside to use auto attacks when my chain is recharging... And using 4 slots for attacks leaves enough room for the rest.
SotiCoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utaku
Well, it makes me cry inside to use auto attacks when my chain is recharging... And using 4 slots for attacks leaves enough room for the rest.
It makes me cry inside when my character gets wailed on due to not having 75% block chance or nice health-chunkies with every Critical. Also makes me cry inside when Critical Agility gets stripped due to not having a cover enchantment..... and trust me... Critical Defenses is the ONLY thing that can cover Critical Agility.
To each their own I suppose.
To each their own I suppose.
Utaku
Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
It makes me cry inside when my character gets wailed on due to not having 75% block chance or nice health-chunkies with every Critical. Also makes me cry inside when Critical Agility gets stripped due to not having a cover enchantment..... and trust me... Critical Defenses is the ONLY thing that can cover Critical Agility.
To each their own I suppose. [skill]golden fox strike[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]moebius strike[/skill][skill]critical defenses[/skill][skill]way of perfection[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill][skill]critical agility[/skill]
Your precious enchantments aren't incompatible with this pve chain, right?
But you're right, to each their own, I never use crit def or WoP on my sin.
To each their own I suppose. [skill]golden fox strike[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]moebius strike[/skill][skill]critical defenses[/skill][skill]way of perfection[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill][skill]critical agility[/skill]
Your precious enchantments aren't incompatible with this pve chain, right?
But you're right, to each their own, I never use crit def or WoP on my sin.
SotiCoto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utaku
Your precious enchantments aren't incompatible with this pve chain, right?
But you're right, to each their own, I never use crit def or WoP on my sin. No Dash?
No Critical Strike?
I could understand occasionally taking out the latter (though I'd have more difficulty maintaining Critical Agility while rampaging), but never the former.
The very notion of going anywhere without a movement speed boost is anathema to me.
[And the number of skills I'd sooner take than Res Sig are in double-figures at least, including just about every Hard Res in the game (e.g. Death Pact Signet)].
But you're right, to each their own, I never use crit def or WoP on my sin. No Dash?
No Critical Strike?
I could understand occasionally taking out the latter (though I'd have more difficulty maintaining Critical Agility while rampaging), but never the former.
The very notion of going anywhere without a movement speed boost is anathema to me.
[And the number of skills I'd sooner take than Res Sig are in double-figures at least, including just about every Hard Res in the game (e.g. Death Pact Signet)].
Stormlord Alex
Edit.... nevermind, head's not working
Jaigoda
To you people saying my rant was pointless, I never once said it applied to +damage. I know that it only applies to base damage, and that's what I'm getting at. With a 33% IAS, you do 4 regular dagger attacks per MBlossom loop (3 of those also have +damage, but that's irrelevent to Flurry and my point), MS, DB (x2), and an autoattack. this means that you're doing 4 attacks at 75% damage, which totals to 3 attacks at 100% damage. Without an IAS, you do 3 attacks at 100% damage. Do you understand? Or am I going to have to make 5 more posts rewording my original point like I'm doing in that other thread?
Sqube
How, exactly, did you come to the conclusion that 4 attacks at 75% damage is equivalent to 3 attacks at 100% damage? You're not taking into account the likelihood of criticals and the fact that you don't do the exact same amount of damage every time. Like I said, the most damage you could lose on a given attack is 4 (assuming a crit that gives 20 damage).
Also, since Flurry's damage loss only applies to base damage, your attacks are not hitting at 75%. Let's go with Moebius Death Blossom and assume that you're hitting for 7 damage with your dagger attacks. Also, let's go with 12 DM and 13 CS; you might not agree with those numbers, but they work for the sake of maintaining consistency.
Flurry, 7 dagger damage:
MS + DB = 125.75
No Flurry, 7 dagger damage:
MS + DB = 131
That is a difference of ~4%, or 5.25 damage.
Flurry, 20 dagger damage:
MS + DB = 155
No Flurry, 20 dagger damage:
MS + DB = 170
That is a difference of ~8.9%, or 15 damage.
Now consider that, due to your increased attack speed, you're going to get a free auto-attack in there in the same amount of time that it would take you to loop. If my auto-attack is a crit, I win. Even if it's not a critical, it's an extra attack. If I'm using vamp daggers, that's more health for me and more damage for my foe. If I'm using zealous daggers, that means I get more energy.
Of course, the difference is even more extreme when you start considering that maybe I'm running the typical BLS-TF-BSS-BoS spike. The 33% increased attack speed gives you a lot less time to get protected, kite, etc.
I'm going to be blunt: I don't think you're understanding IAS as well as you think you are. You have interesting theories, but I would strongly recmomend that you take them to the Isle of the Nameless, test them out on the various AL dummies, the Master of Damage, and see what kind of conclusions you come up with.
Also, since Flurry's damage loss only applies to base damage, your attacks are not hitting at 75%. Let's go with Moebius Death Blossom and assume that you're hitting for 7 damage with your dagger attacks. Also, let's go with 12 DM and 13 CS; you might not agree with those numbers, but they work for the sake of maintaining consistency.
Flurry, 7 dagger damage:
MS + DB = 125.75
No Flurry, 7 dagger damage:
MS + DB = 131
That is a difference of ~4%, or 5.25 damage.
Flurry, 20 dagger damage:
MS + DB = 155
No Flurry, 20 dagger damage:
MS + DB = 170
That is a difference of ~8.9%, or 15 damage.
Now consider that, due to your increased attack speed, you're going to get a free auto-attack in there in the same amount of time that it would take you to loop. If my auto-attack is a crit, I win. Even if it's not a critical, it's an extra attack. If I'm using vamp daggers, that's more health for me and more damage for my foe. If I'm using zealous daggers, that means I get more energy.
Of course, the difference is even more extreme when you start considering that maybe I'm running the typical BLS-TF-BSS-BoS spike. The 33% increased attack speed gives you a lot less time to get protected, kite, etc.
I'm going to be blunt: I don't think you're understanding IAS as well as you think you are. You have interesting theories, but I would strongly recmomend that you take them to the Isle of the Nameless, test them out on the various AL dummies, the Master of Damage, and see what kind of conclusions you come up with.
Jaigoda
Right, forgot to put in vamp, 15^50, crits, etc... But still, I'm talking about PvE, where O-D-O-D combos are pretty weak, unless used with AP. Also, if you were to bring something like, say, Signet of Toxic Shock (or any damaging non-attack skill) instead of Flurry, you'd come out with a lot more damage. If it actually shortened the amount of time it too to do a MS-DB loop, I might actually recommend it, but the fact is, it does pretty much nothing to increasing the rate of which you pump out DB. Of course, I'm talking about a PvE MBlossom 'sin, PvP's a whole different story, as since 'sins are more spike based, and the reduced time helps get it in faster. But for PvE, MBlossom (and AP and maybe Crit Axe/Scythe) is pretty much the only truly viable build to run.
Sqube
But now, Jaigoda, you're changing the premise. You just said that Flurry was worthless on its own. You didn't say it was worthless because you could bring other skills. Now we're starting to enter the realm of opinion and personal preference, the calculations become more long-term and probably more complicated than I'm willing to invest time into. If you're talking about taking an alternative skill, it's a whole new discussion.
And MBlossom is hardly the only viable PvE build. It's a solid default when you don't know/trust the capabilities of your team members, but if you're confident in your teammates, you can run anything.
I've run Critical Agility, GPS, Moebius, 4 duals, and a rez. And nobody died. There are options.
And MBlossom is hardly the only viable PvE build. It's a solid default when you don't know/trust the capabilities of your team members, but if you're confident in your teammates, you can run anything.
I've run Critical Agility, GPS, Moebius, 4 duals, and a rez. And nobody died. There are options.